Why do some women provoke their man and try to get a rise out of him?

[M30USA]

Nay!

 

Keep trying...

 

Ok, you're saying I was at fault for my marriage? If that's the case, then it logically follows that there are zero marriages in the history of the world where a single party is at fault. By logic, you are saying that both parties are always at fault.

[tbf]

I saw a counselor post-divorce for 8 months. We discontinued because, in his opinion, he thought I was doing pretty well.

What did you learn about yourself and abusive relationship dynamics, during the 8 months?

[M30USA]

What did you learn about yourself and abusive relationship dynamics, during the 8 months?

 

I learned that I didn't fit into my ex's family or their little world for a variety of reasons: cultural, familial, etc. I didn't fit the mold. Yet there's nothing I can do about that. We also talked about how families of abusers typically are blind to the abuse they inflict and they always side with family no matter what. So he wasn't surprised by the fact that they didn't seem to think her assault, etc, was a big deal.

 

As far as what I can control, he advised me to not wait a long time (like he himself did) before considering moving on or remarrying.

[tbf]

I learned that I didn't fit into my ex's family or their little world for a variety of reasons: cultural, familial, etc. I didn't fit the mold. Yet there's nothing I can do about that. We also talked about how families of abusers typically are blind to the abuse they inflict and they always side with family no matter what. So he wasn't surprised by the fact that they didn't seem to think her assault, etc, was a big deal.

So what you learned was fault based by inference instead of learning about healthy relationship boundaries, how to assert them and how to learn to recognize abusive personalities sufficiently that you'd walk on first indication.

 

So what's to stop you from getting together with another abusive woman? Were you raised in an abusive family environment?

 

As far as what I can control, he advised me to not wait a long time (like he himself did) before considering moving on or remarrying.

It's been 8 months and you haven't moved on or remarried. This should indicate to you that more therapy is needed.

[pie2]

Ok, you're saying I was at fault for my marriage? If that's the case, then it logically follows that there are zero marriages in the history of the world where a single party is at fault. By logic, you are saying that both parties are always at fault.

 

I think this is assignment is going to take a liiiittle longer than I thought.

 

I hope you'll keep thinking about why I don't perceive you to be asking what you've contributed to the divorce (and all that led up to it).

 

I'm praying for you, and am hoping that each day brings you closer to the very best future that God has planned. (((hug)))

[M30USA]

I think this is assignment is going to take a liiiittle longer than I thought.

 

I hope you'll keep thinking about why I don't perceive you to be asking what you've contributed to the divorce (and all that led up to it).

 

I'm praying for you, and am hoping that each day brings you closer to the very best future that God has planned. (((hug)))

 

Look, I understand that all humans are imperfect. But if I understand what you're saying, you're implying that I should not have left a woman who has violent behavior with assault? Are you saying that in some way I am responsible for her actions when she does this? If that's what you're saying, then I'm sorry, Pie2, I gotta break paths with you on this one and we'll just have a friendly disagreement.

 

Anyway, thanks for your input, everybody. I think I'll trust the advice of my licensed therapist.

[pie2]

But if I understand what you're saying' date=' you're implying that I should not have left a woman who has violent behavior with assault? Are you saying that in some way I am responsible for her actions when she does this?[/quote']

 

You have misunderstood me completely.

 

 

 

I think Mme. Chaucer said it best...

 

...maybe some time down the road ...

[SweetiePie12]

This is what I dealt with in my marriage. I was constantly trying to live a life of peace. She was constantly trying to create drama

 

Constantly? No one does anything "constantly", so you're exaggerating.

[Eve]

I would still explore the Aspergers angle, even with seeing your counsellor for so long. Men who are diagnosed later in life usually will have learned some skills to compensate within social situations but these compensatory behaviours do not hold within intimate relatiionships. I would advise you to have a formal assessment to fully outrule or confirm where you are on the spectrum.

 

I am not wanting to call you an abuser but if you are further up on the spectrum you may have a blind side to emotions which will put you at greater risk of ignoring the emotional cues of others.

 

It could be that your wife really was intentionally abusive without you having little to do with it, only you know what you are like when you are 'at peace'. It may be that this state is not conducive for an intimate relationship as you may be too overly indulgent in things you prefer. This is a massive marker for Aspergers and is why I responded to you as such. It could also mean that you were not that interested in her.. idk, what does it mean?

 

For congruence sake, I can only advise that you do the suggested reading at very least and be assessed to fully know what is going on with you.

 

Are you willing to do the suggested reading?

 

Take care,

Eve x

[M30USA]

It could be that your wife really was intentionally abusive without you having little to do with it, only you know what you are like when you are 'at peace'.

 

I think that's the case. When you want to play your guitar at the end of a day (with no housework, etc, needing to be done) and your wife comes into the room and smashes the guitar to pieces, I think it's fair to say that I didn't cause the problem. But, alas, someone will still say that I was most likely neglecting my wife because, surely, a wife would never do that if she were getting her needs met. To these people I would say you have a fundamental misunderstanding of human nature. Finally, lest someone would say I deprived her of affection and attention, please be aware that my wife and her family admitted that she is not very affectionate. My ex wife, herself, admitted that I am actually more affectionate than she is. I think the "love language" my wife spoke was service. She expected her husband to serve her--specifically in the form of manual labor like house remodeling and building, etc. This is because her father was this way and, not to be stereotyping, but they are a Hispanic family so this might be ingrained in them more so than mine. (These are their words, not mine.) Anyway, since I had some back pain problems I didn't feel like I could live up to this manual labor love language. So for that I suppose I am at fault.

Edited July 6, 2013 by M30USA

[pureinheart]

For the record, I've never been diagnosed w/ Asperger's. I have merely made comments that my over-analytical thinking and tendency to focus on a few areas of interests resembles Asperger's. Other than this trait, I lack all the others including physical clumsiness, social impairment (especially at work), etc. Actually I'm quite athletic. So that goes against the traits. Plus I took an unofficial Asperger's test and had low score. Additionally, I have never abused my children and/or my spouse. As far as my wife's complaints about my parenting style, that is unfounded since CPS has ruled me out twice and, given the history of both my ex-wife and her mother calling MOST of the male figures in their lives "abusive", I think it's just another time they're crying wolf. The faults that I have readily admitted to in my marriage was a porn problem. Not anything pertaining to Asperger's-like traits.

 

Finally, I have FLAT-OUT asked my counselor an open-ended question, "Do you think I have Asperger's Syndrome?" His response was that he sees no strong traits and the likelihood is very low. For the record, I went to him WEEKLY for 8 months. I think he got to know me pretty well. My ex-wife, on the other hand, saw a counselor post-divorce for a whopping 2 visits and then discontinued.

 

You know M30, I really questioned your assertion that you had Asperger's in a couple of posts that you've made in the past...thanks for this clarification. It seriously didn't line up with your communication.

 

Hey, I'm going to be straight up with you, and this isn't meant to offend you...sure hope I can word this right:o

 

I believe 100 and 5M% that your wife was abusive to you, and I hope this isn't transferred onto the kids.

 

Ok, here's where I hope my wording is cool...could there be issues with women in general because of this? I've noticed that you have an easier time communicating with the guys even if it's a heated discussion.

 

I used to have issues with men and didn't know it until releasing that anger all over these boards, and I thank the men for giving me a free pass on that one.

 

You know, I used to think this was a gender issue, but found it isn't, it's a people issue as I've had problems with women in the past also. All of that is gone now and realize it's personality defects, some worse than others, and I'm not above reproach either...basically I try to avoid those with severe abusive verbal communication. Also want to say thanks to the women for that free pass because I bitched about women too.

 

IMO both you and your wife have been abused prior to your marriage...you would have to confirm if there was past abuse in your life, but I know for sure your wife was, based on her actions.

[pie2]

She expected her husband to serve her--specifically in the form of manual labor like house remodeling and building, etc. This is because her father was this way and, not to be stereotyping, but they are a Hispanic family so this might be ingrained in them more so than mine. (These are their words, not mine.) Anyway, since I had some back pain problems I didn't feel like I could live up to this manual labor love language. So for that I suppose I am at fault.

 

In the beginning, what motivated you to marry someone you seem so incompatible with?

[M30USA]

You know M30, I really questioned your assertion that you had Asperger's in a couple of posts that you've made in the past...thanks for this clarification. It seriously didn't line up with your communication.

 

Hey, I'm going to be straight up with you, and this isn't meant to offend you...sure hope I can word this right:o

 

I believe 100 and 5M% that your wife was abusive to you, and I hope this isn't transferred onto the kids.

 

Ok, here's where I hope my wording is cool...could there be issues with women in general because of this? I've noticed that you have an easier time communicating with the guys even if it's a heated discussion.

 

I used to have issues with men and didn't know it until releasing that anger all over these boards, and I thank the men for giving me a free pass on that one.

 

You know, I used to think this was a gender issue, but found it isn't, it's a people issue as I've had problems with women in the past also. All of that is gone now and realize it's personality defects, some worse than others, and I'm not above reproach either...basically I try to avoid those with severe abusive verbal communication. Also want to say thanks to the women for that free pass because I bitched about women too.

 

IMO both you and your wife have been abused prior to your marriage...you would have to confirm if there was past abuse in your life, but I know for sure your wife was, based on her actions.

 

My wife wasn't abused, as far as I know. However, I've read professional literature on BPD and it says that people can develop it even with no history of receiving abuse. It can actually happen from being neglected and--get this--spoiled by parents and not shown proper boundaries as children.

[M30USA]

In the beginning, what motivated you to marry someone you seem so incompatible with?

 

Ok, this is embarrassing, but I met her online. :/

 

She lived pretty far away. I only saw her every few months during our dating phase which lasted about 18 months. But we talked online incessantly. I guess you never really know a person until you live with them. My mom said to not feel bad because you can make the same mistake with a person who lives right within your hometown. You never know a person until you live with them. I guess that's true.

[pie2]

She lived pretty far away. I only saw her every few months during our dating phase which lasted about 18 months. But we talked online incessantly.

 

I agree that you cannot really know someone if your only perception is via a long-distance relationship.

 

Do you accept your part in marrying someone you didn't know all that well, in terms of seeing her during the hard times and seeing first hand how she deals with adversity?

 

My mom said to not feel bad because you can make the same mistake with a person who lives right within your hometown. You never know a person until you live with them. I guess that's true.

I think you get to know someone A LOT more after living together.

 

But, when in a close relationship, spending lots of time together and forced to confront actual challenges, I think you can know someone well enough to determine if s/he is marriage material or not...without living together.

 

IMO, God's plan is to not live together in sin prior to marriage!

 

Ok, this is embarrassing, but I met her online. :/

I don't think meeting people online is embarrassing . Edited August 28, 2013 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[M30USA]

In the beginning, what motivated you to marry someone you seem so incompatible with?

 

That's the thing. I didn't know until I lived with her that she and her parents would literally plan my house renovations, come over, and I'd literally be forced to work. I had no problem with the flooring as it was. It looked great and wasn't dirty. Yet her family puts high priority on making constant home renovations. I didn't realize that I'd be forced to assimilate into this--especially since her family was right down the road. Meanwhile MY family and MY culture was forced by the wayside and it played no part in our identity. I felt like I was lost. Everything about who I am and what I value was cast aside. I was the minority, the odd one out in her hometown. And to not go along with their whole lifestyle is to seem like the bad guy, the difficult one.

 

I guess I finally got to the point where I didn't care what they think. Not in a bad way. But I just realized I can't live my life to make people happy who don't even value the things I value. It's a recipe for heartache and exhaustion.

[pureinheart]

My wife wasn't abused, as far as I know. However, I've read professional literature on BPD and it says that people can develop it even with no history of receiving abuse. It can actually happen from being neglected and--get this--spoiled by parents and not shown proper boundaries as children.

 

Ah Ha! I have 2 cousins like that. They were left to their own with little discipline. M30, they turned out to be very self-destructive. One just passed away at only 55 due to liver failure, she was a hardcore alcoholic.

 

Now your wifes behavior makes complete sense. Spoiled rotten brats are IMPOSSIBLE to live with.

[pureinheart]

Ok, this is embarrassing, but I met her online. :/

 

She lived pretty far away. I only saw her every few months during our dating phase which lasted about 18 months. But we talked online incessantly. I guess you never really know a person until you live with them. My mom said to not feel bad because you can make the same mistake with a person who lives right within your hometown. You never know a person until you live with them. I guess that's true.

 

This makes sense. I know of a few successful online relationships, in fact I bet it's very common today. Nothing to be embarrassed about. For one that doesn't do clubs or bars, the next best thing is online, right?

[M30USA]

Ah Ha! I have 2 cousins like that. They were left to their own with little discipline. M30, they turned out to be very self-destructive. One just passed away at only 55 due to liver failure, she was a hardcore alcoholic.

 

Now your wifes behavior makes complete sense. Spoiled rotten brats are IMPOSSIBLE to live with.

 

Her parents, in addition to this, expressed disapproval with my parenting style. They thought I was too strict on my kids. But the proof is in the pudding. Everywhere I go with my kids, I routinely get comments like, "How do you get them to act like that?"

 

Unfortunately the court judge required that neither myself or my ex is allowed to use corporal discipline anymore. This is probably because of the abuse allegations that she threw at me and the judge probably wanted to "play it safe". But my ex is the one who pushed for this. She views spanking as abusive (kind of ironic since she assaulted me a few times). I think this deprives me of my right to discipline my children as I see fit. Plus it goes against Scripture. But we are living in a world where soon spanking will be criminal.

 

But spanking aside, I think there's a bigger picture. Her parents and family are way too lax on discipline. Yes, let kids make kid mistakes if they're honest and due to immaturity. But do not under any circumstance let your kids get away with crap when they KNOW what they're doing. Otherwise you will breed a monster.

Edited July 7, 2013 by M30USA

[pureinheart]

Her parents, in addition to this, expressed disapproval with my parenting style. They thought I was too strict on my kids. But the proof is in the pudding. Everywhere I go with my kids, I routinely get comments like, "How do you get them to act like that?"

 

Unfortunately the court judge required that neither myself or my ex is allowed to use corporal discipline anymore. This is probably because of the abuse allegations that she threw at me and the judge probably wanted to "play it safe". But my ex is the one who pushed for this. She views spanking as abusive (kind of ironic since she assaulted me a few times). I think this deprives me of my right to discipline my children as I see fit. Plus it goes against Scripture. But we are living in a world where soon spanking will be criminal.

 

But spanking aside, I think there's a bigger picture. Her parents and family are way too lax on discipline. Yes, let kids make kid mistakes if they're honest and due to immaturity. But do not under any circumstance let your kids get away with crap when they KNOW what they're doing. Otherwise you will breed a monster.

 

I was doing some stuff around my house, that's how I commune with God. So God and I were into some deep stuff (I don't hear Him audibly, but in my heart). I had you and your kids on my heart and told God of my concerns and He said to pray, He also said the kids have you and even though it may "seem" she will have the greater influence, in all actuality you do...so I felt good after that.

 

M30, you have already, by your kids well behavior, instilled in them the truth (lol). I didn't have to use corporal punishment with my kids after they were about 7. I did however slap my daughter when she was 15, she started to back talk me and that is unacceptable. I never once back talked my parents.

 

Well, you can see her mentality with calling you "abusive", being too strict with the kids, yet is unable to see her very real abusive nature. I was strict with my kids also, and I took the time to explain things to them...lol, the "punishment" was a lecture after they became teens. They hated that:D because they knew I was probing their brains and picking up on their body language.

 

You know, there's different ways to deal with various crimes...like my daughter was caught with a lighter at school. She lied and said she was starting the grass on fire...well, I took her to the fire station and had a fireman counsel her on "fires". Then she was required (by me) to write a 2 page essay on fire safety and the dangers of playing with fire and take it back to the fire station. One must get creative:D- making kids face what they've done (older ones) tends to work.

 

You sound creative so I don't see any problems and God assured me you have the greater influence, which spiritually speaking, that makes sense.

 

I get this feeling that your kids will eventually live with you. You are stable. Even with my very unstable life (I'm not inferring you are "unstable" by my story), for some reason I was extremely stable in many things. My household runs smooth and is in order...in fact so much so my grandkids want to live with me! I wasn't perfect, but tended to every need concerning my kids and grandkids, they weren't put off. This is why I strongly feel your kids will want to live with you.

[M30USA]

I was doing some stuff around my house, that's how I commune with God. So God and I were into some deep stuff (I don't hear Him audibly, but in my heart). I had you and your kids on my heart and told God of my concerns and He said to pray, He also said the kids have you and even though it may "seem" she will have the greater influence, in all actuality you do...so I felt good after that.

 

M30, you have already, by your kids well behavior, instilled in them the truth (lol). I didn't have to use corporal punishment with my kids after they were about 7. I did however slap my daughter when she was 15, she started to back talk me and that is unacceptable. I never once back talked my parents.

 

Well, you can see her mentality with calling you "abusive", being too strict with the kids, yet is unable to see her very real abusive nature. I was strict with my kids also, and I took the time to explain things to them...lol, the "punishment" was a lecture after they became teens. They hated that:D because they knew I was probing their brains and picking up on their body language.

 

You know, there's different ways to deal with various crimes...like my daughter was caught with a lighter at school. She lied and said she was starting the grass on fire...well, I took her to the fire station and had a fireman counsel her on "fires". Then she was required (by me) to write a 2 page essay on fire safety and the dangers of playing with fire and take it back to the fire station. One must get creative:D- making kids face what they've done (older ones) tends to work.

 

You sound creative so I don't see any problems and God assured me you have the greater influence, which spiritually speaking, that makes sense.

 

I get this feeling that your kids will eventually live with you. You are stable. Even with my very unstable life (I'm not inferring you are "unstable" by my story), for some reason I was extremely stable in many things. My household runs smooth and is in order...in fact so much so my grandkids want to live with me! I wasn't perfect, but tended to every need concerning my kids and grandkids, they weren't put off. This is why I strongly feel your kids will want to live with you.

 

Wow, thanks for the great advice and encouragement'

[Eve]

What will most tellling is when you enter into a new relationship.

 

Take care,

Eve x

[M30USA]

What will most tellling is when you enter into a new relationship.

 

Take care,

Eve x

 

I suppose. But I'm pretty content single and I might choose to remain unmarried from here on out.

[John316C]

women constantly test men and provoke them even till the point of violence to try to get him to assert himself OVER her. they want the man to be dominant. they will try these things to ignite their passion for the man or get him to change into what his natural role is - dominant.

 

young ppl will test their parents, if the parents fold, the child will not respect their parents. the child will probably not realize what their doing, so getting angry will create more of the same problem.

 

dogs will test their owners, if the owner is not the alpha the dog will not respect the owner fully.

 

women will test men to see if he is dominant over her. women dont want to be with a person who is weaker than them. they also dont feel attraction to them either.

 

ppl in life will constantly test you to see if you are dominant over them if you seem dominant or of higher status.

 

ppl will always test their ruler, if he isnt dominant they will not respect him

 

man is dominant women is submissive.

[M30USA]

women constantly test men and provoke them even till the point of violence to try to get him to assert himself OVER her. they want the man to be dominant. they will try these things to ignite their passion for the man or get him to change into what his natural role is - dominant.

 

young ppl will test their parents, if the parents fold, the child will not respect their parents. the child will probably not realize what their doing, so getting angry will create more of the same problem.

 

dogs will test their owners, if the owner is not the alpha the dog will not respect the owner fully.

 

women will test men to see if he is dominant over her. women dont want to be with a person who is weaker than them. they also dont feel attraction to them either.

 

ppl in life will constantly test you to see if you are dominant over them if you seem dominant or of higher status.

 

ppl will always test their ruler, if he isnt dominant they will not respect him

 

man is dominant women is submissive.

 

I understand the concept. I guess it's just a matter of degrees. Some women think they need to drop a nuke on their man. I guess there's a lid for every pot. Some men are okay with women like this. I tried. I can't handle it. Call me a weakling. I can't handle it.

 

And, secondly, a woman shouldn't have to test anything. Why can't she just learn from real life? The fact that a woman would need to drive a man crazy and even assault him "to see if he's dominant" is more psychotic to me than normal relationship behavior.