Can a good looking guy really give an unattractive guy tips on how to attract women?

July 4, 2013

I am short somewhat nerdy and yes I am past 35. Am I attractive? Women do say so now but I certainly had more than my share of struggles through almost all of my 20s. I now have plenty of options.

First thing I would suggest--next to the whole taking pride in your appearance (great advice btw)-- is to become a more interesting person. Take up something that will make you grow as a person. I got into fitness--both for myself and for teaching it. Do you have any idea what that has done for both my appearance and my confidence?

Next thing I would do is look at how your friend interacts with women. Chances are he is challenging them and teasing them and talking about stuff in a way thats clear he gets their world. (Think about that rather vaguely-worded sentence for a moment.) Your successful friend probably acts in a high-status way (i.e., like a boss) while you act in a low-status way (like an approval-seeker).

Food for thought for now.

Edited July 4, 2013 by Imajerk17

July 4, 2013

The only advice you need is common sense, really.

Take a good look at yourself...look at how you groom yourself, the clothes you wear...even stuff like your eyebrows and facial hair. Lots of things can be improved and make a pretty big difference. Teeth, too.

For myself, even though I'm a guy, I pluck my eyebrows (I have VERY thick eyebrows...I recommend guys be careful with this because you don't want to go into "feminine" territory). And I whiten my teeth (baking soda and peroxide). And it's made a VERY noticeable difference. I even had people I've known for years just stop and stare at me and tell me something looked "different" about me...in a good way.

Dressing well is VERY important for a guy...even moreso than a women. You know why? Who is more interested in fashion...men or women?

I guarantee that probably 90% of the guys here don't wear clothes that fit right or just plain have NO fashion sense at all. I'm not saying you have to go all GQ, but most guys wear clothes that are too big. I was one of them. At 6'2" 195, I always thought I was an XL. Wrong. I'm a L and even then I get some of my shirts tapered and trimmed down by a tailor. My jeans were too baggy (baggy look is SO out, btw) and I get them slimmed up a bit, as well.

Men, find a good tailor. That is the #1 best thing you can do for your wardrobe.

Right on KungFuJoe -

I'm 6' 3", and 160. I exercise and am in pretty good shape, but tall and thin. I always used to wear XL so the sleeves were long enough.

A couple years ago I was in Paris for a few weeks, and got on the metro (always crowded). At the next stop a guy in his mid-20's got on and every woman's head in the car turned to look at him - most of them smiling and whispering to their girlfriends. In Paris (where most people are dressed and trimmed well, so no one ever looks because you see very attractive people all the time) I was surprised. So I looked him over to see what was going on.

He was about 5' 9" (?) and thin, like me. He was squirmingly uncomfortable with all the stares he was getting, so I don't think he was a French celebrity or anything. He might be really good looking, but he looked about like a lot of guys I saw there.

The thing I could easily see was that his clothes fit him. Really well.

Once I noticed it, it was another surprise, because so many people in Paris seemed so put together, but his shirt must have been tailored, and his pants were either tailored or the original model was built just like him.

Since then I took the time to find a tailor who was willing to re-fit off the rack shirts, and started searching out stores and catalogs that have pants that fit me well. Big Difference in how I feel, and how women respond to me.

My girlfriend now keeps telling me to wear my clothes tighter so she can see my chest and shoulders (apparently 1/4 of my body mass is in my pecs and shoulders, as that's where I spend my workout energy).

I finally figured out that some brands of clothes make a tall Small size that make me look like a runner version of Superman - so those XL's were killing my image (and made me feel goofy and sort of sloppy even when I dressed up).

In between Paris and finding my tailor, I discovered that a small button up shirt with sleeves too short was 3 times better than an XL with sleeves long enough.

I made the clothing changes when I was 37. It works.

OP - to your original question also -

as you mention, can a "good looking" friend help you learn to be more "attractive"? Yes! The key is "attractive".

Attractive is not the same as good-looking.

Think also of Charming. Confident. Fun. Respectful of everyone in the room. Happy to see your friends. (This is a silly, easy one. When a friend walks into a room, home - work - store - museum, throw your arms wide open and go, "PAULLY! I'M SO HAPPY YOU'RE HERE!!". You can't help but laugh, and your friend will have to at least smile and smirk. Everyone loves this - it's a great way to be fun and get used to spreading a welcoming confident feeling that people will soon look forward to when they see you).

Best wishes,

Sunlight

July 4, 2013

Very true. Especially the first sentence. I had a friend like that too. The ability was, for him, a license to screw around with any woman he wanted. Even when he had girlfriends and a fiance. Why women reward guys like this is beyond me. Of course these same women will later come on LS and complain they can't find a "good" man.

Yeah, not the woman you want to take home to mom, huh?

July 4, 2013

Right on KungFuJoe -
I'm 6' 3", and 160. I exercise and am in pretty good shape, but tall and thin. I always used to wear XL so the sleeves were long enough.

A couple years ago I was in Paris for a few weeks, and got on the metro (always crowded). At the next stop a guy in his mid-20's got on and every woman's head in the car turned to look at him - most of them smiling and whispering to their girlfriends. In Paris (where most people are dressed and trimmed well, so no one ever looks because you see very attractive people all the time) I was surprised. So I looked him over to see what was going on.

He was about 5' 9" (?) and thin, like me. He was squirmingly uncomfortable with all the stares he was getting, so I don't think he was a French celebrity or anything. He might be really good looking, but he looked about like a lot of guys I saw there.

The thing I could easily see was that his clothes fit him. Really well.

Once I noticed it, it was another surprise, because so many people in Paris seemed so put together, but his shirt must have been tailored, and his pants were either tailored or the original model was built just like him.

Since then I took the time to find a tailor who was willing to re-fit off the rack shirts, and started searching out stores and catalogs that have pants that fit me well. Big Difference in how I feel, and how women respond to me.

My girlfriend now keeps telling me to wear my clothes tighter so she can see my chest and shoulders (apparently 1/4 of my body mass is in my pecs and shoulders, as that's where I spend my workout energy).

I finally figured out that some brands of clothes make a tall Small size that make me look like a runner version of Superman - so those XL's were killing my image (and made me feel goofy and sort of sloppy even when I dressed up).

In between Paris and finding my tailor, I discovered that a small button up shirt with sleeves too short was 3 times better than an XL with sleeves long enough.

I made the clothing changes when I was 37. It works.

OP - to your original question also -
as you mention, can a "good looking" friend help you learn to be more "attractive"? Yes! The key is "attractive".

Attractive is not the same as good-looking.

Think also of Charming. Confident. Fun. Respectful of everyone in the room. Happy to see your friends. (This is a silly, easy one. When a friend walks into a room, home - work - store - museum, throw your arms wide open and go, "PAULLY! I'M SO HAPPY YOU'RE HERE!!". You can't help but laugh, and your friend will have to at least smile and smirk. Everyone loves this - it's a great way to be fun and get used to spreading a welcoming confident feeling that people will soon look forward to when they see you).

Best wishes,
Sunlight

Yup, study how European men dress. Guy that cuts my hair is from Armania...love the way he dresses and he gives me tips..and is even now saying he likes my clothes!

Girl I have been on 4-5 dates with, last night, said she is not use to a man dressing the way I do...she loves it! I had my "skinny" jeans on and she kept wanting to touch them and feel my legs.

July 4, 2013

Channing Tatum is a somewhat good example. Though he's definitely not a bad looking guy by any means, he does have that "meathead dumb jock" look about him. But he doesn't SOUND dumb and I think he's a very good actor. Plus his background as an exotic dancer probably doesn't hurt either.

A GREAT example is Vin Diesel. I think he's ugly (and my wife agrees) but so many woman love this guy because of his body, attitude and especially voice.

It never fails to surprise me how you and I differ in perception. This is an observation, not an insult.

Absolutely, Tatum is aesthetically hot but both he and Vin Diesel, squick me out. In interviews, neither is terribly bright and quite shallow in demeanor.

July 4, 2013

It never fails to surprise me how you and I differ in perception. This is an observation, not an insult.

Absolutely, Tatum is aesthetically hot but both he and Vin Diesel, squick me out. In interviews, neither is terribly bright and quite shallow in demeanor.

Don't know about Vin, but Channing definitely is an idiot. Cool guy, but certainly wasn't a straight A(or B) student.

July 4, 2013

Don't know about Vin, but Channing definitely is an idiot. Cool guy, but certainly wasn't a straight A(or B) student.

The intensity and depth Tatum and Vin Diesel lack, Benedict Cumberbatch has to burn, even though aesthetically, Cumberbatch doesn't come close to matching Tatum in looks. But Cumberbatch's mind, intensity, depth and demeanor make him scorching hot. You know there's a lot going on beneath the surface.

So guys who are struggling, it's not all about aesthetics for every woman, although most women have a minimum requirement where Quasimodo won't do, particularly since he articulates very poorly.

July 4, 2013

The intensity and depth Tatum and Vin Diesel lack, Benedict Cumberbatch has to burn, even though aesthetically, Cumberbatch doesn't come close to matching Tatum in looks. But Cumberbatch's mind, intensity, depth and demeanor make him scorching hot. You know there's a lot going on beneath the surface.

So guys who are struggling, it's not all about aesthetics for every woman, although most women have a minimum requirement where Quasimodo won't do, particularly since he articulates very poorly.

It's funny how so many women find Cumberbatch hot . He is a very witty fellow though - I've noticed that men who have a particular vernacular and gifted linguistically tend to do very well with various women. Think Russell Brand also - fantastic with words albeit crass in manner at times .

Demeanour is also hugely important. The way one expresses oneself, posture, the comfort or ease with which one fully revels in one's natural social persona. That's important. If you're laidback and cool, revel in that. If you're flamboyant and extraverted normally, be that. Add in some things that would complement you, maybe from your core personality that you could bring to the surface - could be a masterstroke. Don't be afraid to express.

I'm not bouncing off the walls in social situations, but my brother said to me 2 months ago "don't let that autism sh*t change your view, you're mad social sometimes, you just start talking to people at times". Obviously he doesn't know I worked at that, but generally I'm jovial in most situations, and wordy at times when I shouldn't be .

July 4, 2013

...I had a friend like that too. The ability was, for him, a license to screw around with any woman he wanted. Even when he had girlfriends and a fiance. Why women reward guys like this is beyond me. Of course these same women will later come on LS and complain they can't find a "good" man.

It's just my personal theory, but I think 'good girls' connecting with 'bad boys' happens because many people want fun. They want to go on a ride. That's why so many people pay to attend movies and amusement parks.

Sometimes a woman (or a man) meets someone who is just fun, and they get on the 'ride'. No one lives (happily) on a roller coaster, and it may last a night or 6 months, but there is a lot of fun, and nausea, to be had on a ride like that. Then you get off, and return to your real life.

I think the problem is when the 'ride' lies about who they are, or (more commonly) the rider lies to themself about what they want or about who the 'ride' really is. If the 'rider' is naïve, or pretends to be, they will feel bad and upset about it all.

Just because the 'bad boy' or 'hot chick' is fun tonight, doesn't mean they'll also be a responsible partner or parent or sane roommate - so be honest about that. But the 'rider' doesn't have to be hoodwinked - if they would admit to themselves that 'this is just a bit of fun' and take responsibility for their own part in it, then get on with their lives the world would have less drama.

--------------

Back to the OP -

so a different thought that might be helpful for you would be to bring out the fun, interesting, exotic or brightly unusual part(s) of your personality. You don't have to become Russell Brand for instance, but do think about what kind of a fun ride you could be, and offer that to people you meet.

Another point is to get used to cheerily meeting people. Not just women. Enjoy meeting strangers. I make it a game for myself when I'm in the mood to get a stranger to smile or laugh. I just take the opportunities that come up in passing, and I get one shot at a little conspiritorial friendly comment or joke and keep moving, but it is fun and has helped me to also build a relationship with my girlfriend where we're just silly and light hearted together. It's nice.

July 4, 2013

It's funny how so many women find Cumberbatch hot . He is a very witty fellow though - I've noticed that men who have a particular vernacular and gifted linguistically tend to do very well with various women. Think Russell Brand also - fantastic with words albeit crass in manner at times .

Agreed except for Russell Brand. Ew.

July 4, 2013

It's just my personal theory, but I think 'good girls' connecting with 'bad boys' happens because many people want fun. They want to go on a ride. That's why so many people pay to attend movies and amusement parks.

And to go along with your analogy, I think the beef comes from the fact that the "good women" often give these good looking "bad boys" a free ride. These men are rewarded simply for being good looking or being "bad" and women unhesitatingly invite them to hop on without much effort on their part.

They let the bad boy inside of them after a couple drinks at the bar, whereas she makes the average guy take her on X number of dates before she allows him entry. So the logic is, why is she letting this guy bang her for nothing, while she makes me jump through flaming hoops just to get her shirt off...?

July 4, 2013

They let the bad boy inside of them after a couple drinks at the bar, whereas she makes the average guy take her on X number of dates before she allows him entry. So the logic is, why is she letting this guy bang her for nothing, while she makes me jump through flaming hoops just to get her shirt off...?

Feeling annoyed and dismissed I can understand. But there is no logic. People like what we like. I'm sure there are hoards of "nice girls" that you would never even look at, as well.

July 4, 2013

Guys don't have to be good looking. They just have to have to a lot going on for them. A good looking janitor isn't going to get a lot of quality dates.

July 4, 2013

Whenever I read the term, "struggling guys," I envision something like:

http://i.istockimg.com/file_thumbview_approve/14765878/2/stock-photo-14765878-man-untangling-christmas-tree-lights.jpg

July 4, 2013

I can already tell from the first two posts you made that you're issue (if there even is one) with getting girls is your own self esteem.

Fake it til you make it, braH!

That's my Dr. Phil tip of the day.

July 4, 2013

If that is who / what you are then sure, go for it because it will come out eventually.

Bottom line... If you are the nerd in High School who plays the tuba in the marching band... Own it and make it your own and ask girls out. There are plenty of girls who will dig it and say yes.

If that same guy tries to pull off the star Quarterback on the Football Team... He is going to make a total and complete ass of himself and every girl is going to spot what a phony / fraud he is a million miles away.

In my experience, the guys who are all focused on how they present themselves, what they say, what not to say, which line to use, when to ask, where to ask her, who to ask, who they can't ask, etc.... Don't have a prayer of being successful.

Why?

Because they can't get out of their own way or their head and trying to be someone else who they think women want. These guys spend a lifetime worrying about all that stuff and never actually growing a pair and asking random women out because of self-esteem, self-worth, insecurities but mostly FEAR (of rejection). Basically they are the same guys who were wallflowers or did the "eighth grade stand" at their school dances staring across the dance floor at all the single women who are staring back at them and waiting to be asked to dance.

Getting up the nerve and having the confidence to walk up and introduce yourself to strangers / women for many is worst than death itself. What I am trying to tell you is once you do it the first few times... It becomes second nature and not even something you think or worry about. It's those first few that are terrifying beyond all belief.

You want to know who the highest paid people in your company are beside Executive Officers? Sales People. Why is that? They are the mostly highly compensated people in a company because there isn't a lot of people in the world who are comfortable putting themselves out there on a daily basis overcoming fear, rejection, meeting strangers, etc. and asking for their time, for meetings and most of all to ask them for their business.

All this crap about when, how, what to say, what to wear, how to say it, which line, etc. sorts itself out very quickly after you actually ask out a few girls. The guys talking about this crap really are just playing a game with themselves. In reality it's just a stall tactic / excuse because they have yet to find the "stones" / work up the courage to introduce themselves to random women they don't know and ask them out.

My advice to young men and what I try to help them with is acknowledging and overcoming their fears which is really the only thing preventing them from having the "stones" to go introduce themselves to women they don't know but want to get to know / ask out. It's not your haircut, whether you shave, what color your shirt is, what breakfast cereal you ate, which line to use, etc.

How many of you guys who can't get the time of day from women are tired of being told to grow a pair? I know I am. Skid mark: "growing a pair" is insulting to those you wish to advise. While you made some salient points you blew it by choosing to be insulting.

July 4, 2013

Yeah, not the woman you want to take home to mom, huh?

Mostly no. The fiance was very nice though. His philandering had her fighting back tears in front of me. I wanted to wring the bastard's neck.

July 5, 2013

Feeling annoyed and dismissed I can understand. But there is no logic. People like what we like. I'm sure there are hoards of "nice girls" that you would never even look at, as well.

"Thought process" would have been a better fit within that context than "logic."

July 5, 2013

I know a guy online who went to school with Channing Tatum.

Apparently he's actually a fairly intelligent and fairly talented guy.

You want to know who the highest paid people in your company are beside Executive Officers? Sales People. Why is that? They are the mostly highly compensated people in a company because there isn't a lot of people in the world who are comfortable putting themselves out there on a daily basis overcoming fear, rejection, meeting strangers, etc. and asking for their time, for meetings and most of all to ask them for their business.

And here I thought it was because they were making money for the company.

July 5, 2013

And to go along with your analogy, I think the beef comes from the fact that the "good women" often give these good looking "bad boys" a free ride. These men are rewarded simply for being good looking or being "bad" and women unhesitatingly invite them to hop on without much effort on their part.

They let the bad boy inside of them after a couple drinks at the bar, whereas she makes the average guy take her on X number of dates before she allows him entry. So the logic is, why is she letting this guy bang her for nothing, while she makes me jump through flaming hoops just to get her shirt off...?

When you turn a girl on sexually, there's all sorts of behavior she'll put up with that she wouldn't ordinarily. Same thing with guys. If a girl is attractive enough, we will usually put up with what is considered "bitchy" behavior.

July 5, 2013

Guys don't have to be good looking. They just have to have to a lot going on for them. A good looking janitor isn't going to get a lot of quality dates.

Depends on the kind of girls they are chasing.

July 5, 2013

How many of you guys who can't get the time of day from women are tired of being told to grow a pair? I know I am. Skid mark: "growing a pair" is insulting to those you wish to advise. While you made some salient points you blew it by choosing to be insulting.

yeah but there real issue here is, after being told to grow a pair too many times as you said, did you grow a pair yet?

July 5, 2013

yeah but there real issue here is, after being told to grow a pair too many times as you said, did you grow a pair yet?

I have a pair. That I choose not to approach women does not denote otherwise. I am comfortable with whom I am. To ask me to turn into the demonstrative type of man who routinely approaches women would compromise that. Besides I can see no good coming from routinely approaching women whom do not know me from Adam.

July 8, 2013

I guess I silenced Eddie Edirol.

July 8, 2013

I have a pair. That I choose not to approach women does not denote otherwise. I am comfortable with whom I am. To ask me to turn into the demonstrative type of man who routinely approaches women would compromise that. Besides I can see no good coming from routinely approaching women whom do not know me from Adam.

Employers don't know you from Adam either. Does that mean you should sit in your house and wait for them to knock on your door and ask you to take a job?

History favors the bold. If you are "comfortable with who you are," then you should also be comfortable with the fate that comes with it.

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Can a good looking guy really give an unattractive guy tips on how to attract women?

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