SoulJazzBlues Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 I didn't know that. Let's assume you are right... I can come up with more... Jimmy Carter. He might not have been the best president, but he's done a great deal for the world. He hasn't cheated. In fact, a lot of the things he predicted ultimately came true. He tried to institute a renewable energy policy during the oil crisis that ended up getting shot down by the oil lobbies... He was ahead of his time if you ask me. Lots of people consider him a 'wimp', but he was an officer in the Navy and did make it all the way to highest office. You don't get there by being a 'wimp', that is for sure. He is a good example of strength + warmth in a man. Nelson Mandela? He's in the news a lot recently. Another man of commitment. I think you are being impressed by these men's public image. Mandela was an adulterer and so was MLK. Commitment and strength in their political 'work' life does not mean anything in their personal lives. 1
joystickd Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 Those women tick me off to no end. But then again, how do you define "friend-zoning"? Literally as in these women are interested, but based on one or two things to do with the guy, never take it a step further? In that case, yes, that is pretty irritating. Some of the people who say they've been friend-zoned fail to realize it's not the case; that the woman just isn't attracted to them, period. After all, we can't control who we're not attracted to, anymore than we can control who we are attracted to. Then just be honest and say "I'm not into you". 1
Woggle Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 I didn't know that. Let's assume you are right... I can come up with more... Jimmy Carter. He might not have been the best president, but he's done a great deal for the world. He hasn't cheated. In fact, a lot of the things he predicted ultimately came true. He tried to institute a renewable energy policy during the oil crisis that ended up getting shot down by the oil lobbies... He was ahead of his time if you ask me. Lots of people consider him a 'wimp', but he was an officer in the Navy and did make it all the way to highest office. You don't get there by being a 'wimp', that is for sure. He is a good example of strength + warmth in a man. Nelson Mandela? He's in the news a lot recently. Another man of commitment. I actually think America would have been better off if Carter won instead of Reagan but I clearly not the majority opinion. Most people see him as a laughingstock and Reagan trounced him. People like him sadly are not respected and when I was younger I looked up to Scumbags as well. My idol when I was a child was John Gotti because in my mind mobsters had respect, money, women and all that. It was only when I got older that I realized what they are really about but the reason people idolize them as because even if for a brief moment they achieve the results that seem increasingly out of reach for the nice guys. Nice guys are often treated like society's doormats and most people don't want to be a doormat. 1
joystickd Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 I think you are being impressed by these men's public image. Mandela was an adulterer and so was MLK. Commitment and strength in their political 'work' life does not mean anything in their personal lives. Has a thing for the cheaters I guess
Woggle Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 I'm not really sure what you're talking about here, honestly. If a man plans a fun date, and she doesn't like it, she treats him like crap? Sorry- I've never seen this happen. No, men don't need to "make all the decisions". Take some initiative and implement some thoughtfulness and creativity, yes. LOVE that. Why does this amount to some sort of "control" and "making all the decisions"? That's not what I have EVER conveyed at all. That is what it was like in my first marriage. She refused to make any decisions but I made one that she didn't like and it was WWIII.
SJC2008 Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 I didn't know that. Let's assume you are right... I can come up with more... Jimmy Carter. He might not have been the best president, but he's done a great deal for the world. He hasn't cheated. In fact, a lot of the things he predicted ultimately came true. He tried to institute a renewable energy policy during the oil crisis that ended up getting shot down by the oil lobbies... He was ahead of his time if you ask me. Lots of people consider him a 'wimp', but he was an officer in the Navy and did make it all the way to highest office. You don't get there by being a 'wimp', that is for sure. He is a good example of strength + warmth in a man. Nelson Mandela? He's in the news a lot recently. Another man of commitment. I'm not too familiar with the details of his presidency but I know that he doesn't have a good reputation as a president. The sad thing is that for as "bad" of a president he was, he didn't drop ONE bomb during his entire term. 1
SoulJazzBlues Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 Has a thing for the cheaters I guess Nobody likes a cheating man... Unless they are powerful. 1
MrCastle Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 I didn't know that. Let's assume you are right... I can come up with more... Jimmy Carter. He might not have been the best president, but he's done a great deal for the world. He hasn't cheated. In fact, a lot of the things he predicted ultimately came true. He tried to institute a renewable energy policy during the oil crisis that ended up getting shot down by the oil lobbies... He was ahead of his time if you ask me. Lots of people consider him a 'wimp', but he was an officer in the Navy and did make it all the way to highest office. You don't get there by being a 'wimp', that is for sure. He is a good example of strength + warmth in a man. Nelson Mandela? He's in the news a lot recently. Another man of commitment. There are many men throughout history you can look towards. But I am speaking more towards the representation of men in the media. Where are these MLK and Ghandi characters in television? The stereotypes I mentioned in my lengthy post are most of what you see. Where is the father doing his best to raise his kids the best way he knows how? The smart, focused man who puts his career and endeavors ahead of vagina? The suave man who knows how to charm women. Not the bumbling nerd who faints when a girl shakes his hand. Where are these characters that express and endorse masculine strength? Especially in situations that pertain to dating. The media as a whole paints the straight man as pussy begging slackers who have no interests outside of getting laid. Some of the shows I listed I love. Modern Family, King Of Queens, Big Bang -- they're funny! But those are the only types you see now. 1
Drseussgrrl Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 That is what it was like in my first marriage. She refused to make any decisions but I made one that she didn't like and it was WWIII. Well that's why you're divorced!
Woggle Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 I'm not too familiar with the details of his presidency but I know that he doesn't have a good reputation as a president. The sad thing is that for as "bad" of a president he was, he didn't drop ONE bomb during his entire term. It's probably why he was seen as weak. Reagan came at a time when there was a serious backlash against the liberalism of the 60s and 70s and he capitalized on that.
joystickd Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 There are many men throughout history you can look towards. But I am speaking more towards the representation of men in the media. Where are these MLK and Ghandi characters in television? The stereotypes I mentioned in my lengthy post are most of what you see. Where is the father doing his best to raise his kids the best way he knows how? The smart, focused man who puts his career and endeavors ahead of vagina? The suave man who knows how to charm women. Not the bumbling nerd who faints when a girl shakes his hand. Where are these characters that express and endorse masculine strength? Especially in situations that pertain to dating. The media as a whole paints the straight man as pussy begging slackers who have no interests outside of getting laid. Some of the shows I listed I love. Modern Family, King Of Queens, Big Bang -- they're funny! But those are the only types you see now. Its why i read books about players and pimps
Woggle Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 Well that's why you're divorced! Than god for that and I am in a much much better marriage with a woman who actually does her part in the decision making process.
JustAReformedGirl Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 Then just be honest and say "I'm not into you". I think you're confused. I wasn't saying I'm one of those people, lol. I am honest, if someone is interested in me, and the feeling isn't mutual. Honestly though, it's happened in the reverse more. I never held it against the guy for not feeling that way about me. I knew it wasn't a conscious choice on their part. 2
Drseussgrrl Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 i certainly don't. I like planning dates and want to meet a woman who wants to follow my lead but in a healthy way. I don't want to be some controlling dictator who calls all the shots nor do i want a scenario in your above quote. The way i see it is if i plan a date and she doesn't like it for whatever reason i'm 100% ok with it but then it's time for her to put her big girl panties on and make a suggestion. I'm not going to salvo options to her until i hit on somethings. ^^^^^^ this.
joystickd Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 I think you're confused. I wasn't saying I'm one of those people, lol. I am honest, if someone is interested in me, and the feeling isn't mutual. Honestly though, it's happened in the reverse more. I never held it against the guy for not feeling that way about me. I knew it wasn't a conscious choice on their part. Men though if not interested will say it. If they don't want a relationship they say it. Women though find ways to avoid saying it. It's like they hate to be the bad guy in the situation.
RedRobin Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 IF you actually had some good role models you wouldn't be bitter. When I took the pimp label it wasn't an improvement. Pimps are more in control than the average man. The pimp game I'm talking about the women enter it by choice not by force, but when you haven't been exposed to that life you will never understand it and think the depictions of "B**tch betta have my money are commonplace". Ghandi wouldn't be a good role model for me because he didn't really like Black people. If MLK really knew that he wouldn't have held him in such high regard. Don't confuse constructive criticism with bitterness. I'm not obliged to grace everything some men choose to do just because they happened to be born with an outty. That includes you. Not sure what you are talking about with Ghandi. Many 'untouchables' are quite dark... He helped break down the caste barrier in his own country. Do you actually even know any Indian people? I know lots. I'm sure MLK wasn't an idiot. He supported Ghandi's approach.... Constructive non-violence. It worked. ... and I do know a few things about the 'pimp' lifestyle'. I have an ex-BF who was the chief investigator for the DA's office for many years... he told me all about how pimps slowly 'work' young girls into a life of prostitution. It ain't pretty. If that is your version of 'manhood' and your example of 'power', then you are proving my point perfectly. 1
SJC2008 Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 It's probably why he was seen as weak. Reagan came at a time when there was a serious backlash against the liberalism of the 60s and 70s and he capitalized on that. Sounds about right. As much as Americans hate war, as soon as we're not up someones ass the president is too soft. Reagan was a very good politician.
JustAReformedGirl Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 Men though if not interested will say it. If they don't want a relationship they say it. Women though find ways to avoid saying it. It's like they hate to be the bad guy in the situation. In general, I'll agree. However, I have seen men do the exact same thing that women (in general) do, just to avoid confrontation. I know guys that have no compunction about getting into a heated argument or fist fight; these same guys abhor verbal confrontation, especially when it involves the possibility of hurting someone's feelings. 1
joystickd Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 Don't confuse constructive criticism with bitterness. I'm not obliged to grace everything some men choose to do just because they happened to be born with an outty. That includes you. Not sure what you are talking about with Ghandi. Many 'untouchables' are quite dark... He helped break down the caste barrier in his own country. Do you actually even know any Indian people? I know lots. I'm sure MLK wasn't an idiot. He supported Ghandi's approach.... Constructive non-violence. It worked. ... and I do know a few things about the 'pimp' lifestyle'. I have an ex-BF who was the chief investigator for the DA's office for many years... he told me all about how pimps slowly 'work' young girls into a life of prostitution. It ain't pretty. If that is your version of 'manhood' and your example of 'power', then you are proving my point perfectly. Come on now what you say is not constructive criticism and many other on this forum agree it's bitterness. I know plenty of Indian people, but were talking about African here. Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan Gandhism.net : The Truth Shall Make You Free Those few things you know about the life are nothing. Come on and arrested person will say anything to save their a$$.
Woggle Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 People admire pimps, drug dealers, gangsters etc because they achieve the results that are increasingly out of reach for honest and hardworking people. In an age when life is a daily struggle for many people who do the right thing and the powers that be plus the corporate world seem rotten to the core when a poor or working class person cheats their way to the top people want to cheer them. When society itself is seen as unjust those who break the rules to get a slice of the good life can be very attractive. 2
Author questionlife Posted July 2, 2013 Author Posted July 2, 2013 I like being told what to do in the bedroom, but that's the only place. It's interesting you say that... I dance salsa alot, and actually help friends teach it (as there are often many more women than men in the classes and they need extra men to help) and I think one of the reasons women are so attracted to salsa dancing is because it is another place where men are supposed to (in fact, they have to!) take the lead I think given that women have so much control and power over every other aspect of their lives now, they actually like salsa dancing because it allows them to be led Its' probably the only place beside the bedroom I would dare 'tell' a woman what to do
joystickd Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 If that is your version of 'manhood' and your example of 'power', then you are proving my point perfectly. Your bitterness proves your point because you see only what satisfies your beliefs about men. Funny how the men you admire are cheaters lol
joystickd Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 People admire pimps, drug dealers, gangsters etc because they achieve the results that are increasingly out of reach for honest and hardworking people. In an age when life is a daily struggle for many people who do the right thing and the powers that be plus the corporate world seem rotten to the core when a poor or working class person cheats their way to the top people want to cheer them. When society itself is seen as unjust those who break the rules to get a slice of the good life can be very attractive. I will say that for pimps. I admire them but it's for the qualities any man can use and apply to his everyday dealings with women.
Woggle Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 I don't admire pimps. The image you see of the sharply dressed man in a pimped out ride talking slickly is not the way most of them are.
RedRobin Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 I think you are being impressed by these men's public image. Mandela was an adulterer and so was MLK. Commitment and strength in their political 'work' life does not mean anything in their personal lives. I'm not being impressed by their public image. Maybe I'm just not privy to this other information about their lives... that I've never heard of before. Help me out and name some positive black male role models in the public eye who weren't cheaters then. Obama?? Who else?
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