grkBoy Posted July 9, 2013 Posted July 9, 2013 I usually tell guys, especially "nice guys", to not deal with what I call "bad boy chasers". You know, the women who crave excitement, adventure, fantasy, etc to such a degree that they go from one emotionally unavailable guy to the next (while complaining how there's no "good men" out there). I tell these guys not to mess with those women because it's a losing path. She most likely won't want the guy...ever. So why bother? Guys make the same "thrill seeker" mistake too. Lord knows I'd pursue many good looking women with baggage, probably because they made me feel needed...despite most of them only seeking someone to make them feel better "for now", in which they'll then vanish and end up with another emotionally unavailable guy. Now...how to "cure" emotional unavailability? You can't. Forget the fantasy of "converting" or "winning" the emotionally unavailable guy or girl. Just move on. Only person who can cure that is the person. Don't waste your time trying to change or "convert" someone.
BluEyeL Posted July 9, 2013 Posted July 9, 2013 Haven't read all 8 pages, but I definitely do not identify with the OP. I do not like to chase, never did. I do not like the thrill of the chase. What I enjoy most, at 41, is peace and quiet. I feel I fought enough all my life, mostly to be stable financially, through being successful as an immigrant, to have the energy and desire to chase EU men. I think one's outlook is shaped by childhood experiences, but also young adulthood experiences. Personally, I grew up in a communist country, where my parents always pushed me to excel academically, and always the message was that I am to succeed exclusively through my personal efforts, not through looks or men. Never heard that girls are not good at math for example, i was the best at it in high school. Later, my first husband and only boyfriend/man, who I met when I was 19, was not very alpha. He always encouraged me to work harder and pushed me to advance my career. He, in fact, didn't trust himself, and wanted to succeed through me. He wasn't taking any initiatives, so we would have either died of hunger, for lack of a better term, or I had to start pushing forward myself. Finally I achieved success, and he left after 20 yrs, because there was nothing else for him to gain from me. So anyway, all these experiences shaped me into who I am now, and I'm grateful to him for that. Had I had a stronger man in my life, maybe I'd turn out differently. I'm not interested in anyone who is emotionally unavailable and don't feel I need validation from anyone, in any area, I'd like someone who doesn't give me lots trouble and anxiety. So, no chasing for me, my theory is, if the Universe wants me to have this man, it means it's right, if not, life will still go on and I'm just fine. 1
Eternal Sunshine Posted July 9, 2013 Posted July 9, 2013 I usually tell guys, especially "nice guys", to not deal with what I call "bad boy chasers". You know, the women who crave excitement, adventure, fantasy, etc to such a degree that they go from one emotionally unavailable guy to the next (while complaining how there's no "good men" out there). I tell these guys not to mess with those women because it's a losing path. She most likely won't want the guy...ever. So why bother? Guys make the same "thrill seeker" mistake too. Lord knows I'd pursue many good looking women with baggage, probably because they made me feel needed...despite most of them only seeking someone to make them feel better "for now", in which they'll then vanish and end up with another emotionally unavailable guy. Now...how to "cure" emotional unavailability? You can't. Forget the fantasy of "converting" or "winning" the emotionally unavailable guy or girl. Just move on. Only person who can cure that is the person. Don't waste your time trying to change or "convert" someone. I think that's fair point. But a lot of women in this thread have a lot of love to give and we are working on our issues. So don't dismiss us completely 4
grkBoy Posted July 9, 2013 Posted July 9, 2013 I think that's fair point. But a lot of women in this thread have a lot of love to give and we are working on our issues. So don't dismiss us completely Not completely...just until the issues are solved. Trust me, I gave many women with issues a shot in the past, and ended up burned. If I was single now I'd be more reluctant and more cautious. 1
Treasa Posted July 9, 2013 Posted July 9, 2013 Now that my personal issues are solved (and it couldn't be done with any man, of course, so I'm glad I pretty much stayed single during the course of figuring it out), I'm really no drama and at peace with myself. I finally, after 38 years, feel complete and whole with myself and don't need anything external from a guy to make me feel good. I sort of do have someone, but I still never felt complete until around eight or so months ago when I hit absolute rock bottom. 5
mesmerized Posted July 9, 2013 Posted July 9, 2013 I'll be honest. I think a lot of this eu discussion is just justification of why you haven't been successful in dating. When I was younger I used to try to make men fall for me and as soon as they were into me I'd abort. However, I was never truly interested in those men in the first place. Sometimes you really like a guy and he doesn't happen to feel the same. Are you EU if you go after who you really like instead of choosing among men you don't really want? No, not at all. Sucks when he doesn't feel the same and this happens in dating all the time. By telling yourself its your problem for being EU, you are just trying to distract yourself from the hurtful fact that the men you are into are not into you! 4
Emilia Posted July 9, 2013 Posted July 9, 2013 This thread has been absolutely fascinating for perspectives. 3
Eternal Sunshine Posted July 9, 2013 Posted July 9, 2013 I'll be honest. I think a lot of this eu discussion is just justification of why you haven't been successful in dating. When I was younger I used to try to make men fall for me and as soon as they were into me I'd abort. However, I was never truly interested in those men in the first place. Sometimes you really like a guy and he doesn't happen to feel the same. Are you EU if you go after who you really like instead of choosing among men you don't really want? No, not at all. Sucks when he doesn't feel the same and this happens in dating all the time. By telling yourself its your problem for being EU, you are just trying to distract yourself from the hurtful fact that the men you are into are not into you! Yep, this is what I also wonder about. I am never 100% sure if it's this or if it's EU thing. 2
mesmerized Posted July 9, 2013 Posted July 9, 2013 Yep, this is what I also wonder about. I am never 100% sure if it's this or if it's EU thing. If you are anything like me, you probably have a bit of commitment phobia and are afraid of how a man can limit your freedom and experiences. That is not exactly the same as being emotionally unavailable, as you can still fall hard for men who are available to you but the idea of "forever" and committing scares you. In any case, I think when mutual love and high interest happens, when you find a real catch who is truly interested in you, not many of us women are going to pass it up for the sake of game playing. 3
Treasa Posted July 9, 2013 Posted July 9, 2013 For me, I really was lacking things that only I could give to myself. It took a quite a lot of work, plus work ongoing, to change the way I think. I am so much more positive and relaxed than I used to. I used to experience frequent panic attacks, and I haven't had one in a couple of years, despite being in situations where I'd normally have huge panic attacks. No man could fix what was broken, nor make me truly happy. I had to figure out how to do that for myself. 1
Eternal Sunshine Posted July 9, 2013 Posted July 9, 2013 If you are anything like me, you probably have a bit of commitment phobia and are afraid of how a man can limit your freedom and experiences. That is not exactly the same as being emotionally unavailable, as you can still fall hard for men who are available to you but the idea of "forever" and committing scares you. In any case, I think when mutual love and high interest happens, when you find a real catch who is truly interested in you, not many of us women are going to pass it up for the sake of game playing. I can't remember once that a man that I had high interest in wanted to commit. Commitment was always really scary with men I was meh about - but they are the ones that want to commit unfortunately. 2
mesmerized Posted July 9, 2013 Posted July 9, 2013 I can't remember once that a man that I had high interest in wanted to commit. Commitment was always really scary with men I was meh about - but they are the ones that want to commit unfortunately. Bingo! This problem is extremely common nowadays. The less desirable a man is, the more likely he is to want to lock down one woman and commit. So a lot of us women end up with options we don't really want. It sucks but it's become the reality of dating nowadays. 4
Emilia Posted July 9, 2013 Posted July 9, 2013 Bingo! This problem is extremely common nowadays. The less desirable a man is, the more likely he is to want to lock down one woman and commit. So a lot of us women end up with options we don't really want. It sucks but it's become the reality of dating nowadays. I've never thought of it this way. Though 'undesirable' is in the eye of the beholder, no? I don't mean something obvious as the 400lbs guy but the subject of this thread: that people don't necessarily want what is available to them.
Drseussgrrl Posted July 9, 2013 Posted July 9, 2013 I see so much of myself in a lot of these posts. My father left when I was 2, we are estranged. My stepfather, in turn, was a disciplinarian who rarely offered encouragement or emotional support. As a result, for me, love was always something I had to "earn" from a man. Never given freely and always out of reach. I have worked on this extensively in therapy but in the past, I have found myself to be drawn to men who were also out of reach and unavailable in some way. I know that this thread is causing a lot of these "nice guys" here to point fingers. But I challenge them, and men in general - when you have a daughter it is your responsibility to love them in a way that will help cultivate a healthy attitude toward men in her life going forward. Sadly, fathers like mine didn't seem to think that was important. So who really is at fault here? 4
Emilia Posted July 9, 2013 Posted July 9, 2013 I know that this thread is causing a lot of these "nice guys" here to point fingers. But I challenge them, and men in general - when you have a daughter it is your responsibility to love them in a way that will help cultivate a healthy attitude toward men in her life going forward. Sadly, fathers like mine didn't seem to think that was important. So who really is at fault here? I made this point before but I never got a response 2
Ninjainpajamas Posted July 9, 2013 Posted July 9, 2013 I'll be honest. I think a lot of this eu discussion is just justification of why you haven't been successful in dating. Not necessarily, emotional unavailability can be a result of many things; - Being previously hurt by someone close to you, romantic or not - Insecurity with whether you feel deserving/worthy of it - Fear of being abandonment or losing someone you love, similar to the paranoia of someone dying - Consistent or recent disappointment in romantic relationships, resulting in a fear of unrequited love - Fear of commitment and true intimacy/vulnerability - Depression/sexual trauma Now what I'm referring to and speaking about more precisely is the combination of several of those elements into more-or-less to the overall "profile" for lack of a better term. The reason many people have issues "profiling" more or less or defining much of the overall meaning to these separate elements, such as abandonment, emotional unavailability, insecurity, low self-esteem etc is that they have difficulty associating and interpreting what belongs where, and if Y and Z doesn't always add up and is not 100 percent consistent then obviously there is something wrong with the "formula". Once you acknowledge and are able to correctly distinguish and interpret different elements for what they are and more importantly how they come together, then you can create a profile of what issues that person ultimately struggles with...it's not about the individual elements alone, then trying to add and calculate this into a formula that you can't make any sense of so you dismiss it with a general observation of "this doesn't make any sense or add up to me" and everyone is an individual unique little butterfly, and therefore everything is such mystery (this is not direct towards you, this is a general statement) People aren't as much objectively assessing and calculating these factors and taking them into consideration as a whole, they are often try to dissociate themselves from being "profiled" or labeled and often defending a subject matter not based on the context of relevant information at hand but the emotional connection and relativity that have in fear of being associated with such "generalizations". 2
mesmerized Posted July 9, 2013 Posted July 9, 2013 I've never thought of it this way. Though 'undesirable' is in the eye of the beholder, no? I don't mean something obvious as the 400lbs guy but the subject of this thread: that people don't necessarily want what is available to them. Yes and I'm arguing that we often don't want what's available to us because we don't find them quality according to whatever standard we have. As I said, men who most women find high quality are not very eager to commit and when they do want to commit, they are extremely picky about it. 1
Emilia Posted July 9, 2013 Posted July 9, 2013 Yes and I'm arguing that we often don't want what's available to us because we don't find them quality according to whatever standard we have. As I said, men who most women find high quality are not very eager to commit and when they do want to commit, they are extremely picky about it. I posted my post before I finished my point and I couldn't go back to edit it. What I meant is that 'people don't necessarily want what is available to them precisely because they are available' It is your perception that high quality men are not keen to commit. 2
Weezy1973 Posted July 9, 2013 Posted July 9, 2013 Bingo! This problem is extremely common nowadays. The less desirable a man is, the more likely he is to want to lock down one woman and commit. So a lot of us women end up with options we don't really want. It sucks but it's become the reality of dating nowadays. Obviously wrong. Remember that the VAST majority of adults are in relationships. The reality of dating is that most people date successfully and find long term partners. The reality of your dating life is that you're attracted to men that don't want to commit (i.e. EU).
Ninjainpajamas Posted July 9, 2013 Posted July 9, 2013 I can't remember once that a man that I had high interest in wanted to commit. Commitment was always really scary with men I was meh about - but they are the ones that want to commit unfortunately. Bingo! This problem is extremely common nowadays. The less desirable a man is, the more likely he is to want to lock down one woman and commit. So a lot of us women end up with options we don't really want. It sucks but it's become the reality of dating nowadays. I have a question for you guys, including Dr.suessgirl... Why do YOU think the men you desire to "commit" to...supposedly, because we can't assume you'd really want a commitment from them if they were more "available" for a relationship.... Why do you think these men didn't want a commitment with you specifically? Do you believe their "agenda" and "options" in all cases is what kept them uninterested in a relationship? Is there any reason you can imagine that these men wouldn't to commit to you, other than the above? And the very last question...would you consider yourself emotional available and ready for a commitment? 1
Drseussgrrl Posted July 9, 2013 Posted July 9, 2013 No, alot of love they want to recieve maybe. You're not really contributing anything meaningful to this thread with your fly-by criticisms and insults. There is a lot of soul-searching and reflection going on here. A damn shame you can't recognize it. 7
ThaWholigan Posted July 9, 2013 Posted July 9, 2013 I wonder how much of a role demographics have to play?
mesmerized Posted July 9, 2013 Posted July 9, 2013 I posted my post before I finished my point and I couldn't go back to edit it. What I meant is that 'people don't necessarily want what is available to them precisely because they are available' It is your perception that high quality men are not keen to commit. I know it can be seen that way for some people. However, I believe I'm self aware enough to know the difference. I tend to be very honest with myself and my feelings and I know that's not the case for me. I really don't know if you can argue men with options not being as keen to commit as men without options. I think this has been known for long! I have a question for you guys, including Dr.suessgirl... Why do YOU think the men you desire to "commit" to...supposedly, because we can't assume you'd really want a commitment from them if they were more "available" for a relationship.... Why do you think these men didn't want a commitment with you specifically? Do you believe their "agenda" and "options" in all cases is what kept them uninterested in a relationship? Is there any reason you can imagine that these men wouldn't to commit to you, other than the above? And the very last question...would you consider yourself emotional available and ready for a commitment? Who knows, it could be multiple reasons. In some cases them wanting to play the field and in some cases me not being good enough in their eyes. I think I'm emotionally available once I really like and trust a guy, I'd love to love and nurture...as for commitment, I have my issues with a "forever" type commitment. But I think the right guy can help me get over my fears.
Emilia Posted July 9, 2013 Posted July 9, 2013 I really don't know if you can argue men with options not being as keen to commit as men without options. I think this has been known for long! I'm arguing about your definition and perception of what high quality men are.
Drseussgrrl Posted July 9, 2013 Posted July 9, 2013 I have a question for you guys, including Dr.suessgirl... Why do YOU think the men you desire to "commit" to...supposedly, because we can't assume you'd really want a commitment from them if they were more "available" for a relationship.... Why do you think these men didn't want a commitment with you specifically? Do you believe their "agenda" and "options" in all cases is what kept them uninterested in a relationship? Is there any reason you can imagine that these men wouldn't to commit to you, other than the above? And the very last question...would you consider yourself emotional available and ready for a commitment? I think it was said earlier - choosing men who were either far away, told me they weren't ready for a relationship, and even last year - a dude who was going through a messy divorce were all men I was drawn to. I KNEW deep down they couldn't commit and yet I found the draw to change their minds in some way undeniable. Just as I've chased a man's love all through my childhood, it's carried over into womanhood. I'm trying to change that pattern. I'm dating someone now who is 100% available and I find myself going through the same destructive thought processes. "He texts too much so he must be needy." "Why does he want to see me every chance he gets?" "Why does he think I'm so amazing? He must not have many options." I recognize that this has nothing to do with him. He's actually great. He cracks me up. He's handsome. Great family. A business he's starting. Everything that I want in a boyfriend - and I WANT A BOYFRIEND. So I'm retraining my thoughts. Hell maybe I just got lucky for once, and I want to roll with it and see where it goes. So yes - I do want to commit. I'm tired of being alone. Mesmerized brought up a good point earlier though. I'm wary of men who want to commit very quickly - whereas I've had other friends who are not and ended up with great husbands. So I'm trying to relax and take this step by step with my therapist. It's been very helpful thus far.
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