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I may never marry...cant wait till that question comes up

kaylan

By kaylan
in General Relationship Discussion

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KungFuJoe Established Member

KungFuJoe

Posted
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Unfortunately, they sometimes stomp on the wrong fathers. As is the case with government...

 

It's not perfect. NO legal system is perfect. We imprison innocent people and free guilty ones.

 

But it's the best that we've got to work with.

fortyninethousand322 Established Member

fortyninethousand322

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There are "symbolic" reasons for getting married that can't really be explained until you fall in love and get married.

 

I guess the only way for me to describe it is that, no...I would not be any less "dedicated" to my partner if we weren't married.

 

But I abso****inglutely LOVE that I can say I'm married to her. Make any sense?

 

Sure. But couldn't you still say that, even if you didn't have the paperwork?

 

If all you had was the ceremony, wouldn't you still be married?

KungFuJoe Established Member

KungFuJoe

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I see you don't have any refutations to my point that complaining about deadbeats when they were deadbeats when you chose to receive their seed is ludicrous.

 

What is there to refute? Your statements are just plain silly and unrealistic.

 

You are basically saying that if a woman gets pregnant by a guy who isn't responsible...too ****ing bad. And to the child...too ****ing bad also.

 

Is that what you're saying?

ltjg45 Established Member

ltjg45

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Hold up a sec...so it's the WOMAN'S fault for getting knocked up by a dead beat? If I recall, it takes two to get someone pregnant.

 

That would imply that the dead beat male, in this case, even gives a damn about the woman, which he doesn't.

 

His actions before the woman has slept with him would be obvious enough to see. There is very few "dead beats" out there with a working, functional brain. I'm sure there is some out there but they are quite a rare human being to find.....and I hope I never meet one, either.

fortyninethousand322 Established Member

fortyninethousand322

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It's not perfect. NO legal system is perfect. We imprison innocent people and free guilty ones.

 

But it's the best that we've got to work with.

 

I don't know. I'd like to set the bar just a tad higher...

KungFuJoe Established Member

KungFuJoe

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Sure. But couldn't you still say that, even if you didn't have the paperwork?

 

If all you had was the ceremony, wouldn't you still be married?

 

It's like celebrating winning the NBA championship without actually playing the games.

 

Plus I'm pretty sure you are required to show paperwork. I know we were.

tbf Established Member

tbf

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Not just estate taxes. It also applies to tax breaks, combined income if both parties are working, hospital visitation rights and the ability to legally make medical decisions for an incapacitated spouse.

 

Also, child care and domestic duties should be halved, if you're both working.

 

Frankly, I have no sympathy for traditional men who want all the perks of a traditional marriage and if the marriage breaks down, don't want to pay the traditional price.

fortyninethousand322 Established Member

fortyninethousand322

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Not just estate taxes. It also applies to tax breaks, combined income if both parties are working, hospital visitation rights and the ability to legally make medical decisions for an incapacitated spouse.

 

Also, child care and domestic duties should be halved, if you're both working.

 

Frankly, I have no sympathy for traditional men who want all the perks of a traditional marriage and if the marriage breaks down, don't want to pay the traditional price.

 

Depends on why the marriage broke down I suppose.

ltjg45 Established Member

ltjg45

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What is there to refute? Your statements are just plain silly and unrealistic.

 

You are basically saying that if a woman gets pregnant by a guy who isn't responsible...too ****ing bad. And to the child...too ****ing bad also.

 

Is that what you're saying?

 

The only person I would show any mercy towards is the child because he/she shouldn't be here and the child will most likely suffer badly because of it/

 

The woman? Not in this case because it was a pretty stupid decision on her part and she ended up paying the price.

KungFuJoe Established Member

KungFuJoe

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Correct. What is the court going to do to this deadbeat musician? Force him into a lucrative career in finance?

 

No, but force him to pay child support. Done.

KungFuJoe Established Member

KungFuJoe

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Because as we all know, rare exceptions invalidate the rule.

 

I know someone who survived a fall from a ten story building, does that invalidate the fact that a fall from that height is generally fatal?

 

What I'm saying is...you can't predict the future. The person you're with today could turn into a monster tomorrow.

 

Might as well not have kids if a requirement is KNOWING that both parties will remain responsible parents for the duration of the child's upbringing.

 

Sorry...but that's not possible. The SOLE REASON humans exist is to procreate.

KungFuJoe Established Member

KungFuJoe

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He gets paid in cash for his gigs.

 

The system is pretty good these days.

 

I know a deadbeat dad who is a club promotor/bouncer. He gets paid in cash and has 5 kids (from three different mothers) and wasn't paying ANY child support for his first kid.

 

Not anymore. Courts found out and he is now paying child support...unwillingly.

KungFuJoe Established Member

KungFuJoe

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But are you denying the fact that complaining about someone being irresponsible when he was irresponsible when you met and subsequently bred with him is silly?

 

It takes TWO to get pregnant. Why do you keep on making it seem like it's only the woman's responsibility?

 

This isn't rocket science. It takes two people to make a kid. So it should take two to be responsible.

KungFuJoe Established Member

KungFuJoe

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Because as we all know, rare exceptions invalidate the rule.

 

I know someone who survived a fall from a ten story building, does that invalidate the fact that a fall from that height is generally fatal?

 

A fall from a ten foot building is pretty damn predictable. You're either dead or seriously effing hurt.

 

Predicting the type of person you're with is the most difficult thing in the world to do because of all the dynamics of human personality, emotion, life changes, etc.

ltjg45 Established Member

ltjg45

Posted
Posted
It takes TWO to get pregnant. Why do you keep on making it seem like it's only the woman's responsibility?

 

This isn't rocket science. It takes two people to make a kid. So it should take two to be responsible.

 

IF you can get the deadbeat male, who has shown his colors before the woman slept with him, to actually be responsible.

 

As so many people here has said, "You can't change a person" so if you can see that he is not responsible and yet you STILL slept with him while knowing that.....

 

That isn't rocket science either.

KungFuJoe Established Member

KungFuJoe

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Are you trolling or?

 

If I start a business with some I know is untrustworthy and ( shocker ) he screws me over in our business dealings, was I a dumbass for starting a business with him?

 

I mean he should've been responsible.

 

But I knew he wasn't prior to going into business with him.

 

Am I trolling? I should be asking you that.

 

What experience do you have with marriage and kids anyways? I'm married with three kids (one of whom is a stepson and I had to get my wife to take her ex to court because he stopped paying child support).

 

I think I know a thing or two about this subject.

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tbf Established Member

tbf

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Depends on why the marriage broke down I suppose.
*shrugs* Traditional marriage comes with perks and downfalls. No sympathy here at all.

 

If you were to reverse the genders in a traditional marriage structure, I'd have no sympathy for the working woman. She would have enjoyed the years of having domestic duty and caregiving taken care of, free of charge where the man spent the best years of earning abilities, taking care of his family.

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KungFuJoe Established Member

KungFuJoe

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I can't help but notice you neglected to address my point.

 

What point? That if you choose to make a "deal" with someone who you know is untrustworthy, that 100% of the responsibility lies on you?

 

The other person gets off scott free? That's your point?

MissBee Established Member

MissBee

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This is an enormous and timely question. Are you familiar with the SCOTUS decision this week regarding DOMA? (regarding gay marriage rights). The right to marry, and the respect of the state as the closest family member, has very real implications for people, as does the right to be covered by a spouse's health insurance, social security, inherit their pension, etc.

 

I think that when it comes to marriage, people don't realize or think about the fact that, marriage is one of the things we participate in to be part of a civilized society. Our society isn't just a free for all, but if you live in a society, with a government, we have so many social and legal contracts that govern us from birth until death...from the certificate of birth to the death certificate. Everything we do, in civilized societies and complex societies, requires contracts and has to be under some order. Even if you opt out of marriage, from birth until death, you still have to be under some contract. From your rent agreement, what you sign for your job, getting a degree etc.

 

Marriage is a social and legal contract, which you can participate in or not, love is part of it, but has nothing to do with it in another sense. I don't think the legalities of marriage take away or add to the love...it's simply a part of civilized society like health insurance and the other benefits you name. I see it as I see education for example. I can stay at home and read all the books on the syllabi for my courses, write papers and perhaps get the same information....but I can't do that in this society then march up to the school and demand a degree or demand employers to employ me. In order to get the degree I need to attend the school, be a part of the classes, be contracted and registered to the school to get the benefits like health insurance, financial aid, my degree, recommendations etc. Love of learning is irrelevant. I can still love learning, but it has nothing to do with the fact that education is an institution, that is respected and valued, esp in specialized job markets and I can participate for the benefits or not. Likewise marriage is the same. You can have love or not without marriage...but you can't change that societies value marriage and give couples certain rights and privileges legally, financially, immigration-wise, etc. If you want those benefits as dictated by your society, then you can marry...your own emotional aspect about love is on YOU. If you don't particularly care about those other aspects...then you can forego the social and legal contract and just focus on love.

MrCastle Established Member

MrCastle

Posted
Posted
What point? That if you choose to make a "deal" with someone who you know is untrustworthy, that 100% of the responsibility lies on you?

 

The other person gets off scott free? That's your point?

 

A scorpion was walking along the river banks one day and saw a frog in the water.

 

"Hey Mr. Frog! Do you think you can give me a ride to the other side of the river? The waves look rough and I cannot swim," said the scorpion.

 

"Why would I help you? You'll just sting me as soon as you jump on my back," the frog replied.

 

"My friend, don't be silly. If I sting you while I am riding you in the water, we will both die," replied the scorpion.

 

"Well then you'll just sting me once you are close enough to hop onto land," said the frog, still skeptical.

 

"Mr. Frog, at that point I will be so thankful for your generosity, I wouldn't even think to sting you," said the scorpion.

 

"Alright I suppose. Hop on," said the frog, deciding to help the scorpion across.

 

The scorpion hopped on the frog's back and away they went. The frog navigated the rough waves, going easy to make sure the scorpion would not fall off.

 

When they got halfway to the other side, the frog felt a sharp jolt in his back, and turned around to see the scorpion pulling his stinger out of the frog's back.

 

"What did you do?!," the frog exclaimed. "Now we're both going to die!"

 

The scorpion simply replied "I'm a scorpion."

 

Both the frog and the scorpion then sank under the rough waves of the river.

tbf Established Member

tbf

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the scorpion
Presumption about the evil nature of women. Consider projection.
ThaWholigan Established Member

ThaWholigan

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Presumption about the evil nature of women. Consider projection.

Following the analogy of the story, he could just as easily be comparing the woman who gets impregnated by the deadbeat to the frog who gets stung by the frog.

 

Either way, the analogy fails to cover the depths of deception that people engage in. Nit everybody presents themselves as "the scorpion".

  • Like 1
MrCastle Established Member

MrCastle

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Presumption about the evil nature of women. Consider projection.

 

Wow. Quite a reach.

 

Actually it's a very old story about how people are going to be who they are no matter what.

 

If I wanted to attack women I wouldn't do it secretly.

tbf Established Member

tbf

Posted
Posted
What point? That if you choose to make a "deal" with someone who you know is untrustworthy, that 100% of the responsibility lies on you?

 

The other person gets off scott free? That's your point?

 

Wow. Quite a reach.

 

Actually it's a very old story about how people are going to be who they are no matter what.

 

If I wanted to attack women I wouldn't do it secretly.

Don't try to weasel out of this one. I've quoted the post that you're responding to.
MrCastle Established Member

MrCastle

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Don't try to weasel out of this one. I've quoted the post that you're responding to.

 

Maybe you're unfamiliar with my work. When I dislike something or someone, I make it known. Have the bans to prove it. No "weaseling" necessary.

 

I was responding to KFJ's question of whether the other party should be 100% responsible if they knowingly involve themselves with the wrong person. The answer is, yes. If you know they're a scorpion, don't give them a ride.

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