Got it Posted July 6, 2013 Posted July 6, 2013 I'm not exactly a BS. Maybe, I'm in a strange situation. I'm divorced, never been involved in an affair, my x husband didn't have an affair, we split amicably and co-parent our son, my long term relationship after divorce (10years ish) didn't involve any infidelity. So you can imagine my surprise when my current boyfriend (live together) cheated on me a bunch of times using wonderful services such as ashley madison and craigslist-and has recently decided to start attending Sex Addicts Ananomous meetings because he claims to love me. I am in the process of getting therapy and figuring out what i am going to do about this crazy situation, but i find that while I am shocked and hurt and all that, i am also fascinated in this whole world of things i never really paid attention to and the complex dynamics that come into play when people educating myself on all things infidelity, sex addiction, theory of relationships, polyamory, swinging, porn, you name it i have been reading books on it in between my attempts to heal, practical decisions about what to do with the recovering sex addict living in my house who would like to reconcile, and oh yeah regular life and work and all that. So I really am just curious- I really think this guy has absolutely zero clue how much he has just turned my brain inside out- and I was wondering if it was any different for men who had affairs because of love, not one night stands for sex. I figured you ladies would know them the best. (((((Better)))))) I wanted to say I am sorry for the pain you are going through. I think one good book for you/him is "After the Affair". Does he own any responsibility of his actions? I think it is very analytical and pragmatic of you to look at it from different angles but I am not sure if it is going to give you the information you might be seeking. We each do things for different reasons and his are his own. Whether he actually ever owns his reasoning and owns his responsibility towards your pain is up to him. I would suspect if this has been a pattern for him, if this is not a new proclivity of his that this is not something unique to you, this is how he approaches love, sex, and sexual relationships. But you know that his actions don't define you, right? It is not a reflection on you? ((((Better))))))
Author Betterthanthis13 Posted July 6, 2013 Author Posted July 6, 2013 Truthfully He was disgusting. Did it truly enter his head on how detrimental it would be to her..YES. He said it would destroy her. But he did it anyhow, he even laughed at the excuses he made. Knowing how it would hurt her didn't change his actions and who would ever truly know if he cared at all. Fully aware of the pain and enjoying it- sounds like another sociopath. My heart goes out to you. I think being involved with people like that takes a little piece of our soul with them when we realize who they really are.
Author Betterthanthis13 Posted July 6, 2013 Author Posted July 6, 2013 (((((Better)))))) I wanted to say I am sorry for the pain you are going through. I think one good book for you/him is "After the Affair". Does he own any responsibility of his actions? I think it is very analytical and pragmatic of you to look at it from different angles but I am not sure if it is going to give you the information you might be seeking. We each do things for different reasons and his are his own. Whether he actually ever owns his reasoning and owns his responsibility towards your pain is up to him. I would suspect if this has been a pattern for him, if this is not a new proclivity of his that this is not something unique to you, this is how he approaches love, sex, and sexual relationships. But you know that his actions don't define you, right? It is not a reflection on you? ((((Better)))))) Thanks for the book reccomendation, I will add it to the stack. I think my bank is going to call me soon about suspicious activity at barnes and noble and amazon.com Maybe I am weird, I discussed this with my therapist yesterday, but I have never felt like any of this was my fault. Not even for a second can i blame his gross, dangerous behavior on anything i did. We haven't even been together that long, not married, no kids, Im attractive, in good shape physically, healthy sex drive, open minded, Im not a super bitch.... And even if I was out of shape, bad at sex, and bitchy I'd STILL feel like its all on him not me, break up first then go do whatever you want, sex up all the women on the east coast if it makes you happy, leave me out of it.... I understand that a lot of BS wonder what they did wrong or what is wrong with them and lash out at OW's. I don't know if I was put in the position of being a BS where my husband fell in love with another woman and carried on a long term clandestine affair and I discovered it how I would react. Of what it would feel like to fall in love with a married man. These are all new concepts to me. Obviously I knew all this stuff happened, but I never gave it much thought, just dismissed it as "cheating is always wrong" because I never was faced with examining the issues closer and the choices people make. I like to look at different angles and completely different situations that have to do with the same overall topic I'm faced with to give my brain a rest from whats going on in my own life, this whole sex addiction thing can be overwhelming and the information that comes with it with the 12 step groups and such feels a bit cultish to me... So I am arming myself with knowledge. Dan Savage has a particularly interesting view on infidelity that I'm reading about today. Supposedly sex addiction (or compulsion- I don't think it's an addiction at all, it's not classified as an actual addiction in the DSM book for psychiatrists) is treatable and since my boyfriend has been not "acting out" for over a year without being diagnosed or treated, his therapist thinks that means it shows a very strong internal resolve on his part to overcome this problem he has had for many years and develop the necessary tools to have a true intimate relationship with me. He says that's what he wants. I am just taking it day by day. I'm not sure I'm buying any of it. Part of me thinks a guy that ever had the capacity to do what he's done will always have the desire to do it again. Part of me believes that people can change if they really want to (but I know change only comes from within) Either way I am learning a lot about myself and meeting a lot of nice and interesting new people along the way, even if it is just in therapists offices, support groups and on the Internet I know that at the moment I am leaning towards distancing myself from him, and moving on with my life. I am going to try to do that with compassion and care. It's tricky, we live together and my heart is not 100 % set in splitting up. He's cute. He sleeps in my bed. I want to cuddle with him. It's very confusing. It would basically take a miraculous transformation on his part-be able to solidly show me some kind of real proof of change, no snake oil smoke and mirrors. No leap of faith on my part. I can not imagine anything he could do to show me that, so.... Each day I try to distance myself a little more, make myself a little stronger so that when the day comes I can move on to the next adventure in life peacefully.
skylarblue Posted July 6, 2013 Posted July 6, 2013 I don't know if xMM did or not (I'm hard pressed to believe that anyone wouldn't), but what I do know is he didn't/doesn't care. He's never acted with guilt, regret, or remorse (and stated he had none for the A) and never expressed compassion or sympathy for his W's. Think of some of worse/ behaviors one could do the BS and you pretty much have him. Even on/after dday, after witnessing her pain for himself, he chose to continue the A and amplify his behavior. The only time I felt he showed even the tiniest bit of compassion for her was from the expression on his face when he relayed her asking if it was her best friend. When he answered no, I kinda got the feeling that he felt bad that she was thinking that. But that's just my opinion. Honestly, I don't quite understand how he relates to her in the way that he does.
Pierre Posted July 7, 2013 Posted July 7, 2013 I don't know if xMM did or not (I'm hard pressed to believe that anyone wouldn't), but what I do know is he didn't/doesn't care. He's never acted with guilt, regret, or remorse (and stated he had none for the A) and never expressed compassion or sympathy for his W's. Think of some of worse/ behaviors one could do the BS and you pretty much have him. Even on/after dday, after witnessing her pain for himself, he chose to continue the A and amplify his behavior. The only time I felt he showed even the tiniest bit of compassion for her was from the expression on his face when he relayed her asking if it was her best friend. When he answered no, I kinda got the feeling that he felt bad that she was thinking that. But that's just my opinion. Honestly, I don't quite understand how he relates to her in the way that he does. He lacks empathy. I suggest you look up what kind of people lack empathy. I wish you good luck. 1
Got it Posted July 7, 2013 Posted July 7, 2013 Thanks for the book reccomendation, I will add it to the stack. I think my bank is going to call me soon about suspicious activity at barnes and noble and amazon.com Maybe I am weird, I discussed this with my therapist yesterday, but I have never felt like any of this was my fault. Not even for a second can i blame his gross, dangerous behavior on anything i did. We haven't even been together that long, not married, no kids, Im attractive, in good shape physically, healthy sex drive, open minded, Im not a super bitch.... And even if I was out of shape, bad at sex, and bitchy I'd STILL feel like its all on him not me, break up first then go do whatever you want, sex up all the women on the east coast if it makes you happy, leave me out of it.... I understand that a lot of BS wonder what they did wrong or what is wrong with them and lash out at OW's. I don't know if I was put in the position of being a BS where my husband fell in love with another woman and carried on a long term clandestine affair and I discovered it how I would react. Of what it would feel like to fall in love with a married man. These are all new concepts to me. Obviously I knew all this stuff happened, but I never gave it much thought, just dismissed it as "cheating is always wrong" because I never was faced with examining the issues closer and the choices people make. I like to look at different angles and completely different situations that have to do with the same overall topic I'm faced with to give my brain a rest from whats going on in my own life, this whole sex addiction thing can be overwhelming and the information that comes with it with the 12 step groups and such feels a bit cultish to me... So I am arming myself with knowledge. Dan Savage has a particularly interesting view on infidelity that I'm reading about today. Supposedly sex addiction (or compulsion- I don't think it's an addiction at all, it's not classified as an actual addiction in the DSM book for psychiatrists) is treatable and since my boyfriend has been not "acting out" for over a year without being diagnosed or treated, his therapist thinks that means it shows a very strong internal resolve on his part to overcome this problem he has had for many years and develop the necessary tools to have a true intimate relationship with me. He says that's what he wants. I am just taking it day by day. I'm not sure I'm buying any of it. Part of me thinks a guy that ever had the capacity to do what he's done will always have the desire to do it again. Part of me believes that people can change if they really want to (but I know change only comes from within) Either way I am learning a lot about myself and meeting a lot of nice and interesting new people along the way, even if it is just in therapists offices, support groups and on the Internet I know that at the moment I am leaning towards distancing myself from him, and moving on with my life. I am going to try to do that with compassion and care. It's tricky, we live together and my heart is not 100 % set in splitting up. He's cute. He sleeps in my bed. I want to cuddle with him. It's very confusing. It would basically take a miraculous transformation on his part-be able to solidly show me some kind of real proof of change, no snake oil smoke and mirrors. No leap of faith on my part. I can not imagine anything he could do to show me that, so.... Each day I try to distance myself a little more, make myself a little stronger so that when the day comes I can move on to the next adventure in life peacefully. Yes I agree that sex addiction is treatable but it is a long hard road. With someone that you aren't married to, do you really want to go down this road? There are forums that are for BS that will be able to give you a lot of insight on the struggles if you seek them out. Why not seek them out, like Surviving Infidelity, so you say talk to others who are dealing with sex addicts? It may be of some great help and comfort for you. I sympathize with you feel and I am so happy you aren't "owning" any piece of this because I can promise you it was there well before you. This is totally on him. What if you guys distance a bit, live in separate places, and allow yourself the ability to observe him when he has nothing to lose but the desire to get better? He has to want to change 100% for himself not just to keep you, etc. That will not have him sticking to it for the rest of his life. You seem like a very strong individuals so I bet you will be well no matter what road you end up taking. I am terribly sorry for your struggles and wish you all the best. 1
OpenBook Posted July 7, 2013 Posted July 7, 2013 I'd like to know if you think your AP has a realistic understanding of the amount of psychological trauma and pain he or she caused the BS due to the extended period of time during which he or she was sneaking around to conduct the affair with you, telling lies to the BS, and upon discovery most likely denying, minimizing, gaslighting, and trickle trothing... Speculate away! Ok. I have always held the theory that there is a great deal of anger and resentment built up gradually over a long period of time between the AP and their spouse, that ultimately results in an EMR. A bunch of little unresolved conflicts over the years, which are buried and not dealt with in the light of day, in order to keep the peace and prevent a spousal meltdown, a coping mechanism which ironically ends up imploding the M. So, to the question of the AP having a realistic understanding of the trauma & pain they're causing their BS by having an A? Oh yes, they're aware of it. Probably more than you would want to acknowledge or know about. 3
Author Betterthanthis13 Posted July 7, 2013 Author Posted July 7, 2013 (edited) Yes I agree that sex addiction is treatable but it is a long hard road. With someone that you aren't married to, do you really want to go down this road? There are forums that are for BS that will be able to give you a lot of insight on the struggles if you seek them out. Why not seek them out, like Surviving Infidelity, so you say talk to others who are dealing with sex addicts? It may be of some great help and comfort for you. I sympathize with you feel and I am so happy you aren't "owning" any piece of this because I can promise you it was there well before you. This is totally on him. What if you guys distance a bit, live in separate places, and allow yourself the ability to observe him when he has nothing to lose but the desire to get better? He has to want to change 100% for himself not just to keep you, etc. That will not have him sticking to it for the rest of his life. You seem like a very strong individuals so I bet you will be well no matter what road you end up taking. I am terribly sorry for your struggles and wish you all the best. Thanks for input and suggestions- I am talking to a lot of women who are in the same boat as me, or a lot worse, been married for years and have kids and are struggling with the discovery that their husband is a SA and figuring out what to do. I joined a support group online and in person specifically for partners of sex addicts. While its comforting to know I'm not the only one and have them to lean on for support I find most of them are in shock like me and aren't thinking clearly. It seems like either their husbands are still active in the addiction and they are in frantic detective mode, their husbands are faking recovery and going through the motions and are still active, or they are divorced and very, very bitter. I have not met one woman yet who says they have a successfully rehabilitated sex addict and are happy. So I'm breaking up my time spent between them and regular infidelity places so I don't lose my mind in negativity. I have a really big problem to work on an don't want to be narrow minded. So while it may seem odd for me to be on the OW/OMsection, it has been massively helpful for me to take a break once in awhile from reading all the advice for partners of sex addicts and how they can heal, and just read the posts on this forum to get a different part of my brain working for a minute. That's what prompted me to ask my question in the first place, because it occurred to me that the OW would be the most likely person to be an accurate judge of the WS level of understanding of the BS pain. The WS is full of crap after DDay and is claiming to understand the pain because he is caught. The BS is in pain and isn't rational. The OW has been there all along and could give a pretty accurate answer, I thought. We are all just human beings trying to find our way. I think we are all on loveshack because we are lonely or suffering in some way. I hope I haven't offended anyone by being in the "wrong" section. It's helping me, though, so thank you Edited July 7, 2013 by Betterthanthis13 1
Author Betterthanthis13 Posted July 7, 2013 Author Posted July 7, 2013 Ok. I have always held the theory that there is a great deal of anger and resentment built up gradually over a long period of time between the AP and their spouse, that ultimately results in an EMR. A bunch of little unresolved conflicts over the years, which are buried and not dealt with in the light of day, in order to keep the peace and prevent a spousal meltdown, a coping mechanism which ironically ends up imploding the M. So, to the question of the AP having a realistic understanding of the trauma & pain they're causing their BS by having an A? Oh yes, they're aware of it. Probably more than you would want to acknowledge or know about. Interesting. So in this case the WS is essentially reclaiming his/her power and self esteem after many years of suffering by covertly "punishing" the BS, like the way a teenager rebels against suffocating parents- good grades at school, extracurricular activitities, room is clean, parents think they have a dream child, but the kid is lying about where they are at night-out drinking, doing drugs,having sex, hating their parents, then going home and pretending to be the perfect child? 1
thecharade Posted July 7, 2013 Posted July 7, 2013 (edited) A couple different thoughts, Betterthan- Resentment can be an underlying cause of an A, but in the cases I know of recently, it's more entitlement/bandaging the wound. My exbf/exMM and a friend of mine, both male, seem to feel very forgotten in their Ms. The As feel ok because they feel completely neglected, even after raising numerous concerns with their Ws. I really don't see them as angry, just very lonely. An A is not the right way to solve it (I tried telling both) but they don't want to acknowledge the wounds and are avoiding the whole thing by hiding in the feel good of the A. My exbf was so completely out of touch with his W's pain that when I once went to pick him up, he wanted me to come inside. I said, "Absolutely not!" He answered, "But I want you to see my house." I then said, "SHE decorated that house, for you! For her family! I'm already doing her enough damage, I would NEVER compromise the sanctity of her home!" He looked at me with bewilderment. He literally never, EVER thought of her pain (and I could think of nothing else). Honestly, he was in the A because he still loved me, but it really wasn't about that. It was all about his selfishness, wanting everything. I was being hurt by the A too, and he just didn't really notice anyone's pain, only his own. This truth was how I got him to let go. I told him, "You do know that your kids will find out if there is a dday, and they will support their shattered mother. And blame you. And maybe hate you for awhile." The loss of his kids' affections would hurt HIM, and so he finally let me go. It still crushes me to truly realize that he didn't love either of us, only himself. Now my H, he has always had a porn thing. It is NOT about me; it is a mild sexual addiction. He needs this addiction (and others) because he is an avoider of all things negative, so his addictive personality is about hiding from his feelings instead of dealing with them, and being just selfish enough to justify it. For SAs, this thinking is much more common than the thinking found in many As, unless the person is a serial cheater. (Everyone says, "Once a cheater, always a cheater," but anecdotally, I don't see it.) My H is in IC, but he still has a lot of work to do when it comes to creating a happy life instead of using addictions to get happy in an unsatisfying life. Anyone using sex as an outlet, a hobby, is usually doing this. You seem like a solid, insightful person. I'm sure you will figure this out and find peace. Edited July 7, 2013 by thecharade
Author Betterthanthis13 Posted July 7, 2013 Author Posted July 7, 2013 A couple different thoughts, Betterthan- Resentment can be an underlying cause of an A, but in the cases I know of recently, it's more entitlement/bandaging the wound. My exbf/exMM and a friend of mine, both male, seem to feel very forgotten in their Ms. The As feel ok because they feel completely neglected, even after raising numerous concerns with their Ws. I really don't see them as angry, just very lonely. An A is not the right way to solve it (I tried telling both) but they don't want to acknowledge the wounds and are avoiding the whole thing by hiding in the feel good of the A. My exbf was so completely out of touch with his W's pain that when I once went to pick him up, he wanted me to come inside. I said, "Absolutely not!" He answered, "But I want you to see my house." I then said, "SHE decorated that house, for you! For her family! I'm already doing her enough damage, I would NEVER compromise the sanctity of her home!" He looked at me with bewilderment. He literally never, EVER thought of her pain (and I could think of nothing else). Honestly, he was in the A because he still loved me, but it really wasn't about that. It was all about his selfishness, wanting everything. I was being hurt by the A too, and he just didn't really notice anyone's pain, only his own. This truth was how I got him to let go. I told him, "You do know that your kids will find out if there is a dday, and they will support their shattered mother. And blame you. And maybe hate you for awhile." The loss of his kids' affections would hurt HIM, and so he finally let me go. It still crushes me to truly realize that he didn't love either of us, only himself. Now my H, he has always had a porn thing. It is NOT about me; it is a mild sexual addiction. He needs this addiction (and others) because he is an avoider of all things negative, so his addictive personality is about hiding from his feelings instead of dealing with them, and being just selfish enough to justify it. For SAs, this thinking is much more common than the thinking found in many As, unless the person is a serial cheater. (Everyone says, "Once a cheater, always a cheater," but anecdotally, I don't see it.) My H is in IC, but he still has a lot of work to do when it comes to creating a happy life instead of using addictions to get happy in an unsatisfying life. Anyone using sex as an outlet, a hobby, is usually doing this. You seem like a solid, insightful person. I'm sure you will figure this out and find peace. So your ex bf was so wrapped up in his own depression and pain that he couldn't see anyone else's, and simultaneously you were dealing with a H who was anesthetizing himself with porn and other addictions, therefore unavailable for you. You and ex bf built a bomb but you diffused it before it could explode. Ex bf was unable to see that a bomb had been built in the first place, only able to see his own pain. Losing his kids was the only thing that would get through to him because that would cause him more pain. Some people would jump and call him selfish and NPD. It could be he has severe depression. During the A it seemed to you like he saw you as a source of happiness-a bright light in the dark. Totally opposite from addict behavior, it probably felt like real emotion to you which is why it was so appealing compared to what was at home. I could be totally wrong, I'm just guessing. Are you still married to H? Has he made any progress? I'm glad he is in IC. I did read somewhere that SA's who act out with porn only should not attend meetings, because hearing the other guys share gives them the false sense that the other SA's are acting out with much worse behaviors and what they are doing is "only porn" so they go into justification mode and it keeps them in the cycle of addiction. Additionally, they should stay away from other SA's with more varied proclivities so they don't make friends and get ideas from them by being exposed over time. I'm sure you know way more than me being exposed to this for longer, and I'm not picking on your H. My bf is def addicted to porn (this i always knew about but never had a problem with, it wasnt hidden and i watched it with him too. Never even considered it an addiction. Our sex life was active and creative) BUT what i didnt know, and recently found out about, was that not only was porn every minute every day when I wasn't around (how did I miss that???)- he also answered some ads at one point to act in some porn. Not sure if he did or not- he says no but at this point in time all words that eminate from his mouth are assumed to be false in my mind. I'm not arguing or questioning. Im being quite pleasant. I'm just assuming nothing he says is true anymore. He did all the other SA behavior from plenty of fish to ashley madison to craigslist adult friend finder backpage etc etc and he's at the meetings talking his ass off. I'd caution anyone who has a porn only guy to keep him away from my bf. I don't think once a cheater, always a cheater, either. Each person is different. There seem to be some categoric similarities and statistical probabilities, but there are plenty of anomalies too.
SammySammy Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 Interesting thread. From a male perspective, I don't believe my AP knows the damage she can cause the BS. My situation is also interesting in that I've been both the "BS" and was the OM of the same woman. She and I have been friends since we were ten years old. Started dating as teens. I went away to college and during my second year, I find out she's cheating. I was crushed. Devastated. At that point in my young life, I had never felt that kind of hurt and pain. The relationship immediately ended. She gets pregnant by the guy she cheated with. Married him. I find another young lady in college. Eventually marry her. Have a kid. Both of our first marriages end in divorce and she finds a way to contact me again. I agree to meet her. We immediately go back into a sexual relationship. But, I notice this other man's pictures throughout the house. She claims it's her on-again/off-again boyfriend and that they were then off-again. After a while, I find out that it was never off and she was seeing both of us at the same time. I leave again. Cut all contact. Not really hurt this time. Just disappointed. Years pass by with no contact. Through the grapevine I hear that she married the boyfriend. I find someone else. We have a five-year relationship. Get engaged, but it doesn't work out. When it ends, guess who calls me out of the blue? Yep, the old ex-gf. We talk. Catch up on old times. This went on for months and months. Just old friends talking. I live in another state at this point. One day, we're both traveling on business and happened to be in the same city. We meet. Old flames reignite and it leads to amazing sex. We did that for years. It was not often, maybe two to five times a year. But, when we did meet the sex was ridiculously good. Crazy good. My AP doesn't think it can or will hurt her husband in any way. I think she feels entitled to a fling because she says her husband is not affectionate toward her and not good in the sack. I've been in his shoes with her and I know that it can hurt. A lot. Because of that, I've been avoiding meeting her for the past two years. The only problem is I now consider her my best friend. We talk nearly everyday. Besides the cheating, she's actually a great person and a good friend. Yes, she still misses the affair and would readily continue it if I wanted, but I have no desire to hurt her husband. So, we can be friends from a distance, but I've decided that I won't meet with her. All of that to say, I don't believe she understands how much she hurt me when we were younger and I don't believe she understands how much she could have hurt her husband if we were caught.
Pierre Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 All of that to say, I don't believe she understands how much she hurt me when we were younger and I don't believe she understands how much she could have hurt her husband if we were caught. Most cheaters or pro EMR folks lack empathy. Read the forum and you will see. BTW, lack of empathy is a serious flaw in any person and is the hall mark of narcissism.
Toots Posted July 9, 2013 Posted July 9, 2013 This is an honest question for any OW or OM who's AP has been through a DDay that was NOT revealed by you or confessed by your AP. It was discovered somehow on accident by the BS. I'd like to know if you think your AP has a realistic understanding of the amount of psychological trauma and pain he or she caused the BS due to the extended period of time during which he or she was sneaking around to conduct the affair with you, telling lies to the BS, and upon discovery most likely denying, minimizing, gaslighting, and trickle truthing. It was a very long time ago and DDay happened after the affair was already over. I don't think he really had a realistic understanding of trauma to her. They are both deeply damaged people. They married for reasons other than love. He wanted to stay married so he put up with her behaviour after DDay even though it cost him his job. It seemed he thought her vindictive and nasty rather than hurt, though. I suspect his own hurt is just too great to allow him to understand the hurt of others. He emailed me recently to tell me that his 70th birthday had passed with no acknowledgement. I think he had hoped I might remember (I had, but did not contact him) at least. When someone is that damaged their ability to understand and empathise must suffer too.
Author Betterthanthis13 Posted July 9, 2013 Author Posted July 9, 2013 It was a very long time ago and DDay happened after the affair was already over. I don't think he really had a realistic understanding of trauma to her. They are both deeply damaged people. They married for reasons other than love. He wanted to stay married so he put up with her behaviour after DDay even though it cost him his job. It seemed he thought her vindictive and nasty rather than hurt, though. I suspect his own hurt is just too great to allow him to understand the hurt of others. He emailed me recently to tell me that his 70th birthday had passed with no acknowledgement. I think he had hoped I might remember (I had, but did not contact him) at least. When someone is that damaged their ability to understand and empathise must suffer too. That is really, really sad for everyone involved. A lot of the stories I read give me the impression that the WS and BS problems initially generate because one or both of them lack the skills to build intimacy within their relationship so they are stuck in a black hole of resentment of anger, for years and years. Sometimes they loved each other in the beginning, in your case maybe they married for practical reasons but either way they built a life together for many years and its truly sad that they spent all that time alone in the same house. I think that's also why I have empathy for OW who believe they are in love with MM who go back to their wives. The MM was never capable of an intimate relationship in the first place, but it just seemed like he was trapped in a bad marriage I guess? And the OW was the one to wake him up and get him to feel alive for the first time and be able to connect on a deeper level? But really it was just the new relationship energy, he was never going to be capable of an intimate relationship. He was always going to be lonely and broken. I'm just generalizing, every single situation is different, if a man capable of intimacy is in a bad marriage with a woman incapable of intimacy I could see him being miserable too.. But my guess would be that kind of guy would reach out to friends, get therapy, file for divorce, travel, heal, and do a bunch of other stuff before he started dating. I'm sure there are exceptions to that too. Again, just generalizing. Everyone learns from doing. I'm just babbling on and on. Thanks for telling me your story. I hope you have someone special in your life who treats you like a princess every single day, makes you laugh not cry, and is devoted to you and only you.
Author Betterthanthis13 Posted July 9, 2013 Author Posted July 9, 2013 My MM talked like he had lots of empathy for his W. Always communicated conflict, like he didn't want to do this but couldn't give me up. I went back and forth between playing the song Jolene in my head over and over ("please don't take him just because you can...")', but I couldn't help but wonder if he was the love of my life. I confused his persistence with love. I didn't know users could be so persistent!!! He showed remorse in his M, did everything you're supposed to do during Reconciliation. Went to MC. Stopped hanging out in our social circle. He had to account for every minute of his time. But he snuck away to be with me during work hours. He felt tremendous guilt at times. Never broke dates, but sometimes would grow distant and later revealed it's because he's disgusted with himself. I felt that way too. Our A was highly neurotic as a result. Tons of push-pull. Ultimately I concluded that he's simply a man who feels entitled to have two women and wishes it were not such a big deal to the two women in his life. Sometimes I wonder if that's what all MM think and if that's..I dunno...natural. I guess I'm saying I don't always think it's a lack of feeling. I think it's more an inability to understand why things HAVE to be this way. WHY does it hurt us SO MUCH if our men cheat, and can't WE women change that? I dunno. I guess, though, the definition of empathy is not the ability to feel for others, but the ability to feel FROM THE OTHER'S POINT OF VIEW, EXACTLY HOW THEY FEEL IT. That guy sounds like he needs to be in a polyamorous relationship with a bunch of women who are ok sharing a man so he can come and go as he pleases and nobody gets mad. Like a scattered harem. Hello fantasy land. I'd bet that if the tables were turned and it was a woman doing the same thing to him he would be going out of his mind. Completely bananas losing his ****. Or maybe not. Maybe he just needs an open marriage. If he could handle a wife having other lovers as well, maybe he just married the wrong person. There are plenty of women who want that kind of thing. Too bad he wasn't honest with himself and his wife from the beginning, he could have saved a lot of people a lot of heartache.
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