"Women who are chasers are thrill seekers."

[SJC2008]

I couldnt get my results. It won't give them to me!

 

Look at you still chasing the unavailable lol

[Star Gazer]

I have an emotionally unavailable Father. He has always been this way and probably always will. He was a constant physical presence but not in any way, shape, or form an emotional one. My mother was more affectionate and nuturing during my formative years and I had other immediate family who were that way too. My Grandmother was a huge person in my life for example. I also went through some traumatic things as a kid.

 

I definitely felt the need for male validation but the game changer came when I started to pursue and accomplish personal successes. The less I needed a man's affection or a relationship to define something positive about myself, the less emphasis I put on male validation.

 

For women, everything around us from the time we're just little girls revolves around a man loving us. Fairytales, playing house (being a Mommy), Barbies (Hey, Ken), etc. I think we reach out for male validation because we believe that's what is going to make us feel better except male validation isn't the same as personal achievement and accomplishment. When you get that validation and realize you still feel as empty as you did beforehand now you need something like drama, or a EU man to distract you when the whole time what that person needed had nothing to do with men. But, we're taught to believe that happiness and fulfilment comes from our Prince Charming so we innately look there first.

 

I think that even if my Dad would have been emotionally available and loving, I would have went down a very similar road and had a very similar experience until the day I begin to build these pieces of myself that had nothing to do with a man or a relationship at all. I think that's why there's such a diverse background on women who still do the same thing.

 

I relate to everything you wrote, particularly the bolded.

 

I was much "worse" before I found the professional success I have now. I don't need the validation of my worth (as much) anymore.

[Star Gazer]

It's not really gonna change just like that. And why would she want to? She obviously doesn't want to see him at all unless he comes to her or talk to him unless he calls her.

 

Where exactly are up getting this? You completely twisted my post. I said "I don't wanna!" in the context of not wanting to chase him, because for me, chasing is a sign that I'm backsliding into a place of EU.

 

I absolutely want to see him, so much so that I'm going to see him tonight, 100 miles away.

Edited July 8, 2013 by Star Gazer

[Ninjainpajamas]

I've worked with my therapist for YEARS (off and on, varying degrees depending on need/crisis), and she and I are convinced that it absolutely stems from your childhood/formative years. We try to recreate what we know.

 

For me, I never had a dad. He left when my mom gave birth - literally, held me, and then left. I never had a male role model, good or bad. I was left to flounder, trial and error, through my teens, college years and beyond.

 

I used to say there was nothing wrong with single parenthood because I turned out just fine compared to the statistics, but as a child of a single parent who never understood why her own father abandoned her, and struggled with relationships as a result... I will never intentionally be a single parent. Even infants pick up on that, and as a child growing up, I never understood why I was different from all the other kids who had two parents (even if divorced or one had passed). No one ever taught me what it was like to be loved and respected by a man, because I didn't have that formative relationship to show me and be an example. I had to learn on my own... And, it's been hard. Really hard.

 

Long story short, it almost always stems from some form of abandonment: physical, emotional, etc.

 

I understand...your scenario is similar to many other women I have spoken to about their childhood/past.

 

What has thrown me for a loop after feeling confident with the consistency and linking these things from childhood and the unavailability mainly from the father and other times absence of the maternal parents or the feelng of not being wanted/like a mistake (as I believe all issues stem from - the past) I've met a handful of women who had the same exact issues but with a very different family structure.

 

A close family, very supportive and loving parents...several even exclaimed how her parents taught her to be an individual and proud of herself, they were always supportive and they could talk to their parents about anything, even the father and always reassured her of their love and her parents always put the children first...the parents were still together and they reflected upon their relationship in a positive light but their actions, behaviors and insecurities screamed broken-childhood-abandonment.

 

However there is also something apart of society is obviously greatly influencing the way women are feeling about themselves in a very negative way as well.

 

That made me have to rethink my analysis in some aspects, as I have to be missing something, there has to be some kind of trauma or something buried deep that's being overlooked or denied access to emotionally...something people very often do to shield themselves from certain emotions of vulnerability.

 

Unfortunately although the realization of your issues and the acceptance is a great leap forward, this is the beginning of much of the hard work in rewiring the program you've been running on for years.

 

Most of my thought process goes into solution/resolutions of issues like these and it's the most difficult part to figure out...what do you replace with all that you have taken away from person with that knowledge, that's the hard part...there has to be some reward or fulfillment that comes out of it...which isn't necessarily the case...but I'm working on it.

 

What I do feel strongly about is that an individual has to challenge their issues and fears and vulnerabilities constantly and acting out differently beyond their comfort zone, the difficult part can be entrusting someone with those components which is the main key problem...without communicating trust is hard to build, without transparency the truth is harder to reveal...and most people dating you are likely not understand or be up that kind of challenge, especially if it's daunting and overwhelming because they know nothing about it...which I believe these issues must be addressed with relationships that are more solid, like family or friends.

 

Romantic relationships are a very risky battlefield to exercise change and growth, because it puts your partner through a lot of the process...they are kind of like a guinea pig or testing ground...and then you run the risk of relapsing and reengaging in cyclical behavior because of impulsive reactions and emotional attachments.

[Star Gazer]

Thanks, Ninja.

 

This revelation didn't just happen. I've known/understood it for years. I've grown plenty since my primary EU days. Still room for improvement, but don't you worry about any unsuspecting cutie being my guinea pig.

 

Also, abandonment takes many forms. I thought I had a great little homelife growing up, as there was tons of love in my house; it wasn't until I explored why I was having difficulty with my therapist a couple years ago that a lot of my upbringing and background came to the forefront.

 

An example: Being more doting on one child can leave the less-doted sibling feeling abandoned.

 

The dad who occasionally misses swim meets for business lunches can leave a child feeling abandoned.

 

They can very much be present, and still leave the child feeling empty.

 

It's hard to explain unless you've lived it yourself.

Edited July 8, 2013 by Star Gazer

[Ninjainpajamas]

I definitely felt the need for male validation but the game changer came when I started to pursue and accomplish personal successes. The less I needed a man's affection or a relationship to define something positive about myself, the less emphasis I put on male validation.

 

Good post, I agree and am aware of many of the things you mentioned...they are very consistent however with the exception of this paragraph.

 

Many of the women I have spoken with were highly educated and successful in their lives, they were accomplished from childhood through adulthood, many very hard-working and committed. Trust me, I've dug through this with a fine needle, I could make this an extremely lengthy response but I'll spare the forum...it doesn't seem to be linked to personal success IMO is the gist of it, if anything it might be a necessity or compensation in some form...although not in it's entirety.

 

A lot of times when you can't help yourself, you try to help other people to feel relevant, or lose yourself in a distraction, goals.

 

The realization of your last paragraph which I determined a few years back, because before then I did rest a lot of responsibility on the absence or unavailability in the role of the father...but something was still missing, even with women who had what seemed like to at the least be very present and loving fathers...some of these women were the worst...which is very disheartening to a man such as myself who is already scared enough to ever have a daughter...before that I thought that maybe I could intervene and a father could give her daughter what she needs...be realized it's not always directed towards the father, the validation and acceptance by men is not always linked...at all sadly. I think that's something every young woman has to go through in this society, and the pressures it presents to women.

 

SG "It's hard to explain unless you've lived it yourself."

 

I've had a pretty rough life/childhood and been through a lot of downs and downs....which allows me to relate to many things, and I can relate to that.

Edited July 8, 2013 by Ninjainpajamas

[hoping2heal]

Good post, I agree and am aware of many of the things you mentioned...they are very consistent however with the exception of this paragraph.

 

Many of the women I have spoken with were highly educated and successful in their lives, they were accomplished from childhood through adulthood, many very hard-working and committed. Trust me, I've dug through this with a fine needle, I could make this an extremely lengthy response but I'll spare the forum...it doesn't seem to be linked to personal success IMO is the gist of it, if anything it might be a necessity or compensation in some form...although not in it's entirety.

 

Okay, I'm going to throw another one out for good measure. For science ,

I should have clarified this so it's my bad. My personal successes are not merely accomplishments. It's finding things I'm passionate about. Challenges I'm not only driven by but awakened through. I don't mean to brag (oh hell yes I do, jk) but there are many things I would be good at. Gifts were bestowed to me beyond my control so I take no credit for them. I could have had success in many different avenues should I chose to pursue them. So, how many of those successful and educated women were in love with what they were doing? Not just pursuing a lucrative career because they could do it, not just joining the softball team to make Dad smile. I know people who are just like the women you described but their unhappy and miserable because despite all of the achievements they've made they're missing a big part of their heart in it. Maybe that is the missing piece of the puzzle you seek? Maybe not, thought it was worth a try.

[Star Gazer]

Many of the women I have spoken with were highly educated and successful in their lives, they were accomplished from childhood through adulthood, many very hard-working and committed. Trust me, I've dug through this with a fine needle, I could make this an extremely lengthy response but I'll spare the forum...it doesn't seem to be linked to personal success IMO is the gist of it, if anything it might be a necessity or compensation in some form...although not in it's entirety. .

 

I think you're right about that.

 

My mom and Grammy never ever ever pushed me to be a good student or obtain my own financial and professional success. They were proud, but never directed or even encouraged me to take the path I did. What drived me was a desire to prove myself, if only to myself. I was in GATE, took AP classes, joined every organization I could, got into great schools, went for te high paying gig and fancy car, etc., to prove to myself (and maybe the world) that they way I was brought into this world not control the world that I created for myself.

 

That, and the one example I *did* have growing up was: "You can't rely on a man to take care of you; you're gonna have to do that yourself, right down to your fancy lipgloss."

[hoping2heal]

I think you're right about that.

 

My mom and Grammy never ever ever pushed me to be a good student or obtain my own financial and professional success. They were proud, but never directed or even encouraged me to take the path I did. What drived me was a desire to prove myself, if only to myself. I was in GATE, took AP classes, joined every organization I could, got into great schools, went for te high paying gig and fancy car, etc., to prove to myself (and maybe the world) that they way I was brought into this world not control the world that I created for myself.

 

That, and the one example I *did* have growing up was: "You can't rely on a man to take care of you; you're gonna have to do that yourself, right down to your fancy lipgloss."

 

Gosh, I can relate to so much of this. My Grandma nor my Mother ever went to college, etc. They were proud of me and never discouraged me but much like you said; never encouraged or directed any of it either. When I started out I wanted to be in a high profession so that I could prove all kinds of things to myself. I matured while doing my undergrad though and then it came time to continue my education and even though I would be successful at the route I was about to pursue I knew my heart wouldn't be it. When my true passion revealed itself I struggled. I wanted to be "more"; bigger, better, fancier, make more money than this was going to make me. Give me more affluence and prestige than this would. Yet, I knew I would be unhappy, I wouldn't have fulfillment.

 

So, for me I had to be true to thine self. I don't regret it whatsoever but it was still a hard decision to make. I grew up from a poor family. When I graduated college I was the first in literally no idea how many generations on my Dad's side of the family and one of 3 on my Mom's side of the family in the previous 4 generations. I felt like I had so much to prove. I wanted to overcompensate.

[Maleficent]

*raises hand

 

Here!

Not sure if I'm reformed yet though...

[tbf]

This thread is organically leading to the underlying reasons for social competition and the detrimental effects when unfettered by conscious and ameliorating reasoning.

[Ninjainpajamas]

I know people who are just like the women you described but their unhappy and miserable because despite all of the achievements they've made they're missing a big part of their heart in it. Maybe that is the missing piece of the puzzle you seek? Maybe not, thought it was worth a try.

 

I appreciate the feedback but unfortunately not the piece of the puzzle I seek

 

Several were very enthusiastic about their careers and loved what they did, in fact that seemed to be the driving force in their lives as their career choice was not an easy one to accomplish...basically they required a PHD or climbing the ladder and directly competing with men for positions.

 

Some were lost in this department, but most had still had some accomplishment in their lives worth noting that they loved to do. If they had issues in that realm it's often times because they would drop their lives for a man.

 

I know what kind of women you are referring to though, some of those women are too focused on a man and their identity and self-worth may revolve around it.

 

I wouldn't say women with these similar issues had a link to missing "passion"...in fact they are usually very passionate/determined women but not all...some were more needy than passionate, for them passion was attention.

 

That, and the one example I *did* have growing up was: "You can't rely on a man to take care of you; you're gonna have to do that yourself, right down to your fancy lipgloss."

 

This was a strong quality amongst those who were most independent, in fact many of the women I have known and conversed with were all very much independent.

 

Independence and identity seem to be a strong element today that many women strive for. Not wanting to be judged/valued for their looks, education, job title but who they were as a whole person, naturally.

 

The funny unintended coincidence to many of these women is the influence of good ole Grandma in their lives...assuming they were alive, a close relationship with Grandma is actually a strong consistency.

 

In fact the relationship with grandparents is often mentioned by many, or a strong component when speaking of the past or the family dynamic, especially with the absent roles of parents.

[hoping2heal]

I appreciate the feedback but unfortunately not the piece of the puzzle I seek

 

Several were very enthusiastic about their careers and loved what they did, in fact that seemed to be the driving force in their lives as their career choice was not an easy one to accomplish...basically they required a PHD or climbing the ladder and directly competing with men for positions.

 

Some were lost in this department, but most had still had some accomplishment in their lives worth noting that they loved to do. If they had issues in that realm it's often times because they would drop their lives for a man.

 

I know what kind of women you are referring to though, some of those women are too focused on a man and their identity and self-worth may revolve around it.

 

I wouldn't say women with these similar issues had a link to missing "passion"...in fact they are usually very passionate/determined women but not all...some were more needy than passionate, for them passion was attention.

 

 

 

This was a strong quality amongst those who were most independent, in fact many of the women I have known and conversed with were all very much independent.

 

Independence and identity seem to be a strong element today that many women strive for. Not wanting to be judged/valued for their looks, education, job title but who they were as a whole person, naturally.

 

The funny unintended coincidence to many of these women is the influence of good ole Grandma in their lives...assuming they were alive, a close relationship with Grandma is actually a strong consistency.

 

In fact the relationship with grandparents is often mentioned by many, or a strong component when speaking of the past or the family dynamic, especially with the absent roles of parents.

 

Well Ninja,

 

It's a scary thought but this comes down to individuality at the end of the day. For all of the successful, come from good parents, and yet empty women you know of there are plenty of happy, fulfilled, women in loving relationships not out thrill seeking.

 

We can relate to one another through our similar experiences and backgrounds but we won't all produce the same outcome. Forest's Momma was right..life is like a box of chocolates

[Star Gazer]

Gosh, I can relate to so much of this. My Grandma nor my Mother ever went to college, etc. They were proud of me and never discouraged me but much like you said; never encouraged or directed any of it either. When I started out I wanted to be in a high profession so that I could prove all kinds of things to myself. I matured while doing my undergrad though and then it came time to continue my education and even though I would be successful at the route I was about to pursue I knew my heart wouldn't be it. When my true passion revealed itself I struggled. I wanted to be "more"; bigger, better, fancier, make more money than this was going to make me. Give me more affluence and prestige than this would. Yet, I knew I would be unhappy, I wouldn't have fulfillment.

 

So, for me I had to be true to thine self. I don't regret it whatsoever but it was still a hard decision to make. I grew up from a poor family. When I graduated college I was the first in literally no idea how many generations on my Dad's side of the family and one of 3 on my Mom's side of the family in the previous 4 generations. I felt like I had so much to prove. I wanted to overcompensate.

 

Yup, you get it.

 

My Grammy actually discouraged me from a few things, thinking that if I was unsuccessful, I'd be heartbroken. For example, she didn't want me to try out for the high-school cheerleading squad or swim team, because she was so afraid I wouldn't make it and I'd be devastated. That was quite frustrating for me growing up, even after I did make it and prove her wrong. Her heart was in the right place though.

 

As for my path to success, I can recall like it was yesterday, sitting in my room in a tiny apartment in Glendale, at 8 years old, thinking about what I wanted to be. I wanted to be something important, to prove myself. I decided I'd go for the most highly paid profession that I knew of at that age (a doctor) and the most complex/difficult specialty (neurosurgery). I demanded my mom take me to UCLA (seriously, at 8 years old) so I could pick up the complete course catalog for the university and the medical school, so I could know what I was getting myself into. Eventually, I realized I needed to do something I actually enjoyed, and thankfully, arguing for the underdog in court can make you a pretty penny.

 

I graduated college the same month my mother did. It took her 16 years. Know what motivated her? My trip to UCLA at 8 years old. She beat me by a week, otherwise I would have been the first and only person in her line to have a degree.

[todreaminblue]

"They are not going to be stable enough to stay in any relationship, and it's very likely they are also emotionally unavailable. That's why they tend to chase or pine for emotionally unavailable or emotionally distant men.

 

So, if you find yourself chasing after guys, the likelihood is you are not as ready for a relationship as you believe you are and you have passed many decent guys who will be great partners to you but whose only sins are they are too easy for you because they don't make you chase them (because they're busy chasing you!). They are not a challenge to you, thus they don't activate that sense of uncertainty in your brain that tells you, 'I'm in love!' "

 

Any female current or reformed chasers relate to this?

 

I sure can!!

 

 

i dontchase if i ask a guy its with a great deal of uncertainty and what the heck am i doing mentality..

 

 

 

 

....a very thoughtful man once told me....never chase a guy, if a guy doesnt realize how special you are, he doesnt deserve you......that if a guy truly cares for me he will eb the oen to ask...old fashioned .....yep.......he was a war veteran and a guy who truly did have my best interest at heart....awesome man.....i dont believe in girls chasing guys it just seems wrong....i believe in men being well ....men......deb

[mesmerized]

I don't agree with this. Sometimes women chase simply because nobody is chasing them or they don't like the people who are chasing them.

 

For some women it's about them being emotionally unavailable but not for most chasers. You all can love your passive role all you want, but a lot of chasers end up in happy relationships with men they actually really wanted. Each to their own.

Edited July 9, 2013 by mesmerized

[Star Gazer]

This was a strong quality amongst those who were most independent, in fact many of the women I have known and conversed with were all very much independent.

 

When you're abandoned, you learn quickly that you can't rely on anyone but yourself. (And yet at the same time, you cling to people... people who aren't good for you.)

 

The funny unintended coincidence to many of these women is the influence of good ole Grandma in their lives...assuming they were alive, a close relationship with Grandma is actually a strong consistency.

 

In fact the relationship with grandparents is often mentioned by many, or a strong component when speaking of the past or the family dynamic, especially with the absent roles of parents.

 

H2H is the first person I've "spoken to" about this subject who has an "abandonment story" and also had a present grandmother.

 

My Grammy was the maternal figure in my house; my mom was the paternal, breadwinning figure. I essentially had two parents, as my Grammy moved in with us when I was 2, when her second husband passed away.

 

She, a strict Boston Catholic, didn't approve of my mother's pregnancy, and in many ways didn't approve of my mother's other choices, but when I was born, she changed her tune and loved me like no other. She was truly more of a mother to me than my actual mother was. Her death in October 2008 was transforming for me. I met Skiman a month later, which was (for all its faults) the healthiest relationship I'd had since early college, as he was stable, reliable, loving, generous, etc., etc.

[Treasa]

When you're abandoned, you learn quickly that you can't rely on anyone but yourself. (And yet at the same time, you cling to people... people who aren't good for you.)

 

 

 

H2H is the first person I've "spoken to" about this subject who has an "abandonment story" and also had a present grandmother.

 

My Grammy was the maternal figure in my house; my mom was the paternal, breadwinning figure. I essentially had two parents, as my Grammy moved in with us when I was 2, when her second husband passed away.

 

She, a strict Boston Catholic, didn't approve of my mother's pregnancy, and in many ways didn't approve of my mother's other choices, but when I was born, she changed her tune and loved me like no other. She was truly more of a mother to me than my actual mother was. Her death in October 2008 was transforming for me. I met Skiman a month later, which was (for all its faults) the healthiest relationship I'd had since early college, as he was stable, reliable, loving, generous, etc., etc.

 

My mom and my grandma, both extremely strong, amazing women, also raised me. My grandma did help provide for us for a while, because my mom got laid off and got no child support.

[tbf]

May I suggest something before this thread turns into an anti-single parenthood? Are the worst impacts single parenthood or the effects of "otherness", social stigma and less financial resources?

[Star Gazer]

May I suggest something before this thread turns into an anti-single parenthood? Are the worst impacts single parenthood or the effects of "otherness", social stigma and less financial resources?

 

IMO, no, they're not.

[tbf]

IMO, no, they're not.

Which "are not"?

[hoping2heal]

When you're abandoned, you learn quickly that you can't rely on anyone but yourself. (And yet at the same time, you cling to people... people who aren't good for you.)

 

Yep, in fact "Independent" can often be a ruse for "Not willing to trust anyone, not going to let anyone in, you're staying at arms length" and that goes for both men and women. I know I've gotten in relationships with EU people or people who were bad for me because it gave me an exit. Companionship and emotional feelings yet without having to truly let anyone in or depend on anyone.

[hoping2heal]

May I suggest something before this thread turns into an anti-single parenthood? Are the worst impacts single parenthood or the effects of "otherness", social stigma and less financial resources?

 

I just want to add that despite relating to SG very much, I did not grow up in a single parent household.

 

I think we've come to conclude that one of the worst impacts is the feeling of abandonment. You can feel that whether you have both parents in the household or not.

[Ninjainpajamas]

The consistency is clearly there with "abandonment issues" IMO from my experience, this is redundant to what I've been hearing for years...the hardest part is the actual solution/resolution.

 

How do you help/prevent young women from growing through this entire process of inner reflection and preventing adult women from perpetuating the cycle even as adults...even after everything has been brought to light and understood logically speaking.

 

I know women who struggle with these issues as adults and continue to do so...from my experiences with discussing this with women of varying ages, that there tends to be a shift in the 40's or 50's but it doesn't necessarily end for some. It tends to be very cyclical behavior for many that I've witnessed.

 

I've seen women who cope with this through alcoholism/sex as well with these issues, which of course exacerbates these emotions...for me an obvious sign in many situations is going heavy on the booze that's there's some deep personal issues there.

 

Also there unfortunately seems to be a link on a more personal level which I won't get into...I think rape/molestation can be hugely damaging factors as well.

 

All of these things weigh heavily on the emotions and psychological make-up of a woman in her developing years and continue to inhibit her through her adult life...but these things need to get out on the table, women bear these things too heavily on themselves and feel they can't often times discuss these things with someone which just makes it all the worse...it just becomes this weight/burden and all the solutions are presented external for themselves when it needs to be addressed internally...that's just the cause and affect.

[Star Gazer]

Which "are not"?

 

IMO, the worst effects of single parenthood on a child are not less money or the stigma; they are the emotional emptiness, isolation, feelings of abandonment, inability to trust, etc., - basically, being unable, or finding it much more difficult, to have healthy relationships with anyone (romantic, friends, bosses). The relational impacts are far greater and long lasting than any financial burden or outwardly imposed stigma.