Twenty years in ... can't connect intellectually with wife. Feels like the end...

[tas001]

Can a marriage survive a lack of intellectual connection? (Especially if the lack of intellectual connection causes one person (me) to withdraw emotionally?)

 

The backstory:

 

20 years ago I courted for many years, but did not date, a girl who wasn't really interested in me. When I finally gave up, heartbroken, and went away for an year, she came after me forcefully saying she had missed my friendship. I was delighted beyond belief - like giving a firehose to a thirsty man - and next thing we had a long-distance-telephone relationship for an year and then got married (still in our early twenties). Back then I thought I was in love (but I had barely spent any real time with her before marriage so in retrospect I'm not sure if it was really love, or just an infatuation/obsession).

 

We are opposite personality types - she is an aggressive, outgoing, extrovert, wants-to-be-out-and-about-doing-things hard-charging sportswoman, I am a milder, quieter, creative, introverted, need-my-space-and-alone-time person - (it was a case of opposites attract) with barely any shared interests and had awful arguments from the very beginning, but I had always been told marriage takes work, so I blamed myself for not understanding and tried to work at it. Because of my milder nature, I found myself deferring to her many wants, and at one point even shut down my creative outlets because of the marital friction they were causing. I didn't realize it, but shutting down my creativity started making me very resentful towards her, which made the arguments worse, and it was only after some individual counseling sessions did I understand that there wasn't enough balance in the marriage - that as an aggressive person she was used to asking for a lot (with the assumption her asks would be resisted) but as a milder non-confrontational person I was giving it all up without standing up for myself (because I used to assume people only asked for what was truly important to them).

 

At this point I started reading about relationships and marriage, and had some deep conversations, in one of which she admitted that she was not in love with me when we got married - that she decided to marry me because I was a good catch and safe choice and someone who would support her career aspirations... but over the twenty years she had learnt to be in love with me totally and was still totally in love with me. As for me, at that moment I realized that while I loved her, I was not at all in love with her - I did not have any intellectual connection with her any more - she was not the partner who intellectually completed me (over the years, I won many awards in many creative fields, but they were a cause of much bickering and nagging at home about how I as taking time away from the family)...

 

I used to be a funny guy, but she never got my jokes so I stopped joking... I used to tell her everything, but she has a bad memory for details and can't keep one thing straight from another so forget having nuanced conversations, it became frustrating having just about any conversation without having to endlessly repeat everything each time, so those trailed off over time .. The things that excite me don't excite her and vice versa so we have fewer and fewer things to do together, other than bringing up 2 wonderful kids ... she's a great mom, and the most golden-hearted person I know ... but she's not my intellectual companion, and that is making me very very sad.

 

I feel I screwed up in my marriage choice- I never dated, never had another girlfriend, never even slept with anyone else, never had intellectual intercourse with anyone else, and by marrying the first person I was infatuated with, I basically have sentenced myself to an intellectually lonely existence. My wife is thoroughly in love with me and wants me to be her best friend - but I'm frustrated that she can't be my intellectual partner in life. Every now and then I will run into a person who ignites my intellectual sparks, and all this does is makes me sad because it reminds me how much I am missing something that feels important to me that no amount of therapy or counseling can recreate.

 

There's lots of other things that aren't right in the marriage, but as per all the advice books, those things are salvageable (fight less, talk more, communicate, more intimacy) ... but I keep asking myself why ... why would I salvage the marriage if it will never intellectually complete me? I don't want to break up the family unit (for the kids sake) and, per se, there's nothing outwardly or obviously wrong with it (no abuse, dependencies, etc ) and everyone (including my extended family) simply loves my wife...

 

But deep inside, I feel all alone, I struggle with this and I am afraid that through passive-aggressive behaviors I will push things in the wrong direction so a decision gets made for me by my own emotional withdrawal and inward unhappiness and resentment...

 

 

What should I do or think? Suck up and live with it? Leave? Have an intellectual affair with someone else?

Sorry this is long (although I feel I didn't even share the half of it)

Edited July 3, 2013 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[JustAReformedGirl]

This is a tough one, especially with all those years you've spent together, and your lack of dating experience beforehand.

 

In that regard, I feel your pain; I haven't been married long though, and even my full 8 and a half years doesn't hold a candle to 20 years.

 

It really sounds like, when you first pursued her just to give up, it caused a push-pull reaction in her. She enjoyed being pursued by you, even though she rebuffed your attempts, time and again. Once you pulled away, she may have believed she desired you.

 

She said she didn't originally have feelings for you, beyond making a logical choice to be with you, but developed them over the years? Did she say how long it took for true emotion to take root?

 

As for you, I think you may be right in your interpretation of your feelings, both early on and now. Perhaps the marriage has become stale, made even worse by your lack of connection (outside of those years, and your children).

 

You both love each other, but you're not "in" love with her, correct? Usually, falling "in" love is usually to do with infatuation. Actual love is what remains after all the pretty rainbows and cotton candy clouds are gone, and you still desire to be with that person.

 

What intellectual interests do you have that your wife doesn't? What interests does she have? Are any of them intellectual, in their own right?

 

I suggest honest communication with your wife about what you're feeling. If it can't be resolved (after all, you wouldn't want her to fake who she is, just to fit your personality), then I would say it's okay to have friends who meet your intellectual needs.

 

Yes, it's sad that you and your wife lack that connection, but it doesn't sound like the kind of thing to throw your marriage away on. If you didn't love her and you were dissatisfied in more ways than you're actually satisfied (within the marriage), I would think separation would benefit you both.

 

Otherwise, perhaps you can attempt counselling? If not, and you feel the need to reach out to someone else intellectually, and said person happens to be female, make sure it goes no further than intellectual interests. Actual affairs wind up with ugly consequences.

 

But, like I said; talk to your wife first. I'm sure she'll understand that, like her, you require other people and interests in your life, outside of your marriage.

[pteromom]

Why does your wife have to fulfill every need you have? If you want to be intellectually stimulated, there's friendship. There are clubs. There are classes. Doesn't have to be an "intellectual affair". It can be a group of MALE friends with similar interests.

 

What I get from your story is that you didn't assert yourself enough throughout your marriage, and now you resent your wife for missing out on things you love.

 

But you still have that choice. You don't HAVE to do something simply because of the way she feels about it.

 

Doesn't mean you have to turn into a selfish ass, but it is OK to be somewhat selfish. You have to be happy.

 

My advice is to have a heart-to-heart with your wife. Explain to her that you feel like you've missed out on a lot of your creative side, and you are going to start carving out some time and energy for the things you love to do. That it doesn't mean you are deserting your family if you do something for yourself regularly. Of course, give her time to do the same for herself - don't go too far in the other direction.

 

And it's OK to make jokes just to amuse yourself, even if she doesn't laugh. Actually, sometimes that makes it funnier. LOL

 

My guess is that once you start making the rest of your life what you want it to be, that you might find you care more about your wife than you think you do right now.

 

I don't think your problem is your marriage. I think your problem is that you are letting your wife stop you from being you.

[Balzac]

How old are your kids?

[Zapbasket]

Why does your wife have to fulfill every need you have? If you want to be intellectually stimulated, there's friendship. There are clubs. There are classes. Doesn't have to be an "intellectual affair". It can be a group of MALE friends with similar interests.

 

What I get from your story is that you didn't assert yourself enough throughout your marriage, and now you resent your wife for missing out on things you love.

 

But you still have that choice. You don't HAVE to do something simply because of the way she feels about it.

 

Doesn't mean you have to turn into a selfish ass, but it is OK to be somewhat selfish. You have to be happy.

 

My advice is to have a heart-to-heart with your wife. Explain to her that you feel like you've missed out on a lot of your creative side, and you are going to start carving out some time and energy for the things you love to do. That it doesn't mean you are deserting your family if you do something for yourself regularly. Of course, give her time to do the same for herself - don't go too far in the other direction.

 

And it's OK to make jokes just to amuse yourself, even if she doesn't laugh. Actually, sometimes that makes it funnier. LOL

 

My guess is that once you start making the rest of your life what you want it to be, that you might find you care more about your wife than you think you do right now.

 

I don't think your problem is your marriage. I think your problem is that you are letting your wife stop you from being you.

 

This. I'm re-posting because I found it impossible to say it better. Excellent perspective and advice.

[tas001]

Thanks for the replies folks.

 

Pteromom/Rebel: Thanks for the insight. I did have the conversation about 'letting me be me' about an year ago and that part has slowly improved (although it took a lot of self-retraining to stop feeling guilty about putting myself first sometimes). You are probably right that she doesn't have to fulfill all my intellectual-companionship needs ... but right now she's not a partner in any of my creative endeavors (I write books/poetry, make movies, do art and illustration, and am a published humorist ... ) and that feels like a big hole in my life. I've seen couples who are creative partners and that has left me wondering how normal or abnormal my own situation is - because everything else can be patched up, but this one thing can't... And if spouses don't or won't participate in a person's primary interest areas, what's left after the kids move out? [ Other than sex if you can still get it up ? ]

 

[balzac: the kids are middle schoolers so they won't be moving out for another 6-8 years]

 

If there are any creative people reading this, I'd love to hear whether your partners are equally creative or not (and if not, how does that impact your view of your relationship)...

 

Thanks for letting me talk about this ... even talking about it is helping...

[Zapbasket]

... but right now she's not a partner in any of my creative endeavors (I write books/poetry, make movies, do art and illustration, and am a published humorist ... ) and that feels like a big hole in my life.

 

What kind of creative partnership would you like to have? In my view (and I'm a writer and musician) the most important things your committed romantic partner can give you for your creative work are a) the time and space to do it, and b) the understanding of its importance to you. I mean, gosh, it's hard enough to work well as a married couple--why is it necessary to add a creative partnership, as well? (I'm assuming by creative partnership you mean where you actually work on projects together.)

[cocorico]

If there are any creative people reading this, I'd love to hear whether your partners are equally creative or not (and if not, how does that impact your view of your relationship)...

 

Thanks for letting me talk about this ... even talking about it is helping...

 

This sounds very like my H's previous M. He lasted about a decade more than you but they increasingly lived separate lives because the points of connection - which were few enough in the beginning - decreased in number and priority over time, and the M became unsustainable.

 

We are both creative, but in different ways. We both write, but different genres; he is musical and I am arty; we are both researchers, and intellectually curious, so we share an active life of the mind. It works very well for us. When I think about my parents, who had nothing to say to each other of a night, I feel really blessed to have someone with whom I can share everything, who is my intellectual equal in every way and whom I can feel really proud to be with.

 

I fear, tas, that if you do not have that kind of connection you will find yourself losing respect for your W, and a M without respect is not a partnership.

[Janesays]

Why does your wife have to fulfill every need you have? If you want to be intellectually stimulated, there's friendship. There are clubs. There are classes. Doesn't have to be an "intellectual affair". It can be a group of MALE friends with similar interests.

 

 

Personally, I think you're a lucky guy. Who wants to marry the carbon copy opposite sex version of themselves? Why not marry someone DIFFERENT and learn to admire and respect those differences? That's what you have RIGHT NOW and you're peeing all over it, buddy.

 

If you married someone just like you, you'd be bored out of your mind within the year.

 

Do what pteromom said, find some MALE friends that you can connect with on your 'intellectual, creative' level and start enjoying the differences between them and your wife.

 

20 years is a lot to throw away....especially when you might just end up alone and/or disappointed in someone else.

 

Honestly, I think you sound a little depressed and like you're going through a mid-life crisis. When people make drastic decisions during mid life crisis's, they usually spend the rest of their lives regretting them.

[pteromom]

If there are any creative people reading this, I'd love to hear whether your partners are equally creative or not (and if not, how does that impact your view of your relationship)...

 

I am very creative (writing, art, photography) and my husband is NOT AT ALL creative. He is a math and computers guy.

 

I have other friends and family to share my creative side with, and it is OK with me that my hubby is not creative and doesn't "get" this part of me. As long as he lets me indulge in those pursuits, it doesn't matter whether he shares them with me.

[pteromom]

Honestly, I think you sound a little depressed and like you're going through a mid-life crisis. When people make drastic decisions during mid life crisis's, they usually spend the rest of their lives regretting them.

 

This is a good point. I do get a little of that vibe as well.

[Els]

IMO, this is one of those things that some people need in a R and some don't.

 

Personally, I can't imagine a LTR without intellectual connection. In fact, it is one of the most important points of a R to me - combined with emotional closeness, the ability to share anything and have your partner understand and reciprocate, is priceless to me. But the thing is, because that is so integral to my attraction and relationship style, I've never gone past Date 1 with someone whom I do not have that connection to. So if I'm in a LTR with someone, never mind married, I definitely have this with them.

 

On the other hand, you courted this girl for many years, and presumably also dated her for some time. Unless she's suffering from a degenerative brain cell disorder, I somehow doubt she changed much from then til now. If this aspect of a R was that important to you, how were you attracted to her all that time?

 

I think it would be worth seeking counselling for a potential mid-life crisis, and also finding ways to rekindle the spark within your R. Try to see in her what made her attractive to you for so many years before this.

[It-is-what-it-is.]

And relationship/marriage that lasts a long time has challenges to deal with.

 

I think you are saying you want, within the marriage, for your wife to either

A) participate in your "creative" interests

B) validate or show interest in your creative output/process?

 

Or C) or you want out? (Not clear if this is where you are really headed.)

 

Also, I think you feel you have been very passive in your relationship as a coping mechanism and it doesn't entirely work for you anymore so you want to change that. (Ok, fair enough)

 

I think you are thinking you missed out on the happy drugged in love feelings and are wondering "what if?"

 

This is exactly the kind of stuff a good marriage councelor can work with you on.

 

As an aside, my spouse and I have very different jobs, interests and hobbies too. We rarely discuss my work because its so complex(and frankly boring). We are opposites in many many things. We even handle conflict differently and that raises all kinds of ongoing challenges.

 

If i knew developing an interest in something meant it would make him happy i would give it a try. But he would have to tell me. Just sayin.

[tas001]

Thanks for the continuing feedback...

 

I realize I made it sound like the primary issue is I can't connect with my spouse. Actually there's lots of other primary issues in the marriage (stemming from our different personality types) ... and what I'm struggling with is that solving those other issues is an ongoing Sisyphean task - but at the end of it, if I don't have that sense of her being my 'partner', why would I put myself through the wringer to get to that place ...

 

Someone asked above what I saw in her when I was initially attracted to her. What I was attracted to was the fact that she was a lively, exuberant, spontaneous, impulsive, social, knows-how-to-have-fun-right-now/life-of-the party gal (and I was the stereotypical shy geeky wallflower nerd who had never met anyone like her). What 20 years have taught me is that impulsive and spontaneous is just another word for someone who leaps before they look, who rushes into situations without any pre-thought, and who takes needless risks (because she doesn't think about the consequences of actions). She also lives in the present (which is not a bad thing by itself, because you get to enjoy the life you have), but it means that planning for the future, and thinking about the consequence of actions doesn't come automatically to her. In contrast, I am a over-planner who thinks ahead constantly - so on the one hand you would think we balance each other perfectly, but on the other hand this is a source of friction in just about every situation.

 

The third primary source of friction comes from time-management. Imagine if you had one spouse who was careful with money, saved and planned, and always wanted to have a cushion, and then you had another spouse who was always spending spontaneously, running up a debt again and again, and then asking the first spouse to bail her out every time she got into trouble (How long would that relationship last? ) Well we have the same relationship, just substitute time for money ... I try to manage my time and commitments carefully - she always manages to over-extend herself by taking on too much and then expects me to rescue her by taking over the things she cant do ...

 

These things are so fundamental in our nature that we have tried and failed to change ourselves over and over again. Now on top of that add the fact that I cant have deep conversations with her... and I find myself thinking we spend so much time trying to overcome or stabilize friction that I cant remember the last time I was really happy (probably it was the day I got married).

 

So if you've been thinking I sound depressed about it, yes I probably do get depressed about it sometimes .. (what's the emoticon for a resigned, sad, depressed smile)

[beach]

First I have one question for you.

 

Is there another gal that's grabbing your attention now instead of your wife?

[tas001]

beach: no there is no other gal in my life right now (though I wish there was ) .. Hasn't been for 20 years either (and before that too) ... (kinda pathetic sounding, I know )