Is this awful sex?

[jdthomas]

First timer, hi all.

 

I know there are always other factors and context that can be influencing things, but for right now, I really just would like people to look at this in a vacuum and give me a yea or nay on whether you would consider the following to be lame sex, and disrespectful or uncaring to your spouse/partner. Could be from male or female.

 

So my wife likes foot massages, and I'll do them for her whenever she asks or I'll just volunteer to give her one. We're in bed the other night, and she's playing Tetris or whatever on her cellphone, and we're head to toe to each other, so she puts her legs over to me, so I take the hint and give her a foot/leg massage. Now I'd like some reciprocation, but not a foot massage - I'd prefer a hand or blow job or sex, and we've kind of got an understanding there, so after a while, she turns around and also puts her head on her pillow, and kind of jokingly says good night without doing anything for me. I know she's joking, so I don't really say anything and after a few seconds she starts massaging me with her hand, but after about a minute, massaging stops because she's falling asleep. I kind of nudge her and say hey, and she laughs and starts again, but then after another minute is falling asleep.

 

I nudge her again and I'm a little annoyed now, she's got me going, and it really doesn't take that much effort after all...I ask, can't you just take a few minutes her to give me some physical attention? Now she starts getting annoyed, and says she is taking a few minutes to do that. Huh? You're falling asleep!, I think. So she starts again (now I'm not even really feeling anything, because I know she's annoyed and at this point just doing it to get it over with...), but after a minute her hand falls still again. Now, I'm more annoyed, and I say, hey, can't you do this for me? Don't you think it's kind of rude to just be looking the other way, and not even interested enough to finish this? You didn't have a problem staying awake playing your video game and enjoying my foot massage.

 

So now she gets an angry look on her face, sits up and starts pulling off my boxers, and she's going to give me a pissed off rough blow job, but I just say no thanks, I don't want it if it's gonna be like this. And I sit up and mumble, worst sex in the world, and take my pillow to go lie on the couch.

 

I don't see why she can't just pay attention for the 5 or 10 minutes it would take to focus on what she's doing and satisfy her husband. Would you feel kind of rejected or disappointed if you received this treatment from your spouse/partner?

 

Thanks alot.

[Turtles]

I see where you are coming from but you can't always expect a payment for every action or you are in for a lifetime of disappointment. You make the gift of the leg massage... it is not a business transaction. It will even out in the long run but try not to keep score (by the way, sadly you have now turned a positive - giving her a massage - into a negative - getting into an argument - so better hope she is not keeping score either)

 

Also, this is a typical male mindset... I can go from dead sleep to super horny in 15 seconds if she wakes me up and is hot, but females don't seem to have the same priority for sex as we do!

[xxoo]

Is a foot massage sexual for her?

 

Why does foot massage mean sexy time in your perspective? It would mean sleepy time for me!

 

If you want sex, maybe start with the foot massage, and the segue into some more sexual foreplay and turn her on.

[dichotomy]

Awful sex ? Worst sex in the world? How long you been married ? Not even close! I could tell you more than a few.

 

Ya - you should be pissed (a little not a lot), but if this was a one off, or even happens every now and then - forget about it. Long time married, both of us have fallen asleep before getting to the good stuff - and both of us have been upset at the other a little bit for this. It is a bit selfish...

 

You still getting oral - good oral - from time to time in your marriage? If so - then you got it ok.

Edited June 30, 2013 by dichotomy

[HeavenOrHell]

Oh for goodness sake, don't you read the posts from women in this forum?

 

 

but females don't seem to have the same priority for sex as we do!

[AlexDP]

I'd be pissed that my partner always expects tit for tat and I wouldn't bother letting him touch me at all if it always meant I had to do something back.

 

I always tickle and massage my bf's back..I do it because he likes it and never with the intention of getting my own back from him. Especially if my treatment nicely relaxed him and put him to sleep.

 

 

Yeah yeah yeah. Except when it comes down to it, I notice that most women who say "you can't always expect tit for tat" are just women receiving and not giving.

 

Expect tit for tat. It's absolutely necessary in a relationship.

[AlexDP]

And you've dated all these women who use these tit for tat standards?

 

I give a whole lot more than I receive. I don't sit here with a tally and expect immediate recuperation of my deeds. Besides, who wants to preform oral after a foot rub has put you to sleep. If I massage my man every night( like I do most nights) and he is very relaxed and falling alseep, should I then expect him to get right up..and go down on me? Come on, if you believe that your more selfish than you are pretending.

 

I'm not pretending that I'm not selfish. You are.

 

Look, there are many, many egocentric women out there and honestly, if as a guy you don't expect tit for tat, you're just going to get run over.

[Lani]

You overreacted. Mega.

You couldn't go without a blow job one time? Do one good deed for her that she got to enjoy by falling asleep?

If it becomes a habit then you can say something, but right now you're being a spoilt brat.

[AlexDP]

Ok well then you end op have fun running your relationships and never doing anything for your partner simply for the fact that you love that person.

 

You can assume whatever nonsense you want about myself and other women who give genuinely in their relationship without expecting back and pretend its not the norm, but we all know its not because you are the tit for tat type who would never do for a loved one simply because...always for your own self gain.

 

Far from. I regularly do things for a loved one. Only I expect that they regularly do things for me too. See, I have no doubt in my mind that the women who say that you should do things without expecting something in return are in fact the women who are not willing to give anything in return.

[Els]

Honestly, my opinion is that if you can't volunteer something without being disappointed by lack of immediate reciprocation... don't do it. Overall give-take dynamics is important, but it doesn't seem like what you're complaining about here, given your emphasis on that one occasion and your mention that 'there seems to be an understanding about bjs/hjs most of the time'.

 

Also, your reaction to it was completely over the top and immature. Just let her sleep, sheesh. If she NEVER does anything for you sexually, that might call for a conversation and some serious decisions, but your need for immediate reciprocation is just incredibly childish.

[MissBee]

I would be slightly annoyed if my guy was falling asleep while attempting to "please me"; however, I would not keep waking him up to be like "can you just take 10 minutes to get me off??" WTF? That is very lame on your part and it seems like you're demanding it as some chore she needs to do versus something you both want to do. It's childish and you just seemed like a brat. Not an aphrodisiac.

 

If someone is tired, they're tired. It happens. There is always tomorrow. I have had times where I am all up for a romp and my guy is up for it but is actually tired so the poor thing falls asleep before we can do anything as well as where it's been me who was up for it and he stepped away for a second and I'm the one who is fast asleep. I would not appreciate if I'm falling asleep my guy is demanding I wake up and take 15 minutes to give him a proper bj.... Likewise, if he was sleepy I would not be waking him up to ask him to do stuff to me. It is INCONSIDERATE! If she wasn't falling asleep and say massaged you and then went back to playing on her phone, fine, she would be a tease and would be the inconsiderate one, but the woman was sleepy...come on.

 

Also, the whole vibe that because you gave her a foot massage means you automatically get a bj is bizarre to me. The whole thing was lame but IMO, from you started demanding she wake up and give you a bj, and while she continues falling asleep you continue waking her up then start throwing a tantrum makes most of the lameness on you. Once a man starts demanding sexual favors and is waking me up to do it I am gonna get annoyed and turned off and I most certainly WON'T want to do it. That attitude is what makes it lame. Don't try to have sex or foreplay with a sleepy, tired person. You gave her a foot massage, it wasn't like you were making out, which is more of a natural lead up to sex. Any sex which is based on tantrums and demands and obligations versus you both are AWAKE and into it, will be lame.

Edited June 30, 2013 by MissBee

[jdthomas]

OK, thanks for all the replies. I see many are calling me childish, lame, selfish, etc. This is why I specifically did not put the thing into context. So now I'll supply the background context, and I'd like to know if I'm still all of those things.

 

She basically never initiates any kind of physical touching, the only time anything happens is when I specifically ask for it. I've tried to talk numerous times, bringing up the subject very gently, firmly, humorously, any way you can think of, and basically she argues and doesn't see why she has to start anything, and I should just ask. I tell her, well, then that kind of feels like I'm begging, or getting it from a prostitute, so the mood or any enjoyment of it is reduced 50% right from the start. She will initiate something when there hasn't been any action for a couple weeks, and she senses frustration from me, so she'll just do something for me because she thinks she has to, and that resets the clock for another couple weeks of no action unless I ask. And when I do ask, there is usually rolling of eyes, or sighing, or protests of now?, it's too early, it's too late, I'm tired, I haven't taken a shower, I need to get up and do this, etc...myriad reasons, but never just happily given.

 

I never stated that I "always" demand reciprocation. But I did state that she likes massages, but if there is reciprocation, I would prefer something sexual in lieu of a massage (seeing as how it's such a hard thing to come by for me...), and that we kind of have an understanding about this reciprocation thing, so please go back and find that part in my original post.

 

Anyway, she asks for massages way more than I ask for sex, and I always happily provide. I don't always then ask for sex in return. Often, yeah, but not always. Many times, I will give her a massage without her asking, and again, will not always expect something back. When I do ask for sex or bj or whatever first, when finished, she will nearly always immediately flip around and put her feet/legs up for massage and laugh like, OK your turn! If you want to call something lame, that is lame.

 

And this same scenario of her lying in bed for an hour or more while playing a video game, or texting on her phone, or watching a video, and then I come to bed, and she puts up her feet for a massage, and I give it, and then her getting me going (but again without really any interest), but not caring enough to stay awake for 10 more minutes or whatever, but nodding off, has occurred more than several times. She apparently thinks that's an OK way to treat your spouse.

 

I'm fine as a husband too (not perfect of course, nobody's perfect), so it's not because I'm some loser who just sits around and doesn't do anything. I help a ton with all chores, and shopping, taking kid to school, ballet, etc., mowing lawn, car care, cooking, managing finances, whatever. And not ugly or out of shape - we are both mid 40's and decently attractive. For the record, I think my wife is smoking hot still, and let her know that all the time.

 

I'm not asking to be provided for sexually every single day like a king with a harem or something. I would just like my wife to offer some sex to me on her own like half the time, and when I ask, to not make me feel guilty for asking.

 

So now, does it still sound like I'm a selfish, demanding jerk?

[xxoo]

Do you know how to arouse her?

 

Get her turned on, and then back off. Tease and play. She'll beg!

[Lani]

OK, thanks for all the replies. I see many are calling me childish, lame, selfish, etc. This is why I specifically did not put the thing into context. So now I'll supply the background context, and I'd like to know if I'm still all of those things.

 

She basically never initiates any kind of physical touching, the only time anything happens is when I specifically ask for it. I've tried to talk numerous times, bringing up the subject very gently, firmly, humorously, any way you can think of, and basically she argues and doesn't see why she has to start anything, and I should just ask. I tell her, well, then that kind of feels like I'm begging, or getting it from a prostitute, so the mood or any enjoyment of it is reduced 50% right from the start. She will initiate something when there hasn't been any action for a couple weeks, and she senses frustration from me, so she'll just do something for me because she thinks she has to, and that resets the clock for another couple weeks of no action unless I ask. And when I do ask, there is usually rolling of eyes, or sighing, or protests of now?, it's too early, it's too late, I'm tired, I haven't taken a shower, I need to get up and do this, etc...myriad reasons, but never just happily given.

 

I never stated that I "always" demand reciprocation. But I did state that she likes massages, but if there is reciprocation, I would prefer something sexual in lieu of a massage (seeing as how it's such a hard thing to come by for me...), and that we kind of have an understanding about this reciprocation thing, so please go back and find that part in my original post.

 

Anyway, she asks for massages way more than I ask for sex, and I always happily provide. I don't always then ask for sex in return. Often, yeah, but not always. Many times, I will give her a massage without her asking, and again, will not always expect something back. When I do ask for sex or bj or whatever first, when finished, she will nearly always immediately flip around and put her feet/legs up for massage and laugh like, OK your turn! If you want to call something lame, that is lame.

 

And this same scenario of her lying in bed for an hour or more while playing a video game, or texting on her phone, or watching a video, and then I come to bed, and she puts up her feet for a massage, and I give it, and then her getting me going (but again without really any interest), but not caring enough to stay awake for 10 more minutes or whatever, but nodding off, has occurred more than several times. She apparently thinks that's an OK way to treat your spouse.

 

I'm fine as a husband too (not perfect of course, nobody's perfect), so it's not because I'm some loser who just sits around and doesn't do anything. I help a ton with all chores, and shopping, taking kid to school, ballet, etc., mowing lawn, car care, cooking, managing finances, whatever. And not ugly or out of shape - we are both mid 40's and decently attractive. For the record, I think my wife is smoking hot still, and let her know that all the time.

 

I'm not asking to be provided for sexually every single day like a king with a harem or something. I would just like my wife to offer some sex to me on her own like half the time, and when I ask, to not make me feel guilty for asking.

 

So now, does it still sound like I'm a selfish, demanding jerk?

 

Perhaps you aren't being as selfish as we originally pegged you as, but I wonder why you left all of this out of the original post?

It's like you were setting us all up to be wrong, which makes me think this may just be in your nature and could be reflecting in your relationship.

 

This sort of vindictive behavior won't get you the results you want.

[Els]

Wow.

 

So instead of giving us the real crux of the issue, you purposefully chose to show us the most obscure and irrelevant bit, and now only provide us the 'real'(?) details so as to 'prove us wrong'?

 

Were you expecting something from this?

 

Given that you somehow thought it was a great idea to provide one occasion of your spouse falling asleep after a massage in your OP, and only chose to talk about complete lack of physical contact initiation after that in a 'ha, you were wrong!' way, I'll be sitting out on this. IMO, if people genuinely desire to be helped, they do not go about it in this manner. I'm calling the under-bridge patrol on this.

Edited July 1, 2013 by Elswyth

[MissBee]

Perhaps you aren't being as selfish as we originally pegged you as, but I wonder why you left all of this out of the original post?

It's like you were setting us all up to be wrong, which makes me think this may just be in your nature and could be reflecting in your relationship.

 

This sort of vindictive behavior won't get you the results you want.

 

Ditto....

 

So weird

[sweetkiwi]

For real? She's so tired she's falling asleep and you get pissed......? Husband of the year folks.

[JustAReformedGirl]

First of all, you should have provided us with the more detailed post. You want honest feedback? You need to give us honesty beforehand. Otherwise, you set yourself up as the bad guy, then switch to "martyr mode". This involved you wasting some of the posters' precious time, and your own.

 

Secondly; she may enjoy foot massages, but this is clearly not getting her riled up sexually. So when she wants a foot massage, and after going through this multiple times now, you should know it's not going to end in you getting off.

 

Best bet? Do what someone else said; get her really going with some serious foreplay. No, I'm serious; if you get her incredibly aroused, and pull away slightly (or tease other areas of her body, except for the one place she craves your touch the most) she'll be going over the moon, and back.

 

If she has a healthy libido, that is. I know that kind of thing gets me begging, if done just the right way.

 

Okay, so we get your frustration with it being a recurring issue. Talk it over with her. You don't need to expect sexual satisfaction every time you do something nice for her, but when it comes down to actual sexual favours, there is a certain level of give and take. It would be unfair if one person was always doing, and never receiving. But as others said, don't expect there to be an even tally; if you try to think of it that way, she's going to bring up things in which she does more of, while you take it for granted. So, don't expect tit for tat every time.

 

More over, just because she props her foot in your lap or whatever, does not mean you have to give her a massage.

 

If talking to her about this issue has gone nowhere, give her a slight taste of her own medicine; either stop giving her the foot rubs she appears to expect from you, every time she places her feet before you, or give her a half-assed one, and see if she catches on.

 

As for the hand job and blowjob issue? You guys were laying in bed, and she was clearly exhausted. If she kept falling asleep, rather than waking her up and pissing yourself off, along with her, you could have just finished yourself off. Hey, most of us prefer sex to masturbation, and if it's not actual sex, a lot of us prefer someone else doing it for us; but it's not always an option.

 

So, you can either have open, honest communication with your wife, in which you can work on these issues, or you can continue down the path your on, filled with bitter disappointment. Your call.

[TiredFamilyGuy]

I won't join the lynch mob, OP. Go for tit for tat - but over time. If she's not doing that make her uncomfortable to get her attention if you must. To me and many others the whole point of a massage is to relax enough to drift off, your initial post seemed not to understand that.

[jdthomas]

Wow, tough crowd. I didn't set this up as some sort of "trick" to fool people and then say "ha!" or anything like that. I just wanted to see if people would feel the same way I felt after such an experience. [by the way, my original reaction at the time wasn't a "tantrum" as some have termed it - everything I said to my wife was in a calm voice.] Again, if you'll notice, I specifically stated that I know there is context to everything, but I was asking people to just take this one event in a vacuum and give me your opinions, if you wanted to. I didn't force anyone to post an answer, so I don't know why some of you seem to be angry, and telling me that I "wasted your time". Kinda ridiculous position to take...

 

But anyway, if you can look past that and get back to the actual issue, the foot massage isn't meant to be sexual or foreplay, she just likes them. And she doesn't enjoy foreplay, which is also sad, she just wants to get it over with, if she has to do anything at all. Thanks for the advice, but "really trying to get her worked up" doesn't work. And also, she's not really that tired. I'm not so callous to try to force my hardworking wife, after a particularly grueling day, to have sex. She just doesn't care enough to participate in this part of the marriage. In fact, on this particular day, she hadn't really done anything all day. However, I had cooked and served dinner, done the dishes, got our child ready and into bed, and during the day mowed both front and back lawns, then when she commented about the stray cut grass on the sidewalk, went back out after taking a shower, and sweeped up all the front pavement.

 

So unfortunately, coming to a board for some casual advice wasn't as helpful as I hoped it would be. Seems like most people just immediately started assuming all sorts of things and criticizing, and then when given more information, attacking again for the same or even different reasons.

 

Interesting though that, if screen names can be believed, it seems like all the ones attacking are female, and many of the comments provided back were pretty harsh, even though you had just a small amount of information to go on. I think only one dude, AlexDP, responded and he seemed to sympathize with me. Whoops, now watch, I'll be attacked for coming here and only wanting to hear from people who agree with me. Well no, just wanted to hear some even-minded feedback (not hysterical attacks).

 

So are there any women here who might agree with me even a little bit on this? I will say it sounds nice that some of you say that you voluntarily massage/rub your partners back every night or often. I'd be happy if I got that even once a month...

[JustAReformedGirl]

This is exactly what I meant by playing the martyr. Not that you deliberately did it, but you really could have given us more to go on, OP.

 

With your more recent (and lengthy) post, it is clear that you are doing a lot more of the giving than receiving. In fact, the scales appear to be tipping entirely in her favour.

 

If this is the case, I retract my previous statement. Know this, though; it isn't because we're females that we "attacked". It is because of how you presented your situation. You have my apologies though, for making assumptions.

 

Now with more information, I can say this much; it looks like you're in for a lot of disappointment in your marriage. You doing most of everything-chores, taking care of your child, cooking, etc.-is this a typical day? You said your wife works, too? Even still, she should be taking on some of the household responsibilities as well.

 

So, this is the best advice I can possibly give: talk to your wife about this clear lack of equality in your marriage. Be clear on what, specifically, upsets you the most. Seek MC if necessary, in which I imagine it will be; why? Because you're unhappy in your marriage, and your wife is being incredibly selfish in most aspects of it. So you can either both agree to work on the trouble areas, or....well, I'm sure you know the alternative. Of course, there are many things that sit in between those extremes.

 

In short, though: if you're unhappy, it is up to you to do something about it. If your wife is really as apathetic in your daily life as you say, this is problematic.

[Els]

 

So are there any women here who might agree with me even a little bit on this? I will say it sounds nice that some of you say that you voluntarily massage/rub your partners back every night or often. I'd be happy if I got that even once a month...

 

I do this.

 

I still think you acted childishly in that one particular scenario in the OP regardless of your 'calm' tone of voice , and it wasn't your best idea to leave out the much more pressing issue of constant lack of physical affection by your wife. The lack of physical affection needs addressing, but NOT in the way you handled that foot massage...

[Mumbles]

I started with one opinion and finished with another. By the time I'd finished reading the OP I recognised the sex starved husband - having been one myself for many many years.

 

The OP's later post just confirms this. Wife always doesn't want to have sex in the daytime or early evening because there are things to do, those things get done and then its off to bed, but now too tired, or have to wake up early, or whatever.

 

Tell her to get her shyte together or leave her ... seriously. I could write for pages and pages but it will boil down to the same. In the end I agonised for years and it put both of us through hell before we divorced - I should have just laid it on the line early and things would have either got fixed or remedied by divorce much much earlier.

[todreaminblue]

for starters i think the tetris thing is a distraction......taking phones to bed isnt very romantic......i call it zoning out.......massages arent normally done with tetris, tetris isnt sexy.......neither is a mobile phone......not sexy at all......

 

if you want an environment of intimacy and physical touch...remove all distractions.......and then go for it........long slow sensuous massage followed by oral orgasms for you...alliteration rocks.......ahem...anyway........i understand why you would be upset and frustrated....i have a suggestion...remove the mobile from the equation next time...add soem feathers and a snorkel instead...ok no snorkel.......caramel sauce......and teach her to paint body parts....with oozing

caramel....

 

 

or make a lava penis.........and have her save the forest above and the mountains below from caramel lava......with her tongue......no mobile phones in bed.....put a sign on the bed post a mobile circled with a big red cross and a caption reading......pleasure zone ...not tetris zone......good luck and best wishes......deb

[xxoo]

If your wife is not getting aroused, address that problem. Why not?

 

Dont push for sex that bores her; address the real problem.