Winkypop Posted July 5, 2013 Posted July 5, 2013 Married for 20+ years. Sex is so so as I get the feeling she does it more out of obligation than anything else unless she's had a couple of drinks. Lately I only get a hug or a kiss if I initiate, and even then, it seems a bit forced. I've already asked her about this twice and each time she completely denies anything is wrong. I don't want to pester her anymore about that. Besides, I'm wondering now if indeed I'm just being overly sensitive .. I can't be sure. Anyway, it's really bugging me. How can I get some kind of resolution?
GorillaTheater Posted July 5, 2013 Posted July 5, 2013 A wise man who used to post on this board posted this on another site: "In an LTR the ideal emotional temperature is one that BOTH people are comfortable with. Couples often “fight” for decades over the “thermostat” setting. He likes it really warm and constantly shows and wants to be shown love. She is likes it cooler and dislikes constantly being barraged with “love” as it makes her feel emotionally crowded. She starts seeing him as “clingy and insecure” and she withdraws. He clings harder, she pulls back further feeling ever more crowded. Sex dies and he frantically tries to raise the temperature using an ever increasing stream of love. She loses respect and ends it or has an affair. When you overheat someone with too much love, THEIR natural reaction is to try to “cool off” by giving you less love and less OR by provoking conflict to get you to go BACK UP. And they often reduce/stop having sex with you because when they already feel overheated/claustrophobic the LAST thing they want is the intense closeness of sex. Below is an example of badly mismatched thermostat settings. The WARM/HOT partner wants to “raise” the temperature so they: 1. Are almost always saying ILY or IAILWY first 2. Typically initiate calls/texts/emails when apart/one or both are at work 3. Make “peace” after a fight even when your partner clearly wronged you 4. Walk around visibly angry/VERY angry after a fight (this comes across as “I am furious that you – the person I LOVE SO MUCH – is doing x,y,z to ME 5. Anxiously keep trying to make up when you were in the wrong because you cannot bear having them angry with you 6. Are mostly/always initiating physical contact (hugs, kisses, touches, groping) 7. When anxious you initiate “talks” about the R, typically to “fix” them/their behavior 8. Do MORE, sometimes WAY MORE than your fair share of housework 9. Put their needs ahead of yours whenever there is a priority conflict 10. Are constantly seeking their approval 11. Show anxiety or fear when they are angry/frustrated with you 12. Initiate sex when their body language radiates a “lack” of interest/desire, pout/sulk get angry when they tactfully decline sex The COOL partner wants less warmth so they: 1. React irritably/with hostility to HOT behaviors such as: a. Discussions about the R b. Requests for sex. An irritated “NO” when asked for sex is an attempt to throw a bucket of ice water on a painfully overheated moment 2. Often behave more and more disrespectfully to their warmer partner and often steadily deprioritize both the partner and the R hoping to lower the temperature 3. Provoke their partner to create conflict and space The Warm partner thinks they are repeatedly conveying “I LOVE YOU” with all this activity. The Cooler partner actually hears it as a question, repeated over and over ad nauseum: “Do YOU love ME”? Imagine if you replaced every loving act by literally asking “Do you love me”? How well do you think THAT would fly. The core message this thermostat mismatch sends to the cooler partner is: I DON’T DESERVE YOU. And over time your behavior convinces them you are right." So, what to do? Lower your emotional thermostat. Be funny, calm, rational, but partially disconnect the emotional hose to your wife. Be okay unto yourself, and don't let your mental and emotional well-being hinge on what your wife does or doesn't do. Let up on the physical contact, but not in a hostile or patently passive-aggressive way. View the results from "50,000 feet", i.e. without emotional involvement. Whatever you see will be good/useful information. 3
Author Winkypop Posted July 5, 2013 Author Posted July 5, 2013 A wise man who used to post on this board posted this on another site: "In an LTR the ideal emot6ional temperature is one that BOTH people are comfortable with. Couples often “fight” for decades over the “thermostat” setting. He likes it really warm and constantly shows and wants to be shown love. She is likes it cooler and dislikes constantly being barraged with “love” as it makes her feel emotionally crowded. She starts seeing him as “clingy and insecure” and she withdraws. He clings harder, she pulls back further feeling ever more crowded. Sex dies and he frantically tries to raise the temperature using an ever increasing stream of love. She loses respect and ends it or has an affair. When you overheat someone with too much love, THEIR natural reaction is to try to “cool off” by giving you less love and less OR by provoking conflict to get you to go BACK UP. And they often reduce/stop having sex with you because when they already feel overheated/claustrophobic the LAST thing they want is the intense closeness of sex. Below is an example of badly mismatched thermostat settings. The WARM/HOT partner wants to “raise” the temperature so they: 1. Are almost always saying ILY or IAILWY first 2. Typically initiate calls/texts/emails when apart/one or both are at work 3. Make “peace” after a fight even when your partner clearly wronged you 4. Walk around visibly angry/VERY angry after a fight (this comes across as “I am furious that you – the person I LOVE SO MUCH – is doing x,y,z to ME 5. Anxiously keep trying to make up when you were in the wrong because you cannot bear having them angry with you 6. Are mostly/always initiating physical contact (hugs, kisses, touches, groping) 7. When anxious you initiate “talks” about the R, typically to “fix” them/their behavior 8. Do MORE, sometimes WAY MORE than your fair share of housework 9. Put their needs ahead of yours whenever there is a priority conflict 10. Are constantly seeking their approval 11. Show anxiety or fear when they are angry/frustrated with you 12. Initiate sex when their body language radiates a “lack” of interest/desire, pout/sulk get angry when they tactfully decline sex The COOL partner wants less warmth so they: 1. React irritably/with hostility to HOT behaviors such as: a. Discussions about the R b. Requests for sex. An irritated “NO” when asked for sex is an attempt to throw a bucket of ice water on a painfully overheated moment 2. Often behave more and more disrespectfully to their warmer partner and often steadily deprioritize both the partner and the R hoping to lower the temperature 3. Provoke their partner to create conflict and space The Warm partner thinks they are repeatedly conveying “I LOVE YOU” with all this activity. The Cooler partner actually hears it as a question, repeated over and over ad nauseum: “Do YOU love ME”? Imagine if you replaced every loving act by literally asking “Do you love me”? How well do you think THAT would fly. The core message this thermostat mismatch sends to the cooler partner is: I DON’T DESERVE YOU. And over time your behavior convinces them you are right." So, what to do? Lower your emotional thermostat. Be funny, calm, rational, but partially disconnect the emotional hose to your wife. Be okay unto yourself, and don't let your mental and emotional well-being hinge on what your wife does or doesn't do. Let up on the physical contact, but not in a hostile or patently passive-aggressive way. View the results from "50,000 feet", i.e. without emotional involvement. Whatever you see will be good/useful information.Good info. Thanks. 1
GorillaTheater Posted July 5, 2013 Posted July 5, 2013 Married almost 30 years, Winky. A hell of alot of us have Been There, Done That. You'd think that after so long we can just relax and be comfortable without having to go through the "guaging the relationship" BS. Not so. Not at all. 1
It-is-what-it-is. Posted July 5, 2013 Posted July 5, 2013 Assuming there is no other reason (infidelity, illness, depression). Cause that changes things...women and men romance (warm up) differently. A woman needs warming up all day... Not necessarily flowers and gifts, but... Flirty glances, hand holding, KISSING - outside the bedroom, taking out the trash, filling my car with gas (I am not kidding), take her on a date YOU PLAN. Don't push for sex until you have a couple days of romance under your belt. Men don't. (Usually) Hey we girls talk. I told my husband once, "you cannot ignore me for 12 hours and then expect me to be all frisky once we are in bed" Assuming there is nothing like the list at the top, start putting good feelings in her love bank. Read the "5 love languages" together if possible.
Silver_Lining Posted July 5, 2013 Posted July 5, 2013 How can I get some kind of resolution? Oh so true and one of the hardest things to work with, I feel the pain all too real. There are a few very basic and primary needs that EVERY individual needs on one level or another. Emotional Connection Spiritual Connection Physical Connection Intellectual Connection When any one or rather in so many cases there becomes or has been a deficit there is natural and very REAL frustration that occurs. The way I see it and others please feel free to chime in - is that we as individuals are all wired differently from one another (go figure huh LoL) One person may have a need for more "Physical Connection" in the form of hugs, snuggling, kisses or holding hands... Whatever it may be. The other person may have a different idea as to the amount of "Physical Connection" or any of the other items listed above. The challenge, heartache and pain usually come from the difference in the way each of these items are viewed, treated and shared with one another. Communication is always the KEY and is absolutely essential in conveying and sharing what the expectations are as well as the need to fill those expectations. To many times - and sadly this happens before "Tying The Knot" we tend to be caught up in the infatuation and thrill of the chase. Once married life begins and more often than not the "male" in the relationship who has now "won the prize" so to speak begins to relax in the relationship and begin the day to day grind of life - Once all things settle and over time people do change, grow and develop. When the core needs listed then become even more apparent. The frustration as well as the struggle is not exactly the differences in those items but rather the distance between the expectations between each individual that lead to the frustration. For example: If one individual (lets say on a scale of 1-10) loves to engage in intellectual conversation and derives a great feeling of closeness and feeling of being understood, loved and cherished as a result and operates on say a level 7 in that... then the partner who does not enjoy so much or understand the need and then operates on a level 2 - the distance between (a 5 in this case) becomes the level of frustration. Going down the list and simple math can show the results with the total only being something that you or I can gauge the severity of in the relationship overall and what that means in moving forward determine or rather can help determine a plan of action moving forward IF both are willing to: Communicate Understand the need Make Concessions Grow and Learn Together Respect one another Otherwise that difference in expectation and need to feel loved as a result will ALWAYS produce a feeling of frustration that can and more than likely will erode the relation and breakdown even further communication which will ultimately lead to more frustration. So for instance: Emotional Connection - for one it may be a 9 and the other a 5 Spiritual Connection - for one it may be a 7 and the other an 8 Physical Connection - for one it may be a 8 and the other a 4 Intellectual Connection - for one it may be a 7 and the other a 2 Overall ending up with a difference of 14 across the board. Well, what does that mean? Only you and the other person can weigh the difference and decide what is and is not workable. Obviously it goes without saying that the lower the number (and we all know and have seen couples who appear to be "soul mates" etc) Simply in my mind have a natural understanding and living within a much closer realm of what the expectations are with themselves and each other. Some relations come naturally - some require much more work. Why do we fall in love? How well do we know the person we are with? How honest are we with ourselves? How honest are we with our partner? Maybe, most important is - Are we willing to change? If changing means we lower a "needed" expectation to "stick it out" does that work for us? Typically, from experience I have found that the "change" that is most productive and by far more valuable is NOT when we lower expectations but rather lift and grow expectations out of love, respect, understanding and adoration for the one we are with. My thoughts anyway based on having suffered and felt the pain on both ends of the spectrum. 1
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