The past part 2: What do you do?

[kaylan]

Let me add,

 

I make it a point to tell women I date that if they lie to me once, Im gone. So they can either bail early, or use what I said as an excuse to try and hoodwink me. Either way, a dishonest woman is not setting herself up for a good time.

 

If I can be honest and not care about how Im judged, clearly there must be other people in the world like that. Im not that unique and 7 billion people live on this planet, so lets be realistic here.

 

And to answer your question; having dealt with liars, cheats, and selfish people whove tried to hoodwink me, I value honesty above all else. That is my bedrock for a fulfilling friendship or relationship.

Edited July 8, 2013 by kaylan

[kaylan]

Im an open book, and Im not ashamed of my past, nor am I afraid of judgement. If my past meant losing someone I wanted to date, Id be fine with it, as it would mean that woman wasnt right for me. The right girl for me will be the girl whos on the same page as me when it comes to honesty and transparency. She would want herself completely accepted by me, the same way Id want to be completely accepted by her. Her secrets shouldnt hurt me, and mine shouldnt hurt her. When I really like a girl and trust her, I can tell her every little detail of my life without shame.

 

But thats just me. I fly in the face of your argument of how everyone will lie to avoid judgement. Again, I cant be THAT unique. So your premises fall short with me, as I think there should at least be a few women out there who feel the way I do.

 

Who gives a damn if a conservative person wont date you because you had a one night stand? I dont give a damn about it. I expect some to see such behavior unfavorably, and I hope those women find the right guy for them. The same way I hope to find a girl whos like-minded to me.

 

EDIT: PS - I dont fear rejection, I seek real and true acceptance. No facades. But thats my desire. Others let a fear of rejection keep them from finding people who truly accept them for who they completely are. I dont want to ever have to wear a mask when it comes to my love life.

Edited July 8, 2013 by kaylan

[johan]

I don't feel ethically/morally obligated to discuss my past at all, except for those aspects that would have a direct affect on the relationship because of other commitments I still have to keep. I have none of those though.

 

So I mostly just keep details about past relationships to myself. Particularly when it comes to sexual stuff. I don't I know when volunteering that kind of information has ever been a good idea for me. Judgments and jealousy are pretty inevitable.

 

I don't trade trust for privacy though. I'll tell her what she wants to know if she really must know. But she seems to understand when we've reached the "if you want to know more, you'll have to drag it out of me" line, and she respects that.

[Emilia]

I don't trade trust for privacy though.

Agree. It's astonishing to me how people think they have the right to your privacy in the name of trust when it's really about their lack of boundaries or their insecurities.

[johan]

Agree. It's astonishing to me how people think they have the right to your privacy in the name of trust when it's really about their lack of boundaries or their insecurities.

 

My ex was a bit like that. She taught me that total open honesty is the best policy only when the truth is actually relevant and it's being shared with someone who won't misuse the information completely.

[silvermercy]

I value honesty in a relationship. If I found out they lied about their wild past (people get drunk and spit it out), they're simply out. At any point of the relationship, no matter how difficult it will be for both of us. (I don't want the risk of my man to start reminiscing ONS, orgies or threesomes in our time together, especially if we hit a rough patch). I would feel very unsafe being with such a man.

 

My solution? huh! I dunno... I polygraph test at the beginning before we become exclusive? lol How I wish...

[ThaWholigan]

I value honesty in a relationship. If I found out they lied about their wild past (people get drunk and spit it out), they're simply out. At any point of the relationship, no matter how difficult it will be for both of us. (I don't want the risk of my man to start reminiscing ONS, orgies or threesomes in our time together, especially if we hit a rough patch). I would feel very unsafe being with such a man.

 

My solution? huh! I dunno... I polygraph test at the beginning before we become exclusive? lol How I wish...

I mean your solution for them.

 

Like, where do they go from there. As Kaylan said, dating is difficult for everybody, but to be consistently moved on because of ones past - even from those with a similar past - would jar.

[joystickd]

Just be honest. The simple fact you are out dating is a risk. Love is acceptance of a person regardless of flaws. How can you truly love the person if they are not giving you their full true self flaws and all

[RedRobin]

I mean your solution for them.

 

Like, where do they go from there. As Kaylan said, dating is difficult for everybody, but to be consistently moved on because of ones past - even from those with a similar past - would jar.

 

My solution has been to only date people I know from my social circle or ones I've known in some other way for a considerable period of time before choosing to date them.

 

That way, people have a way to observe one's actions and behaviors in real time... then should something come up later on that one finds less than ideal, at least you have a way to put things in perspective.

 

Also doesn't rely on excessive 'truth' telling to strangers or the expectation that I just go along with a relationship with them crossing my fingers that past bad choices really are in the past.

 

This works for both parties... for evaluating me and for me evaluating them.

 

I've found that there really are much fewer surprises this way.

 

Edited: Should add that this has been the best way (so far) for me to weed out men with double standards too.

Edited July 8, 2013 by RedRobin

[ThaWholigan]

My solution has been to only date people I know from my social circle or ones I've known in some other way for a considerable period of time before choosing to date them.

 

That way, people have a way to observe one's actions and behaviors in real time... then should something come up later on that one finds less than ideal, at least you have a way to put things in perspective.

 

Also doesn't rely on excessive 'truth' telling to strangers or the expectation that I just go along with a relationship with them crossing my fingers that past bad choices really are in the past.

 

This works for both parties... for evaluating me and for me evaluating them.

 

I've found that there really are much fewer surprises this way.

 

Edited: Should add that this has been the best way (so far) for me to weed out men with double standards too.

I agree and that sounds like an efficient way of dealing with that.

 

What I'm asking is solutions on what the other party should do. We regularly read things about having weak character and other such comments regarding those with a colorful sexual history, as well as those with a distinct lack of it in other threads. I'm looking to provide a platform here for solutions without the looking down of the other party.

[iris219]

This can manifest itself in the often talked about case of a woman/man who is/was promiscuous and finds it difficult to get into an LTR even though they may be faithful in such situations - and worse, may end up being treated solely as someone with whom only sex is on the table and nothing more, when they may wish for something more at the given time. On the flip side, an inexperienced man/woman may encounter a response that is just as discriminatory as nobody wants to take the chance on them.

 

I am not promiscuous and have been treated as only good for sex by men. People will treat you how they want to treat you based on what they want from you.

 

I mentioned before that I don't talk about my past in detail because it doesn't come up. No one asks these sorts of questions.

 

I told my bf that I hadn't had sex in two years right before we slept together. I blurted it out because I was so excited that I was about to have sex with someone I really liked! He said later it freaked him out a little bit, but he didn't judge me. He was afraid that maybe he wasn't worth having sex with since I had already waited so long. He wouldn't have cared if I had been having random sex the entire time I was single. He kinda assumed I had because he thought that's what people did when they were single, and he didn't care if I had. He liked ME, not what I've done or haven't done in the bedroom.

 

Though simple conversation you can deduce someone's past history, or at least enough without having to sit down and extract pointless details (like the exact number of genitals you've touched. I certainly don't care). People will talk about their relationships or their dating struggles. This idea of judging someone based on the past is something I've never experienced--I've never been judged and I don't judge.

 

By the the time I get to the point of desiring a relationship with someone, meaning the compatibility is there, finding out someone has slept with a lot of women or very few women in their past would make no difference in how I view them. I'm a good judge of character and don't need to know all about their sexual past in order to determine their character.

 

I'm more interested in whether they currently want a LTR (with me), how they behaved in their relationships, how they handled conflict, what they've learned from past relationship mistakes, etc.

[RedRobin]

I agree and that sounds like an efficient way of dealing with that.

 

What I'm asking is solutions on what the other party should do. We regularly read things about having weak character and other such comments regarding those with a colorful sexual history, as well as those with a distinct lack of it in other threads. I'm looking to provide a platform here for solutions without the looking down of the other party.

 

I guess I'm not sure what you mean by the other party...

 

Everyone has something about them that another person might find less than satisfactory for whatever reason in certain limited contexts.

 

Me for instance... If I wear makeup, it is only when I'm at work or when I'm going to a social function. Other than that, I rarely wear makeup or style my hair. I'm not a slob by any means... I just prefer natural most of the time. If he's the kind of guy who needs doll face, he's going to be disappointed when he sees me out for a run.

 

I also have a mix of girly and not so girly interests (and abilities). People in my social circle know this about me. In a dating situation (with near strangers) plenty of men might be turned off to know that I drive a motorcycle or have a certain education, accomplishments, or $$ that are higher than theirs... even though I'm not out to prove anything or hang anything over their heads.

 

Even on things that are less than earth shattering issues, getting to know someone outside of a dating construct helps people put things in perspective before the opportunity to 'reject' even happens. People might even find their past values changing.

 

Much like the discussion of gay marriage changed once more people actually got to know gay couples IRL.

[ThaWholigan]

I guess I'm not sure what you mean by the other party...

 

Everyone has something about them that another person might find less than satisfactory for whatever reason in certain limited contexts.

 

Me for instance... If I wear makeup, it is only when I'm at work or when I'm going to a social function. Other than that, I rarely wear makeup or style my hair. I'm not a slob by any means... I just prefer natural most of the time. If he's the kind of guy who needs doll face, he's going to be disappointed when he sees me out for a run.

 

I also have a mix of girly and not so girly interests (and abilities). People in my social circle know this about me. In a dating situation (with near strangers) plenty of men might be turned off to know that I drive a motorcycle or have a certain education, accomplishments, or $$ that are higher than theirs... even though I'm not out to prove anything or hang anything over their heads.

 

Even on things that are less than earth shattering issues, getting to know someone outside of a dating construct helps people put things in perspective before the opportunity to 'reject' even happens. People might even find their past values changing.

 

Much like the discussion of gay marriage changed once more people actually got to know gay couples IRL.

Other party = the rejected. In the context of the recent threads regarding sexual history, this could be the promiscuous person, the person who has had ONS, the inexperienced etc.

[RedRobin]

Other party = the rejected. In the context of the recent threads regarding sexual history, this could be the promiscuous person, the person who has had ONS, the inexperienced etc.

 

Ok.

 

It might help some people to know that a man I was very much in love with broke up with me when he found out how much I made (more than him). He tried to come back later, but the damage was done. I couldn't trust him after that.

 

He was the last person I chose to date outside of my social circle and without trying to establish some kind of friendship first.

 

I don't wish to be rejected prematurely, nor do I wish to reject prematurely... no matter what the issue is.

 

So, I do my best to get to know people outside of dating situations. It is the most respectful for both people.

 

Despite what I tell people here, IRL I'm quite aware of the complexity of life and MIGHT be open to dating someone who had a more colorful past than me... but only after they demonstrated their new values in the here and now without romance on the table. Lots of people here object to that... like they have nothing to prove to me. Ok. Then don't. I don't have to date them either.

 

Long story short... stop worrying about the goddamn 'friendzone'. Let someone get to know you without jumping in the sack. If that means just through Meetups... or without spending $$, fine. Find another way rather than obliging someone to make a romantic decision about you ASAP.

Edited July 8, 2013 by RedRobin

[KungFuJoe]

TheWholigan,

 

I understand what you're trying to get at with your thread, but I think you're trying to analyze a problem that doesn't exist.

 

People are NOT getting rejected "left and right" because of their past. Maybe on LS, they are, but not in real life.

[Emilia]

People are NOT getting rejected "left and right" because of their past. Maybe on LS, they are, but not in real life.

Weeeeell it's not strictly true I think, I rejected a man before for being too much of a slut (I'm talking 100s of women) but it is unusual yes.

[KungFuJoe]

Weeeeell it's not strictly true I think, I rejected a man before for being too much of a slut (I'm talking 100s of women) but it is unusual yes.

 

Well...that's what I mean. It might happen once in a blue moon, but not nearly often enough for it to be an issue, imo.

[ThaWholigan]

TheWholigan,

 

I understand what you're trying to get at with your thread, but I think you're trying to analyze a problem that doesn't exist.

 

People are NOT getting rejected "left and right" because of their past. Maybe on LS, they are, but not in real life.

I figured - in my own real life nobody cares. It was just annoying to read .

 

Plus, I admit I don't really like to see the "promiscuous" as it were, being labelled as having weak character/loose morals/any other similar term - for once I wanted to see something of more tact towards them. I'm not even promiscuous either. I would say the same in the case of inexperienced men/women too. Just feel people need to have more tact when talking about it.

Edited July 8, 2013 by ThaWholigan

[KungFuJoe]

I figured - in my own real life nobody cares. It was just annoying to read .

 

Plus, I admit I don't really like to see the "promiscuous" as it were, being labelled as having weak character/loose morals/any other similar term - for once I wanted to see something of more tact towards them. I'm not even promiscuous either. I would say the same in the case of inexperienced men/women too. Just feel people need to have more tact when talking about it.

 

Agreed...I don't like it when I see promiscuity associated with low morals, etc. In my experience and opinion, there is ZERO...hell...LESS THAN ZERO correlation between sexual history and character/morals.

[Emilia]

LESS THAN ZERO correlation between sexual history and character/morals.

For once I don't agree with you

 

The men I know (about 4 of them) who have had hundreds and hundreds of women over the years have very low consideration for others. A famous British comedian called Frank Skinner said once that if you want to be a womaniser you have to put your compassion to one side (paraphrasing).

[RedRobin]

TheWholigan,

 

I understand what you're trying to get at with your thread, but I think you're trying to analyze a problem that doesn't exist.

 

People are NOT getting rejected "left and right" because of their past. Maybe on LS, they are, but not in real life.

 

Says the married guy...

 

I've rejected many men because of their pasts... no matter how much I liked them.

 

In fact, I'd argue it is my 'default' condition for guys I don't know in some other way.

 

The only reason I gave my most recent guy a chance after learning about his recent FWB is BECAUSE I knew him in another context. Had I not known him in that other environment, I wouldn't have even given him a chance.

 

That said, getting to know him better has given me more insight into how I feel about people who have FWB. Unless it was many years ago and not part of his value system anymore, I wouldn't choose to date a man who had one or more.

[KungFuJoe]

For once I don't agree with you

 

The men I know (about 4 of them) who have had hundreds and hundreds of women over the years have very low consideration for others. A famous British comedian called Frank Skinner said once that if you want to be a womaniser you have to put your compassion to one side (paraphrasing).

 

Well...hundreds and hundreds is pretty extreme...hard to comment on correlations when something is that far to the side.

 

But then I can say look at someone like CarrieT, who has had hundreds of partners and she says she is completely honest and faithful.

[KungFuJoe]

Says the married guy...

 

I've rejected many men because of their pasts... no matter how much I liked them.

 

In fact, I'd argue it is my 'default' condition for guys I don't know in some other way.

 

The only reason I gave my most recent guy a chance after learning about his recent FWB is BECAUSE I knew him in another context. Had I not known him in that other environment, I wouldn't have even given him a chance.

 

That said, getting to know him better has given me more insight into how I feel about people who have FWB. Unless it was many years ago and not part of his value system anymore, I wouldn't choose to date a man who had one or more.

 

Yeah, but you are ONE person, and you are VERY conservative (probably one of the most conservative people on LS, which is saying a lot).

 

Odds are, whoever YOU rejected, went on to find success with the next woman, or at least didn't end up with someone who shared your "POV" about sexual history.

 

Ops' "concern" was about people who KEEP getting rejected due to their history...not one offs such as yourself.

[Emilia]

Well...hundreds and hundreds is pretty extreme...hard to comment on correlations when something is that far to the side.

 

But then I can say look at someone like CarrieT, who has had hundreds of partners and she says she is completely honest and faithful.

I think it's more unusual for a woman but for men it isn't. It is still an outlier to a degree but in London with all the drugs and booze around a lot of guys sleep with many women. Obviously it's nowhere near average but I know a fair number of womanisers and they don't tend to be nice men.

[RedRobin]

Yeah, but you are ONE person, and you are VERY conservative (probably one of the most conservative people on LS, which is saying a lot).

 

Odds are, whoever YOU rejected, went on to find success with the next woman, or at least didn't end up with someone who shared your "POV" about sexual history.

 

Ops' "concern" was about people who KEEP getting rejected due to their history...not one offs such as yourself.

 

Well, I dunno about that. He seemed pretty angry when I rejected him and told him our goals and values aren't compatible.

 

I may be one of the most 'conservative' people on LS... but I'm certainly not the most 'conservative' person amongst other people like me in my educational, financial, or age group. By far.

 

If anything, my peers IRL wouldn't even consider a person with his background... of which I haven't shared fully here... granted. It has just been my personal misfortune to currently live in Upstate NY and be divorced... this is what I have to choose from. The crappy demographics have been noted by many here. I'm taking steps to change that though...

Edited July 8, 2013 by RedRobin