whatintheworld Posted July 9, 2013 Posted July 9, 2013 (edited) I am venting here instead of elsewhere right now. I know it's good that I know. I know I wanted to find out that there was someone and who that someone was. I know I got what I wanted. And even after feeling I'd accepted his checking out of the marriage, started in some ways to look forward to a future with out him, it still just hurts down to the core and then a little deeper to see the proof of his emotional affair. Here is what happened: Early on in the relationship - six months in perhaps - we talked about our boundaries with others. I expressed that I didn't feel comfortable with the maintaining of relationships with people who are old flames and with whom we don't have an active platonic friendship. He said this made sense to him, although I do recall some initial indignance at the concept. Eventually (and without a demand from me) he deleted a few exes from his Facebook, who I guess fit the bill. He told me about it later, but I didn't explicitly ask him to do so. Cut to 4 years or so later, I notice that he has added one of his exes back on facebook. facebook lovingly informed me on my sidebar. I felt a little strange about it, but didn't say anything for several days. My husband seemed emotionally more distant and more irritable with me. I didn't necessarily connect the two things at the time, but I continued to feel nagging, so I VERY gently initiated a conversation with him about it. I said I'd noticed and was wondering why that happened, reminding him of our past talk about boundaries. He assured me that she had added him, he thought it was no big deal, and really didn't think much of it. He agreed he should have remembered that boundary. It felt like a nice, respectful conversation. It ended at that. I never told him to delete her; it felt good to talk about my feelings without it becoming an argument and my husband seemed to truly understand. And of course it was only a few weeks later, as the irritability in him increased and he snapped/instigated more petty fights, when after one bad fight that really came out of the smallest thing, he suddenly checked out. And never came back. Obviously there is more to it and I share half the responsibility for the fight. I also suggested we were incompatible. He took that opportunity to agree with me. He then said he didn't know that he wanted the marriage any longer and wanted space. I wrote him a love letter. Then I waited through a weekend trying to be as nice and undemanding and giving as possible, but he still needed more space. I ended up taking our son to stay with grandparents and throughout that week he went from wanting more space to having lost all motivation to work on us, to feeling we were doomed, to saying he no longer loved me, to signing a lease for an apartment. Shocked, devastated, confused as hell on my end. Told by everyone there must be someone else. I came back home to try to salvage the relationship. I had little to no luck. When I stopped trying, I did start to see him looking at me more, wanting to sit beside me, asking me to go out with him and our son. But he never made any moves to change his mind that he wanted out. Didn't want counseling. We went anyway, and the appointment sucked. He was fatalistic and said many saddening, exhausting things and I didn't feel I had a chance to say much. The hour was over and I felt worse than before we went in. Neither of us much wanted to go back. Finally my son brought me a "receipt" from the floor of the room my husband has been sleeping in. On it was an obsessive sounding love note meant for another woman. I cried about it on the phone to my mom and good friend. They encouraged me to find proof. I took a shot in the dark at his facebook password (it was the same as a shared password of ours). It worked. As I was just getting on there, up pops a message from the same ex he had re-added (and re-deleted) last month. As painful as it was, I read it all. And copy/pasted it to a file on my computer. Logged out. And I'm devastated. The correspondence showed that (before I mentioned that I noticed he'd added her and weeks before he checked out) she added him, he said "hi, whats up?" she wrote about three friendly lines back and a "what's new with you?" and he instantly sent her a massive message, bashing our relationship, expressing his total dissatisfaction with it, and ending it with flirtatious compliments to her and attaching a song he apparently wrote for her after the last time he saw her before he met me that he'd never sent her. Then came lots of flirting, followed by pretty much "my wife doesn't want me to talk to you. while i find you hot/a million compliments and flirty statements, I need to focus on saving my marriage" . Which of course inspired more flirting and the whole "Oh, I don't want to be the other woman! Giggle giggle" vibe. He did stop talking to her for a few days at a time but they continued to find excuses to check in over the next week or two, of course leading up to him checking out on me. He then initiated a consistent correspondence as soon as he chose an apartment and planned to sign a lease. Since then they've written almost ten messages a day back and forth. He further bashes me, tells her he wants to divorce me, tells her he wants to see her and even that she would make an "amazing mother". He tells her about his adventures with our son, forgetting to include that I was there. He tells her tidbits we joked about or talked about that day or evening. I once suggested a personality test in hopes of finding a way to communicate to him. I was pleased when he went and took the test and came to tell me his personality type. Less pleased when I saw that the same night he asked her what HER type was and talked about how interesting the test was. I confronted him about it. He denied denied denied until I told him exactly what I saw. Then came irrational yelling, telling me I was "sick" for logging into his facebook. He demanded to see the love note. I told him I was keeping it and he lunged at me to take it. When I refused he said "F*** you" during a time when our son was in the room. He lunged at me again, this time making physical contact and when I told him he could not have the love note back, he balled his fists up at me as if threatening to punch me. He has never, ever been violent. I wasn't threatened. But the person I've loved, who has written me the sweetest love letters and most beautiful love songs for years, the last one being days before he started to talking to the other woman, that person is gone. I don't recognize the person I see and my heart is just broken. Edited July 9, 2013 by whatintheworld
Jstub Posted July 9, 2013 Posted July 9, 2013 I am sorry you are going through this. It looks like your husband is in a fog. When a person is in this state of mind, you will become their enemy. You will be the obstacle in the way of their "happiness". I have been there, so I know what it feels like to not recognize the person in front of you. The person you thought you knew. The best thing you can do is take yourself out of the situation. If you think about it, your husband is not really lovable right now. He is being a jerk. Do not put up with it, or "try to fight for him". Focus on yourself, do things for yourself, stay healthy, stay busy, go out with friends and family. Once you are in a good place and if he comes around, you can see if you want to give him a chance or not. Take control of your life! I know everything I said seems impossible when you are heart broken. Force yourself if you have to. Best of luck to you... sending some cyber hugs your way. Feel better. 1
almond Posted July 9, 2013 Posted July 9, 2013 (edited) Wow, you poor thing. My heart goes out to you Has he ever done anything like this before? Any uncharacteristic mood swings or anything? Sounds like some really odd behaviour. You and your son should definitely not be living with him at the moment. Be sure to take care of yourself. Wait for this to settle a bit, and just try to breathe for the minute. This is so very complicated as there is a child involved. NC is not an option obviously. I would suggest advising your husband that you would like a period of two weeks (or whatever you feel) of only absolutely necessary contact so you can get your head around all of this. Hopefully it will settle - he could snap right out of this. Your husband seems to be going through something at the moment, and I'm not sure what. How was he in the weeks leading up to this? Any changes, either positive or negative? Anything out of the ordinary? EDIT: I just had a quick scan through of your previous threads. Financially reckless, impulsive, uncharacteristic irritability, sudden straying outside the marriage...etc. This cluster of behaviours could indicate something going on with him. Edited July 9, 2013 by almond 1
kamani Posted July 9, 2013 Posted July 9, 2013 From all what OP have written I feel her husband is a long term cheater,liar who didn't care for the feelings of her. I wonder whether he loved her at all. I don't know why OP introduce this as an EA, while it seems much more than that. No woman deserves to be disrespected this way.
almond Posted July 9, 2013 Posted July 9, 2013 From all what OP have written I feel her husband is a long term cheater,liar who didn't care for the feelings of her. I wonder whether he loved her at all. I think that's incredibly cynical, and has absolutely no basis whatsoever.
Jstub Posted July 9, 2013 Posted July 9, 2013 I think that's incredibly cynical, and has absolutely no basis whatsoever. I agree - you cannot always assume that. Don't be stupid and always assume that everyone is an angel, but don't jump to conclusions.
Author whatintheworld Posted July 9, 2013 Author Posted July 9, 2013 Hi everyone. Thank you for helping me to feel heard in my time of frustration and sadness. Obviously I was on a rant about the emotional affair itself, and it was a long post, so I didn't include much back story or explanation about what the marital problems are. My husband and I have had communication issues since the beginning of our relationship, in that we argue easily, and we often have the same few fights (even though they are often about fairly minor things) over and over . It is exhausting for both of us. My husband has acted in a very committed and loving way throughout the course of our relationship up until now. He HAS had some issues dealing with a loss of personal freedom now that he is a husband and dad. I have had some issues feeling heard when I try to communicate. And for the most part, he does not express his wants and needs almost at all, and when he does it's usually in the heat of an argument and then never brought up again. I need to learn to communicate better, to not come across in a way that he reads as critical, to make sure he knows I value him for who he is, and to do my best to show him that I truly have no desire to smother him or spend my every waking moment with him. I need to learn how to fight without getting too frustrated. These are flaws I've brought with me into the relationship, and flaws I want to and am certain I can improve greatly upon. So I'm not a saint, but I do love him deeply, and I think I have really tried to meet any need he's expressed to me in a direct and non-attacking way. He's seemed loyal, devoted, giving, affectionate, thoughtful, very much in love for our entire relationship. He was usually the first to apologize or to admit wrong doing, and he's not afraid of saying he wants to improve himself. I now wonder if those apologies and desires for 'self-improvement' were really indicative of him stuffing his differing opinions and feelings. I don't feel I encouraged him to do it, but now I've heard a litany of reasons that he feels "done" with me, I've heard that he has exhausted his every resource trying to keep us together, etc. It's hard to wrap my mind around, which is why knowing about OW does help. He also told OW (and later told me weeks later) that his therapist recommended he call it quits on the marriage. In all the time he's seen his therapist - he says it has been monthly for four years - he has only once brought home a work sheet about fighting styles or something. He hasn't suggested counseling or anything, so I can only assume that either his therapist didn't say this, or that his therapist suggested many things first and my husband claimed that I refused them.
xpaperxcutx Posted July 9, 2013 Posted July 9, 2013 His current behavior says one thing- you are his enemy. The way he's been acting is symptoms of a man looking to be free and single again- mid-life crisis of the sort. If that's the case let him go. I think trying to tie him down will only make him resent you more, not to mention, you should worry about yourself especially as he is still carrying his EA. If you show you care about him, he will take you for granted and if he does come back, it will only be because you're the back-up plan. Show him you can live without him, take your son and go back to your parents. If he plans on going with this divorce, show him you can stand up on your own. 3
Mrs.S. Posted July 9, 2013 Posted July 9, 2013 Hi everyone. Thank you for helping me to feel heard in my time of frustration and sadness. Obviously I was on a rant about the emotional affair itself, and it was a long post, so I didn't include much back story or explanation about what the marital problems are. My husband and I have had communication issues since the beginning of our relationship, in that we argue easily, and we often have the same few fights (even though they are often about fairly minor things) over and over . It is exhausting for both of us. My husband has acted in a very committed and loving way throughout the course of our relationship up until now. He HAS had some issues dealing with a loss of personal freedom now that he is a husband and dad. I have had some issues feeling heard when I try to communicate. And for the most part, he does not express his wants and needs almost at all, and when he does it's usually in the heat of an argument and then never brought up again. I need to learn to communicate better, to not come across in a way that he reads as critical, to make sure he knows I value him for who he is, and to do my best to show him that I truly have no desire to smother him or spend my every waking moment with him. I need to learn how to fight without getting too frustrated. These are flaws I've brought with me into the relationship, and flaws I want to and am certain I can improve greatly upon. So I'm not a saint, but I do love him deeply, and I think I have really tried to meet any need he's expressed to me in a direct and non-attacking way. He's seemed loyal, devoted, giving, affectionate, thoughtful, very much in love for our entire relationship. He was usually the first to apologize or to admit wrong doing, and he's not afraid of saying he wants to improve himself. I now wonder if those apologies and desires for 'self-improvement' were really indicative of him stuffing his differing opinions and feelings. I don't feel I encouraged him to do it, but now I've heard a litany of reasons that he feels "done" with me, I've heard that he has exhausted his every resource trying to keep us together, etc. It's hard to wrap my mind around, which is why knowing about OW does help. He also told OW (and later told me weeks later) that his therapist recommended he call it quits on the marriage. In all the time he's seen his therapist - he says it has been monthly for four years - he has only once brought home a work sheet about fighting styles or something. He hasn't suggested counseling or anything, so I can only assume that either his therapist didn't say this, or that his therapist suggested many things first and my husband claimed that I refused them. I'm so sorry that you're going through this. I don't really have any good advice to give you, mainly because I'm going through an eerily similar thing with my husband right now. And I've had difficulties managing my emotions and ability to cope with it in the best manner. I'm hoping we've finally turned a small corner into seeing if we can make it work. But over the past couple of months I've been demonized, lied to, ignored, insulted, yelled at, etc. and felt like I no longer knew the person who was once the most devoted, loyal and loving man I could imagine. Even the things you're taking accountability for in your marriage are very similar to the role I've played in my own marriage issues. I'm going to follow your thread and send you the best of wishes every day. I've never known hurt like this and I hate that someone else does, too. Thinking of you!! 1
Author whatintheworld Posted July 10, 2013 Author Posted July 10, 2013 Thank you. I am in the process of getting my own apartment. I am signing a lease of my own this week for the first of August. That is the same day that he is also moving out. Unfortunately my family is out of state and we can't really stay there for the time in between. There is much to be done including packing up my life and further separating all of our accounts around town. My husband has been the puppet master behind each step separating us in such a way that he can turn around and say that I initiated it. He still says that he told me when this fight-turned-total-destruction started that he did NOT want a divorce, just a little space, but that I forced him to decide, for better or worse. I didn't; I just asked for parameters and some communication about why he felt that way. Then he told me that I was the one who suggested he get the lease, when in reality, I told him that maybe he should move out of the home IN THE TIME BEFORE MARRIAGE COUNSELING - like staying at a friend's house - I only suggested that because he said he was unwilling to even think about working on things or being a family until after we got to counseling. Now of course that the EA is revealed, he tells me that I pushed him to do it and he was already feeling this way when it happened. That is his way of excusing himself from "really" cheating. He says he felt it was a non-marriage already. Every day we spent time together and talked leading up to it and he never communicated to me that he felt that way, ever. So I am hesitant to begin divorce proceedings. I feel it would be best for that to come from him, both because I don't want to pay for it with my portion of our money, and because I think he needs to make the choice on his own and not have an excuse to prove that it was me who wanted it. I told him that he needed to move out of the house now if he can't control himself from continuing the correspondence right now. I told him that once he's moved out he can do whatever he wants. He agreed to this and said he at least wanted to stay the week and if he felt too compelled to talk to her, he would tell me and leave. So that is something, but I of course don't trust AT ALL that he is now keeping or will keep that promise. We are going back to marriage counseling on Friday with this new information in the mix. He does seem to be feeling more confused now that the dust has settled on this discovery. He flails between being cold and self-justifying, and tears and wanting to communicate about where the relationship went wrong. He avoids dwelling more than 30 seconds on anything about this EA and claims there is really "nothing much" going on emotionally with him for her. When I told him he was obsessing (telling her he thinks about her all day, has been rereading all her old texts and messages, and the love notes he sat around writing about how much he craves her and cant stop thinking about phone calls that he made to her five years ago) over her, he said "I'm obsessing a lot less than you are thinking about it now". Jerk.
zoobadger Posted July 10, 2013 Posted July 10, 2013 (edited) Denying something that's utterly obvious, even after you've confronted him with physical evidence, is a little scary. And telling the OW she'd make a great "mother" is a lot scary. Your kids have one mother, and she's you. Unless he means having a baby with her.... How old are the kids? Edited July 10, 2013 by zoobadger 1
Author whatintheworld Posted July 10, 2013 Author Posted July 10, 2013 We have one son, who turned three a few months ago. My husband has always been a great, loving, devoted dad. I believe he was feeling out the OW for whether she was interested in having children. I am approaching 30, but my husband and the OW are in their late 30s. It certainly felt like he wanted a sense that she would still be interested to be with him since he's had a child. And, as painful as it is, it does seem true that he is fantasizing about having a family unit with her including our son. He also has expressed desire for more children to me, not even so far in the past.
Author whatintheworld Posted July 10, 2013 Author Posted July 10, 2013 I am a fool because my ex husband is a good talker with a history. He is good at coming across as self-aware and certain of what is healthy, even when he talks himself into circles to justify something that should be easy to understand as not healthy. We had, in earlier years of our relationship, talked at length about the learning experiences in our previous relationships and how we've grown and how those experiences taught us what we want now and how to be better people. While I was in an intense and unstable relationship prior to meeting my husband (learning that a certain level of intensity and instability actually go hand in hand, and having to let go of my drive to find "passion" over stability) , my husband was in a ten year relationship with a very passive but wonderful woman. The two of them NEVER fought, and three times within the course of those ten years, he developed infatuations for other women and left her to pursue them. When the first two (probably emotional affairs!) didn't work out, she took him back. The third time he did it, they remained separated and she pretty much went NC permanently, despite his later attempts to reach out to her and reconnect/catch up. We talked about that, I hurt at the time for her, but he truly did a great job of acknowledging his faults, and explaining how things were so very different with me. I believed and trusted him. In hindsight, I feel pretty foolish.
xpaperxcutx Posted July 10, 2013 Posted July 10, 2013 Above all else, I wish you the best and hope you stay strong. Anytime I hear about a Wandering spouse or Cheating husband, I think back to this movie starring Roseanne Barr called " She-DeviL", which depicted a betrayed spouse getting revenge on her exhusband. Don't go down that route of revenge ( although you may have all the right), but a lesson you can take away from this is that when someone hurt you, karma comes back to bite them. Let him have his EA but his resolve to divorce is already withering given he's now coming to terms with the implications. Take your son and move out, and never ever forget your own needs. Take care of yourself, your body and your health. The best thing that can happen is that he realizes too late what he has had. 1
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