MrCastle Posted July 1, 2013 Posted July 1, 2013 This is rather OT since we are talking about men, but I'd like to point out that it hasn't exactly been rosey for the girls, either. We're expected to not only be educated, earn good salaries to supplement/match our men's, raise healthy well-adjusted kids, but do it all while also somehow maintaining our youthful figure and beauty. A badass in the boardroom and a source of nurture and femininity in the home. We wear a lot of hats. So many times on this board I have seen men say that women sharply decline after 30. Do you know what kind of blow that is, the pressure to remain pretty and "in the game"? Unfortunately, regardless of these recent societal changes, our biological makeup remains the same and so do our basic, different needs. So which is it for us? Lock down a husband in our 20's (amongst a pool of men who are much less likely to commit than previous generations), raise a couple of kids and forgo a career? What if he leaves and I can't support myself? Or put the time and effort into a career that promises to comfortably earn for a family we someday wish to have, all the while having our biological clocks ticking impatiently away? For the record, I've NEVER heard any of my independent female counterparts complain that a man planned a date or pulled out her chair at dinner. EVER. This is simply not true. There is data to support otherwise.
Woggle Posted July 1, 2013 Posted July 1, 2013 I think more men would try those old fashioned ways of dating if they actually worked. I think men avoid commitment because in many cases there is nothing in it for them. Look at how many men in relationships get treated these days. Who needs it. Also the way it seems that some women view any emotion from a man as a sign of weakness why not just have FWBs? Why commit to a woman who demands you be a cold robot? I hear a lot of men these days say they can't win with women and it's exhausting trying to please them. 1
crude Posted July 1, 2013 Posted July 1, 2013 Suddenly now you have women saying "Hey don't pull my chair out for me! What do you think, I'm not capable of doing it myself?! I'm a woman!" You have men now, not sure when to be dominant and when to let her take the lead. Especially since not every woman feels the same. Some women want to be totally in charge, others want the old system of dating where the man was the lead in everything, and then you have those that are in between. Well, this confuses men as a whole, because they do not want to come across as creepy, or perverted, or overbearing, or overly macho, etc. So now you have men like "Well, should I call her first? What if she is one of those chicks who likes to initiate convo first? Should I wait for her? Do I ask her if she wants to have sex or will I seem like a pervert? Will she tell me outright when she wants it? What happens if I smack her butt in bed, will she be offended? Is that misogynistic? In 1/3 of the time it took you to type that, I could tell a woman if I pay for the first date I consider it to be her turn on a 2nd, I want an equal relationship, no monkey jumping through hoops, and I know what the relationship books say and it's an insult to my intelligence if she uses that BS on me. She then decides if she's my kind of woman and I'm her type, or we both say "next". No confusion. Just be honest instead of wondering. The same thing applies to all aspects of any relationship.
Woggle Posted July 1, 2013 Posted July 1, 2013 This is rather OT since we are talking about men, but I'd like to point out that it hasn't exactly been rosey for the girls, either. We're expected to not only be educated, earn good salaries to supplement/match our men's, raise healthy well-adjusted kids, but do it all while also somehow maintaining our youthful figure and beauty. A badass in the boardroom and a source of nurture and femininity in the home. We wear a lot of hats. So many times on this board I have seen men say that women sharply decline after 30. Do you know what kind of blow that is, the pressure to remain pretty and "in the game"? Unfortunately, regardless of these recent societal changes, our biological makeup remains the same and so do our basic, different needs. So which is it for us? Lock down a husband in our 20's (amongst a pool of men who are much less likely to commit than previous generations), raise a couple of kids and forgo a career? What if he leaves and I can't support myself? Or put the time and effort into a career that promises to comfortably earn for a family we someday wish to have, all the while having our biological clocks ticking impatiently away? For the record, I've NEVER heard any of my independent female counterparts complain that a man planned a date or pulled out her chair at dinner. EVER. Don't listen to the men who want to bash women over 30. Despite what they say tend to find women of all ages attractive. I don't think it is all great for women and I am sure they have plenty of issues that I can't begin to understand but overall I do believe men are easier to please. A lot of men these days don't know whether they are coming or going with women. It seems that what many of them want seems to change by the week and if we fail to guess what they want at that specific moment there is hell to pay. Who needs that crap? 1
joystickd Posted July 1, 2013 Posted July 1, 2013 You can choose whatever role models you like. One thing I witness though, is that masculinity has somehow been equated these days to avoiding commitment... in all it's forms really. Where in past days... commitment and taking on responsibility was a rite of passage for every man... Not just to a woman, but with their work, their community... something. Commit to something Mr. Castle, is what I'm saying with my previous post. You think that is what masculinity is equated to these days. Bitterness is a horrible thing. I hope you do realize every man is not after ONS. Why have so much negativity towards men if you can also say they are capable of more? Why with your attitude towards men would a man even show you he was capable of more? 2
Drseussgrrl Posted July 1, 2013 Posted July 1, 2013 Don't listen to the men who want to bash women over 30. Despite what they say tend to find women of all ages attractive. I don't think it is all great for women and I am sure they have plenty of issues that I can't begin to understand but overall I do believe men are easier to please. A lot of men these days don't know whether they are coming or going with women. It seems that what many of them want seems to change by the week and if we fail to guess what they want at that specific moment there is hell to pay. Who needs that crap? Well it hasn't been any easier for me, either. In the last 2 years I've been dating, I'll meet a guy I like, be sure to demonstrate active interest, things will be going swimmingly and I'll get the old, "I'm not ready for a relationship" bomb. Guess I just haven't met my dude yet. 1
SweetiePie12 Posted July 1, 2013 Posted July 1, 2013 the 'gold old days' where men controlled the money, work and pretty much everything else in their lives... A man I love is really good with money. I wouldn't mind if he allocated funds which I earn back to me in portions. He'd stretch my dollars far further than I and hold me accountable for what I spend. If I tell I date to "get dressed, I'm taking you out to dinner" she'd love it! If I tell her to "get undressed, I'm coming over for sex" she'd (probably) hate it! Depends on the woman (heh heh!). Depends on how she feels about you, too, by the way. 1
joystickd Posted July 1, 2013 Posted July 1, 2013 Well it hasn't been any easier for me, either. In the last 2 years I've been dating, I'll meet a guy I like, be sure to demonstrate active interest, things will be going swimmingly and I'll get the old, "I'm not ready for a relationship" bomb. Guess I just haven't met my dude yet. Not ready for a relationship is the equivalent of women's let's just be friends. When you are truly ready the man that wants to be in a relationship with YOU will come along. It's a shame women still don't get that a man that doesn't want to commit is not always afraid of commitment but he just doesn't want to commit to YOU for whatever reason he has. 2
MrCastle Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 Men want kids more than ever before. Since 1965, according to new research from the Pew Research Center, the amount of time fathers spend with their children has nearly tripled. In 2011, the largest study of singles ever undertaken showed that currently, young unmarried men want children slightly more than young unmarried women do. Another study showed that men not only want children more than women do but that they also become more depressed and jealous when they don't have them.[/Quote] Can read the rest of it here if you want. It's about fatherhood Why Fatherhood Matters - Fathers Day - Esquire You can use google to find actual numbers or whatever--but let's kill the notion that all men just want to sleep around. If he says he doesn't want a relationship, he means with you specifically. Just like (as joystick said) women friend zone men, men friends with benefit zone women. 1
SJC2008 Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 I agree with this 100%. You can't demonize masculinity then complain when men act more feminine. This is really a case of be careful what you wish for. A lot of women demanded this change and now that they have it they aren't happy and men are just throwing their hands and saying the hell with it because they think women are never pleased. It's funny you mention this as I was about to make a thread about it. My uncle and I talk about dating and women a lot. We relate to eaother and talk about how are families were very dysfunctional and why we wind up with the controlling women we do. Anyway, he said in the 60's women started their feminst movements and said men aren't sensitive enough etc and we gave them what they wanted. Now there is this stigma of women don't like nice guys. We're taught to not confess our feelings to a woman first, don't ever be vulnerable with a woman. The point is that women shouldn't define what a man should be and it goes both ways ladies. I'm going to be the man that I want to be and there is a woman out there who will like me for who I am 100%. 3
Woggle Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 Why would a man want to get into a relationship with a woman when simply showing affection can be considered weakness? There is a thread going that says just that. If men are emotionally closed off we are wrong for that and are guilty of emotional neglect but if we aren't we are needy momma's boys. Also many younger men commit only to have the woman they love catch a bad case of GIGS leaving us wondering what the hell is going on. At the same time we see women tear themselves into pieces over some player who treated her as an option. If you were a single man seeing this which position would you rather be in? The good loyal guy who gets thrown aside so she can go wild or the player who twists herself into knots over? I would rather be neither but given the choice most men would choose the latter. Sometimes it is easier for a guy to turn to his video games and porn which are mostly drama free. 1
Drseussgrrl Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 Can read the rest of it here if you want. It's about fatherhood Why Fatherhood Matters - Fathers Day - Esquire You can use google to find actual numbers or whatever--but let's kill the notion that all men just want to sleep around. If he says he doesn't want a relationship, he means with you specifically. Just like (as joystick said) women friend zone men, men friends with benefit zone women. I'm fully aware that not ALL men just want to sleep around. But please recognize that dating nowadays is just as hard for women, as it is for you men. I hear repeatedly that as a woman as long as you're somewhat attractive and have a pulse, it's a cakewalk. This couldn't be further from the truth. 2
Woggle Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 I'm fully aware that not ALL men just want to sleep around. But please recognize that dating nowadays is just as hard for women, as it is for you men. I hear repeatedly that as a woman as long as you're somewhat attractive and have a pulse, it's a cakewalk. This couldn't be further from the truth. I am aware that women have their issues but it seems that whenever we hear about the sorry state of modern relationships men usually get the blame. Can we at least admit that both genders have contributed to the current state of affairs? 1
MrCastle Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 I'm fully aware that not ALL men just want to sleep around. But please recognize that dating nowadays is just as hard for women, as it is for you men. I hear repeatedly that as a woman as long as you're somewhat attractive and have a pulse, it's a cakewalk. This couldn't be further from the truth. It's hard for both but in different ways. If we are talking casual sex and the ability to get dates, women do have it easier. If we are talking the desire to settle down exclusively, men have it easier. Women are usually the ones to ask "what are we, where is this going?" and the man decides what they're going to be. Men hold the relationship card over women, women hold the sex card over men. 3
Drseussgrrl Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 It's hard for both but in different ways. If we are talking casual sex and the ability to get dates, women do have it easier. If we are talking the desire to settle down exclusively, men have it easier. Women are usually the ones to ask "what are we, where is this going?" and the man decides what they're going to be. Men hold the relationship card over women, women hold the sex card over men.[/quote I agree with this. 1
joystickd Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 Men hold the relationship card over women, women hold the sex card over men. Which explains why women have issues with men after sex and men have issues with women before sex. 3
Woggle Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 It's hard for both but in different ways. If we are talking casual sex and the ability to get dates, women do have it easier. If we are talking the desire to settle down exclusively, men have it easier. Women are usually the ones to ask "what are we, where is this going?" and the man decides what they're going to be. Men hold the relationship card over women, women hold the sex card over men. I don't think that men hold that card. When a woman catches GIGS and strings a man along while she sows her wild oats is he holding that card? When man's who thought he was happily married gets the I love you but I am not in love with you speech is he holding that card?
miss_jaclynrae Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 Watch more romantic comedies.Because I said so, notebook, the holiday... The list goes on. All charming, emotional, romantic, headstrong men who know what they want. I like to think that if more men watched them and followed suit, more men and women would be happy. Lol Just saying, there are good role models in media, men just write off "white knight" types of those movies and therefore they are overlooked. My man LOVES romantic comedies, he watches them more than anything else, an I can honestly say he is the one that made me believe men like that actually do exist. He is a man who is supportive, headstrong, ambitious, artistic, in touch with his emotions, and is just an amazing partner.
joystickd Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 I am aware that women have their issues but it seems that whenever we hear about the sorry state of modern relationships men usually get the blame. Can we at least admit that both genders have contributed to the current state of affairs? I will agree. I will say with women another big issue with them is a problem to fully articulate what they want in a man or what they want in general. Part of why is because what makes them want that is an emotional trigger. For example a woman says she wants a sensitive man but fails to fully explain what she want and meets a man that is sensitive or comes across a few men that are sensitive but not the idea of what she wants. This is the reason for the flood of nice guy threads. The specifics of what a nice guy is are totally missed. A woman's idea and a man's idea of it are totally different. 2
MrCastle Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 I don't think that men hold that card. When a woman catches GIGS and strings a man along while she sows her wild oats is he holding that card? When man's who thought he was happily married gets the I love you but I am not in love with you speech is he holding that card? While those things do happen, I'd say it's more common for a woman and a man to sleep together casually until the woman finally decides enough is enough and wants to know once and for all what they are (secretly hoping he agrees to a relationship) -- in that instance, the man decides for both parties. Yes, we can be exclusive, or no, we will not be exclusive. I'd say the majority of relationships start out with the woman asking the man for an R and not the other way around. 5
Woggle Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 While those things do happen, I'd say it's more common for a woman and a man to sleep together casually until the woman finally decides enough is enough and wants to know once and for all what they are (secretly hoping he agrees to a relationship) -- in that instance, the man decides for both parties. Yes, we can be exclusive, or no, we will not be exclusive. I'd say the majority of relationships start out with the woman asking the man for an R and not the other way around. Most of the time men hold the cards before the relationship while women hold the cards while in the relationship. 1
Drseussgrrl Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 They say that before sex, a woman's eyes are wide open. After sex, a man's are. 1
joystickd Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 I'd say the majority of relationships start out with the woman asking the man for an R and not the other way around. I agree but the funny thing about is when you as a man seek out an R you never find one but when you want casual every woman you deal with wants to lock you down in an R. 2
ThaWholigan Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 I disagree with both of you guys, I think it varies between individuals. For some women, they hold the cards before relationships due to their own preferences, mannerisms and wants. For others, it's after, or during. Same with men.
Woggle Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 I agree but the funny thing about is when you as a man seek out an R you never find one but when you want casual every woman you deal with wants to lock you down in an R. So so true. I had a FWB who thought that love was pathetic and actually had contempt for men that fell for her. I went in wanting nothing more than casual and she fell for me hard to the point of almost becoming a stalker. 1
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