So what "exactly" constitutes an affair?

[HopingAgain]

I didn't want to threadjack another post here, but saw it expressed that if an affair doesn't get to a point of "I love yous" being exchanged, or sexual intercourse, it shouldn't be classified as an affair, and should be gotten over quickly by the BS and the WS.

 

I wanted to address this misconception, because even my own therapist initially classified my husbands own affair as a "fling" because there was no sex and ILYs hadn't occurred, until I broke down to her exactly what I felt and the aftermath as a result of this fling, then she said I was right! LOL.

 

So what, in BS's minds, classifies a true affair? Some people seem to even feel that Emotional Affairs aren't truly real or a big deal because they haven't become physical, but we all know that isn't true. Why is there such a misconception that betrayal has to have a certain severity level to cause pain?

[JustAReformedGirl]

I didn't want to threadjack another post here, but saw it expressed that if an affair doesn't get to a point of "I love yous" being exchanged, or sexual intercourse, it shouldn't be classified as an affair, and should be gotten over quickly by the BS and the WS.

 

I wanted to address this misconception, because even my own therapist initially classified my husbands own affair as a "fling" because there was no sex and ILYs hadn't occurred, until I broke down to her exactly what I felt and the aftermath as a result of this fling, then she said I was right! LOL.

 

So what, in BS's minds, classifies a true affair? Some people seem to even feel that Emotional Affairs aren't truly real or a big deal because they haven't become physical, but we all know that isn't true. Why is there such a misconception that betrayal has to have a certain severity level to cause pain?

 

I can't say I fully agree with the part I bolded, there. But that entirely depends on how you mean it.

 

Here are my examples:

 

1) An emotional affair that involved sexting, sending naked or alluring photos, and spending more time with the OM/OW-minus any intimacy- still constitutes as an affair.

 

2) An emotional affair that is purely just honest emotion between the people in question, but is never acted upon, nor involves sexting, pictures, or any intimacy of any kind-through words or spending time together-barely fits into the category of "affair", in my opinion.

 

After all, as far as emotions go, we cannot help how we feel about another person; what we can do is decide whether to act on it, or not. That, to me, makes the difference between having an affair, and not having an affair.

 

if we never act on those feelings-no matter how strong-I don't consider it an affair.

 

If we act on it in any manner mentioned above, then it constitutes as one; keeping in mind though, it comes in varying degrees.

 

(Sorry, I don't have black and white vision: if no one likes my opinion, just come to terms with the fact that it is my opinion, and I'm entitled to it just as much as everyone else is entitled to theirs. Putting that out there, because I'm irritable, and tired of people nit-picking my posts. You've been forewarned).

[MissBee]

I think what you said is right....betrayal.

 

Perhaps betrayal is a more accurate word which sums up a multitude of scenarios which can deeply hurt one and erode trust and security in a marriage.

 

People can disagree about what an affair is, what an EA is, a fling, what comprises an affair etc...but one cannot dispute what feeling betrayed feels like...and if you feel betrayed, something is wrong. So the thing, whatever it is, that leads to that feeling should be addressed and the name for the specific betrayal is irrelevant IMO.

[HopingAgain]

I can't say I fully agree with the part I bolded, there. But that entirely depends on how you mean it.

 

Here are my examples:

 

1) An emotional affair that involved sexting, sending naked or alluring photos, and spending more time with the OM/OW-minus any intimacy- still constitutes as an affair.

 

2) An emotional affair that is purely just honest emotion between the people in question, but is never acted upon, nor involves sexting, pictures, or any intimacy of any kind-through words or spending time together-barely fits into the category of "affair", in my opinion.

 

After all, as far as emotions go, we cannot help how we feel about another person; what we can do is decide whether to act on it, or not. That, to me, makes the difference between having an affair, and not having an affair.

 

if we never act on those feelings-no matter how strong-I don't consider it an affair.

 

If we act on it in any manner mentioned above, then it constitutes as one; keeping in mind though, it comes in varying degrees.

 

(Sorry, I don't have black and white vision: if no one likes my opinion, just come to terms with the fact that it is my opinion, and I'm entitled to it just as much as everyone else is entitled to theirs. Putting that out there, because I'm irritable, and tired of people nit-picking my posts. You've been forewarned).

 

I agree that noone can help what they feel. Feelings aren't right or wrong, they just exist and we can't control them.

 

However, I disagree on your #2 because lines can be crossed as far as level of sharing and intimacy even when there are no overtly sexual gestures exchanged or sexting, etc. I think this is where what constitutes a betrayal can get tricky, because many times people have differing opinions of what crosses the line in marriage if sex isn't involved.

[HopingAgain]

I think what you said is right....betrayal.

 

Perhaps betrayal is a more accurate word which sums up a multitude of scenarios which can deeply hurt one and erode trust and security in a marriage.

 

People can disagree about what an affair is, what an EA is, a fling, what comprises an affair etc...but one cannot dispute what feeling betrayed feels like...and if you feel betrayed, something is wrong. So the thing, whatever it is, that leads to that feeling should be addressed and the name for the specific betrayal is irrelevant IMO.

 

This really sums it up so well, the feeling of being betrayed is what really seems to define what an affair is, or isn't!

[Owl]

I'm going to disagree a little bit with RD's interpretation, and I'll use on my own situation to do so.

 

My wife refused to participate in any "sexting" or anything of a sexual nature with her OM during her EA. She's just not comfortable with that kind of interaction...even with me. Her desires all around being physically proximate...she doesn't enjoy that kind of communication.

 

So...her EA was full of "I love you's", full of discussions of being together in the future, and included discussions of what it would take to do so (meaning, leaving me).

 

He attempted several times to get her to communicate about that 'physical side'...but she didn't/wouldn't...because that's not how SHE communicates.

 

But the emotional side was still proceeding, and being acted upon. On d-day, she was all set to fly off and live with him...even though they'd never met in person.

 

So from my perspective, her betrayal of me was equal to that of any other EMOTIONAL affair.

 

From my perspective...intimate communication...whether or not it includes a sexual component...that you hide from your spouse and leads to the development of an emotional/physical relationship...is an affair. And a betrayal.

[JustAReformedGirl]

I agree that noone can help what they feel. Feelings aren't right or wrong, they just exist and we can't control them.

 

However, I disagree on your #2 because lines can be crossed as far as level of sharing and intimacy even when there are no overtly sexual gestures exchanged or sexting, etc. I think this is where what constitutes a betrayal can get tricky, because many times people have differing opinions of what crosses the line in marriage if sex isn't involved.

 

Like I said, it's only my opinion of the matter. I do agree with you that it gets tricky, knowing whether the line has been crossed or not. I would compromise with your perspective on this, and say that it's walking on the knife's edge, in this case. Simply because everyone does have a different idea of where the line is, and whether it's been crossed or not. I don't think anyone is right or wrong in those opinions; however, I think when entering a serious relationship, it's prudent to discuss with one's partner what their definition is, and what your own is, to ensure that if any issues come up in the future, they can be appropriately dealt with.

 

I know, not usually an ideal conversation when starting a relationship, but one that can help us avoid stumbling blocks, especially if they're past stumbling blocks we've tripped over.

[JustAReformedGirl]

I'm going to disagree a little bit with RD's interpretation, and I'll use on my own situation to do so.

 

My wife refused to participate in any "sexting" or anything of a sexual nature with her OM during her EA. She's just not comfortable with that kind of interaction...even with me. Her desires all around being physically proximate...she doesn't enjoy that kind of communication.

 

So...her EA was full of "I love you's", full of discussions of being together in the future, and included discussions of what it would take to do so (meaning, leaving me).

 

He attempted several times to get her to communicate about that 'physical side'...but she didn't/wouldn't...because that's not how SHE communicates.

 

But the emotional side was still proceeding, and being acted upon. On d-day, she was all set to fly off and live with him...even though they'd never met in person.

 

So from my perspective, her betrayal of me was equal to that of any other EMOTIONAL affair.

 

From my perspective...intimate communication...whether or not it includes a sexual component...that you hide from your spouse and leads to the development of an emotional/physical relationship...is an affair. And a betrayal.

 

No, I agree with your interpretation. I think I may not have made that post clear. Your wife was talking intimately with this OM. Talking about leaving, exchanging "I love yous" falls into the EA category, for sure.

 

I meant more in the regard that after the two people have initially admitted to having feelings for one another, no further conversations of that type occurred.

[janedoe67]

I hope it is okay for me to answer as a FWW.

 

For me, looking back, my A with the man in my career field began the summer that he and I began talking when it was not necessary and there was flirting involved. It was not communication I would have wanted my husband to know about (though their was no sex talk or sexting, but it was clearly not completely platonic). That was also when I first shared a few of our marriage problems with the OM. IF that doesn't qualify as an A, then that December when we told each other we had feelings of attraction....that was most certainly infidelity. Any relationship that involves betrayal, deception and secrets from one's spouse, and expressing feelings that should be reserved for one's spouse is cheating IMO.

 

In other words, it is my opinion that with regard to most "full blown affairs," the die is cast way way before the sex enters the picture, and a smart person won't "tempt fate" by seeing how far they can stick their toe in before they get wet.

[dichotomy]

My wife does not think she had an "emotional affair" on me. It is something were are about to revisit in our current couples therapy.

 

My (now wife) was sexually and emotionally involved with a married man for well over 2.5 years before she met me. I knew nothing of this when we got involved, engaged, or married.

 

When she and I became involved physically, she dropped the sexual part with OM... but not fully the rest of their realtionship - and continued to see and communicate with him in secrete. The communications included sexual discussions, including his and my performance, details of our relationship, my life, my health, our pending marriage...... and it included atleast one letter that I found where she expressed of not being sure if she should marry me, how she missed him and her past life, and how special he was and how she thought of him when it was dark out. He sent her poetry and continued to try to get her to resume their sexual relationship. Oh - and it also included taking me to hangout with him and others, without me knowing anything, and everyone around me knowing who they had ben. Their were secrete emails, texts, calls, and occassional meetings right up to and after we were married when she finally confessed what their realtionship was/had been.

 

So their was no sex during this time frame.... so was this an "affair"? an emotional one ?

 

I suspect at least the OM's wife and I would agree it was to both of us.

Edited June 28, 2013 by dichotomy

[underwater2010]

Anytime you have to sneak around....ie not talking about the person, hiding your phone, dare I even say feel all flustered around the person (yet keep up the relationship)....you are having an affair.

 

A great way to set boundaries is to ask yourself.....if my spouse where to act/do this, how would I feel?

 

Also, people need to realize there is a reason we feel guilt and when it rears its head it is time to look at what you are doing.

 

You don't have to have ILYs or sex for it to be an affair. Just look at all the inappropriate chatting that cause pain all the time.

[waterwoman]

Secrecy, declarations of love, discussions about leaving your partner (even when the conclusion is no) constitutes an EA. I strongly suspect H and OW were getting inappropriately close to each other prior to the time H said the affair started but IMO it didn't start until mutual expressions of love were exchanged. That is what makes me mad! No they couldn't help their feelings but neither were children, they could have stepped back at this point and not fed those feelings.

 

But by my own definition I have just classified my own EA 19 years ago as not an EA... because I stepped back when he tried to step it up. But it was still an infatuation with a strong connection. Confusing...

Edited June 29, 2013 by waterwoman

[Spark1111]

well, the best definitions I've heard are these:

 

If you don't really know if it's inappropriate, ask your spouse.....

 

AND,

 

If you wouldn't say, do it, view it, with your spouse standing right beside you, than it is cheating!

 

The minute you keep a text, sext, email, conversation a SECRET, you have just crossed a boundary in your marriage.

 

pretty simple, no?

 

At whatever you start heavily investing in a relationship outside the marriage, whether emotional or physical, is LESS you have to invest into your marriage.

[HopingAgain]

I think it's safe to say that we universally agree on if a spouse engages in behavior with another person that they wouldn't in front of their spouse, it's cheating.

 

Many WS also seem to feel that if intercourse didn't take place, it was "Not cheating", or "not that bad." My own WH didn't feel like he had really gone as far as actual cheating because the affair was halted before intercourse took place. I knocked him down off that Fog pedestal immediately. I think it really is a self protective mechanism that helps them to assuage some of the guilt. It really is amazing how many people have loose and poor boundaries when uit comes to the opposite sex.

[HopingAgain]

I hope it is okay for me to answer as a FWW.

 

For me, looking back, my A with the man in my career field began the summer that he and I began talking when it was not necessary and there was flirting involved. It was not communication I would have wanted my husband to know about (though their was no sex talk or sexting, but it was clearly not completely platonic). That was also when I first shared a few of our marriage problems with the OM. IF that doesn't qualify as an A, then that December when we told each other we had feelings of attraction....that was most certainly infidelity. Any relationship that involves betrayal, deception and secrets from one's spouse, and expressing feelings that should be reserved for one's spouse is cheating IMO.

 

In other words, it is my opinion that with regard to most "full blown affairs," the die is cast way way before the sex enters the picture, and a smart person won't "tempt fate" by seeing how far they can stick their toe in before they get wet.

 

This...about tempting fate, so very true! I think most affairs get started because people think they are strong enough to resist temptation, so they put themselves in very dangerous situations and then find out too late that they don't possess super human powers of restraint.

[janedoe67]

I think that unless your spouse is just an overly paranoid person, anytime you feel yourself expending a whole lot of energy explaining why something you are doing isn't really an affair.....

 

It probably is

[Spark1111]

I think it's safe to say that we universally agree on if a spouse engages in behavior with another person that they wouldn't in front of their spouse, it's cheating.

 

Many WS also seem to feel that if intercourse didn't take place, it was "Not cheating", or "not that bad." My own WH didn't feel like he had really gone as far as actual cheating because the affair was halted before intercourse took place. I knocked him down off that Fog pedestal immediately. I think it really is a self protective mechanism that helps them to assuage some of the guilt. It really is amazing how many people have loose and poor boundaries when uit comes to the opposite sex.

 

that is such a fallacy and it is true fog-speak and delusional rationalization on the part of WS, no?

 

I had to hammer home that point after DDay with my fWS: So.....I can call a man at home? flirt over the water cooler? Send him off- color jokes? Fondle him? Lots of sex, just not INTERCOURSE?

 

You wouldn't think I was cheating on you, IF I DID THAT?

 

He got it.

[HopingAgain]

that is such a fallacy and it is true fog-speak and delusional rationalization on the part of WS, no?

 

I had to hammer home that point after DDay with my fWS: So.....I can call a man at home? flirt over the water cooler? Send him off- color jokes? Fondle him? Lots of sex, just not INTERCOURSE?

 

You wouldn't think I was cheating on you, IF I DID THAT?

 

He got it.

 

Yep! I did the same thing. It seems that lack of empathy runs rampant in affairs, they simply do not think about what they would do or how they would feel if the shoe was on the other foot. My WH has already expressed how angry and destroyed he would be if I cheated on him. That was a real "DUH" moment, where I had to let him know that's exactly what I felt when he cheated.

[Queen of Sheba]

My OH thought the fact that he started an affair purely to have sex and that everything he did for her and said to her was for sex and that he didn't love her it wasn't an affair! How ridiculous is that? I think he thought that he was better than anyone else who had an affair! I have put him right!