Men taking control...

[Imajerk17]

Since you asked I will give you my take on this post.

 

This is rather OT since we are talking about men, but I'd like to point out that it hasn't exactly been rosey for the girls, either.

 

We're expected to not only be educated, earn good salaries to supplement/match our men's, raise healthy well-adjusted kids, but do it all while also somehow maintaining our youthful figure and beauty. A badass in the boardroom and a source of nurture and femininity in the home. We wear a lot of hats.

 

Um, men have likewise responsibility. Men are expected to be good fathers as well as breadwinners. We have to do what we can to stay fun and vital ourselves. And if the family runs into financial difficulties, it is still considered the man's fault.

 

You do have to actually bear the child though, I will give you that.

 

So many times on this board I have seen men say that women sharply decline after 30. Do you know what kind of blow that is, the pressure to remain pretty and "in the game"?

Commented on already. Still boggles my mind that I'm asked to wonder "what kind of blow that is" to be disparaged by some wet-behind-the-ears poster. Grow a pair! To sum it its nothing that a short guy hasn't had to deal with. The silver lining is that there are plenty of sought-after short guys and there are plenty of desirable women well past 30.

 

Unfortunately, regardless of these recent societal changes, our biological makeup remains the same and so do our basic, different needs.

 

So which is it for us? Lock down a husband in our 20's (amongst a pool of men who are much less likely to commit than previous generations), raise a couple of kids and forgo a career? What if he leaves and I can't support myself? Or put the time and effort into a career that promises to comfortably earn for a family we someday wish to have, all the while having our biological clocks ticking impatiently away?

Men worry about losing their shirt in a divorce proceedings as well too.

 

For the record, I've NEVER heard any of my independent female counterparts complain that a man planned a date or pulled out her chair at dinner. EVER.

OR if having a family is so important to you, maybe when you hit your 30s you could stop screening so much on Chemistry, or at the very least give the good guys you meet more second dates. Use the options you have now wisely. No your life might not end up resembling your favorite rom-com, but c'est la vie.

 

If a man wants a woman to give him sex and companionship, he probably will have to "settle" as well to get that. We all have tough choices to make.

 

That said, I DO feel bad for women who don't get asked out a lot. They have a tougher. But you get asked out your share. So I'm still not seeing how things are tough for you..

Edited July 2, 2013 by Imajerk17

[Drseussgrrl]

Since you asked I will give you my take on this post.

 

 

 

Um, men have likewise responsibility. Men are expected to be good fathers as well as breadwinners. We have to do what we can to stay fun and vital ourselves. And if the family runs into financial difficulties, it is still considered the man's fault.

 

You do have to actually bear the child though, I will give you that.

 

Commented on already.

 

OR maybe when you hit your 30s you could stop screening so much on Chemistry, or at the very least give the good guys you meet more second dates. Use the options you have now wisely. No your life might not end up resembling your favorite rom-com, but c'est la vie.

 

That said, I DO feel bad for women who don't get asked out a lot. They have a tougher. But you get asked out your share. So I'm still not seeing how things are tough for you..

 

But I'm not wired that way. Heaven forbid I want someone I feel chemistry with!

 

I have tried. Given men a shot when I knew after the first date/meet that my feelings probably wouldn't progress. Why put myself through that or force myself into something that doesn't light my fire? Isn't that what the honeymoon stage is about? And - how is that fair to the man? God, I would be mortified if I knew a guy went out with me a second time even though he wasn't "feeling it".

 

I know you assume this is exactly why I'm still single. But I've had it before, I've had lovely relationships that have born out of it, and once you've had it it's impossible to think of not having "it" again.

 

And I think it's rather patronizing of you to suggest that I don't struggle with dating simply because I have "options". You of all people have seen how these "options" have panned out, so far. I've had a pretty unlucky streak as of late.

 

Besides, aren't you yourself dating like, 5 people at the moment? Hell I've never been THAT fortunate, if you want to call it that.

[Imajerk17]

But I'm not wired that way. Heaven forbid I want someone I feel chemistry with!

 

I have tried. Given men a shot when I knew after the first date/meet that my feelings probably wouldn't progress. Why put myself through that or force myself into something that doesn't light my fire? Isn't that what the honeymoon stage is about? And - how is that fair to the man? God, I would be mortified if I knew a guy went out with me a second time even though he wasn't "feeling it".

 

I know you assume this is exactly why I'm still single. But I've had it before, I've had lovely relationships that have born out of it, and once you've had it it's impossible to think of not having "it" again.

 

And I think it's rather patronizing of you to suggest that I don't struggle with dating simply because I have "options". You of all people have seen how these "options" have panned out, so far. I've had a pretty unlucky streak as of late.

 

Besides, aren't you yourself dating like, 5 people at the moment? Hell I've never been THAT fortunate, if you want to call it that.

 

I get that you have had a cold streak lately. And I truly do hope it turns around for you soon because you seem like a really good person who deserves that.

 

I guess I really took issue with the "what a blow that is" comment. If a guy had made a comment like that he would have been flamed for it and rightfully so. A 30-something woman doesn't have anything worse to deal with than a short dude.

 

At the moment I admit that dating is easier for me that it is for most people. I have it fairly sweet these days. BUT I had to work REALLY REALLY hard to get those options. And I wouldn't call them options per se--many of them flame out after the first meet--their choice. The difference is that a couple stick around and I am able to meet more women easily.

Edited July 2, 2013 by Imajerk17

[crederer]

What the really mean is they want you to know when to take the lead, and they want you to know when the stfu and listen to what they want. Clear? good.

[Drseussgrrl]

"I guess I really took issue with the "what a blow that is" comment. If a guy had made a comment like that he would have been flamed for it and rightfully so. A 30-something woman doesn't have anything worse to deal with than a short dude."

 

Sorry I guess I should have phrased it differently but yeah - our clocks remind us all the time that we're not exactly 19 anymore. Don't need to hear it from everyone else, too.

 

I have a birthday tomorrow so I suppose I'm rather sensitive to that stuff at the moment.

[Imajerk17]

"I guess I really took issue with the "what a blow that is" comment. If a guy had made a comment like that he would have been flamed for it and rightfully so. A 30-something woman doesn't have anything worse to deal with than a short dude."

 

Sorry I guess I should have phrased it differently but yeah - our clocks remind us all the time that we're not exactly 19 anymore. Don't need to hear it from everyone else, too.

 

I have a birthday tomorrow so I suppose I'm rather sensitive to that stuff at the moment.

 

Awww. Take heart though. I'm older than you by several years. I have felt really hot for women 40+.

 

My best female friend found love at 36.

 

Happy Birthday too!

Edited July 2, 2013 by Imajerk17

[Southern Cal Dude]

Awww. Take heart though. I'm older than you by several years. I have felt really hot for women 40+.

 

My best female friend found love at 36.

 

Happy Birthday too!

 

 

I love 40+ women, especially if they're cougars. They come to my bar a lot. I love being a cub.

[jma500]

What the really mean is they want you to know when to take the lead, and they want you to know when the stfu and listen to what they want. Clear? good.

 

What the hell are you talking about?

[SteveC80]

My, it seems you missed the entire point of my post. Clearly I was just giving one example but the meaning was pretty clear (or so I thought). Too many men don't know how to make a simple goddamn decision on their own. I know men who don't even dress themselves without their partners input.

 

And frankly yes, not knowing how to make simple decisions and constantly trying to defer to your partner in the most trivial of matters does make you a passive wimp. It means you possess neither the competence nor the wherewithal to make independent choices. I find it odd that you equate decisiveness basically to dictatorship.

 

Also, no one said you had to tell anyone what to eat for dinner. But it would certainly be nice for you to have some idea rather than turning the issue into a nightly debate. All this "I don't know, what do you want honey?" crap is a disease. If you can't make a firm decision regarding something as frivolous as that, what the hell would you do when it came to something really important? Very few women want a man that appears to be unable to function as an individual.

 

I didnt say all the time im talking about women who expect men to tell them what to do and whats for dinner all the time and if a man dare asks her what she wants then hes a passive wimp with no backbone

 

Were both adults and both can speak up,women who want men to make nearly every decison usually have some sort of daddy complex which i try to stay away from i want a partner not another child

[SJC2008]

My, it seems you missed the entire point of my post. Clearly I was just giving one example but the meaning was pretty clear (or so I thought). Too many men don't know how to make a simple goddamn decision on their own. I know men who don't even dress themselves without their partners input.

 

And frankly yes, not knowing how to make simple decisions and constantly trying to defer to your partner in the most trivial of matters does make you a passive wimp. It means you possess neither the competence nor the wherewithal to make independent choices. I find it odd that you equate decisiveness basically to dictatorship.

 

Also, no one said you had to tell anyone what to eat for dinner. But it would certainly be nice for you to have some idea rather than turning the issue into a nightly debate. All this "I don't know, what do you want honey?" crap is a disease. If you can't make a firm decision regarding something as frivolous as that, what the hell would you do when it came to something really important? Very few women want a man that appears to be unable to function as an individual.

 

On the other end of the spectrum if I made all/most of the descisions wouldn't that make YOU indecisive? Like I said sometimes I don't care what we eat or what movie I see or what we should do. Why can't you throw your hat into the ring?? Now if I was always whatevs I totally understand but some women take this crap too far. A woman in another thread was 'turned off' becuase it took her date a while to pick something on the menu lol! So now I know when I go on a dinner date, as soon as I crack the menu open the the stopwatch it ticking. Or better yet, I won't even open it. I'll look at the menu online and I'll order at the host/hostess station before they even seat us.

Edited July 2, 2013 by SJC2008

[Woggle]

If all the decisions are left to me then respect the decisions I make instead of getting mad at me for not magically guessing what you really want.

[joystickd]

If all the decisions are left to me then respect the decisions I make instead of getting mad at me for not magically guessing what you really want.

If you are making the decisions then its not an issue for you if she gets mad. If she gets mad tell her if she don't like it then she can hit the door.

[SJC2008]

I never said anything about anyone having to make all or even most decisions. Some would be nice...

 

I know. It wasn't neccessarily directed at you, more of a general comment. I should of made that clear...

[joystickd]

I don't admire pimps. The image you see of the sharply dressed man in a pimped out ride talking slickly is not the way most of them are.

It's a shell of its former self now you have drug dealers and gangbangers wanting to be pimp but I'm talking old school.

 

The thing I admire was the belief. In anything you do you have to believe in what you are doing. A big problem with a lot of guys is the lack of belief in their own abilities and what they say in terms of dating. There is a concept I have heard called worshiping the game. It talks about having faith in you and believing what you tell these women. Being decisive and definite in action. You can't take control if you don't believe in what you are doing. If you doubt yourself then others will too.

[Woggle]

I'd certainly have no problem respecting your decision if I placed the matter entirely in your hands. Anything else would be silly but if someone throws a hissy fit, it's really very easy to stand your ground.

 

Trust me it was not easy with my ex if I didn't want to deal with breaking dishes or having my stuff thrown out the window if she didn't get her way.

[Woggle]

She may have been crazy but it was your fault for entertaining it. If you find yourself in a situation where a grown ass woman is having temper tantrums you need to leave the moment the first dish is thrown down. Sorry, but that you decided to kowtow and surgically remove your spine and put up with that is just one of the many characteristics of the indecisive, passive/conflict-avoidant male.

Trust me I learned my lesson. It is why she is my ex now.

[joystickd]

Is it really wise to admire those who go prey on vulnerable people and achieve what they want purely though dishonest -- no matter how much they themselves come to believe it? That would be the same as looking up to child predators who go online then lie and trick young girls into meeting them under false pretenses. I'm sure those predators believe in what they're saying too...

I admire the confidence and strength in belief they have. It's not really the same as a child predator. Most get women by choice not by force well that was the old school way of doing things. Read some books about it. I admire qualities and they were the only people I knew of at the time of my struggles that possessed that quality. There are a lot of questionable people that people admire. I just admire those qualities and that is all

Edited July 2, 2013 by joystickd

[Esoteric Elf]

The Media's Destruction Of The Modern Heterosexual Man: I actually did a report on this for my Problems In Media class. Take a look at how most men are represented in today's television and movies.

 

-the virgin who doesn't know how to talk to women (big bang theory, among others)

 

-the macho man who doesn't have a brain, who's wife is the brains of the household (home improvement)

 

-the slacker who is only interested in sports and sex (everybody loves raymond, king of queens, many others)

 

Where is the suave, dominant, confident, interesting man? Not the horny married guy who has to beg his wife for sex, who can only get it by doing things like doing dishes first, or maybe even hatching schemes to get her to sleep with him. Or maybe he finds ways to avoid spending time with his children, but alas, his scheme is always thwarted by his much smarter wife.

 

Where are the role models we as men can look up to?

 

There was an article published by CNN titled "Why Are Men So Stupid?" -- it was about the Tiger Woods and John Edwards of the world who have been caught in public affairs. If I wrote an article titled "Why Are Women So Stupid?" -- I would have to release a public apology and clean out my desk.

 

In today's media world -- ethnicities are off limits, women are off limits, the disabled are off limits, religions are off limits, homosexuals and transgendered are off limits -- but the straight man? Screw it! Make him an idiot, make him a nerdy virgin, make him a slacker, make him a sex starved lunatic. It's all good.

 

Of course, men cannot complain about it because then they look like a whiney bitch. So they just have to sort of grin and laugh it off even though everywhere you turn in the media is another slap in the face to the straight man.

 

Despite all of this -- the man is still largely expected to be the provider, leader, and protector. He is supposed to still live up to his stereotype of being stoic and macho.

 

How many men who wear their emotions on their sleeve get laid? None. Most of them get friend zoned. I have had more than one woman tell me "He's cute but he's such a pussy! He is TOO nice! That's why I can't date him!"

 

But where in the media do we see James Dean, Clint Eastwood, other popular male, macho figures that defined classic masculinity.

 

You don't.

 

You see the married guy who hides the cable bill from his wife because he ordered porn.

I applaud your post, MrCastle. Aptly put. I nearly felt the urge to stand up and applaud with none as audience but the computer screen.

[ltjg45]

That's sort of counter productive, don't you think? Don't give up, that's stupid. You don't have to get owned. He didn't mention giving up, that's quite an un-masculine trait I'd say. I've never given up in anything that I actually gave a rat's ass about.. If anything, I try harder and harder until one day I finally realize just how far I've come. Try to adopt a more positive attitude.

 

It's hard not to give up.

 

Basically my stance on the matter is pretty simple: Unless I meet a woman that is so much different from the general stereotypes of women that I get to see every day or I have seen the way she acts beforehand, I won't approach.

 

This will significantly reduce the size of my dating pool just off of that alone but, by doing that, I won't get side-tracked so easily when I'm trying to fix this financial mess I'm in.

 

I just finally got my 2nd job after looking for 5 years so I'm too excited for it to even have the thought of approaching women anytime soon. Orientation is tomorrow.