When are you healed..?

[Queen of Sheba]

So, as the BS at what point do you think you are healed and you have managed to put the affair into a box and put it away? MY WS wants me to do that as soon as possible of course. Sound familiar?! Some days I'm going great, I know it didn't mean anything what he did with her. I know that, so that is good. But I can't get over all the things he did to get the sex. The triggers, when do they stop? I can go days fine and then go over the top yelling at WS. I think this perfectly acceptable frankly but he finds it really difficult and "got at" (again I say er excuse me what you did was indefensible so why are you trying to defend yourself?! Which in calmer moments he agrees with). I also say that the way he handles me and my anger and upset will be a big determiner in how quickly we can come through this. I'm rambling. Again.

But has anyone actually felt that they can now go through times ok when the same things would previously have triggered and upset or caused argument?

[Spark1111]

I had a fWS who continuously tried to rug-sweep and trickle-truth, but I wasn't having it and kept forcing, ranting and raving for the truth.

 

If we did not examine where he, we took a left, how on Earth could I be reassured it would not happen again? If I was investing the time and vulnerability to reconcile and trust a future with him, he had to willingly participate in the process.

 

Every attempt from him to move forward before I felt satisfied we had examined backwards left me wondering if I had made the right choice.

 

After exhaustive introspection in IC, MC, Internet reading and blogging ( and I shared it all with him...) I had three choices to choose from:

 

Not except him and his limitations and divorce.

 

Except him and his limitations and stay.

 

Compare the negatives to the positives of the new relationship we were forging and decide and commit, period.

 

At around three years in, I just felt at peace and chose to stay.

 

And I did put the man through hell for those three years and he chose to stay also.

[Queen of Sheba]

My guess is it will be part of my life forever, I will always have a little damage because of the betrayal-

My husband understands this and is also damaged by it-I am actually in a better place than he is right now-he is feeling the full force of who he was at that time-our conversations have been more about his guilt and remorse than about me lately-

How far from dday are you? Is your husband at all damaged by what he did?

2.5 months.

He is feeling very guilty but finds it difficult to show in any way other than his way..!

[Betrayed&Stayed]

So, as the BS at what point do you think you are healed and you have managed to put the affair into a box and put it away? MY WS wants me to do that as soon as possible of course. Sound familiar?! Some days I'm going great, I know it didn't mean anything what he did with her. I know that, so that is good. But I can't get over all the things he did to get the sex. The triggers, when do they stop? I can go days fine and then go over the top yelling at WS. I think this perfectly acceptable frankly but he finds it really difficult and "got at" (again I say er excuse me what you did was indefensible so why are you trying to defend yourself?! Which in calmer moments he agrees with). I also say that the way he handles me and my anger and upset will be a big determiner in how quickly we can come through this. I'm rambling. Again.

But has anyone actually felt that they can now go through times ok when the same things would previously have triggered and upset or caused argument?

 

For me this scenario (i.e. pattern) went on for years. Tell your WH that the damage done will take much longer than 2.5 months to "put into a box". More like 2.5 years. Is he up for it? Are you?

 

My mood would get worse when I was tired. I had to make sure that I got enough sleep or else I would be more likely to react strongly to triggers.

 

Initially after D-day my WW thought that everything would be fine after a few months of MC. It seems to me that most cheating spouses do not grasp the depth and breadth of damage that an affair causes to the BS.

[Spark1111]

two and a half months is a drop in the bucket. Keep reading and keep reading to him too.

 

You may have to temper your rage and pain, but do NOT put it in a box for him.

 

If you feel like crying, cry, and in front of him too. feel vulnerable? Old, un pretty?

 

Unsure you are strong enough to forgive? Will be able to stay?

 

Voice that too. All these Feelings need to be shared in a healthy marriage.

 

he does not get protected from your feelings because he was/is depressed.

 

NOW is the time for really important changes in communication. That is how intimacy is built. EVERYTHING gets shared.

[Queen of Sheba]

Initially after D-day my WW thought that everything would be fine after a few months of MC. It seems to me that most cheating spouses do not grasp the depth and breadth of damage that an affair causes to the BS.

 

This leads to a question - any BS or WS think they are unique in their behaviours and feelings about affairs? Nope...

[Queen of Sheba]

For me this scenario (i.e. pattern) went on for years. Tell your WH that the damage done will take much longer than 2.5 months to "put into a box". More like 2.5 years. Is he up for it? Are you?.

Don't know, depends what the 2yrs involves. If its 2 yrs of fighting and arguing then no he isn't. If its 2 yrs of showing remorse and being aware of what I am feeling whether I show it or not I don't know. He may say yes but if he means it or is able I don't know. The arguments are lessening but the triggers are there and we have lots of times in the year to come which he has serioulsy tarnished due to complete and utter selfishness and disregard for his family (which he still doesn't get) and will have to work hard on, really hard as they arise. I think he should be aware of this and work hard but I fear that I will have to remind him which will not help the healing process and will show up that he still doesn't "get it".

 

My mood would get worse when I was tired. I had to make sure that I got enough sleep or else I would be more likely to react strongly to triggers.

Yep I'm still not sleeping well and certainly tired much of the time.

 

Initially after D-day my WW thought that everything would be fine after a few months of MC. It seems to me that most cheating spouses do not grasp the depth and breadth of damage that an affair causes to the BS.

Oh does that ring true!

[Confused48]

may say yes but if he means it or is able I don't know.

 

he has serioulsy tarnished due to complete and utter selfishness and disregard for his family (which he still doesn't get)

 

but I fear that I will have to remind him which will not help the healing process and will show up that he still doesn't "get it".

 

 

I know I sound like a broken record but ........ do the 180.

[Queen of Sheba]

I know I sound like a broken record but ........ do the 180.

Does that just mean threaten to go? I think if I said if you don't get it I'm off he'd say fine. He thinks he's trying, he is, but not hard enough on the difficult stuff and he will look at it as he does not want to argue for the next 2 years rather than look deeper at himself and then we wouldn't be. I'm still trying to get him to work harder but he just sees that as Punishment I think!

[lilmisscantbewrong]

Queen I might ramble a little here, but I am both a FOW and a subsequent BS.

 

It has been 3 1/2 years since dday hit for me and about 1 1/2 since dday hit for my husband.

 

I know for myself and the affair I had, I really needed to get to the bottom of the WHY. My husband us more of a "I see a problem, lets fix it" kind of guy. When our MC told him it could take 2 years to low through it he didn't want to hear it. I was never a great communicator (learned that from my mother well) and so it was extremely hard to verbalize what I was feeling and how I got to that point. Some of it was "affair babble" but some of it was truly coming from a very broken place. It was so hard for my husband to understand why I could open up all of that brokenness to my XMM and not to him. I think much of that was because both my XMM and I were broken and had many of the same childhood experiences and he opened up to me like he couldn't open up to his wife. I am not saying its right, it happened because we allowed it to happen.

 

So forging through all of that was extremely hard and because I was also dealing with the public humiliation (the church reading our names), the fact that XMM couldn't stand beside me as he promised and he ran and didn't face anything I was swimming in a sea of abandonment - some of which I created for myself.

 

I was being as honest as I could about my feelings, answering questions that he asked, etc. actually early on XMM was doing the same thing. He actually met with my grown daughter and told her how much he loved me. This was hard for my husband to hear and hard for his bs as well.

 

I don't say these things to hurt you or upset you or even say that your husband is not telling the truth when he said it didn't mean anything, but I think ther is some rug sweeping going on because men just want to get back to some normalcy as soon as possible after an affair like is.

 

When it was my husbands turn, I don't believe he was ever completely honest with me about his relationship with his ow. I think that he did love and care for her ( I saw the texts) - I know my husband - he is a giving and loving and compassionate man - he does not use women. I think he felt so lonely and so abandoned by me that he turned to someone who was admiring him, paying attention to him, listening to him while I was still grieving the loss of my XMM. I am not making excuses for his decision to have an affair, I am just looking at it objectively I guess.

 

I also know this. My husband (after his affair was discovered) would ask on occasion "do you not want to try anymore" - this while I was in the midst of asking questions about his affair. He didn't want to answer my questions basically. I just finally said to him "don't ask me that question anymore or you might get the answer you are seeking". I only say this because sometimes the other party wants YOU to make the decision to leave so they don't have to take responsibility in the decision to divorce. This happens a great deal. I mean when I think about my own affair, it would have been easier if my husband had thrown me out or he had left - everyone would have understood why and the decision would have been made for me - no responsibility in that.

 

I think you have to decide what YOU want. And if you love this man and want to stay married to him, divorce needs to be off the table IF he is willing to come clean and answer all of your questions until you are satisfied - whatever or whenever that is. You need to pick some times to have conversations and then take a break from it - you can't talk about it 24/7. You need to tell him if you can't discover the whys of this affair ( because I don't believe for a minute it didn't mean anything - I think it did or he wouldn't have done it) then you will find yourself in the same spot years down the road. You and he must discover what led to this point.

 

Some websites will say we are all "wired for affairs"- maybe that's true, I don't know - but I really don't think so - I believe that there is some dysfunction and brokenness that leads to behavior like this - I know that it did in my case.

 

I hope that helps a little and please know I mean you well - I am so sorry you are dealing with this and believe me when I tell you that you are so new to this (2 1/2 months is nothing) it will take a lot of time - a lot.

[Confused48]

Does that just mean threaten to go? I think if I said if you don't get it I'm off he'd say fine. He thinks he's trying, he is, but not hard enough on the difficult stuff and he will look at it as he does not want to argue for the next 2 years rather than look deeper at himself and then we wouldn't be. I'm still trying to get him to work harder but he just sees that as Punishment I think!

 

Can someone post a helpful link on the 180 for her?

Queen - if you can't live without this guy you will have to accept being abused. You can't expect him to treat you right if you don't respect yourself. If you are so fearful of being without him then you are saying you are not good enough or complete without him.

 

Some people use the 180 as a tool, to manipulate their WS to want to be with them. To wake up the WS. I'm sure it works sometimes. It might work for you. But the most effective way to do the 180 is to really believe it. Believe that you are better than this. That you don't need him. That it is over unless something really radically changes in him.

 

When I did the 180 I did not even think of it as the 180. I was just done. I'd reached a breaking point and, in my mind, there was nothing my WS could say or do that would change my mind. At first it was very painful and hard. But that lasted about half a day. Then I felt so strong and empowered and liberated. It was fantastic.

 

WS did everything WS could think of to change my mind. Why? It could be in part b/c WS finally realized that our marriage was worth fighting for. It could also be that WS saw this new, strong, confident person that I have become and was more attracted to the new me. WS also probably realized that this new me was going to be able to find a better relationship fast if that is what I wanted.

 

Sometimes you have to be willing to walk away from a deal to get what you want. Be strong. Good luck.

[Queen of Sheba]

To both above:

I know why he had his affair. To answer questions about sex which I couldn't answer. Oddly although I obviously have serious issues around the fact that he had sex with another woman, it isn't this that hurts the most. It's everything around it, the time, the romance, the lies, the dismissing of my feelings all the time, the treating me like crap throughout the time because he was "ill", the refusal to stop it so he could become well again, the things he did for her/sex but wouldn't do/won't do comparable for me etc etc. Much of these threads advise getting to the bottom of the why. I know the why, does that mean I'm nearer to healing than others would be????? Please???

 

It's everything else we have to deal with...

[Confused48]

To both above:

I know why he had his affair. To answer questions about sex which I couldn't answer. Oddly although I obviously have serious issues around the fact that he had sex with another woman, it isn't this that hurts the most. It's everything around it, the time, the romance, the lies, the dismissing of my feelings all the time, the treating me like crap throughout the time because he was "ill", the refusal to stop it so he could become well again, the things he did for her/sex but wouldn't do/won't do comparable for me etc etc. Much of these threads advise getting to the bottom of the why. I know the why, does that mean I'm nearer to healing than others would be????? Please???

 

It's everything else we have to deal with...

 

I don't think I or may a BS would tell you to figure out why. Just know he was one F'up dude that had problems and did something reprehensible and there is no excuse. You seem to be thinking of excuses for him. Or believing his excuses.

 

No, don't worry about why he did it. Worry about what you need to do about it. You are not protecting yourself. You are going to see him do it again if he does not change and it does not seem like he is.

 

What is his incentive to change? You have made it clear you won't leave him. He basically got away with it. Now he knows how to cover his tracks better and that if he slips up then, oh well, you will give him some grief and then take him back. He doesn't even have to be remorseful. He isn't remorseful. IMHO.

 

You buy his story about being curious about sex with others. True or not there is something wrong with a person that has an affair for any reason but that one! Wow! And he is not motivated to find out what is wrong with him that he let curiosity drive him to infidelity. Next time he will say, well the woman was so (tall, Asian, short, pretty... insert attribute here) that I could not resist. If he can't resist curiosity he can't resist anything. He is not sorry he did it. Just sorry you are not more ok with it than you already are.

 

Is he going to IC & MC?

[seren]

QOS, 2.5 months is such a short time to be expected to bundle up all the hurt, anger and everything other emotion that comes after a D Day. I was still throwing up and feeling lost at that time, my H felt such shame and disgust with himself I think he too wished it could all be bundled up and shoved in a box marked, don't go there. But, when he saw how hurt and betrayed I felt he realised the depth of his betrayal. I used to have such rage and while I am a very assertive person, rage was a new emotion for me. I used to journal and write down all I felt and wanted to say, one day I wrote him a letter pouring it all out, I left him the journal and said I would be back in an hour and then we would talk. That was the beginning of him finally getting how destructive his A had been.

 

Like you, I understood the why of the A, it didn't help my recovery, maybe it helped our reconciliation and my decision to stay, but the hurt still took a long time to live with. I, like Spark would say that around the 3 year point it got easier, it never went away and remains like a scar, but it has healed. We used to talk for around 45 minutes and then I would have enough going over and over the same ground, getting the same answers, which was good, but the asking became tiresome - to me. I got fed up talking about it, realised it was a very destructive A for H as well as our marriage.

 

There came a point when looking ahead was more important than looking back, that the details didn't matter so much, that H showed remorse, went out of his way to make me feel secure and loved and saw how much he was hurting too. I never stopped loving, but I did stop respecting and without that I knew we didn't have a chance, H's willingness to pick up the load too helped. I think a lot of WS feel such disgust that they just don't weant to go there, if my H hadn't been ready to be the rock I battered my head against, then I would have gone. I needed to see that he was prepared for the hard work and reconciling is hard work, it also means a lot of introspection by the WS. I would let him know what you need, if he cannot step up, then I would ask myself if he cannot understand or is willing to go the whole nine yards, if he doesn't the commitment to reconcile is hard, then if he was the person I could ever trust or love again.

 

Take care QOS, don't be too quick to shove it all in a box, it has a habit of popping back up and biting you (general) on the arse. You do what you need to do for you. x

[Queen of Sheba]

I don't think I or may a BS would tell you to figure out why. Just know he was one F'up dude that had problems and did something reprehensible and there is no excuse. You seem to be thinking of excuses for him. Or believing his excuses.

Lots of people have said to find out the why, I knew that from the beginning, it's that which WS thinks makes his affair different to others and less serious!!!!!!!!! It doesn't of course. I am not making excuses for him, just listing the excuses he gives....!

 

 

No, don't worry about why he did it. Worry about what you need to do about it. You are not protecting yourself. You are going to see him do it again if he does not change and it does not seem like he is.

 

What is his incentive to change? You have made it clear you won't leave him. He basically got away with it. Now he knows how to cover his tracks better and that if he slips up then, oh well, you will give him some grief and then take him back. He doesn't even have to be remorseful. He isn't remorseful. IMHO.

I haven't made it clear I won't leave. He knows I'm working on this for our son. Had he not been around I would have walked straight away and not regretted it. Self respect more than anything else. At the moment no-one else knows so I don't have support from anyone. Should I leave I doubt he would even get support from his best mate whom he lied to, let down and he's known for 55 years. I would be well supported emotionally if not financially. He is showing some remorse. It has wained and he is doing things to show he is sorry but all things that he thinks show it nothing that I have asked for, real commitment to us and making this work long term.

 

You buy his story about being curious about sex with others. True or not there is something wrong with a person that has an affair for any reason but that one! Wow! And he is not motivated to find out what is wrong with him that he let curiosity drive him to infidelity. Next time he will say, well the woman was so (tall, Asian, short, pretty... insert attribute here) that I could not resist. If he can't resist curiosity he can't resist anything. He is not sorry he did it. Just sorry you are not more ok with it than you already are.

 

Is he going to IC & MC?

Not quite. I buy the story that he wanted to know what "normal" sex was like without going into detail about our sex life (we did have one but with problems). However, I do not excuse it it any shape or form because of the way he did it. He could have done it quite easily with a prostitute but no he had to do it the most apalling dishonest way possible and he did. Because he didn't get answers there is always going to be a fear that he will do it again not for any other curiosity but to get answers and certainly he now knows how not to get caught. And of course because of what he has done he has set our own sex like back a 100 paces.

 

Yes we go to MC costing him a fortune! The MC said she thought 6 weeks, it's been more than that! Still going! Think it's about 9 or 10 now.

[Queen of Sheba]

QOS, 2.5 months is such a short time to be expected to bundle up all the hurt, anger and everything other emotion that comes after a D Day. I was still throwing up and feeling lost at that time, my H felt such shame and disgust with himself I think he too wished it could all be bundled up and shoved in a box marked, don't go there. But, when he saw how hurt and betrayed I felt he realised the depth of his betrayal. I used to have such rage and while I am a very assertive person, rage was a new emotion for me. I used to journal and write down all I felt and wanted to say, one day I wrote him a letter pouring it all out, I left him the journal and said I would be back in an hour and then we would talk. That was the beginning of him finally getting how destructive his A had been.

I wrote masses. List of the hurt, list of all the issues round texting, things that he did for her and never did for me etc. I find writing very very helpful,why I write so much on here, helpful just writing even before getting the advice from others. The penny hasn't dropped, it's on slow fall!

[Confused48]

It's early here but quickly, for now, let me say I think that you may have heard that it is important for your H to figure out why he did this. Not you. And no, he did not do it out of curiosity. That is the scratch on the surface.

 

Please don't you worry about why he did it. It has nothing to do with you. It is him. But if you are to continue as a married couple with him being faithful, then he needs to figure out what was so broken and corrupt inside him that he let his curiosity drive him to such a low and awful way of treating you. You can not figure this out for him. You should not trust him till he does figure it out.

 

Most people need IC to figure this out. MC is great and continue but IC is likely needed as well. Infidelity can be costly in so many ways.

[Confused48]

I feel like I'm beating a dead horse and I will stop now, after this one more swing. I read this today on "chump lady". I think it might help you Q of S

 

So you’ve been chumped and you’re trying to decide if your cheater is truly sorry. Is it real remorse? Or is it genuine imitation Naugahyde remorse (GINR)? You know, sort of looks like the real thing, but upon closer inspection is a cheap fake. Here’s a handy check list to help you distinguish.

 

1. Humility. Cheating is about entitlement. Being truly sorry is about humility. That means the cheater doesn’t go first in anything for a loooong time. Their grievances about the marriage, for instance. Their “healing.” (Grieving the affair partner? Give me a ****ing break.) Remorse is the cheater recognizing their place on the food chain — which is grovel level for as long as the chump needs it. That means a chump’s grief is not met with dismissive anger. That means there are no false equivalencies. (Well, you suck too!) True remorse is a deep awareness that infidelity broke a sacred trust, and you are not owed reconciliation.

 

2. Initiative. Real remorse books its own shrink appointments. Real remorse does the homework. Real remorse does not need to be cajoled, wheedled, or dragged by its ear. Real remorse buys the books and reads the books. GINR waits for you to do it, and then finds a very good reason to be too busy.

 

3. Honesty. You can’t cheat on someone without lying to them. Real remorse spits out the truth. All of the truth, and it doesn’t editorialize and say things like “she really needed me” or “he was just a friend.” Real remorse answers the same questions over and over and over again and gives truthful, consistent answers. (None of which is “I don’t know.”) If real remorse doesn’t know, real remorse does whatever it can to find out. Real remorse doesn’t balk at a polygraph. GINR thinks polygraphs are expensive and unreliable. Real remorse will do whatever it must to give you peace of mind even if real remorse thinks it’s pointless.

 

4. Patience. Real remorse understands that repairing a relationship after infidelity is a long haul with dubious prospects. GINR wants to you to “get over it” already because hey, it said it was sorry.

 

5. Ownership. See Humility. Real remorse wears the shame. Real remorse takes responsibility for the fallout. Real remorse is okay if you tell people, because you need the support. GINR wants you to protect its image. GINR blame shifts and says “we all brought issues to this marriage that led me to cheat.” GINR minimizes and obfuscates.

 

6. Recompense. Real remorse understands that reconciliation is a risky investment. GINR wants you to assume all that risk and how dare you ask for any assurances, because don’t you trust me? Real remorse puts its money where its mouth is with a post-nup with an infidelity clause. A completely useless document if the cheater never cheats again, which of course, only the cheater has control over. Real remorse pays your legal bill. Real remorse compensates you and your children for every dime spent on the affair(s). Real remorse recognizes that there are financial and time losses as real as the emotional ones. Time and heartbreak cannot be recompensed. Money can. Real remorse says, it’s the least I can do.