ThaWholigan Posted July 7, 2013 Posted July 7, 2013 Continuing on from the "past is the past" thread, let us say you accept that (as you should IMO) and you then allow yourself to be.....for lack of a better term and to be consistent, "judged" for it. Let us also say that this repeats itself consistently and consequently you find it extremely difficult to find someone who is attractive to you and also accepts your past at any point. This can manifest itself in the often talked about case of a woman/man who is/was promiscuous and finds it difficult to get into an LTR even though they may be faithful in such situations - and worse, may end up being treated solely as someone with whom only sex is on the table and nothing more, when they may wish for something more at the given time. On the flip side, an inexperienced man/woman may encounter a response that is just as discriminatory as nobody wants to take the chance on them. Playing a little devil's advocate here, but I invite those who posted in the previous thread to give their solutions to what the other party should do regarding a hypothetical. No problem with judgements, just would like to see any other opinions regarding..... 1
joystickd Posted July 7, 2013 Posted July 7, 2013 This can manifest itself in the often talked about case of a woman/man who is/was promiscuous and finds it difficult to get into an LTR even though they may be faithful in such situations - and worse, may end up being treated solely as someone with whom only sex is on the table and nothing more, when they may wish for something more at the given time. I think in this situation they need to figure out what is it about them that gives off the sexual vibe and turn it down some. When a man/woman run into situations that repeat consistently then the problem is not the people you date it's YOU.
KungFuJoe Posted July 7, 2013 Posted July 7, 2013 Well, I mean let's be honest here...unless you're the type to start rattling off your list of "conquests" on a first date, odds are whoever you're dating will have NO idea of your past. These "sexual past" topics are all moot. You can feel however you want to feel..but unless you require every single potential date to fill out a questionairre before you take them out, you won't ever find out. By the time you find out, it's too late. 3
Weezy1973 Posted July 7, 2013 Posted July 7, 2013 People you're the most compatible with will likely have similar pasts. If you'reattracted to people that don't have a similar a past, you might have to re-evaluate your values.
WisdomSeeker Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 Playing a little devil's advocate here, but I invite those who posted in the previous thread to give their solutions to what the other party should do regarding a hypothetical. No problem with judgements, just would like to see any other opinions regarding..... The ethical but admittedly more difficult solution would be to embrace the law of averages. She has allowed herself to be judged which I take to mean that she has been forthright and honest about her sexual past with every new suitor. She should maintain that transparency, and at some point she will likely encounter a mate for whom her sexual history is of no consequence. As acknowledged, it won't be the easiest of paths to travel. She will face a substantial amount of rejection before happening upon her gem, but her approach will remain morally sound (in that she isn't deceiving some poor fellow into a relationship built atop falsehoods). The unethical solution would be for her to lie about her past. In this, she may very well escape the consequences of her prior decisions at the cost of true intimacy within whatever relationship she establishes.
SmileFace Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 I should probably check out the other thread. However I usually get chastised for not having any relationship experience. Yet it is more than likely me projecting since it is something I am sensitive about. Yet, my past isn't really up for discussion. I have no problem with my sexual past. Granted I never been in a long term relationship. I am only guilty of holding on the unavailable guys too long. Rather than sleeping around.
BradJacobs Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 What the other person should do? Make a choice. Either I'm good enough to overlook whatever bothers her about my past or I'm not. It's her choice. I can't erase what I've done (not that I'd care to anyway).
RedRobin Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 Continuing on from the "past is the past" thread, let us say you accept that (as you should IMO) and you then allow yourself to be.....for lack of a better term and to be consistent, "judged" for it. Let us also say that this repeats itself consistently and consequently you find it extremely difficult to find someone who is attractive to you and also accepts your past at any point. This can manifest itself in the often talked about case of a woman/man who is/was promiscuous and finds it difficult to get into an LTR even though they may be faithful in such situations - and worse, may end up being treated solely as someone with whom only sex is on the table and nothing more, when they may wish for something more at the given time. On the flip side, an inexperienced man/woman may encounter a response that is just as discriminatory as nobody wants to take the chance on them. Playing a little devil's advocate here, but I invite those who posted in the previous thread to give their solutions to what the other party should do regarding a hypothetical. No problem with judgements, just would like to see any other opinions regarding..... He/she needs to consistently demonstrate behavior that coincides with the values and expectations of the people they hope to attract. Nobody is obliged to take someone's word for it. For example... If they have been promiscuous in the past, but want to attract someone who has not been promiscuous, then they need to not be promiscuous anymore... and do so for quite awhile. It would not be enough for me if a guy who was promiscuous decided to be monogamous for my sake. Nor would I be involved with someone who had a history of excess of any kind unless they had sufficiently demonstrated PRIOR TO DATING ME that this behavior had successfully been extinguished. Even the Department of Defense has a 10 year window on behaviors that might negate basic security clearances.
MrCastle Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 It comes down to trust. That's basically it. Some only trust when it's convenient. Some blindly trust. Some don't trust at all. It's that proper level of "I know that is who this person was, but I trust that is not how the person is."
tbf Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 I don't understand this thread, TW. There are more than enough people who advocate "Don't ask, don't tell, past is past", that partners shouldn't be lacking within same beliefs. No one deserves to date anyone. 1
Author ThaWholigan Posted July 8, 2013 Author Posted July 8, 2013 I don't understand this thread, TW. There are more than enough people who advocate "Don't ask, don't tell, past is past", that partners shouldn't be lacking within same beliefs. No one deserves to date anyone. It was more for cordial exchange more than anything. Thought the other thread was too heated and the underlying points of both sides were missed.
Eggplant Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 If a partner's person sexual past is important to a person, that's legitimate. If you date such a person who cares about your past, you should be honest. At the same time, your past is your private business. If you do not want to reveal it, you tell the person that you will not. I think it's also reasonable for somebody to want to wait to reveal personal or sensitive or embarrassing information until a bit of trust has been established. The person inquiring also has the right to cut off a relationship with somebody for not wanting to reveal the past in favor of somebody who will. None of the above is a matter of right or wrong, but of preferences. Lying is wrong. Also, denigrating a person's worth as a human being outside of relationship considerations for their personal choices that they have a right to make is wrong. 1
kaylan Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 Lying and tricking someone into a relationship is never a good solution. It breeds failure. Doesnt matter what aspects of your past you lie about, its just not good. Dating isnt easy for anyone. And most people know how hard it can sometimes be to find the right person for you, whether you were promiscuous before or not. 2
hppr Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 Continuing on from the "past is the past" thread, let us say you accept that (as you should IMO) and you then allow yourself to be.....for lack of a better term and to be consistent, "judged" for it. Let us also say that this repeats itself consistently and consequently you find it extremely difficult to find someone who is attractive to you and also accepts your past at any point. This can manifest itself in the often talked about case of a woman/man who is/was promiscuous and finds it difficult to get into an LTR even though they may be faithful in such situations - and worse, may end up being treated solely as someone with whom only sex is on the table and nothing more, when they may wish for something more at the given time. On the flip side, an inexperienced man/woman may encounter a response that is just as discriminatory as nobody wants to take the chance on them. Playing a little devil's advocate here, but I invite those who posted in the previous thread to give their solutions to what the other party should do regarding a hypothetical. No problem with judgements, just would like to see any other opinions regarding..... It's not the history so much as continued bad behaviors. Doesn't matter if you are talking promiscuity, laziness, drug habits, whatever. Another thing to consider is that people rarely change. What happens is that you consider those things and weigh them against the other things that are being offered.
Divasu Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 Playing a little devil's advocate here, but I invite those who posted in the previous thread to give their solutions to what the other party should do regarding a hypothetical. No problem with judgements, just would like to see any other opinions regarding..... Which hypothetical are you referring to... There's been like a kazillion in the past couple of days. Okay, I'll make up my own. No threesomes, no orgies, no cheating, no having an affair with someone's man/woman.
hppr Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 No threesomes, no orgies, no cheating, no having an affair with someone's man/woman. I've done a couple of those so I guess I'm out of the running. Kinda funny how you left out one-night-stands are those kosher? Serious question because it seems more and more today the 'cheap sex' with strangers is getting to be okay, just sex, whatever.
Divasu Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 I've done a couple of those so I guess I'm out of the running. 'Hypothetically' speaking, yes. I didn't make any conclusions though in my post. Kinda funny how you left out one-night-stands are those kosher? Serious question because it seems more and more today the 'cheap sex' with strangers is getting to be okay, just sex, whatever. I agree. I didn't list it, because I've engaged in it, once. Years ago. That's fine if someone doesn't want to date me because of it, as long as he doesn't use harsh disrespectful words to demean.
kaylan Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 The thinking is that lying about your sexual past somehow means your entire relationship is founded upon a lie and will ultimately fail. I'm not so sure I believe that. There are some lies which will definitely hurt a relationship in the long run but I don't think this is one of them. I completely agree that no one will know. This is a big reason why I don't flipping ask. How the hell would I know whether you're telling the truth or not? I don't care how well you think you know someone, people date and later marry people with all kinds of secrets -- some of them quite horrible -- yet they never know it. All those people think they know their partners quite well too. Sorry, but some of us are honest and seek the same in a mate. However you do give guys plenty of reason to avoid marrying with that post you made. The points you bring up are partly why Im not sure Ill end up there one day. I dont have time for liars, and its a shame so many folks do lie.
kaylan Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 (edited) ^This is crappy advice in my view. So basically we should just accept any mate because everyones capable of lying? Then i guess colleges should give everyone As because we dont know who is or isnt cheating on various portions of their work. Lets be real, the logic youre presenting isnt sound. Seems like some folks are hellbent on folks accepting people they dont really want as mates just because some folks are liars. Again, I repeat, some folks are honest (such as myself), and we seek honest mates. Many honest people exist out there. So just because some folks can lie to me, doesnt mean I should throw my desires out the window. Doesnt matter what you say about face value, it doesnt mean I have to throw away my standards and what I look for in a mate. Edited July 8, 2013 by kaylan
kaylan Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 Youre basically asking people dismiss things they arent comfortable with all because some people out there lie. Peoples hearts are open, and they are open to the person they truly want to be with. They want a real partner, not some pretender or liar.
kaylan Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 ^Your post is pointless though. It doesnt matter if you think someone will really know something or not. At the end of the day people want what they want in a partner, and they will seek that out. Let the liars lie, it doesnt mean people wont seek honest partners. No one is pressing people to share their past. For many people, sharing your past experiences is a natural part of becoming close to someone. I have no problem sharing my past, and plenty of women have no issue doing the same. Those are the women I will date.
kaylan Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 (edited) ^The question is MOOT though, because it doesnt change anyones dating decisions at all. Are you daffy? How hard is it to understand? Asking a question that doesnt matter and that doesnt change dating dynamics, adds nothing to the discussion. Heres a comparison. Nobody can prove or disprove supreme deities, but that doesnt stop some people from being religious and some from being atheists. Trying to enter an argument from ignorance into this discussion is blatantly dumb. Thats all your question is. Its an argument from ignorance with regards to the truth in a romantic relationship. That really has no practical place in a dating discussion. At the end of the day, your question, nor any possible answer to it, will change how anyone behaves in their dating life. The question you pose merely exists to exist. It offers no possible solution whatsoever. Edited July 8, 2013 by kaylan
kaylan Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 (edited) Read my last post. Theres your answer. Again, hypothetical arguments from ignorance add NOTHING to this discussion. They add nothing to any discussion regarding dating. And again, I dont lie about my past because Im not ashamed of it AT ALL. Im not that unique, and there are women out there who dont lie to someone they want to build a meaningful relationship with. Lets hope I can find such a woman. Women like you who crafts arguments around dishonesty are exactly why many men do not form connections with women and refuse to marry. Let it be known that if I met a supposedly nice girl who tried to craft arguments such as yours, that in of itself would be a read flag that would tell me not to date her, or to merely see her casually. I wouldnt make a big fuss, she would just be left wondering why things never moved forward with us. PS - Never have and never will cheat. Edited July 8, 2013 by kaylan
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