soccerrprp Posted July 9, 2013 Posted July 9, 2013 As I said, men who most women find high quality are not very eager to commit and when they do want to commit, they are extremely picky about it. I am a little offended by this. I consider myself "high quality" whatever that means. I want to commit. Am I extremely picky? Perhaps. I know what it is that I want and need and I go after it. Sometimes it doesn't work as planned, not b/c I was too picky and I didn't do my part, but equally as relevant, b/c she didn't see the good thing that was right in front of her. Because SHE was "extremely picky" or non-committal. [No sob story to tell ] I just wanted clarity so as not to read your observation as being a male problem of commitment ONLY. I'm certain you didn't mean it to be. ` 1
Eternal Sunshine Posted July 9, 2013 Posted July 9, 2013 Why do you think these men didn't want a commitment with you specifically? Because they weren't into me or highly interested in me. Combination of my looks in personality didn't do it for them. They were meh about me, sort of like I am with guys I had low interest in Do you believe their "agenda" and "options" in all cases is what kept them uninterested in a relationship? Mostly yes. He either had options that he saw as more desirable or knew he could get them because he had in the past. Some were players/ not commitment ready in general. Is there any reason you can imagine that these men wouldn't to commit to you, other than the above? In my case I believe that it's more my personality than looks, I am not confident enough or outgoing enough. Also, I was a late bloomer, not really interested in men when high quality men were available. I preferred to study :/ As you get older, the pickings are very slim. And the very last question...would you consider yourself emotional available and ready for a commitment? OK honestly just reading this question made me feel . I have problems with marriage for example but I think I would if the right man came along. 5
iris219 Posted July 9, 2013 Posted July 9, 2013 Yes and I'm arguing that we often don't want what's available to us because we don't find them quality according to whatever standard we have. As I said, men who most women find high quality are not very eager to commit and when they do want to commit, they are extremely picky about it. I wonder how much of a role demographics have to play? Where I live, the trend of not wanting to commit among what would be considered low quality men (i.e. unattractive alcoholics who barley work) is common. The "high quality" men are generally already committed. 2
Southern Cal Dude Posted July 9, 2013 Posted July 9, 2013 I know that this thread is causing a lot of these "nice guys" here to point fingers. But I challenge them, and men in general - when you have a daughter it is your responsibility to love them in a way that will help cultivate a healthy attitude toward men in her life going forward. Sadly, fathers like mine didn't seem to think that was important. So who really is at fault here? You're both at fault. Your father for obvious reasons, but you as well for poor choices. At some point, you have to stop blaming your lack of a father figure and take responsibility for your actions. My mom's best friend grew up with an alcoholic father. She's made many poor relationship choices. I feel bad for what she went through and I don't wish that on anyone. But her poor choices are still her fault. At some point, you have to stop blaming Daddy and take blame for poor choices.
grkBoy Posted July 9, 2013 Posted July 9, 2013 Now that my personal issues are solved (and it couldn't be done with any man, of course, so I'm glad I pretty much stayed single during the course of figuring it out), I'm really no drama and at peace with myself. I finally, after 38 years, feel complete and whole with myself and don't need anything external from a guy to make me feel good. That sounded like my MGTOW stint. I learned to love myself as a person while alone and removed all the pressure of dating/love/relationships off my back. Also took time to grow and improve as a person. I hope the right guy finds you now. 2
Drseussgrrl Posted July 9, 2013 Posted July 9, 2013 You're both at fault. Your father for obvious reasons, but you as well for poor choices. At some point, you have to stop blaming your lack of a father figure and take responsibility for your actions. My mom's best friend grew up with an alcoholic father. She's made many poor relationship choices. I feel bad for what she went through and I don't wish that on anyone. But her poor choices are still her fault. At some point, you have to stop blaming Daddy and take blame for poor choices. Yep - already am. Costing me a pretty penny in therapy too. Thanks pops! 1
Author Star Gazer Posted July 9, 2013 Author Posted July 9, 2013 If you are anything like me, you probably have a bit of commitment phobia and are afraid of how a man can limit your freedom and experiences. That is not exactly the same as being emotionally unavailable, as you can still fall hard for men who are available to you but the idea of "forever" and committing scares you. In any case, I think when mutual love and high interest happens, when you find a real catch who is truly interested in you, not many of us women are going to pass it up for the sake of game playing. CP and EU are inextricably linked. 2
Author Star Gazer Posted July 9, 2013 Author Posted July 9, 2013 Yes and I'm arguing that we often don't want what's available to us because we don't find them quality according to whatever standard we have. As I said, men who most women find high quality are not very eager to commit and when they do want to commit, they are extremely picky about it. That's really not the subject of the discussion, now is it? If you've read the entire thread, you'd understand why. You're really derailing it, IMO. You're discounting a lot of hard work (in and out of therapy) done by several posters with your armchair psychology. I'm also not surprised you're doing this in my thread. I really wish you'd just back off sometimes.
BluEyeL Posted July 9, 2013 Posted July 9, 2013 Because they weren't into me or highly interested in me. Combination of my looks in personality didn't do it for them. In my case I believe that it's more my personality than looks, I am not confident enough or outgoing enough. I don't think your looks really factor into men not wanting commitment with you. Looks are what attracted them in the first place. The next step is commitment and I don't think wanting commitment with you has much to do with looks anymore. Maybe something in your behavior. Things like too emotional, or "crazy" are what I hear from men. So if you are not confident, how does that translate into behavior?
Author Star Gazer Posted July 9, 2013 Author Posted July 9, 2013 What I meant is that 'people don't necessarily want what is available to them precisely because they are available' It is your perception that high quality men are not keen to commit. This. The same good, decent man, if unavailable, seems high quality to an EU woman. Make him available, and the EU woman loses interest. He's no longer someone she has to win over, to prove herself to herself. Therefore, he's not high quality.
Author Star Gazer Posted July 9, 2013 Author Posted July 9, 2013 BTW excellent thread Star I'm hoping it can remain on EU and not all these side issues popping up.
mesmerized Posted July 9, 2013 Posted July 9, 2013 CP and EU are inextricably linked. They can be but they don't have to be. I was very much in love with a guy I was dating who loved me back yet I had my questions about long term commitment. All the fears were based on reason too. Also, marriage, monogamy and very long term commitment is not the best option for a lot of people, if they are being realistic that is.
mesmerized Posted July 9, 2013 Posted July 9, 2013 That's really not the subject of the discussion, now is it? If you've read the entire thread, you'd understand why. You're really derailing it, IMO. You're discounting a lot of hard work (in and out of therapy) done by several posters with your armchair psychology. I'm also not surprised you're doing this in my thread. I really wish you'd just back off sometimes. I didn't agree with you and offered a different perspective that could explain some supposedly EU cases and you don't like it? How surprising! What I said is very much related to the thread btw. 1
clia Posted July 9, 2013 Posted July 9, 2013 This is a really interesting thread. It never occurred to me before, but I have characteristics of both CP and EU. Although I've never really been a chaser (except for a few instances in my 20s), I primarily go for men who travel a lot in their jobs and/or have very full lives outside of me. I prefer men who aren't always sitting around right in my face wanting me to entertain them. My ideal relationship is seeing a guy once or twice a week. I always attributed my preference to my introverted personality and preference for being alone, but maybe there is more to it than that. Hmm.... 2
Author Star Gazer Posted July 9, 2013 Author Posted July 9, 2013 They can be but they don't have to be. I was very much in love with a guy I was dating who loved me back yet I had my questions about long term commitment. All the fears were based on reason too. You don't understand what it means to be CP or EU then. They are almost one and the same, and certainly inextricably linked. Merely being uncertain about commitment doesn't make one CP or EU. It's a LOT more complicated and deep than that. Further, you can be in love and be loved back and still be EU and CP. I was both with Skiman, and he loved me very much until the end. One can be married, and be CP and EU in the sense that they aren't really committed and available within the marriage (they will be absent in some way). So yeah, you're not understanding what the terms really mean. They're not transient and fleeting. They're hardcore and never really go away; they're just managed.
Treasa Posted July 9, 2013 Posted July 9, 2013 I see so much of myself in a lot of these posts. My father left when I was 2, we are estranged. My stepfather, in turn, was a disciplinarian who rarely offered encouragement or emotional support. As a result, for me, love was always something I had to "earn" from a man. Never given freely and always out of reach. I have worked on this extensively in therapy but in the past, I have found myself to be drawn to men who were also out of reach and unavailable in some way. I know that this thread is causing a lot of these "nice guys" here to point fingers. But I challenge them, and men in general - when you have a daughter it is your responsibility to love them in a way that will help cultivate a healthy attitude toward men in her life going forward. Sadly, fathers like mine didn't seem to think that was important. So who really is at fault here? My opinion is that looking for fault is not helpful. My mom divorced my father when I was two. She had to. He was abusing drugs, abusing us, etc. It was either that or stay, and I was her baby, and she'd rather sacrifice everything (which she did) than have me exposed to that. However, late last year I finally realized that I don't have to be a victim. I don't have to lug around emotional baggage. When I finally decided to throw it away and just be happy as I am and as my life is, and decided to just be positive, and went through a lot of internal thinking, reading books, etc., I realized that there's nothing lacking in me that's present in children who have two normal parents. I had to make the choice to throw away that baggage. Even though my father molested me, I don't consider myself a victim or a survivor. Merely someone who was molested when she was young, but now is past it. The decision to be happy rests completely within each one of us. 7
Teufelhunden Posted July 9, 2013 Posted July 9, 2013 Had an gf in college that fit this profile -- we were together for about 6 months which was probably about 3 months longer than she would have preferred. She had a VERY magnetic personality and was manipulatively flirtatious. Her M.O. was making shy nerdy science guys her conquests. Of course, shooting fish in a barrel is way more challenging, so I don't know what she got out of it. Is she reformed? I assume she is. We don't stay in touch, but I know she is a science professor at a liberal arts college and she's married with a little girl. Sounds more stable to me. I had one almost exactly like this in high school. I chased her, she didn't want me. I quit, she chased me. We got together, she got bored. I left her, she wanted me again. Eleven years later she is married with kids. She called me out of the blue about a year ago to ask if she were to divorce her husband if there would be a chance for us to get together. Obviously told her no. Some chasers never seem to reform no matter how much time passes.
charlietheginger Posted July 9, 2013 Posted July 9, 2013 I had one almost exactly like this in high school. I chased her, she didn't want me. I quit, she chased me. We got together, she got bored. I left her, she wanted me again. Eleven years later she is married with kids. She called me out of the blue about a year ago to ask if she were to divorce her husband if there would be a chance for us to get together. Obviously told her no. Some chasers never seem to reform no matter how much time passes. You told her no chance to get back together after 11yrs. This Means the chase is on !..... Expect to run into her at a gas station or grocery store.....
worldgonewrong Posted July 9, 2013 Posted July 9, 2013 Well, they're not "coping mechanisms." Rather, they're repeating what they know. For example: A woman whose father was physically present but emotionally absent will pick a similar partner, for two reasons. One, it's what she knows, it's her model. Second, and more importantly, she hopes to "fix" her childhood hurts through her new partner. If she can somehow make this new physically present man emotionally present as well, she'll have repaired/fixed her childhood hurts. However, that never happens, she's never able to make the man love her and be there for her, so she just ends up with the reinforced belief that she is not worthy of a man who will be emotionally present for her. If you are repeatedly encountering EU women with abandonment issues, that says more about you than them, Ninja. They're repeating their patterns by choosing you. You might want to think about that for yourself; turn the focus inward, instead of on them. Conversely, the EU woman might constantly burn bridges because she would rather dump before getting dumped.
Author Star Gazer Posted July 9, 2013 Author Posted July 9, 2013 Conversely, the EU woman might constantly burn bridges because she would rather dump before getting dumped. Oh, for sure!!! They can't leave you if you leave them first. Another thing I've recognized is unnecessary fault finding and nitpicking of flaws in a partner (silently). If you find them grossly imperfect, you're protecting yourself if/when they bail, because meh, you didn't really want them anyway. And then there's suddenly wanting someone you didn't want in the first place because they've made it known they don't want you (or mode aptly, want someone else). These are all behaviors I engaged in before the blindfold was taken off. 2
Shepp Posted July 9, 2013 Posted July 9, 2013 My friends like that - shes stunning, charismatic, a right flirt when she wants to be. She literally picks a guy for the night, chases him (doesn't take much work on her part, guys are usually all over her anyway) then always gets bored in the morning - if not during the night, shes told me her motto with these guys is "have sex then move to your side of the bed and don't touch me [her]". Its my door that shes at for everything else - me that she opens up to, me that pick up the pieces when shes hurting, me that she spends her day with, my football games she comes and watches in the pouring rain, its my birthday she organised a surprise party for...........and weirder than all that, considering her "motto", when she stays at mine I've never shared a bed with girl that sleeps more cuddled up to me that she does. She tells me how those guys mean 'nothing' and how much she loves me but she wont date me cause 'she breaks everything she touches' and 'doesn't trust herself not to screw up and hence lose me' meaning that she dosent trust herself to give up her current lifestyle! I don't get it - I don't get what kinda kick or thrill that the 'chase' or whatever it is gives her that she cant give it up. But then we come from different backgrounds - ive got a big, solid family and shes got no one, her mum died when she was 13 and her dad fell apart, became depressed and left her to her own devices and now hes set up camp with his new family and shes left out of the picture - I guess I was the first person to genuinely be there for her since she was 13 so whether or not that's got something to do with it, im the qualified to tell you, but I do think there was always a slight feeling on her part that she wasn't enough for her dad. Still she's pregnant now so we'll see - if you strip away all the bull**** shes a great person - it could be her saving grace!
mesmerized Posted July 9, 2013 Posted July 9, 2013 I don't think ES minded my comment, she's a smart grown up adult who can decide for herself. And no I never called you EU, I don't really know much about you or your life. As for myself, I just think I know myself very well. I have my own issues and certainly not perfect but being EU is not one I worry about. 1
Eternal Sunshine Posted July 9, 2013 Posted July 9, 2013 I am trying to figure myself out and consider both sides of the argument. I am sure that I have issues that make me CP/EU to some degree. I also know with some men, there simply isn't enough both sided chemistry/connection even without any issues. The last guy I dated and broke up with (I posted about him) was very open and desiring of commitment. He seemed to genuinely like me. For some reason, in my mind he was immediately put into "low quality" category. On our last date, I asked him directly about his relationship history. He had 3 relationships that lasted over 2 years and many that lasted 6-12 months (he was 33). So I guess he wasn't short of options? I know that I have definitely felt stronger feelings of sparks/attraction if a man is unavailable to some degree and I had to chase him. I even remember my cousin that was studying psychology commenting on it few years back. I was confiding to her about some guy. I was highly interested then lost interest when he seemed to reciprocate. She said to me "We all want what we can't have, it's human nature. But with you, it's much more pronounced, to the degree that I think is unhealthy. I am worried that you won't be able to have a healthy relationship until you address this". I kind of dismissed her at the time. 1
Eternal Sunshine Posted July 9, 2013 Posted July 9, 2013 Oh, for sure!!! They can't leave you if you leave them first. Another thing I've recognized is unnecessary fault finding and nitpicking of flaws in a partner (silently). If you find them grossly imperfect, you're protecting yourself if/when they bail, because meh, you didn't really want them anyway. And then there's suddenly wanting someone you didn't want in the first place because they've made it known they don't want you (or mode aptly, want someone else). These are all behaviors I engaged in before the blindfold was taken off. Yep, I do all that It's especially bad when I catch myself trying to win over someone that I have already rejected, just because he seems to be into someone else.
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