BS wants to declare war on AP

June 30, 2013

Does your husband have access to a gun, knife, or anything that could escalate a fight into something deadly?

I think the only way you're going to be able to avoid him violently confronting xOM is to use reverse psychology here. Tell him that you have thought about it and that, if he wants to fight xOM, you support his decision if it will help with his healing and contribute to your reconciliation. Remind your husband about the legal consequences of beating up xOM, and let him know you will bail him out of jail if it comes to that.

Ask him to talk about it with friends and get their opinion on what he should do before doing anything. They will tell him not to fight, and it will sound far more rational coming from them because they have no emotional involvement in the situation.

I think your objections are only fueling his rage. The knowledge that he has your support no matter what he chooses to do is more likely to calm him down and make him think clearly about the situation. Giving him the "green light" will cause him to focus more on the actual consequences than on this blind rage that is pent up inside him. I doubt he will want to fight anymore knowing you support his decision.

Also, do everything you can to get him into therapy. Your husband sounds like a ticking time bomb at this point, and he really needs professional help.

June 30, 2013

AS a BS, over the last few years I have done a lot of reading and study on different things. Sex, relationships, affairs, physical fitness and martial arts/street fighting. Yes - I have had fantasies of beating the crap, or worse on OM.

Let me make a couple of points.

OM is not really to blame - you are. This was the focus of at least one very candid book about cheating written by a serial OM. It is very common for the husband to focus 90% anger, to view their wife's as "innocent naive" little woman who were turned by some bad guy. They can't face or deal with the concept it was all their wife (and possibly themselves) that are to blame for the affair. Sorry to say this but if it was not this guy - another guy would (or lets say under the right circumstances could have) have gotten you. You and your husband need to understand this.

ANY man who would be involved with a married woman AND his best friends wife is not a good person who made a bad choice - he is bad. stop defending him! Also if OM was such a "GOOD MAN" he would have come to his best friend with his hat in his hand, accepting what ever he got. Good men are accountable to those they hurt - especially their friends and loved ones.

Now about the violence. I read the same thing over and over in several books on real fighting (street not ring). You better be prepared and justified for what happens. Attacking someone with out legal defensible (and provable) means WILL likely result in 1) Going to jail or prison 2) being sued and loosing your home, business, assets, retirement. So likely the guy you beat up will heal after a month or so - but your kids and wife will loose you to a prison, and the guy will have your money too. Nice huh? Is this likely outcome of him beating up your lover - worth it. And lets make it worse - your husband loose the fight - and still goes to jail and his best buddy sues him an gets all his money. Now he is sitting in a jail, beaten psychically and legally - lost his wife, kids, and money to OM. Picture it.

I don't know where you live - but some states to have laws that allow you to sue an OM/OW for emotional distress or something of cheating. Consult a lawyer.

If you want to damage him - you could consider whether simply "outing him" to the world (and of course you) - would cause significant social punishment for him - but you as well. Can you handle this?

Edited June 30, 2013 by dichotomy

June 30, 2013

I don't know where you live - but some states to have laws that allow you to sue an OM/OW for emotional distress or something of cheating. Consult a lawyer.

Alienation of Affection. Not sure that still holds in most states; I'd imagine it would vary statewise.

June 30, 2013

I think the following comment that you stated would drive your husband out of his mind. You stated that you were hanging around with the OM and had not even kissed him yet. You state that when your husband finally said NO you had still been hanging around the OM. You then said the following:

"By then I pretty much had decided that since H would already consider it cheating, (hanging around him) I might as well get something out of it." You then proceeded to have sex with the OM behind your husband's back for 2 months. What is wrong with this picture? I simply cannot imagine most husband's not seeing this as a deal-breaker. You thought that by hanging out with the OM your husband would perceive this as a form of cheating and therefore you might as well get something out of this so this gave you the green light to cheat on your husband for 2 months? How is this possible to justify such a thought process?

June 30, 2013

Good solid decision on going NC with your OM and maintaining it. Personally, I think your honesty about your feelings for the OM was a good (not "idiotic" call). Honesty will buy you a lot more over the long-term; hiding your true feelings would have eroded trust. I was also really wise to give him ALL of the truth; so many WW trickle the truth and that will kill a reconciliation.

It's unwise, of course, for your H to confront the OM. That said, he's a grown man and whether you want to protect him or not, I think your priority should be in respecting his ability to make his own decisions. He has been disrespected enough. Frankly, I would drop the subject entirely. If he asks your opinion, tell him you think it's unwise simply because of the harm that could come to your H from it but that you respect that it is his decision and you'll no longer interfere with it.

As for feelings for the OM, your best bet is to reach indifference. He is irrelevant and no longer a party in your marriage. You've gotten some good suggestions about detaching. When you find your mind wandering there, envision a stop sign in your head and force your thoughts to be redirected to your H. Spend the next 5 minutes thinking of what you can do for him today. My personal opinion is that the attention you received from the OM was thrilling (yes, much like an addiction) and now that you're feeling so down and rejected, you're even more vulnerable to wanting that attention again (thus, the recent resurgence of feelings for him). Be smarter than that and don't allow the OM to occupy your headspace; he was a third party in your marriage long enough. Those thoughts are reserved for your H now. Physically maintaining NC is one thing; achieving mental NC is your next goal. As others have mentioned, your OM wasn't a good guy during your affair. He lied to you and helped you betray his best friend. Maybe he'll be a better guy in the future but that's irrelevant to you. Again, indifference is the goal.

Two books for you: How to Help My Spouse Heal from My Affair by Linda McDonald and Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass.

As well, read the thread pinned at the top of this forum, Things That Every WS Needs to Know. Keep reading and posting; further educate yourself about affairs.

Be proactive about transparency. Anticipate and prevent triggers as much as possible. Ensure your H of your commitment to the marriage for the long haul. Sympathize with his emotional rollercoaster and try to focus more on his healing than your own guilt and shame. He needs your strength.

And yes, get into individual counseling. Your choice to have an affair was illogical (it solved nothing), unethical (denied your H of the right to make informed choices about his life), and tremendously damaging. I would also venture to say that you've violated your own standards by doing it. WHY would you do something so illogical, unethical, and damaging that is against your own standards? That answer has nothing to do with your marriage or husband and everything to do with you. Dig deep in individual counseling to determine your personal "why." If you know it, you may be more apt to avoid the use of that coping mechanism in the future and your H may also have more confidence that he won't suffer a repeat performance. Forget marriage counseling for now; too many MCs will see the marriage as the client and take a balanced approach rather than focusing on the affair. Your H will feel responsible for 50% during those discussions and that is NOT healthy for him.

Good luck. You're on the right path to reconciling; it's just a long and narrow one with landmines on both sides so you have to be careful.

June 30, 2013

Let me make a couple of points.

OM is not really to blame - you are.

I strongly disagree with this point. OM was H's best friend since grade school. He attended their wedding. As far as I'm concerned, they are equally to blame.

This was the focus of at least one very candid book about cheating
written by a serial OM. It is very common for the husband to focus 90% anger,
to view their wife's as "innocent naive" little woman who were turned by some
bad guy.

While the OP is hardly an "innocent, naïve victim" in this situation, OM isn't an unwitting participant, either. They both engaged in betraying someone they both knew very well. Again, I disagree with your point of it being more her fault. It is both their fault.

They can't face or deal with the concept it was all their wife (and
possibly themselves) that are to blame for the affair.

The BS is not to blame for the affair at all. Keep in mind, this is coming from a WS. I'm not condoning her affair, but I don't hold her more responsible than OM. I also don't blame BS for what occurred behind his back; yes, they may have had marital issues, and perhaps the affair was a reaction to said issues-but that doesn't make it justified.

Sorry to say this but if it was not this guy - another guy would (or lets
say under the right circumstances could have) have gotten you. You and your
husband need to understand this.

This is a very real possibility. Regardless though, the OM was his childhood friend, and as such, he knowingly participated in the betrayal of a man he's known for a long time. It doesn't matter if she would have wound up with a different OM; she wound up with this one, who knew them both well. Your point is moot.

ANY man who would be involved with a married woman AND his best friends wife is
not a good person who made a bad choice - he is bad. stop defending him! Also if
OM was such a "GOOD MAN" he would have come to his best friend with his hat in
his hand, accepting what ever he got. Good men are accountable to those they
hurt - especially their friends and loved ones.

So one minute you're condemning her, saying she's more accountable...and the next, you contradict your statement. Don't get me wrong, I agree with this point. It just happens to contradict your earlier points.

June 30, 2013

as hard as it may seem, i say you leave him be(husband). the more you go against his wishes concerning the confrontation, the more he thinks you're protecting this man. let it go. let your husband deal with the situation in the way he feels will bring him closure.

your job is to work at getting your husband to trust you; then respect you; and then maybe he can come to love you as he once did. that should be your only concern from now on.

let the chips fall where they may.

Edited June 30, 2013 by Artie Lang

June 30, 2013

OM is not really to blame - you are. This was the focus of at least one very candid book about cheating written by a serial OM. It is very common for the husband to focus 90% anger, to view their wife's as "innocent naive" little woman who were turned by some bad guy. They can't face or deal with the concept it was all their wife (and possibly themselves) that are to blame for the affair. Sorry to say this but if it was not this guy - another guy would (or lets say under the right circumstances could have) have gotten you. You and your husband need to understand this.

I totally have to disagree with you on that. That OM is her husband's best friend. He is to blame as well, because of the friendship. No way should xOM be off the hook on this. NO way. This is double betrayal that happened, not 'some' other guy who was single and had an A with her. The best friend is accountable for his actions and choices.

June 30, 2013

Her H---mentioned "open" mge, and she ran with it as fast as she could------WHY-did she not fight for/protect her mge

There were, from what I read, no problems talked of, at the time, he wanted to explore kinky---why was that----at this point of time, she was not looking to get into an A----so again---someone kindly answer me---including the OP----why did she not fight for the mge---and say NO WAY---to exploring an "open" mge.

June 30, 2013

Since you intend to work on your M - it is completely up to you to change yourself - your decision making skills - your boundaries.

But more than that you need to really work on the reasons you don't respect your husband.

What are YOU doing to change that about yourself?

June 30, 2013

I understand you point is argue how much this scum bag "best friend" was to be accountable however, let me counter some of your points.

I strongly disagree with this point. OM was H's best friend since grade school. He attended their wedding. As far as I'm concerned, they are equally to blame.

I disagree - a friend is not the same as the vow of a wife. Not equal blame. Yes best friend is to blame - but not even on the same level as a the wife.

While the OP is hardly an "innocent, naïve victim" in this situation, OM isn't an unwitting participant, either. They both engaged in betraying someone they both knew very well. Again, I disagree with your point of it being more her fault. It is both their fault.

Same point I made above - a friend betrayal does not equal a spouse betrayal.

The BS is not to blame for the affair at all. Keep in mind, this is coming from a WS. I'm not condoning her affair, but I don't hold her more responsible than OM. I also don't blame BS for what occurred behind his back; yes, they may have had marital issues, and perhaps the affair was a reaction to said issues-but that doesn't make it justified.

No BS can be responsible for a betrayal and no other person can either - its all on WS. I am just making a point that his anger is trying to find a channel and it appears to be going all towards OM/BF.

This is a very real possibility. Regardless though, the OM was his childhood friend, and as such, he knowingly participated in the betrayal of a man he's known for a long time. It doesn't matter if she would have wound up with a different OM; she wound up with this one, who knew them both well. Your point is moot.

No its not moot - she has a weakness or had it - OM whether best friend or some other dude - just exposed it. She committed the betrayal of her vows, and unless she works on it - she could do it again.

So one minute you're condemning her, saying she's more accountable...and the next, you contradict your statement. Don't get me wrong, I agree with this point. It just happens to contradict your earlier points.

I believe OP said something along the lines of OM was a good man who made a bad choice or something (I will re-read her post)she appeared to have some remaining feelings of affection or positive view of him - I was simply pointing out that she was sleeping with a man who would not only violate another marriage - but his best friends as well. My point here is not to blame him exactly (he does deserve a heck of alot) - but to have her stop having any views that OM was a good guy so she can move on.

June 30, 2013

I totally have to disagree with you on that. That OM is her husband's best friend. He is to blame as well, because of the friendship. No way should xOM be off the hook on this. NO way. This is double betrayal that happened, not 'some' other guy who was single and had an A with her. The best friend is accountable for his actions and choices.

I agree that best friend deserves blame - alot. My point was this - a friend takes no vows, no pledge, no formal legal or spiritual commitments. No one can make a WS cheat. I believe (but have no proof ) that while he has a right for anger at friend, I believe he is putting too much of it on him, and not enough on wife. It is common in these situations for a man to focus the majority of the anger on OM and not wife. Perhaps I over stated this point in my my first response, but wife is the one with the vow.

June 30, 2013

I understand you point is argue how much this scum bag "best friend" was to be accountable however, let me counter some of your points.

Fair enough.

I disagree - a friend is not the same as the vow of a wife. Not equal
blame. Yes best friend is to blame - but not even on the same level as a
the wife.

The betrayal of a friend may not be the same as that of a wife, but in the event of said friend having an affair with the wife, I do hold them in equal standing. I'm sorry, but I can't budge on this point. I don't think one should be raked over the coals more than the other. If it had been an OM who didn't know her husband personally, then I might feel differently.

No BS can be responsible for a betrayal and no other person can either - its
all on WS. I am just making a point that his anger is trying to find a channel
and it appears to be going all towards OM/BF.

I thought perhaps you were stating that BS might try to rationalize and blame themselves for the occurrence of said affair. Sometimes they do it, but I just felt it necessary to point out it's not their fault.

No its not moot - she has a weakness or had it - OM whether best friend or
some other dude - just exposed it. She committed the betrayal of her vows, and
unless she works on it - she could do it again.

I concede this point, but I believe OP has shown remorse; yes, it could have been any OM, and it's more terrible that said OM was H's long-time friend...but I still hold OM as accountable as the OP. Saying that if it hadn't been H's friend, it would have been another OM doesn't change the fact that this OM was H's friend. She didn't jump the gun on this affair on her own; OM did encourage it.

I believe OP said something along the lines of OM was a good man who made
a bad choice or something (I will re-read her post)she appeared to have some
remaining feelings of affection or positive view of him - I was simply pointing
out that she was sleeping with a man who would not only violate another marriage
- but his best friends as well. My point here is not to blame him exactly (he
does deserve a heck of alot) - but to have her stop having any views that OM
was a good guy so she can move on.

I believe she stated she didn't want to believe the worst of OM, because she connected whatever conclusion she has of him to her view of herself. If she views him as a horrible, despicable human being, she would see the same in herself. No, she should not compare herself to OM (which I believe she also realizes), but it may take time to rewire her thinking on the matter. As for looking out for his well-being? She's more worried about what will happen to her husband-socially and financially-than anything.

That being said, it's probably best she stand by his decision, even if she does so reluctantly; it would prove to her H that she truly wishes to reconcile, and perhaps would appeal to his common sense.

June 30, 2013

She knows. She is an old college friend of H's. He gave OM a day or two to tell her, then called to make sure he had told her.
I don't want to give up. I love him so much. It hurts so much to see him in pain. I feel like I'm being ripped apart even thinking about him leaving. I wish I had understood this then. But then, I was ready to leave. We have done a lot of growing and bonding since then and I think it would be 10 times as hard now. I know it's only been five months, but I've had some fundamental shifts in my perception of things.
As far as continued loyalty to the OM. I shared a lot with him. I know he's scum, but it's hard to let him go. It's hard to think of him that way, to think of everything we shared as a sham. I know that it was, but wrapping my mind and emotions around it are another thing altogether.
I really want this to work (with H), and we have so many better days now. But the bad days seem worse in some ways. He still loves me and he still wants me, but he says he doesn't feel married to me right now. He says he wants R, but when he gets upset at me, he wonders if it's worth it. Today he told me I should go be with OM and take him for granted the way I took H for granted. After all, that's the way OM deserves to be treated.
But I don't want to be with OM. I don't love him. My feelings for him are that affair addiction haze that people have. They aren't real. They linger, but they can't hold a candle to what H and I had.
There's no way to take it back, and no way to make it go away. I'm just not sure how to go forward.

I'm impressed at your overall ability to see the situation clearly.

If your really think your H is going to try and apply a beatdown to the OM you need to remind him of the consequences. Maybe watch Silver Linings Playbook with him.... as the movie starts with him getting out of 8 months in a psych jail after beating his w's OM... and losing his career in the process.

Additionally, you need to consider why he feels this need to whallop the other guy. What emotion is driving that? Chances are you can appease the issue without a physical fight.

June 30, 2013

A short (and perhaps not entirely coherent response).

Trip wire.

In the future – a month out – your husband will confront his POS friend. This he has let you know, and now he is monitoring every aspect of your response.

Trip wire.

If you continue to defend the azzhole - and give your husband any (even subtle) indication that you think the OM is “not bad” - and if you are not willing to tell your husband upfront and honestly that you now see the OM as scum - and also that you recognize that your behaviour was in the same vein – and without a doubt if you hold onto a memory of the OM in any positive way after this warning/situation…. Then:

Trip wire.

Most certainly if you contact that man to warn him, you will have tripped the wire. And the (emotional) land mine will have exploded.

Please re-read BetrahedH’ post (and other related posts) very carefully. They are quite insightful. It's time you support your husband (again, please re-read those posts). Best wishes.

Edited June 30, 2013 by AbeNormal

July 1, 2013

Fair enough.

.

Thank you for a engaging and "on issue" debate/discussion.

I hope OP can get healthy and prevent her husband form doing something violent which could damage his future life and hers.

July 1, 2013

Thank you for a engaging and "on issue" debate/discussion.

I hope OP can get healthy and prevent her husband form doing something violent which could damage his future life and hers.

No trouble at all, and as do I.

July 1, 2013

I agree that best friend deserves blame - alot. My point was this - a friend takes no vows, no pledge, no formal legal or spiritual commitments. No one can make a WS cheat. I believe (but have no proof ) that while he has a right for anger at friend, I believe he is putting too much of it on him, and not enough on wife. It is common in these situations for a man to focus the majority of the anger on OM and not wife. Perhaps I over stated this point in my my first response, but wife is the one with the vow.

No, but he went in willingly and could have said No way, you're my best buddies wife, I'm not going to help you cheat on him, and hurt him! But the guy didn't do that, he helped himself knowing full well what he was doing and not caring. They both were equally selfish. Yes she is to blame more because she is the married one here but he knew better and still chose to do this to his best friend, hurt him in the worst possible way too.

He's still stewing about his wife, no doubt, he isn't sure if the marriage is worth fighting for and saving. Throw in the midst of this, he has anger towards his best friend and feels betrayed by him, rightfully so. This situation isn't a typical affair in the sense the AP (affair partner) is unknown and could've been anybody.

July 1, 2013

One or two punches in the face (which I'm pretty sure exOM WILL take and keep his mouth shut about it) isn't worth calling the cops over. As for the social fallout, who are you referring to? Nosy neighbours? Family? Friends? If anything, the chances are higher most would totally back your H up and understand why he punched exOM.

Social fallout as in what? Being shunned? Or people finding out the truth that you cheated on your H with his best friend?

It may not be worth calling the cops over, but people have called the police for far less.

I had some woman hit me in the face and then call the cops when I kicked her ass. It was just some scratches and bruises, but she still called the police.

Men do not normally call the police on men when they get beat up, especially when they deserve it.

July 1, 2013

As moderation has received a number of reports on this thread tonight, a quick review indicates more time and energy should be spent on bringing it into compliance. We'll get to that and bring it back when complete. No need to report any more postings. Thanks.

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BS wants to declare war on AP

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