I may never marry...cant wait till that question comes up

[kaylan]

This is something Ive been thinking about lately. However, this thread here finally gave me the little push to post this. This is long, but do skim it.

 

Im 26, going on 27 later this year. Some of you are familiar with my love/dating history and outlook. But for those who are not, I basically used to be like some of those people posting in the linked thread. From the time I started dating, up until about age 22/23 I thought marriage was the end game. I had all these dreams about life long love. I was very idealistic...thanks much in part to the tv shows and movies I grew up watching.

 

But as I got older, had relationships, some heart break, some love, and dated around a bit, I realized life long love isnt a guarantee. Nor is it my end-game any longer. The big house with rugrats running about isnt a big goal, and it really never was. My big goal used to be just having a great girl to love, and living together inside a metropolis. And while I still like that idea, my experiences have shaped me to want other things as well.

 

For one, I value my freedom. Freedom to come and go as I please and not be accountable to anyone but myself and maybe a significant other. Another thing is that for the most part, the only person any of us can ever be 100% sure of is ourselves when it comes to love. People change, grow together, though many times grow apart, and its something I accept happens. While I believe many of us, including myself, are monogamous folks...I think we are realistically serial monogamists.

 

Do I look at a failed relationship/marriage as a complete failure? Depends on the relationship and how it came to its end. In some cases people realize they grown into different people, and that a lot of good love was had during that time, but now it was time to move on. I feel too many people have this idealistic, till death, and that you must get married, view of love. Some folks are looking for the right person to get married and have kids with and refuse to compromise. Others simply know that those are things they never really needed. Far be it from me to assume it says anything about their ability to love or be loved.

 

Now in regards to kids Im very open to adoption in the future. I wont lie and say I dont get baby fever from time to time, and that prego women dont make smile, because they do. But its generally fleeting feelings. Im drawn to all the cuteness and stuff. I know I may get to a time in my life where I really want kids, and if by chance thats 40, I dont want babies at that age. Id rather adopt a young kid who needs a good home instead of entering middle age raising babies. There is pressure on me to have kids though, seeing as Im now the only boy who can carry on my paternal grandfathers blood line.

 

All this being said, I can only imagine this making dating difficult. Certainly there are some women out there who go with the flow, dont wanna rush things, and are 50/50 about kids. But those women can be pretty rare, and usually most women who think that way are under 25. Not exactly out of my dating bracket, but I realize that once women enter their mid 20s and definitely by their late 20s, they date for the sole purpose of a house with kids and a fence one day.

 

Im still not dating that way and dont know if or when I will. I date in the here and now. I date for fun, adventure, and love....all knowing its possible it wont last forever. While love is on my radar, kids and settling down arent. And while love is on my radar, it doesnt mean dating around wont be on my radar either.

 

But will I try to hold on to a girl who clearly wants marriage and stuff? Not at all. And I dont think Im at the age yet where women ask you about marriage and kids before they really know you. I think its in your 30s where people start asking about that during very early dating. I know some may say Im doing a lot of risk aversion, or throw out the "typical commitment-phobe male" card....but Im having a hard time understanding why people are so obsessed with marriage. I can be committed without it, the same way 50% of those who marry end up not being committed despite having married.

Edited June 27, 2013 by kaylan

[clia]

I'm with you -- I don't understand the obsession with getting married either. It's completely fine if you don't want to get married. I never wanted it. But be prepared -- people don't understand it at all. They will always question you, tell you condescendingly that "Oh, you just haven't met the right person yet." Or they think something must be horrendously wrong with you if you aren't married and are older.

 

I think you can have a committed, wonderful relationship without getting married. The older I've gotten, the less desire I have to get married. (The thought of financially entangling myself with someone else at this point is not appealing at all. I've seen too many of my friends have their credit destroyed due to an irresponsible spouse and have to spend substantial sums on divorce attorneys. No thanks.)

 

But wow, people don't get it. LOL. Well -- people who have gone through bad divorces totally get it. People who have never gotten married and people who are very happily married are the ones who primarily don't understand it.

 

I'm staying away from the thread you linked because of all the stereotyping going on over there. I know plenty of perfectly normal people in their late thirties and forties who have never married. There are a lot of valid reasons why a person may reach that age and have never married, chief among them that the person does not want to get married. I've never had any problems finding men to date me and have relationships with me, either, despite my crazed views on marriage. I guess what I'm trying to say is that there are a lot more people out there like you than you think.

[tbf]

kaylan, there are no questions in your opening post.

 

If you don't want to get married, don't. What am I missing?

[PogoStick]

I have a "take life as it comes" attitude. I'm not going to try and force a lifelong relationship, but it's fine if that happens. However, I'm also open to ideas like lifelong serial dating, polyamory, free love, all that kind of stuff. The one caveat is that I feel a long stable relationship is better for raising kids.

[Fondue]

I work in healthcare, so most of my population is retired old folk. They always question me, my marital status, etc. WHenever I tell them that I don't see marriage in my future, they ALWAYS question it.

 

So I feel you, brother.

 

The one answer that always works for me is this: "I know people picture themselves having a beautiful wife, a pair of kids, having a nice house with a white picket fence and living 'that life.' But you know what? I don't see that for myself. I don't have that image in my head. It is not in my future. I don't feel 'it.'" At this point they usually "understand" and back off.

 

Try it .

[deenalowens]

I think the important thing is to be open - if the most amazing person for you happen to meet and you can build a beautiful life with them, do it, in a healthy way.

 

You're right in that it shouldn't be forced, however.

[kaylan]

kaylan, there are no questions in your opening post.

 

If you don't want to get married, don't. What am I missing?

Im starting a discussion, not really asking a question. Do we always need to ask question to spark discussion?

[MrCastle]

I said in a thread about a week ago that marriage is an antiquated establishment.

 

People are living much longer now. Maybe back in the day when the life expectancy was 60, marrying at 20 wasn't such a bold idea. But some people are STILL getting married young (I know people younger than me with spouses and kids) -- what is their expectation? To completely be faithful to that person for life? Which can now mean 60+ years? It's unrealistic.

 

They say 30 is the new 20 now, because expectations these days are different. Again, back in the day, you were expected to move out of your house at 18 and live with your husband/wife and start popping kids out.

 

Life is different. What are the sheer odds you're going to feel the same way about someone at 25 that you will at 45? (which is still young!)

 

The days of people being married 15, 20 years is over.

 

Add in the fact that marriage was set up in part so that women could be supported by the man--and now women have equal rights and hold jobs of their own, what is the incentive?

 

I can understand wanting to live with someone. I can understand wanting to be with them and having kids with them--what I can't understand is why are we involving the courts? Why do we need a legally binding document that says this is my wife, this is my husband? Why make it that rigid?

 

Seems to me it's much easier to just live with someone and when your love has run it's course, you go your separate ways. Not lose half your stuff in a messy court battle.

[tbf]

Im starting a discussion, not really asking a question. Do we always need to ask question to spark discussion?

A question isn't always necessary to spark discussion. But I'm curious about your agenda for wanting to spark yet another anti-marriage discussion.

 

From my perspective, post divorce, I wasn't certain marriage was for me although I wasn't anti-the-establishment itself. Once I met H, my personal reluctance evaporated in a major hurry.

 

That said, I strongly encourage people who are anti-marriage, not to get married. What I question are the ones who believe themselves to be sufficiently committed for life but won't marry, where I turn their own question of "why get married if you can have it all without" back on them by asking them "if you believe yourself committed for life, legalizing the union shouldn't scare you...right?".

[ThaWholigan]

I think for what I want out of a relationship, I will probably get married. The legal side of it all doesn't bother me, nor do I feel I lack the commitment - although I won't know till I'm in a situation. Generally, marriage fits into my plans for life and having one partner throughout.

[sweetjasmine]

Life is different. What are the sheer odds you're going to feel the same way about someone at 25 that you will at 45? (which is still young!)

 

Expecting to feel the same way is a mistake. In a healthy marriage, people grow...together.

 

The days of people being married 15, 20 years is over.

 

There are couples out there who prove otherwise.

 

Add in the fact that marriage was set up in part so that women could be supported by the man--and now women have equal rights and hold jobs of their own, what is the incentive?

 

I can understand wanting to live with someone. I can understand wanting to be with them and having kids with them--what I can't understand is why are we involving the courts? Why do we need a legally binding document that says this is my wife, this is my husband? Why make it that rigid?

 

Seems to me it's much easier to just live with someone and when your love has run it's course, you go your separate ways. Not lose half your stuff in a messy court battle.

 

If you're really curious about all that, ask the people who were standing on the steps of the Supreme Court yesterday.

[fortyninethousand322]

You know what, I kind of feel the same way, but for different reasons. I was reading some articles and they made me think.

 

I don't think I want to get "legally married". I don't think I want to involve unwanted guests into my person life. If I ever get married I'll be happy to have a ceremony and all of that, I just don't want to have the government involved in something it has no business being involved in.

 

Of course, if the woman I was to marry felt differently, obviously I'd give in...

[MrCastle]

A question isn't always necessary to spark discussion. But I'm curious about your agenda for wanting to spark yet another anti-marriage discussion.

 

From my perspective, post divorce, I wasn't certain marriage was for me although I wasn't anti-the-establishment itself. Once I met H, my personal reluctance evaporated in a major hurry.

 

That said, I strongly encourage people who are anti-marriage, not to get married. What I question are the ones who believe themselves to be sufficiently committed for life but won't marry, where I turn their own question of "why get married if you can have it all without" back on them by asking them "if you believe yourself committed for life, legalizing the union shouldn't scare you...right?".

 

I can't speak for everyone, but as a man I have to say the courts are still heavily tilted in favor of women.

 

One case that always stuck out to me was the rapper Nas' messy divorce battle with his then wife Kelis.

 

She took him to the cleaners.

 

Being a well known musician obviously has it's benefits, so he was financially comfortable to say the least. Well, when they divorced, he had to pay more than $40,000 a month in alimony and child support because she had grown accustomed to their lifestyle.

 

I believe once you separate yourself, whatever lifestyle you were accustomed to is finished. You divorce the man, you divorce the life. But she was still living lavishly. Scarier, even, is the fact that she herself is an artist. Sure, maybe not on the same level of fame as her husband, but nonetheless.

 

Paul McCartney is another example.

 

I realize those are high profile cases with celebs that make a gross amount of money, and that can all be handled with a prenup, but I know a few real life cases that are pretty bogus as well and as a man, I'm terrified of being wiped out of stuff I've worked towards just because my marriage fizzled out.

 

I still don't understand how someone who used to "love" you can willingly clean you out and make your life miserable, but it happens.

 

Of course men are not without fault either and I'm sure there are cases where the man took the woman to the cleaners.

 

Either way, why make a mess of things with lawyers and crazy payments when you can just make an amicable split like a regular break up.

 

Epic messiness and financial woes not necessary.

Edited June 27, 2013 by MrCastle

[xxoo]

.but Im having a hard time understanding why people are so obsessed with marriage..

 

And others (myself included) have a hard time understanding the charms of being detached and free to come and go from relationships. It sounds awful to me, like I'd never have a "home base".

 

Different strokes for different folks! The important thing is not to try to change a person from one type into another--because that doesn't work.

[sweetjasmine]

Either way, why make a mess of things with lawyers and crazy payments when you can just make an amicable split like a regular break up.

 

Epic messiness and financial woes not necessary.

 

What makes you think that splitting up from a long-term live-in situation would be any less messy? If two people have lived together for 8 years, how do they decide who gets to keep the dog? The $800 TV they both chipped in for? The couches? The coffee table that was a gift from a friend? The stand mixer mom got both of you for the holidays? Who gets to keep the house you bought if both your names are on the deed? And if only one of your names is on the deed or the lease, how will the both of you feel about the legal owner having the right to throw your sh-t out on the sidewalk and tell you to gtfo before they call the cops to have you removed?

 

To be clear, I don't think people should be getting married unless they actually want to. I think it's great that more people are deciding for themselves. Marriage is not for everyone. But I still think there are a lot of misconceptions, myths, and straight up fears floating around, and that doesn't do anyone any good, either.

[tbf]

This is what I'll never get. Men who want and have traditional marriages, then get butt-hurt about paying the traditional price.

 

It's not skewed. It's what happens when you have a stay at home spouse who's the major caregiver for children and no prenup. It completely disregards the lack of earning potential while staying at home and the amount of energy put into ensuring that the working spouse doesn't need to put as much energy into domestic duties and also completely disregards the emotional well-being of the child/children since divorce can shake up the secure foundation, never mind the potential emotional impact of losing a primary caregiver.

 

If you don't want a traditional marriage, don't have one. Select a partner who's an equal income earner who has no interest in being a stay at home partner, share equal caregiving to children and ensure you have a prenup.

[MissBee]

Both of my grandmothers never married....my mother married a serial cheater after already having children with him.

 

So in my own life I have never really seen too many personal examples of what good relationships looked like. I've always aspired to marriage though; however, in the last few years my idea of what marriage is and should be has changed and my "perfect age" for it has totally changed. I wanted to be married with kids in tow at 27...now I'm like yeah right! When I see friends and acquaintances announcing their pregnancies and marriages, I am happy for them, but also I'm like omg I can't do that right now! I am focused on living and I'm starting as a doctoral student, and am not at a place where babies and a husband are my immediate goals. I will probably not marry until I am in my thirties...and that is actually fine and ideal for me. I am more interested in having a GOOD relationship first...we can solidify it in marriage at any point, AFTER we've realized it's good. That's more my focus and not seeing marriage as THE goal. Which seems to be some people's orientation...run to get married, figure out the relationship later.

 

I want a life partner and my ideas about life-long love have shifted slightly....where I realize marriage is a commitment and it's not a guarantee. I realistically know that who we are as newly dating and newly weds won't be the same as who we are after the kids have moved out...and we shouldn't be...so my focus is on friendship and growing together and making time for romance versus believing that by some magic the relationship will propel itself and also be the exact same as when it started. I also don't want to be 65 and dating if I don't have to . I am more of a monogamous person and a family oriented person (although I know I harbor a fear of becoming bored in marriage ) and I just feel dread when I think about being in my later years, like 50s and 60s trying to start over or still be dating. So the idea of being married to my bestfriend and having him as my life partner, to go on trips with, hang out with, come home to, play with the grandkids, discuss my anxieties, someone who knows me in and out seems VERY appealing over Sex & The City at 65.

 

I know I want children and know I want to be in a committed relationship to do so, and marriage for me, is that. I however don't have any issues with people who would rather not marry. I also believe that we all have to create the kind of relationship we want, including marriage. There is no pre-fab marriage for anyone, but it has to be custom-made to fit the needs of the parties involved and it has to grow and change with time and life. I haven't experienced any pressures from other people about getting married, but I'm fairly young, so I guess I don't seem like I "passed the expiration date" yet . Maybe I run in more progressive circles though, but a lot of people I know have unconventional relationships so I can't see myself being pressured. But so what? People will always have an opinion...but largely, the people around me don't seem very focused on if other people are marrying or not, and as I said, even my own grandmothers, NEVER married.

 

Do what you feel is best for you and what you want out of a relationship and life. Not every woman is rushing to be married, contrary to how it's portrayed. Many many are...but many aren't. I don't focus too much on those who are the opposite of what I want and need, but rather focus on those whose goals/ideas about relationships are similar to my own. So that's all you can do. As long as you are HONEST with the people you date and they can choose with their eyes wide open. I think that's what matters.

Edited June 27, 2013 by MissBee

[fortyninethousand322]

This is what I'll never get. Men who want and have traditional marriages, then get butt-hurt about paying the traditional price.

 

It's not skewed. It's what happens when you have a stay at home spouse who's the major caregiver for children and no prenup. It completely disregards the lack of earning potential while staying at home and the amount of energy put into ensuring that the working spouse doesn't need to put as much energy into domestic duties and also completely disregards the emotional well-being of the child/children since divorce can shake up the secure foundation, never mind the potential emotional impact of losing a primary caregiver.

 

If you don't want a traditional marriage, don't have one. Select a partner who's an equal income earner who has no interest in being a stay at home partner, share equal caregiving to children and ensure you have a prenup.

 

I don't know, it all depends. I don't doubt the sincerity of the intent of most divorce laws, rather the application.

 

Not every divorce involves a helpless housewife who passed up career opportunity to raise children and keep up the house. As such, not all marriages should dissolved as if it did.

[youngnlove89]

I can understand wanting to live with someone. I can understand wanting to be with them and having kids with them--what I can't understand is why are we involving the courts? Why do we need a legally binding document that says this is my wife, this is my husband? Why make it that rigid?

 

Seems to me it's much easier to just live with someone and when your love has run it's course, you go your separate ways. Not lose half your stuff in a messy court battle.

 

THIS!! I agree.

 

I used to have that dream of getting married and then having a fantastic honeymoon and running off into the sunset, but that's as far as it went for me. I never thought about what happens AFTER the fun stuff. People, I think, get caught up in the idea of it, the celebration, bringing families together, having this massive ceremony where the bride wears a $10,000 dress and the wedding brings their first problem that they will encounter together as husband/wife: debt. (Plus, I can't believe what some people spend on dresses AND RINGS, how absurd.)

 

What happens after marriage though? Nothing. It's the same as it was before, besides the legal document and the debt you acquired from the ceremony. For some, it starts to get worse after the festivities settle and the wedding becomes a distant memory that only a photo album can bring back. Now there are more expectations, there is that feeling of being tied down, losing your freedom, having to answer to someone...having to be responsible for someone else, having to share things with each other...

 

All that doesn't appeal to me anymore.

 

Love should be your own personal DAILY celebration between you and the other person. Love doesn't need to have a shared signature on a dotted line. Love does not have to be legally binding. A ring on your ring finger doesn't prove anything (if anything it just means you can commit infidelity). You don't need to wear a white dress, a tux or throw a big expensive party to show your in love. With love you don't need to prove anything.

 

Marriage is like religion, you either believe in it or you don't. Everyone in the end will stick to their own personal opinion.

[MrCastle]

What makes you think that splitting up from a long-term live-in situation would be any less messy? If two people have lived together for 8 years, how do they decide who gets to keep the dog? The $800 TV they both chipped in for? The couches? The coffee table that was a gift from a friend? The stand mixer mom got both of you for the holidays? Who gets to keep the house you bought if both your names are on the deed? And if only one of your names is on the deed or the lease, how will the both of you feel about the legal owner having the right to throw your sh-t out on the sidewalk and tell you to gtfo before they call the cops to have you removed?

 

To be clear, I don't think people should be getting married unless they actually want to. I think it's great that more people are deciding for themselves. Marriage is not for everyone. But I still think there are a lot of misconceptions, myths, and straight up fears floating around, and that doesn't do anyone any good, either.

 

Once you lose stuff in a regular break up, it's gone.

 

You're not paying monthly fees.

 

You don't get a letter in the mail every month that reminds you "oh yeah, I owe this woman who's no longer a part of my life $10,000--that's right."

[sweetjasmine]

Not every divorce involves a helpless housewife who passed up career opportunity to raise children and keep up the house. As such, not all marriages should dissolved as if it did.

 

And not all marriages are dissolved that way.

 

If my H and I split, he wouldn't be paying me alimony. No matter how hard I tried to take him to the cleaners. And, actually, I would be taking on some of his educational debt, since he acquired some of it after marriage.

 

Seriously, it's not as if I can waltz into a courtroom, say, "Your Honor, I have a vagina!", and get them to force my husband into 50 years of slave labor to pay for a multimillion dollar house in the Hamptons.

[sweetjasmine]

Once you lose stuff in a regular break up, it's gone.

 

You're not paying monthly fees.

 

You don't get a letter in the mail every month that reminds you "oh yeah, I owe this woman who's no longer a part of my life $10,000--that's right."

 

And you think that every divorce case results in permanent spousal support? Really? And that it's $10,000 every month?

[MrCastle]

And you think that every divorce case results in permanent spousal support? Really? And that it's $10,000 every month?

 

All I'm saying -- regardless of how much it is -- that you should not be penalized financially by the courts because your relationship couldn't work.

 

I don't understand this situation of "our relationship didn't work--time to get a lawyer!"

 

I don't understand why love then turns into money and material things.

 

Leave the court out of it. Losing your spouse should be damaging enough. I don't know why you also have to lose material things you own.

[xxoo]

The legal document makes us legally family. Just like my children's birth certificates make them legally our children.

 

Marriage grants our relation the respect of the state.

[xxoo]

Leave the court out of it. Losing your spouse should be damaging enough. I don't know why you also have to lose material things you own.

 

Because BOTH parties believe they own in, which works fine if you live together, but not nearly as well when you want to live apart and you both want to take it.