Is this a healthy realtionship? Should I suck it up and stay with my girlfriend?

October 18, 2004

Hello,

Thanks to everyone for the incredibly constructive advice on this forum, I've enjoyed reading it in the past. I have mulled over this post for more than a few months so I hope it doesn't come out as TOO conflated and cathartic. I just want to get a few things in my head straightened out.

This is my dilemma. I am living and working as an English teacher in Vietnam and am now in a 6 month old relationship with a Vietnamese girl. She is well educated, speaks English fluently, comes from a very solid family, has a good job and she is deeply in love with me and I believe in her completely. I trust her more than anybody I've ever met outside my family.

We seem to get along very well. When she speaks I am interested in what she has to say. Her thoughts are solid and I respect her as a person.

I am quite attracted her and when my heart is open and I am not in a "mood," I am satisfied with our sexual relationship. She tells me she is also very happy with things as well and I believe her. When things become a little mundane she is more than interested to make me happy. She has even found out things about my own desires that surprised me and satisfied me more than I thought possible.

She supports me in my attempts to start new projects and become a better person. She genuinely wants me to be happy and healthy.

I suppose that is enough to establish the groundwork for my problem.

I am almost certain I have manic depression. I believe this has happened because of a great deal of death in my family. I have no one to confide in my family. I have never had any long term friends. I usually have deep intense relationships with girls that last only a few weeks and then I rarely speak to these lovers again. But I want to make a change this time around.

My unstable feelings oscillate from utter despair to contempt for my girlfriend and for my own life. I am constantly in a battle between leaving this wonderful girl and thinking about my own death in the process and asking her to marry me. We have talked about marriage and in more "sober"(ie. non-manic) times we both agreed it is something we both want.

But I have an enormous hole in my heart. After six weeks into the relationship I awoke in a panic and very strong feeling that I didn't love her, I even said it outloud to myself. However I had already told her that I loved her because I felt that I truly did, not just when we were naked and my libido was on over-drive. My feelings for her were pure. She had already said so as well. For the last 5 months or so I have battled daily with the question of my love. Do I love her or am I just lonely because of my past?

It seems that in spite of my doubt I have trudged ahead in the relationship, because, as I mentioned, she is truly a gem, a more stable man would have already married her if given the chance. Her last relationship lasted 5 years(she is now 24 and I am 29) but she broke it off because she didn't feel her lover understood her at all, she admits that she didn't love him after the frist year because of their differences but she "hoped he would become a bigger man after time."

I feel a horrible pain in my heart. I feel like this isn't a good love. I obsess over my emptiness. Most times I feel terrible anxiety that I just need to leave her to live her life, but once in a while, maybe once a week or more I feel traces of her warmth and I can FEEL the love between us and I am ecstatic and my tears are of joy if ever so brief. But while it lasts for a second or two, my anxiety over the relationship dominates 99% of my conscious thoughts. I'm worried though, is this love is just a sexual joy or lust? And if and when this lust wanes, I will really suffer the fall-out of my actions. In my eyes, a loveless commitment is a horrible mistake to make when you are young and free.

There are a few minor problems in the relationship and we have argued a little about them, about once a week these conflicts have arrived. But I don't think they have much bearing on what is going on in my head. We argue about hand-holding and hugging. I feel like she ismindlessly clinging to me with all her might and I want to breathe a little when we are with eachother. We both accept it is something we have to work on. We can be jealous of one another when we talk about our social life without each other. But we DO have independent social lives, so again, not too much to worry about.

BUT what I really want to know is, what is this pain I feel? Is this really a mistake? Is this why I feel so much pain? To feel less pain do I need to find another lover and life partner? Is this pain my inner mind telling me that I am wasting my time? Or is the pain something more constructive? Is it telling me to get straightened out to become a better person to start laying the foundation of a family?

In the last few months I have tried my best to alleviate the pain on my own. I have gone to accupuncture, with relative scuccess at easing this obsession that this isn't a real love. I have gone to yoga classes 3 times a week. I have started to play tennis after a multi-year hiatus from athletics. I have tried to be more open and generous with strangers. I have tried to trust people more. I have begun to accept the annoyances of people I don't care or like very much. I am trying everything I know in my power to feel that I love my girlfriend. But at the end of every day when I put my head down to sleep, my dreams are filled with emptiness and sorrow, I am miserable in my life and my girlfriend isn't right for me.

But everyday I see my girlfriend, she is full of a daily renewed faith in our love andoften of life itself. Her attitude about life is so refreshing, I see joy in her eyes. So I keep my head on as best I can just to be by her side to take in some of her energy. She says she accepts my horrible mood swings and as long as I continue to find peace in my heart, she will be by my side. This makes me cry, I feel so touched by her words, but I feel an awkward repulsion after the tears dry. I feel like she is wasting her words on me. Because I just don't feel the sweetness that I felt for the first month anymore. Now it feels like a battle in my head everyday. I get a headache sometimes when she kisses me. I feel so empty.

I'll stop there for now. After re-reading my post it seems I am just an overly sensitive prima Donna who wants the perfect love. But I have accepted that love isn't really celestial all the time. I just want to know that I am not wasting her time or mine. I would hate to think that I had the chance after 6 months to end things without too much more heartache than to look back after 5 years and say, "wow, what a waste of time."

Is it possible to know the truth of this pain in my heart? Or is it too acute? Too specific to my own life?

October 20, 2004

I just joined this forum to seek advice about a problem that's eerily similar to yours. Perhaps what I'm about to write will be of no use to you at all, but at least you'll know there's another guy out there on the same wavelength.

Like you, I'm in a relationship that is not personally fulfilling. In my case, it's a relationship with a woman I was reunited with after 30 years apart (her brother and I served together in the U.S. Air Force). I was coming off a divorce that ended a 26-year marriage; she was still suffering from the death of her husband a year previous, while at the same time recovering from a heroin addiction. A chance phone call brought us together again. In the past 22 months I've helped her get back on her feet, given her a place to live, and shared her joy in finding a job she absolutely loves. She's created her own circle of friends. In general, she's rebuilt her life from the ground up. Her family thinks I'm a saint. My friends adore her. My kids have accepted her without reservations. She loves me with every fiber of her being.

Yet, I'm not happy.

Oh, sure, when we first became a couple the sex was exquisite. I'd been denied the joy of lovemaking in the last few years of my marriage, so to experience that again with a willing partner was fantastic. Yet, something deep inside was bothering me. Something just wasn't right. Here was this woman who had rescued me from lonliness, who was giving me a chance to make up for the shortcomings in my marriage, and yet I couldn't, and still can't, shake my doubts. A chance encounter in a grocery store two months ago with a recently divorced woman I'm acquainted with didn't help. I find myself wondering, "What if?" I've had no contact with that woman since...my sense of obligation to the woman I'm living with will not allow me to go any further. And so I live every day conflicted and confused.

Like you, I suffer from depression, although not the manic variety. Coupled with my age (early 50's), my mild depression may be playing a role in what I'm experiencing. I've somewhat convinced myself that the anti-depressants I'm taking are to blame for my non-existent sex drive, although my doctor thinks otherwise; he points to the relationship as the culprit, not the medicine. I've finally taken his advice and taken steps to get counseling, which begins in a few days. In the meantime, I've left my girlfriend feeling hurt and confused, but as determined as ever to stay by my side and remain my best friend (yes, we've talked at length about my feelings; our lines of communication are open, thank God). That, of course, only deepens my feelings of guilt.

But if there's one thing I believe from reading your account and thinking of my own, it's this: You and I may be blessed with two of the most wonderful women on God's earth, and it's only our reluctance to deal with our own problems that is putting our relationships in jeopardy. Our girls are doing just fine, thank you; it's you and I that need to tackle the issues within our own hearts and minds, and brother, that's going to be tough. Maybe you and I are at different levels of emptiness and depression, but if we want any quality of life at all we're going to have to make the effort to get the help we need. And you know who will be right beside us all the way? Our women. They WANT to be there. They WANT us to turn it around. And when we do, we'll both realize how blessed we are, and how much we would have lost had we taken another path.

Peace.

October 20, 2004

Thanks for your reply. It made me feel better for a while. I actually spoke with my girlfriend and she asked me if i was lying all the times I said I loved her. I said no, I just didn't "feel" that I loved her most of the time. But for every other reason than feeling in my heart, I do. I respect her, I am attracted to her, I like talking to her, I laugh with her, I cry with her. But when she looks in my eyes and says, "I love you" I don't feel anything like love. I feel pain and frustration and emptiness. Is this normal for people with mental disorders? Or am I kidding myself that she and I can stay together for longer than the lust?

I just feel terrible guilt that I would waste this angels time. I told her this tonight. I told her I think its better if she found someone who really DID know that they loved her. She is young, 24, she could find someone who can feel that they love her when she says it to their face.

Still completely torn up inside.

Mezarashii

PS You are quite strong to help your girlfriend back on her feet. If love is about action and not the warm sweet feeling inside our hearts you SURELY love her and staying together will only bring positive karma into your life.

October 20, 2004

I'm living proof that people suffering from depression are prone to pushing away the people who most want to help. My ex-wife was like that with me; I never knew that she had been raped as a teenager (before we met), and when her repressed memories surfaced nearly a quarter century after our marriage, her anxiety was so great that she attempted suicide. It was only then did I realize the depth of her suffering, but it was far too late for me to do anything about it. Our level of communication had dwindled over the years, so any attempt I made to reach out to her was feeble at best. Even though she finally received the psychotherapy she had long denied herself (and I wasn't smart enough to realize she needed), whatever love she may have felt for me was long gone, and divorce was her only way out. I still feel a great guilt about it; I wasn't there for her emotionally when she needed me the most, and that ignorance remains my greatest regret.

It's for that reason that I can more clearly see what I need to do to rescue this new relationship I'm in. Not that it's easy to face my own demons; sometimes those critters can be soooo comfortable to have around. They build these neat little walls that I can hide behind anytime I feel the need to. They feed my imagination with all sorts of escapes and fantasies, which I use to avoid reality -- until I'm forced, kicking and screaming, back into the real world. That's where the love of my girlfriend comes in, whether I'm willing to acknowledge it or not. As a former junkie, she's seen far more of the harm the world can do to itself than I ever have. What I've been through in my own life pales in comparison to what's she's experienced. Yet, she has this reservoir of compassion that runs deep and clear, and she goes out of her way to share that compassion with me.

Maybe it's because God created women as nurturing souls that they're willing to stick with troubled men like us, as long as they have a reason to believe in us. The trick, of course, is for us men to crawl out of ourselves long enough to realize what our women really do mean to us. Once we do, we see our women not merely as vessels we use to deposit our masculine desires, but as partners in this topsy-turvy thing called life. I think, deep down inside, we both believe in our women and want our relationships to survive. If you didn't, you wouldn't have posted your original message; if I didn't, I wouldn't have responded.

Peace

October 22, 2004

Keeping the demons around IS so comforting. I'm on vacation now and haven't let go of this nasty relationship anxiety, demons are everywhere on my vacation~. My girlfriend just let me rant and rave about how I wanted out of the relationship two days ago and then she patiently waited for me to come to my senses and an apology for being so stupid and scared. She has almost come to expect this from me now. I

I'm embarrassed that i can't control these feelings and she already knows me well enough to not feel so bad when I bring up all the "problems" with the relationship--like the pink elephants she always brings into the bedroom and the chocolate underwear she makes me wear (i mean,the fact is, THERE ARE NO PROBLEMS!)--and she waits for me to calm down.

I spent the day meditating and even went to the sauna. Nothing but for a few moments were NOT filled with relationship anxiety. I keep imagining going back home and feeling trapped by her "possessiveness" which amounts to her holding my hand "too much" and other than that, her possessiveness is virtually non-existent! I mean, there is no possessiveness on her part, only nurturing and patience and honesty. I love her for that. I just don't know how to FEEL that love!

So my point here is that even though I am physically removed from her and under NO obligation to contact her, I still feel an enormous amount of anxiety about the relationship. This can only mean the opposite of everything running around in my head, I care very much about her, I care deeply for her. And sure, the joy is missing, that primal hunger is going unsatisfied, but i'm beginning to truly believe that the joy is still there between us(i've felt it for glimpses over the past few months when I let my mind go and act fully present in my body and spirit), I just have to find a way back to emotional honesty and acceptance about who I am and what love is really about!

I've began to include prayers in my meditations. I imagine the source of all love and I don't ask for it to be sent to me so I can "feel" this love. I send out the prayer so that she can feel even more love. I think trying to give love just might bring it back to me in a magnificent and joyful rush. I've tried the fear and negativity, now I'm gonna try the altruism and see if it can't bring me to satisfaction.

meza

October 22, 2004

Originally posted by mezarashii
I am almost certain I have manic depression. I believe this has happened because of a great deal of death in my family. I have no one to confide in my family. I have never had any long term friends. I usually have deep intense relationships with girls that last only a few weeks and then I rarely speak to these lovers again. But I want to make a change this time around.

Bipolar mood disorder (manic depression as some people call it) is a biochemical brain disorder that is alleviated through the use of mood-stablizing or antipsychotic medications and psychosocial treamtent - NOT just antidepressants like SSRIs or MAOInhibitors and "trying to be more upbeat" - getting over this mental illness involves a long process of counselling and concurrent medication therapy.

Bipolar mood disorder is commonly apparent in multiple family members, which indicates some measure of heritability...but identical twin studies indicate that the cause is a combination of environmental and genetic factors.

If you have the following symptoms I sincerely urge you to seek professional help and medication therapy. My mother suffers from severe bipolar mood disorder and therapy saved her life:

Signs and symptoms of mania (or a manic episode) include:

Increased energy, activity, and restlessness

Excessively "high," overly good, euphoric mood

Extreme irritability

Racing thoughts and talking very fast, jumping from one idea to another

Distractibility, can't concentrate well

Little sleep needed

Unrealistic beliefs in one's abilities and powers

Poor judgment

Spending sprees

A lasting period of behavior that is different from usual

Increased sexual drive

Abuse of drugs, particularly cocaine, alcohol, and sleeping medications

Provocative, intrusive, or aggressive behavior

Denial that anything is wrong

A manic episode is diagnosed if elevated mood occurs with three or more of the other symptoms most of the day, nearly every day, for 1 week or longer. If the mood is irritable, four additional symptoms must be present.

Signs and symptoms of depression (or a depressive episode) include:

Lasting sad, anxious, or empty mood

Feelings of hopelessness or pessimism

Feelings of guilt, worthlessness, or helplessness

Loss of interest or pleasure in activities once enjoyed, including sex

Decreased energy, a feeling of fatigue or of being "slowed down"

Difficulty concentrating, remembering, making decisions

Restlessness or irritability

Sleeping too much, or can't sleep

Change in appetite and/or unintended weight loss or gain

Chronic pain or other persistent bodily symptoms that are not caused by physical illness or injury

Thoughts of death or suicide, or suicide attempts

You repeatedly mention obsessive thoughts and fixation on a particular theme. Are you aware that your obsessive thoughts come from your mind and are not related to real problems you are not addressing? Do you do anything (actions) in particular, repeatedly, to try to control your obsessive thoughts? In all honesty this sounds more like an anxiety-spectrum disorder. Suicidal ideation goes along with MANY mental illnesses besides bipolar mood disorder.

October 22, 2004

to me, a person who suffers from more seasonal depression, but i have it all the time....

it almost sound like you are trying to self sabotage your great , maybe Too- perfect relationships....

like these women are Too good for you guys, you are not worth their love and you wonder why they even like you.

so instead of having them dump you down the line...well you are over analyzing everything to come up with an escape from pending doom....

Basically i will dump her before she can dump me, that way i know why it ended, and maybe i will not hurt as bad cause you initiated the break up.

I could be way off.....but when anything in my life starts to go well....i will find some way, either consciencely or subconsciencely to sabatage the positive things happening.

Like you said, the Demons, thou controlling, thay are quite a comfort and reliable.

October 24, 2004

thanks tattoomytoe. i think you are on to something. i have a terrible habit of self-sabotage. and because i am so analytical about every facet of my life, its most likely the dread I feel about my relationship is only there because of a unconscious desire to rid myself of this thing called love which doesn't feel so lovely nor is it as liberating and familiar as self-pity.

i am going to try and put my faith in something i have lost touch with.

i am hoping this will calm my anxiety. there is no reason to leave love other than to feel more pain and to hurt my girlfriend as well. if i continue to strive for peace of mind I will certainly one day find it.

i am going to put my faith in the wisdom of great books.

because i live in asia i have lost touch with this precious source of a healthy mental life. i am going to buy more english language books, somewhat heavy stuff but liberating for the spirit...this isn't the first time i have been down the road of gloom and depression and i forgot how meaningful words from men like emerson or borges had been to my life in the past.

so now i' m being as positive as i can possibly %&^%^%in be. Bring on the demons, i'm ready for battle!

October 24, 2004

"You repeatedly mention obsessive thoughts and fixation on a particular theme. Are you aware that your obsessive thoughts come from your mind and are not related to real problems you are not addressing? Do you do anything (actions) in particular, repeatedly, to try to control your obsessive thoughts? In all honesty this sounds more like an anxiety-spectrum disorder. Suicidal ideation goes along with MANY mental illnesses besides bipolar mood disorder.'

I completely missed the part of your post you didn't cut and paste from somewhere else. One of the symptoms, lack of concentration prevented me from your thoughtful words.

So i used to attend counseling sessions but I never seemed to make any headway in changing anything. and now counseling is virtually impossible as o live in vietnam and mental health does not exist here for people who don't wear diapers if you know what i mean.

let me try to answer this question to help myself. Real problems NOT in my mind? You mean like having a debt or poor familial relations? Are these REAL problems? Or do you mean physical problems? I just wonder though do my obsessive thoughts prevent me from ever being liberated from my "real" problems? If I achieve liberation from my obsessive thoughts will my real problems dissolve as problems as well?

And also, I think that I have started to create real change in my physical world. I have begun to meditate more than once a day and also I participate in a Hatha yoga class when I am in Vietnam--I am currently on a short vacation. Are these the kind of "physical" activities which will remove obsessive thoughts from the mind? What kind sof "physical" things were you referring to?

You wrote in your post that the symptoms I described indicated that I may suffer from an obsessive thoughts/anxiety disorder, can you suggest any places on the web which would help me understand what my mind is "attacking" me with? I am open to learning all I can to feel better and live a more satisfying life.

Thanks again for your reply!

October 25, 2004

I'm very familiar with the problem of a lack of mental healthcare in southeast asia, and asia in general (although psychology is a burgeoning field there) - my mom is vietnamese and she about flipped her lid when I decided to major in psychology.

This is a good resource for all things anxiety-disorder related ADAA homepage

Let me clarify: do the situations that run through your mind repeatedly stem from real-life situations, or can you differentiate between things you blow out of proportion and things that you have a proportionate reaction to? In other words, as you aware of instances when you realized you were over-reacting but felt powerless to control your responses?

Bipolar mood disorder is a very serious disease that doesn't usually improve without medication therapy, as far as I am aware. So, in your situation you would probably be able to arrange teleconference therapy, where you actually interact with your therapist via telephone rather than face to face.

In a buddhist sense, there is no "I" which is suffering - the person who you perceive as an independent creature who suffers is actually a collection of delusions, and the false sense of an independent self is part of the delusion. A misguided mind is rife with unwanted thoughts. Meditation can bring about the realization that "I" am nothing more than a leaf floating on a stream.

The issue is letting go of the need to control the manifestations of the delusions in your mind.

October 25, 2004

" my mom is vietnamese"

so is my girlfriend and she would have hard time accepting western anti-depressants (she thinks I am strong enough to overcome this through organic means). my accupuncturist gives me some kind of organic concotion called "bo tinh" in vietnamese which translates into virility substance. my vietnamese male friends told me its a kind of semen producer(not really like viagra at all, although it does achieve the results of increased virility). because of my yoga studies, i realize there IS a connection between virility and happiness(i like to think of it as the spirit of creativity, not the lame misnomer happiness), I just don't know how to translate this into overcoming my UNhappiness!

"In other words, as you aware of instances when you realized you were over-reacting but felt powerless to control your responses?"

Yes, considering my girlfriend has NEVER actually said anything intentionally to cause me pain. I can safely assume that I am over-reacting when she says "I love you" and I feel sadness and panic and fear and anger. Saying this made me happy for a few weeks, so happy I thought I had made it to heaven. Then I woke up one night in the midst of a panic-attack and the only words that came from my mouth were, "I don't love her." And that night was the first time my girlfriend had cried over me. I think her words scared me to death. She said, "The only thing in life that makes me sad is when someone I love is going away." I had made her cry by discussing the possibility of moving to another city in Vietnam. It made me feel so heavy and burdened by her emotion. Up to this point, only 6 weeks, i was living the sweetest dream with my wonderful lover, we were in a state of bliss. When I had to choose between my new job and her, I chose to stay. I have suffered with my regret ever since, I thought, wow, i'm living the life of a married man but i'm not even married. I say I regret my decision because I lost that feeling of heaven that I had because of a shattered delusion of a perfect love. But the fact is i have my own life and so does she. I'm not married to her in any way other than we are both enthusiastically choosing to be monogamous...So I would have to say that, yes, my anxiety/ obessiveness MUST be an over reaction. Unless I'm really just angry at myself for NOT going since, it's possible I don't love her but the IDEA of her.

I flip back and forth every few minutes of everyday with the " naaah, i do/don't love her very much!"

"Bipolar mood disorder is a very serious disease that doesn't usually improve without medication therapy, as far as I am aware. "

I guess I have to find out what I have before I decide what medications I need to take.

"Meditation can bring about the realization that "I" am nothing more than a leaf floating on a stream."

Or that I'm a leaf floating down the stream of terror!

"The issue is letting go of the need to control the manifestations of the delusions in your mind. "

Last night my girlfriend said, "No one can know the future." It scared me to death. She was saying she loved me very much and she was sure she loved me. Then she was saying in the same breath, that is in the moment, I could die tomorrow, or lose my mind. I took it to mean, her love WILL change. But in fact nothing in her actions supposes that her love even COULD change as long as we continued to communicate as we do now(she obviously doesn't suffer from anxiety or depression). She says if I overcome my doubts about our relationship, she is ready for the next step, marriage (she doesn't want " marriage" now, but she wants to be with me and because she is vietnamese I can't leave vietnam without her because she is not wealthy enough to support herself on her own passport). But I had to meditate for an hour before going to sleep, I had to LET GO OF THE ANXIETY that she DIDN'T say she would always love me, I had to accept living in the moment as often as I can for the rest of my life. Once I imagined the possibility(rather than actually achieving this feat of mental liberation) I fell into a deep but brief sleep.

I awoke in a panic feeling the most intense, intimate passion for her(I knew the feeling because we experienced it together last week in bed after I awoke from another panic-attack). I needed to feel her, but she is at home and I am on a "meditative" vacation(she says a flight away from myself; surely its the truth in some small way).

It convinced me of our love, if ever so briefly, after all, it was certainly "in the moment..."

God, thanks blind-otter for your words of thought! Sorry if I ramble like a crazed maniac. I really miss therapy from my childhood and now that I have the biggest conflict of my silly little life, I sure wish I was in a more convenient part of the world to get into it again.

October 25, 2004

Well you are in a difficult situation - personally I think this may be more related to a bigger existential dilemma than just yoru relationship. I have an inkling that you may shovel all the panic and emotion onto the relationship to have a "safe" issue to ponder, something that has more defined borders and boundaries than the essential question that insight meditation addresses - the very nature of perceived reality.

The realization that nothing lasts forever was part of the shakyamuni buddha's path to enlightenment. When he was in a procession and witnessed three examples of old age, sickness, and death, he was moved to shuck off his princely life, his wife and child, and his wealth, for the life of an ascetic. Every moment of each day we die and are reborn - your suffering stems in a big part from your clinging. You are attached to the impossible delusion of permanence.

This is what your girlfriend was probably saying - it is a cultural concept deeply ingrained in many asian societies, Vietnam most especially because it has been war-torn for much of its history, from its inception via China to the French occupation and enslavement of the vietnamese people, to the civil war which destroyed the economy and much of the land. Nothing is permanent. The key to happiness is learning to accept this and to live the moment to the fullest.

My mom always says, you could die tomorrow, so why wait to give a gift until christmas or a birthday. I never see this as a bad thing. It is an impetus to take full advantage of the moment you are blessed with right now.

In all honesty - this moment is all we have, and all we exist in. The future and past are simply abstract concepts that exist in the mind.

You're welcome

October 29, 2004

What a great thread.

Everyone made very valid points and I think I have the same thing.

I have a fear of commitment, although I don't want anyone else. I nitpick and run all details of what was said through my head and then the doubts creep in. I've never been diagnosed as a manic depressive but I do show a lot of the symptoms.

I've never gone to the doctor about it because, well, I know where it comes from and I know where I got it, each and every element associated with the signs of depression. I think they also have cognitive roots, as well.

I've recognized my patterns of self-sabotage and, instead of focussing on the specifics of who-said-what in my relationship now, I try to think about the role I played in it and why I felt the need to do it. As I'm going through it right now, I'm going through periods of nightmares every time I sleep. I see terrible things in them but I think my body is trying to tell me what's wrong.

Everytime my bf speaks the words "long term", my muscles become very tense and my voice quivers. My breathing airways feel constricted. He's been speaking the words "long-term" a lot lately and my nightmares are getting more intense, where even when I wake up and go back to sleep, the nightmare will continue all night.

I don't want to take anti-depressants because I want my brain to work this out. I love him, I really do. I know he's what I've wanted my whole life. I don't want to be "conditioned" by a drug to be in a certain mood.

But doesn't every girl want to get married? Why am I afraid of it? From the time when I was a teenager and had my first boyfriend, I told every one of them I never wanted to get married. Even with my ex-bf, who I lived with for 3 years ... it was always just understood that I would not marry them. We incorporate behaviors into our personalities through our experiences.

I lived in a very dysfunctional household as a child. I came out of a very intense relationship where it really hurt over a year ago -- could be I haven't learned to trust after having learned a lesson on a level of betrayal that makes someone cheating on you look like a walk in the park. He took away everything I had spent 5 years working for...in the blink of an eye, he took everything away. I begin thinking, "What if I have children with this man and he takes them away???" and my heart is broken at the very thought of it. Yes, I feel lethargic. Yes, I'm restless sometimes. I have intense nightmares and wake up a lot every night. I still see and feel the intensity of the negativity of the ex in my nightmares. But, maybe I'm meant to go through this -- I don't know.

Could be a lot of things all combined. Maybe try isolating every behavior and spend some time (on a walk or on the bus) to think about every moment you have the thoughts that result in the behavior and try going back to each time you had that thought until you can go back to the first time. For me, it's been insightful, if nothing else.

I haven't been able to get rid of the panic or the (utterly) empty feeling yet, though.

October 30, 2004

the answer's paxil,paxil and paxil(all the bloody presidential candidates are on them if they

aren't they better be)

Try to post another ten-thousand-words thread and your pain would still be there. i say

either suck it up or get into motion and do something about it,when i say do something about

it i do not mean write another too-long-for-both-poster-and-reader post. We all need

closure,so go find yours. When you find it, tell youself you are going to let it go...

November 1, 2004

Originally posted by pinenuts
the answer's paxil,paxil and paxil(all the bloody presidential candidates are on them if they

aren't they better be)

This is pretty dim advice, I must say.

I was put on lexapro, an antidepressant, and mysteriously developed epilepsy. That was 18 months ago. Because of a psychiatrist cavalierly prescribing antidepressants, I will suffer from a seizure disorder for the rest of my life and I have permanent brain damage.

November 3, 2004

sorry to hear that b-otter. Call me dim if you must. The point being was, one: has spending hours posting those lengthy threads helped anyone?

two, those who are in serious mental condition could use antidepressant if the mind it self can't keep the fundamental senses in check,by fundamental sense i mean emotion and conscience.

From what i read so far,we have two types here:one who go against what one rationally believed to be right; the other was to act against one's conscience.

And b-otter,are you an one-out-of-a-million case? Hope you get better treatments. And point taken antidepressant like lexapro is not for everyone.

P.S the presidential part was for laughters in case you havn't noticed.

November 4, 2004

I've actually dealt with being prescribed medications that were later discovred to have lethal side effects twice in my life. The first time the medicaiton, propulsid, was pulled off the market for causing liver failure. Lexapro and certain SSRIs have been found to cause severe side effects in certain individuals for no apparent reason. I am not one in a million, sadly, although the severity of my reaction is rare, negative complications associated with antidepressant drug therapy are not rare.

In the psychology field (I am in grad school), the number one emphasis is on a combination of talk therapy and, for those who suffer from disorders with a higher degree of severity, medication therapy in conjucntion with the talk therapy.

One should never dismiss the importance of group or talk therapy. For many people, their personal philosophy dictates that medications are not the route they want to take. Unless their disorder/disease impedes on their ability to function in everyday life - that is, in terms of their ability to work, eat, sleep, and go about the necessities of daily life, I would as a clinician be much less inclined to go directly to medication therapy.

Sometimes, in fact, most of the time, individuals need, more than anything else, to talk to other people. That's really it. And as long as they are still capable of and desire to reach out to others in any way, that should be taken advantage of. "Stuffing" emotions, not sharing, not communicating, and relying on a drug is a fast track to failure.

November 6, 2004

Now i can see why you are here.

By all means,do tell...if you must.

On another note thanks for keeping your threads short and to-the-point.

November 6, 2004

But everyday I see my girlfriend, she is full of a daily renewed faith in our love andoften of life itself. Her attitude about life is so refreshing, I see joy in her eyes. So I keep my head on as best I can just to be by her side to take in some of her energy. She says she accepts my horrible mood swings and as long as I continue to find peace in my heart, she will be by my side. This makes me cry, I feel so touched by her words, but I feel an awkward repulsion after the tears dry. I feel like she is wasting her words on me. Because I just don't feel the sweetness that I felt for the first month anymore. Now it feels like a battle in my head everyday. I get a headache sometimes when she kisses me. I feel so empty.

That sounds like depression to me. (Didn't see as much about mania in your posts.) Depressed people often see things as worthless and hopeless when they objectively are not. I am sure your gf has seen many good things in you - probably a lot more than you are able to see yourself right now - and that is why she loves you. I don't think that you can deal with your relationship issues constructively until you first get your head straightened out. I strongly urge seeing a psychiatrist for cognitive therapy and possible medications. Keep working aggressively until you find a doctor and a treatment that ahe helping you feel real improvements.

I recommend keeping your gf with you during this, and just letting her know what you're facing. Sounds like she can be a real support and help to you while you are getting well. If she is willing to be there, I don't see the sense in pushing her away.

Good luck, please keep posting.

November 6, 2004

Originally posted by mezarashii
...In the last few months I have tried my best to alleviate the pain on my own. I have gone to accupuncture, with relative scuccess at easing this obsession that this isn't a real love. I have gone to yoga classes 3 times a week. I have started to play tennis after a multi-year hiatus from athletics. I have tried to be more open and generous with strangers. I have tried to trust people more. I have begun to accept the annoyances of people I don't care or like very much. I am trying everything I know in my power to feel that I love my girlfriend. But at the end of every day when I put my head down to sleep, my dreams are filled with emptiness and sorrow, I am miserable in my life and my girlfriend isn't right for me.

Have you tried therapy?

A LOT said. You have taken a very good step in being aware of your internal conflicts with your girlfriend.

December 23, 2004

When I originally posted this journal, I was in a much better state of mind than I am now. I was in despair, but I was at least seeking advice from the outside.

Since then, I have gone from seeking to burying my entire conscious being inside my computer. I have spent more and more 12 hour sessions on the internet, playing games, scanning pornography, reading the news, trying to predict ways to "beat" the stock market. All of this in vain. All I hav tro show for my efforts is an nagging buzz in my brain, reduced vision and a complete numbness to any tender emotion in my life.

I've tried countless times to break up with my girlfriend. she just waits a few days, sometimes hours and then, out of sheer coincidence, i run in to her, or i actually have to contact her about some real world matter(sublimating my true desire to be with her i suppose....) and we are reuintied and i realize the sheer desperation of my intial attempts.

but the point is I NEVER FEEL BETTER ABOUT THE RELATIONSHIP!!!!

I hate that. When this relationship began I was blind to the pain of my own life, and then I awoke six weeks later and thought to myself, "wow, she sure is a nice girl but I just don't love her..."

Well, I realize now, I do love her. I love her as much as I can possibly lover her. But my social interactions with her are becoming tepid and insincere.

We used to kiss so much, the taste of her lips was intoxicating. She sent my neurons to places I had only experienced with drugs,...and then I came down from this high. and I just wanted to get back up into the heavens....

I miss those stars! We still have sex and we still kiss deeply. But that passion which was so amazing has vanished into thin air.

and i know I'm under a rock and I know I have to come out. but I just don't see anything to crawl out for!

she's still there. she seems a bit dissapointed that my attempts to sabotage things have become more and more extreme and I have acted out and started to say very brutal things in my attempts. but if I gave it some time, she will be the same sweet angelic love she has always been. i have faith in this much for sure....

I really know I need some help. But I just feel too tired to seek it out.

Woe is me, woe is %^&% me!

Don't feel any better at posting this. But maybe if I say i wrote this so someone else can know I feel the same way they do, THAT might be justification to press the send button....

A few months ago Blind-Otter wrote some really salient words about the vietnamese sense of impermanence and the liberation one can achieve from letting go of the fetishes of indulgence. I completely understood this and absorbed it as deep as I could.

But as time speeds on, I rejected it for insular depression once again. I want my girlfriend to go away. I want to be alone. i want to be miserable. i want to feel the pain of my miserable life. "just let me die..."I told her a few weeks ago. she said, ok, you can die, go ahead. and then of course, i did nothing and she shared a little more of her heart with me and i cracked a deep smile and then we kissed.

BUT IT'S NOT WHAT ROMANTIC LOVE IS ABOUT!

sigh.

December 23, 2004

Thich Nhat Hanh

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