Men taking control...

[Woggle]

I haven't heard anything about Jay-z cheating on Beyonce though he has some misogynistic lyrics.

[RedRobin]

Colin Powell. Pretty awesome guy. Hasn't cheated that I know of.

 

His wife doesn't look like Beyoncé either...

[MrCastle]

I can understand the pimp hate. I get that.

 

I get the player hate -- the guys who have to lie and cheat to be good with women.

 

I get the hefner-esque playboy hate -- the guys who throw money around to get much younger women

 

I'm not a playboy, or a pimp, or a player.

 

I'm just a man who absolutely adores women in all their forms. A big reason why I can't settle down is because I love too many types of women. All different body types to all different personalities.

 

But I respect them and see them as equals.

 

I don't have to lie to get into their pants. I just use confidence and charm.

 

But some on here may consider my lifestyle sleazy. I don't understand how, when the women are agreeing to the casual set up. No one is being lied to or used.

 

Just because you want to, or have slept with, a considerable amount of women, doesn't automatically make you a misogynist.

[ScreamingTrees]

MrCastle couldn't have posted it better than this.

 

Utterly perfect.

 

As he mentioned in his post, I basically gave up. Too much risk, not enough reward. I can't see me actually keeping a woman happy due to their different forms of expectations so I'm just going to stay passive and be content being single unless I find a woman worth going after and, even then, I will still keep my guard up.

 

Better off doing that and living a decent life alone than to throw myself into the dating game and getting owned in multiple ways.

 

That's sort of counter productive, don't you think? Don't give up, that's stupid. You don't have to get owned. He didn't mention giving up, that's quite an un-masculine trait I'd say. I've never given up in anything that I actually gave a rat's ass about.. If anything, I try harder and harder until one day I finally realize just how far I've come. Try to adopt a more positive attitude.

[JustAReformedGirl]

I can understand the pimp hate. I get that.

 

I get the player hate -- the guys who have to lie and cheat to be good with women.

 

I get the hefner-esque playboy hate -- the guys who throw money around to get much younger women

 

I'm not a playboy, or a pimp, or a player.

 

I'm just a man who absolutely adores women in all their forms. A big reason why I can't settle down is because I love too many types of women. All different body types to all different personalities.

 

But I respect them and see them as equals.

 

I don't have to lie to get into their pants. I just use confidence and charm.

 

But some on here may consider my lifestyle sleazy. I don't understand how, when the women are agreeing to the casual set up. No one is being lied to or used.

 

Just because you want to, or have slept with, a considerable amount of women, doesn't automatically make you a misogynist.

 

Agreed. It's not like you're being dishonest. Too many people assume that just because someone is polyamorous that they must be whores/players.

[jma500]

Exactly. We have a generation of people from broken families who have no clue whatsoever to relate in healthy ways to the opposite sex. I include myself in this but at least I know it and try to improve myself even though it is a struggle. Many people on the other hand can never admit that circumstances screwed them. I admit I am a mess but I can admit it which is more than most people can say.

 

I hear you and I am mess too. I just keep trying to improve myself as well. You are right it is a struggle. While I want a relationship and kids I do not know how to get it. While I do not expect a woman to approach I will not approach women either. The women who got close to me were introduced to me or sat next to me in some sort of class and a convo just happened. I view approaching as allowing someone a certain amount of power to verbally abuse me. I took enough of the that in my teens and twenties thanks to an alcoholic parent. I won't tolerate that from anyone anymore. So glad I have photography to keep me distracted.

[ScreamingTrees]

I will say that for pimps. I admire them but it's for the qualities any man can use and apply to his everyday dealings with women.

 

I don't admire them, they're mostly punks and *******s.

 

You could argue that they display a cheap brand of masculinity. Taking control of those who're most often too weak to even be in control of their own lives. Hell, a "whore" could just find her own work. The pimp doesn't have much value in the equation.

[Ruby Slippers]

I agree that the masculine role, along with the family structure in general, have been distorted to nefarious ends in American culture in particular. Maybe it's to discourage more breeding, maybe it's to keep us more isolated and stuck in our little Matrix bubbles alone, who knows? But it's not good.

 

My boyfriend comes from a conservative background, and though he's very new world in some ways, he's more old world when it comes to relationships, dating, and marriage - and for the most part, I find it very appealing.

 

He said that no woman in his family, or any woman married to a man in his family, has ever had to work. But he understands my point that being financially dependent on a man is dangerous these days. He says he'd be happy to take care of me and our family for life, but would never stand in the way of my career. His primary goal in life has been to become a strong provider, so he can provide for his wife and children, and eventually his parents and other family members when/if they need it. He seems fulfilled with this, works very hard, and he's doing great so far.

 

He is somewhat paternal and enjoys advising me on problems in my life. He's good at it, too. The first time I really noticed this was when we were having dinner in a neighborhood I was considering moving to. He said, "This is a nice neighborhood. You can move here." I was like, "Really? Thanks, Dad!" haha But then I have to give him credit for taking charge of my apartment search and taking several decisive steps to help me land an amazing apartment in a gorgeous, vintage 2-flat home. This is by far the nicest place I've ever lived as an adult, and it's unlikely I would have found it without him.

 

He's very in charge in bed. At first, he was a like a wild dominating beast. I've tamed him a little, and he's responsive to direction. But he insists on being the leader in bed - and I prefer it that way, too.

 

He's rarely wishy-washy or indecisive about anything. He communicates his intentions clearly, confidently, and then carries them out. If he says he's going to do something, you can rely on it without fail.

 

We've had some minor disagreements about his more controlling nature - like the time he gave me an interrogation about how much I'd had to drink/smoke when I came home from a show with friends. But in that case, I got feisty very quick, and told him I wouldn't be treated like a criminal to be interrogated for having some fun on the weekend. He surrendered on that point, with little argument - then a few weekends later, he got a cigar for the evening and kept hinting about me toking up, so I eventually did (I generally don't smoke when we're together). I think that was his way of saying he accepts my vices and wants me to feel comfortable with having a little chemical fun, even when he's around. Of course, he felt much more at ease when he was "managing" the situation. He likes to be in charge.

 

He's definitely the most in control guy I've ever been with. He's generous and charming, but doesn't let anybody push him around. I recognize that if I'm going to be with a take-charge leader of a guy, it's a package deal. His tendency is always to lead the way - so if I want him to follow or surrender on certain points, I have to take the upper hand on those matters. As long as I prove that I can do as well or better than him on those points, he usually surrenders control.

[Drseussgrrl]

I agree that the masculine role, along with the family structure in general, have been distorted to nefarious ends in American culture in particular. Maybe it's to discourage more breeding, maybe it's to keep us more isolated and stuck in our little Matrix bubbles alone, who knows? But it's not good.

 

My boyfriend comes from a conservative background, and though he's very new world in some ways, he's more old world when it comes to relationships, dating, and marriage - and for the most part, I find it very appealing.

 

He said that no woman in his family, or any woman married to a man in his family, has ever had to work. But he understands my point that being financially dependent on a man is dangerous these days. He says he'd be happy to take care of me and our family for life, but would never stand in the way of my career. His primary goal in life has been to become a strong provider, so he can provide for his wife and children, and eventually his parents and other family members when/if they need it. He seems fulfilled with this, works very hard, and he's doing great so far.

 

He is somewhat paternal and enjoys advising me on problems in my life. He's good at it, too. The first time I really noticed this was when we were having dinner in a neighborhood I was considering moving to. He said, "This is a nice neighborhood. You can move here." I was like, "Really? Thanks, Dad!" haha But then I have to give him credit for taking charge of my apartment search and taking several decisive steps to help me land an amazing apartment in a gorgeous, vintage 2-flat home. This is by far the nicest place I've ever lived as an adult, and it's unlikely I would have found it without him.

 

He's very in charge in bed. At first, he was a like a wild dominating beast. I've tamed him a little, and he's responsive to direction. But he insists on being the leader in bed - and I prefer it that way, too.

 

He's rarely wishy-washy or indecisive about anything. He communicates his intentions clearly, confidently, and then carries them out. If he says he's going to do something, you can rely on it without fail.

 

We've had some minor disagreements about his more controlling nature - like the time he gave me an interrogation about how much I'd had to drink/smoke when I came home from a show with friends. But in that case, I got feisty very quick, and told him I wouldn't be treated like a criminal to be interrogated for having some fun on the weekend. He surrendered on that point, with little argument - then a few weekends later, he got a cigar for the evening and kept hinting about me toking up, so I eventually did (I generally don't smoke when we're together). I think that was his way of saying he accepts my vices and wants me to feel comfortable with having a little chemical fun, even when he's around. Of course, he felt much more at ease when he was "managing" the situation. He likes to be in charge.

 

He's definitely the most in control guy I've ever been with. He's generous and charming, but doesn't let anybody push him around. I recognize that if I'm going to be with a take-charge leader of a guy, it's a package deal. His tendency is always to lead the way - so if I want him to follow or surrender on certain points, I have to take the upper hand on those matters. As long as I prove that I can do as well or better than him on those points, he usually surrenders control.

 

Does your BF have a brother?

[Ruby Slippers]

Does your BF have a brother?

Yes... and he's about to propose to his girlfriend

[Imajerk17]

This is rather OT since we are talking about men, but I'd like to point out that it hasn't exactly been rosey for the girls, either.

 

We're expected to not only be educated, earn good salaries to supplement/match our men's, raise healthy well-adjusted kids, but do it all while also somehow maintaining our youthful figure and beauty. A badass in the boardroom and a source of nurture and femininity in the home. We wear a lot of hats.

 

So many times on this board I have seen men say that women sharply decline after 30. Do you know what kind of blow that is, the pressure to remain pretty and "in the game"?

 

Unfortunately, regardless of these recent societal changes, our biological makeup remains the same and so do our basic, different needs.

 

So which is it for us? Lock down a husband in our 20's (amongst a pool of men who are much less likely to commit than previous generations), raise a couple of kids and forgo a career? What if he leaves and I can't support myself? Or put the time and effort into a career that promises to comfortably earn for a family we someday wish to have, all the while having our biological clocks ticking impatiently away?

 

For the record, I've NEVER heard any of my independent female counterparts complain that a man planned a date or pulled out her chair at dinner. EVER.

 

Who said that exactly? You and a couple other women have said over and over how your feelings were hurt because someone who hasn't been named yet said women past 30 are over the hill. When I press any one of you to name names you all just stonewall. Just once though I'd love to see someone actually quoted on this (the bolded). I think it's just a Bitter Boy that has been banned.

 

As a guy, I AM seeing women in their 30s expecting "magic" on the first date. That is fine but if you have enough options to reasonably expect that, then you can't expect to be taken seriously whining about how you feel overlooked past 30 and how hurt you are because "an unnamed source" on LS said you were over-the-hill because you're past 30.

Edited July 2, 2013 by Imajerk17

[Drseussgrrl]

Who said that exactly? You and a couple other women have said over and over how your feelings were hurt because someone who hasn't been named yet said women past 30 are over the hill. When I press you to name names you all just stonewall. Just once though I'd love to see someone actually quoted on this (the bolded). I think it's just a Bitter Boy that has been banned.

 

As a guy, I AM seeing women in their 30s expecting "magic" on the first date. That's fine but if you have enough options to look for that, then you can't expect to be taken seriously whining about how you feel overlooked past 30 and how hurt you are because "an unnamed source" on LS said you were over-the-hill because you're past 30.

 

Well - I don't feel overlooked. Not in the slightest. And I don't need magic. Just chemistry. I don't think that's out of the question or too much to ask for, as it's happened for me in the past on more than one occasion.

 

I know what I like. Simple as that.

[Imajerk17]

Well - I don't feel overlooked. Not in the slightest. And I don't need magic. Just chemistry. I don't think that's out of the question or too much to ask for, as it's happened for me in the past on more than one occasion.

 

I know what I like. Simple as that.

 

If you don't feel overlooked, then why do you keep bringing it up over and over again about how "some unnamed source" on LS said women over 30 were over-the-hill and "what a blow" it is to you? Cripes. I'd really wish you'd just drop that for good, you don't have anything to complain about.

Edited July 2, 2013 by Imajerk17

[Drseussgrrl]

"I don't know why there's all this backslapping going on in this thread. It's been proven time and time again that women are at their most physically attractive in their early to mid 20s. This is when they command the most attention from men, are able to get men to invest in them the earliest... The most pursued demographic of any type of person is the 19-26 year old white female. They have the most sexual power in western society.

 

Granted, that doesn't mean women can't be attractive when they are older. Most of it will come down to genetics. If you are attractive at 22, if you eat right and do all the right things, chances are you will still be attractive at 32, with slight aging. Anything beyond the mid 30s is a crapshoot destined to fail, as both men and women start hitting the fan (physically) around that age.

 

All in all, I just see this as another effort for women to convince each other that they've "still got it" and try and get males to join in on the chorus. Older women are much more jaded and more unpleasant to be around than younger ones. Everybody gets more jaded as they age. The rare woman is the one that is able to keep an wide-eyed perspective on the world and not to get dragged down by her peers in shallow thinking."

 

Posted by Pompeii on June 26.

 

And I'm sorry Imajerk, but yes it does feel like you're chasing me around on threads lately, challenging all of my posts.

[miss_jaclynrae]

I agree that the masculine role, along with the family structure in general, have been distorted to nefarious ends in American culture in particular. Maybe it's to discourage more breeding, maybe it's to keep us more isolated and stuck in our little Matrix bubbles alone, who knows? But it's not good.

 

My boyfriend comes from a conservative background, and though he's very new world in some ways, he's more old world when it comes to relationships, dating, and marriage - and for the most part, I find it very appealing.

 

He said that no woman in his family, or any woman married to a man in his family, has ever had to work. But he understands my point that being financially dependent on a man is dangerous these days. He says he'd be happy to take care of me and our family for life, but would never stand in the way of my career. His primary goal in life has been to become a strong provider, so he can provide for his wife and children, and eventually his parents and other family members when/if they need it. He seems fulfilled with this, works very hard, and he's doing great so far.

 

He is somewhat paternal and enjoys advising me on problems in my life. He's good at it, too. The first time I really noticed this was when we were having dinner in a neighborhood I was considering moving to. He said, "This is a nice neighborhood. You can move here." I was like, "Really? Thanks, Dad!" haha But then I have to give him credit for taking charge of my apartment search and taking several decisive steps to help me land an amazing apartment in a gorgeous, vintage 2-flat home. This is by far the nicest place I've ever lived as an adult, and it's unlikely I would have found it without him.

 

He's very in charge in bed. At first, he was a like a wild dominating beast. I've tamed him a little, and he's responsive to direction. But he insists on being the leader in bed - and I prefer it that way, too.

 

He's rarely wishy-washy or indecisive about anything. He communicates his intentions clearly, confidently, and then carries them out. If he says he's going to do something, you can rely on it without fail.

 

We've had some minor disagreements about his more controlling nature - like the time he gave me an interrogation about how much I'd had to drink/smoke when I came home from a show with friends. But in that case, I got feisty very quick, and told him I wouldn't be treated like a criminal to be interrogated for having some fun on the weekend. He surrendered on that point, with little argument - then a few weekends later, he got a cigar for the evening and kept hinting about me toking up, so I eventually did (I generally don't smoke when we're together). I think that was his way of saying he accepts my vices and wants me to feel comfortable with having a little chemical fun, even when he's around. Of course, he felt much more at ease when he was "managing" the situation. He likes to be in charge.

 

He's definitely the most in control guy I've ever been with. He's generous and charming, but doesn't let anybody push him around. I recognize that if I'm going to be with a take-charge leader of a guy, it's a package deal. His tendency is always to lead the way - so if I want him to follow or surrender on certain points, I have to take the upper hand on those matters. As long as I prove that I can do as well or better than him on those points, he usually surrenders control.

 

 

 

None of these things sound earth shattering, he told you a good neighborhood to live in? That's the same as my guy wanting to meet whatever room mates I have and whatever area I plan to move into to make sure it's safe. I think any guy I have had a relationship with worries about my safety.

 

 

It's the controlling part that comes with old fashioned guys that I could live without. Easily. How you translate him urging you to take a puff off his cigar into wanton you to have chemical fun... Oy vey. You do realize that you don't inhale cigars, they are for taste only... No chemicals there. Somehow that makes him grilling you about a night out better?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Remind me to not take your advice.

A man can be decisive and protective and assertive without being controlling. I'm surprised by you, I would think if a man was to show any hint of being controlling you would drop him in a heartbeat.

[Imajerk17]

The poster you quoted is an Unsuccessful Guy. Is it really "such a blow" to you when an guy unsuccessful in dating makes a comment like that? Cripes. And by whining about such things as you did (when you already have enough options to be picky) you are actually supporting his viewpoint.

 

Sorry if it came across that way that I was following you. Not my intention at all. On the last thread I believe you commented on my post and then we had something of a "conversation" going. I was complimentary towards you personally even though I don't agree with your stance, but to each their own.

 

But your "such a blow" comment struck a nerve with me. I just wish you'd drop it, it comes across as whining about nothing.

Edited July 2, 2013 by Imajerk17

[Southern Cal Dude]

"I don't know why there's all this backslapping going on in this thread. It's been proven time and time again that women are at their most physically attractive in their early to mid 20s. This is when they command the most attention from men, are able to get men to invest in them the earliest... The most pursued demographic of any type of person is the 19-26 year old white female. They have the most sexual power in western society.

 

Granted, that doesn't mean women can't be attractive when they are older. Most of it will come down to genetics. If you are attractive at 22, if you eat right and do all the right things, chances are you will still be attractive at 32, with slight aging. Anything beyond the mid 30s is a crapshoot destined to fail, as both men and women start hitting the fan (physically) around that age.

 

All in all, I just see this as another effort for women to convince each other that they've "still got it" and try and get males to join in on the chorus. Older women are much more jaded and more unpleasant to be around than younger ones. Everybody gets more jaded as they age. The rare woman is the one that is able to keep an wide-eyed perspective on the world and not to get dragged down by her peers in shallow thinking."

 

Posted by Pompeii on June 26.

 

And I'm sorry Imajerk, but yes it does feel like you're chasing me around on threads lately, challenging all of my posts.

 

 

A post with no mention of aesthetic? OMG color me shocked!

[Drseussgrrl]

The poster you quoted is an Unsuccessful Guy. Is it really "such a blow" to you when an guy unsuccessful in dating makes a comment like that? Cripes. And by whining about such things as you did you are actually supporting his viewpoint.

 

Sorry if it came across that way that I was following you. Not my intention at all. On the last thread I believe you commented on my post and then we had something of a "conversation" going. I was complimentary towards you personally even though I don't agree with your stance, but to each their own.

 

But your "such a blow" comment struck a nerve with me. I wish you'd drop it, it comes across as whining about nothing.

 

Not really sure why it would. After all it's no secret that in our 30's women have to try much harder to maintain our figures/looks. Which I do. Not every woman does though and yeah, a lot of them are way past their peaks due to lack of maintenance. But a lot of these "unsuccessful guys" or whatever you want to call them simply can't or won't believe that you can be just as sexy in your 30's.

 

I think I need to take a break from this site.

[Imajerk17]

Not really sure why it would. After all it's no secret that in our 30's women have to try much harder to maintain our figures/looks. Which I do. Not every woman does though and yeah, a lot of them are way past their peaks due to lack of maintenance. But a lot of these "unsuccessful guys" or whatever you want to call them simply can't or won't believe that you can be just as sexy in your 30's.

 

I think I need to take a break from this site.

 

Well so do men. Many guys getting up into their 30s fear being the creepy old guy. But they won't be taken seriously if they were to complain about how it is "such a blow" when they hear of young girls complaining about being hit on by older guys.

 

No basis for you to play the victim card as you did.

[Drseussgrrl]

Well so do men. Many guys getting up into their 30s fear being the creepy old guy. But they won't be taken seriously if they were to complain about how it is "such a blow" when they hear of young girls complaining about being hit on by older guys.

 

No basis for you to play the victim card as you did.

 

I don't really see how I played the victim card. I pointed out the obvious and even provided an example when you asked for one. I mean, how would you feel if a woman (or women) on this site (regardless of who) bashed on short dudes? That was just one example I provided from that thread.

 

Repeatedly, the women here rally and say it doesn't matter.

[Drseussgrrl]

WHINER lol this is why young 20's hotties are best

 

Go indulge yourself, then, homeslice. There's a poster here named ImperfectionisBeauty who you'd get along swimmingly with. She's 22.

[dasein]

Didn't read the whole thread. Many women are perpetually malcontented, and seek to blameshift everything they don't like in their lives onto men as a gender. That's why they take seemingly contradictory positions like a shifting breeze, to more easily assign blame via setting up Catch 22s. After all, basic reasoning is not required for that kind of femthink.

[Imajerk17]

I don't really see how I played the victim card. I pointed out the obvious and even provided an example when you asked for one. I mean, how would you feel if a woman (or women) on this site (regardless of who) bashed on short dudes? That was just one example I provided from that thread.

 

Repeatedly, the women here rally and say it doesn't matter.

 

Well, actually short guys hear it all the time, and not from some chump on LS, but instead from someone they might actually want to date. I tend to fall well under the minimum height requirements listed by most of the women I write, AND I have read a couple profiles explicitly asking for a guy over 5'10". That said I've never complained about that. People like what they like. And every time a short dude whines about his height (or his looks) I shoot him down.

 

Well here you are whining about how it is "such a blow" that some random wet-behind-the-ears poster [the example you provided] said women over 30 were were over-the-hill. Cripes. (The same poster also said *men* over 35 were over-the-hill too but maybe you missed that. Anyway I digress.) And so I am calling you out on that here. The difference between you and the short dudes is that you have options and you are picky, while most of the short dudes do not have options and are not picky. So, what are you complaining about again?

Edited July 2, 2013 by Imajerk17

[Drseussgrrl]

Well, actually short guys hear it all the time, and not from some chump on LS, but instead from someone they might actually want to date. I fall well under the minimum height requirements listed by most of the women I write. That said I've never complained about that. People like what they like. And every time a short dude whines about his height (or his looks) I shoot him down.

 

Well that was what you were doing--whining--about how it is "such a blow" that some wet-behind-the-ears poster said women over 30 were were over-the-hill. Cripes. (The same poster also said *men* over 35 were over-the-hill too but maybe you missed that. Anyway I digress.) And so I am calling you out on that. The difference between you and the short dudes is that you have options and you are picky, while most of the short dudes do not have options and are not picky. So, what are you complaining about again?

 

Imajerk you picked out one thing out of a very (which I considered) thoughtful post about how women have it just as hard dating. It tied in to the whole point that a lot more is expected of us now than it was back in the "good ol' days", and the problem being, our fertility still has an expiration date regardless of some tough life choices we're forced to make along the way. What say you to any of those other points?

 

Men don't have this issue. Point being - we struggle in different ways.

 

I'm not sure why it struck you as "whining" or playing the victim when a woman's age is thrown in her face, because for some, the chance for a family decreases dramatically as time goes on and that's a very scary reality for some women who struggle with dating. Add on top of that you're unattractive and well you don't have all the time in the world to "work on your personality".

 

The bottom line is, women are expected to, as you put it, stop being so picky just because we have options. Well - frankly I don't believe I've been picky ENOUGH.

[Ruby Slippers]

It tied in to the whole point that a lot more is expected of us now than it was back in the "good ol' days", and the problem being, our fertility still has an expiration date regardless of some tough life choices we're forced to make along the way.

I totally hear you on all the points you're making.

 

One of the things I discussed with my boyfriend, when he was suggesting I just move in with him and let him support me, is the fact that a lot of men - even men who think they want that traditional husband-wife scenario - soon get bored with a wife who devotes her entire being to homemaking and mothering. And women who thought that's all they wanted are often dismayed to find that it bores them and doesn't fully fulfill them. There's an interesting book called Passages: Predictable Crises of Adult Life, which talks about this phenomenon.

 

We live in a Pandora's Box world, where anyone can do or be anything (in theory). It's hard to live a simple life when you're surrounded by so much complexity. It can be done - but living in a way that many will judge as outmoded takes strong commitment and devotion from both partners.

 

I think one thing working in my favor in my relationship is that both my boyfriend and I have always marched to the beat of our own drum. I've never concerned myself too much with what people think of me and their expectations for how I should live. He's the same way.

 

Despite all the static swirling around us, your average man or woman is freer to choose what to do with our lives than ever before. The thing is - you have to choose for yourself, rather than be swept along in what other people, society at large, and the unfeeling machine wants for you.