"Women who are chasers are thrill seekers."

[Star Gazer]

How do you help/prevent young women from growing through this entire process of inner reflection and preventing adult women from perpetuating the cycle even as adults...even after everything has been brought to light and understood logically speaking.

 

Why would you want to prevent young women from growing?

 

YOU can't help women. If they find help outside themselves, they have to find it with someone they trust who's not intimately tethered to their personal, emotional world - i.e., a well-trained therapist.

[Star Gazer]

I just want to add that despite relating to SG very much, I did not grow up in a single parent household.

 

I think we've come to conclude that one of the worst impacts is the feeling of abandonment. You can feel that whether you have both parents in the household or not.

 

Indeed, you can.

 

However, I don't know any child from a single parent who hasn't struggled through feelings of abandonment, some much more severe than others.

 

I think my abandonment issues are actually fairly minor, all things considered.

[Ninjainpajamas]

Why would you want to prevent young women from growing?

 

YOU can't help women. If they find help outside themselves, they have to find it with someone they trust who's not intimately tethered to their personal, emotional world - i.e., a well-trained therapist.

 

I didn't mean prevent from growing, that was a mistake there...the point would be to prevent the coping mechanisms from developing in the first place that are basically disguising the real problems and issues underneath...and then taking years to realize and understand that their issues were affecting their choices in their lives.

[todreaminblue]

IMO, the worst effects of single parenthood on a child are not less money or the stigma; they are the emotional emptiness, isolation, feelings of abandonment, inability to trust, etc., - basically, being unable, or finding it much more difficult, to have healthy relationships with anyone (romantic, friends, bosses). The relational impacts are far greater and long lasting than any financial burden or outwardly imposed stigma.

 

 

so true...financially it is a strain but my girls will never go without.... i would instead......but the emotional emptiness you talk about.......so true....

 

when my daughters were on campo i had two issues...one was when one daughter feel ill, and she started to cry to her sister dad is never here for me when i am hurt......adn the older daughter had my scarf with her and kept sniffing it when my youngest daughter asked about it....she said it smells like mum when i miss her i sniff it........that daughter is the one who has mental health issues ptsd and depression stemming from a break up that was a complete shock........it has taken her years to come to an alright place.......a long ways to go........

 

 

my girls wont leave home early i know that...they have extreme abandonment issues...all of them......a.they dont want to leave home because they dotn want to leave me.....i do however want them to have happy lives away from me eventually with partners who love them, stabel relationships that are loving and caring...that is my dream...i am a bulldog about that..i get them the help they need hopefully to not carry their issues into relationships....they are loving and caring girls with their friends and even strangers they are compassionate and kind.......in that way....i am so proud that i have done something right they are awesome girls and soon to be women.........deb

[Star Gazer]

I didn't mean prevent from growing, that was a mistake there...the point would be to prevent the coping mechanisms from developing in the first place that are basically disguising the real problems and issues underneath...and then taking years to realize and understand that their issues were affecting their choices in their lives.

 

Well, they're not "coping mechanisms." Rather, they're repeating what they know.

 

For example: A woman whose father was physically present but emotionally absent will pick a similar partner, for two reasons. One, it's what she knows, it's her model. Second, and more importantly, she hopes to "fix" her childhood hurts through her new partner. If she can somehow make this new physically present man emotionally present as well, she'll have repaired/fixed her childhood hurts. However, that never happens, she's never able to make the man love her and be there for her, so she just ends up with the reinforced belief that she is not worthy of a man who will be emotionally present for her.

 

If you are repeatedly encountering EU women with abandonment issues, that says more about you than them, Ninja. They're repeating their patterns by choosing you. You might want to think about that for yourself; turn the focus inward, instead of on them.

[Star Gazer]

so true...financially it is a strain but my girls will never go without.... i would instead......but the emotional emptiness you talk about.......so true....

 

when my daughters were on campo i had two issues...one was when one daughter feel ill, and she started to cry to her sister dad is never here for me when i am hurt......adn the older daughter had my scarf with her and kept sniffing it when my youngest daughter asked about it....she said it smells like mum when i miss her i sniff it........that daughter is the one who has mental health issues ptsd and depression stemming from a break up that was a complete shock........it has taken her years to come to an alright place.......a long ways to go........

 

 

my girls wont leave home early i know that...they have extreme abandonment issues...all of them......a.they dont want to leave home because they dotn want to leave me.....i do however want them to have happy lives away from me eventually with partners who love them, stabel relationships that are loving and caring...that is my dream...i am a bulldog about that..i get them the help they need hopefully to not carry their issues into relationships....they are loving and caring girls with their friends and even strangers they are compassionate and kind.......in that way....i am so proud that i have done something right they are awesome girls and soon to be women.........deb

 

You can only do so much, Deb. You're a great mom, but you can only do so much.

[Ninjainpajamas]

May I suggest something before this thread turns into an anti-single parenthood? Are the worst impacts single parenthood or the effects of "otherness", social stigma and less financial resources?

 

I think the relationship between parents can be just as damaging if not more to a child than the experience of a single-parent home.

 

It depends on structure and support, communicating and understanding a child's needs and traumas so that they can be dealt with possibly during the development stage before they become "hard-wired".

 

You don't control what a child learns, sees or interprets, their interpretation and version of reality is obviously much different than an adults, their perception as a child...although misinformed or misunderstanding will stick as their "reality" because of the emotional impact of the circumstances.

 

Fighting between parent parents, abuse, the obvious absence or emotional disconnect between parents is apparent to children more than I think adults think...I think adults often think children just don't understand or won't remember something when they're small...so they think it'll have no psychological affect on the child because it's too young to absorb. A lot of things stick that parents don't realize.

[hoping2heal]

I didn't mean prevent from growing, that was a mistake there...the point would be to prevent the coping mechanisms from developing in the first place that are basically disguising the real problems and issues underneath...and then taking years to realize and understand that their issues were affecting their choices in their lives.

 

It's an evolution of that individual. Coping mechanisms are all very normal though not all of them are healthy. Many can be detrimental and unhealthy. I was sexually abused by a cousin as a young child. I have a laundry list of negative coping mechanisms that helped me to "survive". In fact, I spent the next 20 years of my life "surviving" as opposed to living. No one could fix any of my issues for me. I had to seek therapy myself and I couldn't make my boyfriend my therapist or the healer of my emotional wounds. I had to decide I wanted something different for myself and it was slow going but now that it's all coming full circle, it's been very worth it.

 

I'm not the only success story by any means but I'm a rare one. I don't know or understand what makes me different from those who choose to continue being unhealthy instead of getting healthy. I have no idea what the difference is or why it is. I mentioned individuality earlier and at the end of the day it comes down to that. Some can't break the cycle and others do. Some will seek help and deal with their issues and go on to have healthy, stable, loving relationships. Some will continue to enter into unhealthy and painful ones that repeat the same sad cycle.

[Ninjainpajamas]

If you are repeatedly encountering EU women with abandonment issues, that says more about you than them, Ninja. They're repeating their patterns by choosing you. You might want to think about that for yourself; turn the focus inward, instead of on them.

 

These are not all the women I encounter, nor are they all women I am romantically involved with or have gravitated to in any way.

 

These can range from a variety of people through different associations, often times not even women I have any associations with at all, this is just one group of women that I encounter and am discussing here...the fact of the matter is I talk to women about these things in general, has nothing to do with a romantic involvement....but many many women have these issues and it has nothing to do with me, these issues/problems are very common and that tells you something about society not me.

 

Yes and I understand that these women sacrifice much to try and fix these men not for their sake but to "earn their love and right to be loved", many living in fear of constant abandonment.

 

You're mixing abandonment issues though and crossing them with others, there is a difference here...depending on other issues they may react to an extreme or push men far away and keep them at arms distance so they can't be hurt in the first place...there's a difference between someone who throws themselves all into a guy and begs for his validation, acceptance and love or who guards herself and protects herself and never really opens her heart because she doesn't want to be hurt but still pursues and engages the man ultimately not letting him leave and convincing herself he's still invested because he comes back too.

[Star Gazer]

You're mixing abandonment issues though and crossing them with others, there is a difference here...

 

No, I'm not. My focus is strictly on being EU as a result of abandonment. You're expanding on it.

[tbf]

SG "It's hard to explain unless you've lived it yourself."

 

I've had a pretty rough life/childhood and been through a lot of downs and downs....which allows me to relate to many things, and I can relate to that.

Ninja, if you can relate to a lot of these issues, rather than focusing on women as projects needing to be fixed because they're essentially broken, how have you personally addressed the issues you can relate to?

 

The reason I ask is that quite often, people project while seeking confirmation bias.

 

So that people understand, defense mechanisms are subconscious and coping mechanisms are conscious, a la Freud.

[ChessPieceFace]

OP:

 

- Where is the quoted text from? Why does it have credibility?

- Looking at your responses which could be summed up as "if you disagree with me get out of the thread" maybe your problem is that you are argumentative and dismissive.

- Your signature calling men pigs is offensive. Yet another problem.

[Eternal Sunshine]

I am as EU as they come, a classic case I think.

 

I grew up in a loving family. While my father was less emotionally expressive, I never doubted his love. He was always there for me. My mum was loving to the point of having me spoiled. I am still incredibly close to them (including my brother). I can't say that I ever felt empty in my childhood years. I mean my parents had their faults; like they were overly critical but I can't say that this is the reason behind my issues.

 

However, I did have a very traumatic experience in my teen years that was out of my parent's control. This is something I have never spoken about to anyone on LS (public or PMs) and I strongly feel that it impacted me so greatly that it's where my issues stem from. In fact, I was never able to share this experience with anyone except for my parents (who were understanding and supportive). I never spoke about it to a friend or any man I dated. I wanted to, but I always froze up and the words never came out. I even tried therapy, but was never able to open up about it to a therapist either...

 

While I am fully aware of my patterns and emotional issues, and have been for years, I have never made much progress in resolving them.

[Star Gazer]

OP:

 

- Where is the quoted text from? Why does it have credibility?

 

Does it matter?

 

- Looking at your responses which could be summed up as "if you disagree with me get out of the thread" maybe your problem is that you are argumentative and dismissive.

 

Nope. My responses asked those commenting to stay ON TOPIC, which you are not, and that if you can't relate and/or can't contribute to the TOPIC, to step out. I'll ask you to do the same.

 

- Your signature calling men pigs is offensive. Yet another problem.

 

You're taking a joke signature with a good point way too seriously. Why so serious? And: Still off topic.

 

Do you have anything ON TOPIC to contribute to the thread?

[todreaminblue]

I am as EU as they come, a classic case I think.

 

I grew up in a loving family. While my father was less emotionally expressive, I never doubted his love. He was always there for me. My mum was loving to the point of having me spoiled. I am still incredibly close to them (including my brother). I can't say that I ever felt empty in my childhood years. I mean my parents had their faults; like they were overly critical but I can't say that this is the reason behind my issues.

 

However, I did have a very traumatic experience in my teen years that was out of my parent's control. This is something I have never spoken about to anyone on LS (public or PMs) and I strongly feel that it impacted me so greatly that it's where my issues stem from. In fact, I was never able to share this experience with anyone except for my parents (who were understanding and supportive). I never spoke about it to a friend or any man I dated. I wanted to, but I always froze up and the words never came out. I even tried therapy, but was never able to open up about it to a therapist either...

 

While I am fully aware of my patterns and emotional issues, and have been for years, I have never made much progress in resolving them.

 

 

its hard eternal to open up to people....it can help

 

 

 

when i was abused as a child my parents told me dont tell anyone, they were worried about publicity and my shyness........it would have been news......i wasnt the only one who was abused by this couple .......there were kids from a local orphanage as well....

 

i have found talking about it has helped, been huge therapy for me ...i dont go into graphics........i didnt even with my parents.....i dont think i need to or did i need to tell them everything.....and to this day.......still havent.......i tried to research a couple of years ago.......find out if the orphanage officials reported it ro him or if they were maybe caught.....(they took off)...found nothing.......got to the point i had to let it go.........ill never know if some old couple walking down the street might be them.......and either way i have forgiven them its taken a while but i have.......i cant live back there with distrust or hate anymore

 

i wish you love and light eternal, and forgiveness from that huge heart of yours for whoever has done the wrong by you......i know it doesnt fix what happened or does it matter that i wish you light from regret in your life...i just hope one day its there for you..hugs.....deb

[Dread Pirate Roberts]

Will never understand why people do this in the first place. Does not compute.

[Eternal Sunshine]

its hard eternal to open up to people....it can help

 

 

 

when i was abused as a child my parents told me dont tell anyone, they were worried about publicity and my shyness........it would have been news......i wasnt the only one who was abused by this couple .......there were kids from a local orphanage as well....

 

i have found talking about it has helped, been huge therapy for me ...i dont go into graphics........i didnt even with my parents.....i dont think i need to or did i need to tell them everything.....and to this day.......still havent.......i tried to research a couple of years ago.......find out if the orphanage officials reported it ro him or if they were maybe caught.....(they took off)...found nothing.......got to the point i had to let it go.........ill never know if some old couple walking down the street might be them.......and either way i have forgiven them its taken a while but i have.......i cant live back there with distrust or hate anymore

 

i wish you love and light eternal, and forgiveness from that huge heart of yours for whoever has done the wrong by you......i know it doesnt fix what happened or does it matter that i wish you light from regret in your life...i just hope one day its there for you..hugs.....deb

 

 

Aw thanks for the kind words blue

 

My parents really encourage me to talk about it but I just...can't. My mum wants me to start small, even just tell a friend. Every time I tell her how I made a friend and we have gotten close, she asks; have you told her? And I go no

 

Anyway, I don't want to derail Star's thread.

[tbf]

Will never understand why people do this in the first place. Does not compute.

Do what? Act like themselves? Be honest?

[Star Gazer]

Anyway, I don't want to derail Star's thread.

 

You're not. Have at it.

[todreaminblue]

Aw thanks for the kind words blue

 

My parents really encourage me to talk about it but I just...can't. My mum wants me to start small, even just tell a friend. Every time I tell her how I made a friend and we have gotten close, she asks; have you told her? And I go no

 

Anyway, I don't want to derail Star's thread.

 

i dont want to derail it either eternal......

..consider yourself hugely hugged..........smilin atcha...nuff said.......:bunny: have some bunnies from me to you....deb

[Anela]

I've been trying to respond to this all evening, but keep writing a book. So the short version is: yes, I can relate to things written in thread. Not passing over good guys, because I don't have to chase them: I haven't met any good guys who spin my wheels. And I really haven't met any good guys.

 

I did notice a similar attraction to a guy who was more confident than a certain someone from my past, and more sociable/has a lot more friends and charisma - but there was an attitude thing... we might have been friends, had I not really needed to have someone I liked, be attracted to me at the time, but his wanting someone younger, prettier, more educated, to date, just reinforced my fresh fears.

 

I've had certain issues for years, but that's what had me writing the book, so I'll leave it for tonight.

Edited July 9, 2013 by Anela

[Ninjainpajamas]

Ninja, if you can relate to a lot of these issues, rather than focusing on women as projects needing to be fixed because they're essentially broken, how have you personally addressed the issues you can relate to?

 

The reason I ask is that quite often, people project while seeking confirmation bias.

 

So that people understand, defense mechanisms are subconscious and coping mechanisms are conscious, a la Freud.

 

First of all, I was very tired and battling some stiff allergies (reason I was still awake in the first place) when typing a lot of these posts so I wasn't able to be as concise and as careful with my wording and explanations as the focus just wasn't there, so there are many things I'd have liked to have done a better job explaining and expressing...this "understanding" of these issues, because many of the things mentioned by Star Gazer and hoping2heal were saying exactly things I knew and would absolutely mention specifically in these cases because they are things I've heard many many times to a T.

 

It would have been beneficial to me to essentially "take the words out of their mouth" before they expressed them to establish credibility, but it just wasn't coming to me at the time in a complete way, my concentration wasn't there.

 

As far as focusing on women as projects instead of people, that might be the outside perception...the difference is I've heard much of what is already being said, about 99 percent of it...so naturally I may have seemed to glaze over or minimize the fact, or feelings present as If I negate those emotions or expressions completely, which I do not, I just don't express that but I hear everybody here even emotionally speaking, I am receptive to that...but I'm not the therapist here and I'm looking at this information collectively, and furthermore emotionally connecting with people on LS is not my agenda...I am merely discussing the topic here in an objective way as possible...once you start emotionally investing yourself in conversations/discussions, even online it changes not only the dynamic of the conversation but personalizes the argument, which is not what I'm ultimately looking to do...this is not about a battle of me vs. X.

 

However I cannot control other peoples emotions and response/reaction to my "cold" or objective statements as I speak of things in a general context, not personal. I recognize when that results in inquisitive, judgmental or defensive behavior...I'm very keen to all of that, I see what is unfolding, and the mood that is being shifted.

 

I also do not necessarily feel the need or desire to receive validation in form of "Ok, this guy knows what he's talking about"...I am satisfied and confident with my own opinions and perspectives based on the knowledge and experiences that i have, therefore I merely express that.

 

Having worked on my personal issues now for many years, it's what has enlightened me and granted me much of the greater perspective I have in understanding things...I don't view things down long dark tunnels of the unknown but from a third-person perspective seeing the entire system of tunnels that make up the the entire subway system so to speak.

 

So If I were doing this...

 

"So that people understand, defense mechanisms are subconscious and coping mechanisms are conscious, a la Freud."

 

then I'd be on the same level of many of the people on this forum.

 

Defense mechanisms are subconscious and impulsive, a reactionary phase...but they can become as conscious as your coping mechanisms, if they are openly recognized and addressed.

 

Your "coping mechanisms" can be addressed by conditioning yourself to operate against or to thwart those habits with a conscious and supplementary action...you are aware and recognize that in the moment you are engaging in them.

 

The problem is when you take the "coping mechanism" away from people, you leave them nothing to fill it with, resulting in anxiety and discomfort the longer they try to maintain their conscious and supplementary action to offset it. Therefore there is a slingshot affect, sometimes resulting in more self-destructive behavior than what may have originally occurred due to the "build-up".

 

It takes time, persistence and dedication to even put a dent in those coping mechanisms...which personally I can say I have done the work.

[RedRobin]

Haven't read all of the posts...

 

If the OP feels like she's had a breakthrough, then I'm happy for her.

 

My only gripe on this thread is any tie to gender on who initiates and what is considered 'chasing'.

[Emilia]

Haven't read all of the posts...

 

.......

 

My only gripe on this thread is any tie to gender on who initiates and what is considered 'chasing'.

You should read all of the posts

[RedRobin]

You should read all of the posts

 

Ok... read through a few posts...

 

It appears the thread has segued into what constitutes emotional unavailability and it's possible causes and remedies.

 

Sounds good to me... Not that anyone needs my blessing.