Alpha males and beta males, is it real

[Ryan R.]

Hi guys, I'm sorry for making another topic but I have to have this question answered. When I was a junior in college, I started reading about pickup because my friends said it would help me with girls. A lot of my friends were into it and many of them still are. I ditched it because I couldn't make anything stick and I didn't really like being a jerk to girls. One thing that really stuck out to me though is the distinction between alpha and beta males. A lot of the pickup things I read varied in their tactics but one thing that was always emphasized was being alpha and not being a beta.

 

I don't really know how many people believe in alphas and betas. I know it is a very bad thing to be a beta as a man and my friends said its pretty much worse than death when it comes to dating. I'm currently trying to see how I can be better with women without pickup though but one thing that keeps happening is I keep running into alpha and beta. A friend and I got into a fight last week and he called me "a ****ing virgin beta pussy". It really got me deep and I haven't spoken to him since that fight. Another friend of mine likes calling other guys betas and he says he hates betas. Then, another friend of mine says that "betas don't get laid, they only get laughed at".

 

I was wondering, what do people, especially women think about alphas and betas? Do women think and assess if a guy is an alpha or a beta? Do women hate betas? Who are alphas and who are betas? If alphas and betas are real, how can I be an alpha?

[Carenth]

Guys who use the terms Alpha and Beta (especially the ones who consider themselves "Alphas") I tend to find have serious self esteem issues. They put on a fake "tough guy" front to try and pretend they don't have issues but really they do, deep down they are seriously insecure about how people perceive them.

 

The whole concept to me is pretty retarded and the tactics they use will only really work on girls with low self esteem or simply naive to pickup artists in general.

 

That douche bag is not your friend. A friend doesn't treat friends like that. Some girls will care, most will not and probably think you are a tool if you go around calling yourself an Alpha.

 

It really depends what you want. Do you just want to have sex or do you want a relationship with someone? Answers will vary depending on that.

[Suave]

It's really very easy.

 

Alpha males are calm, cool, collected, altogether attractive without making a big deal about it, together and basically a pleasure to be around.

 

Beta males want to be all of these things, try desperately to make others believe that they really are but usually just end up making jackasses of themselves.

[Emilia]

Guys who use the terms Alpha and Beta (especially the ones who consider themselves "Alphas") I tend to find have serious self esteem issues. They put on a fake "tough guy" front to try and pretend they don't have issues but really they do, deep down they are seriously insecure about how people perceive them.

 

The whole concept to me is pretty retarded and the tactics they use will only really work on girls with low self esteem or simply naive to pickup artists in general.

 

That douche bag is not your friend. A friend doesn't treat friends like that. Some girls will care, most will not and probably think you are a tool if you go around calling yourself an Alpha.

 

It really depends what you want. Do you just want to have sex or do you want a relationship with someone? Answers will vary depending on that.

 

I used to think this too and I dislike labelling people, especially into very rigid groups.

 

I do believe however that there are attractive personality traits that bring success: confidence, assertiveness, decisiveness, leadership skills, physical strength, pride, good social skills;

 

and there are unattractive personality traits that prevent success: passive-aggressiveness, low self-esteem, lack of good social skills, conflict avoidance

 

and I think that some men will have a lot of the traits from the first group while many many more will have most traits from the second group.

 

I believe however also that the PUA guys the OP is talking about fall into the second group ('beta') who don't have the skills to naturally make it to the first group therefore they hope they can get away with pretending. The jury is out there on how successful they are.

[therhythm]

My take on this comes very close to what Emilia says... it is all about attitude and not that much about a singular position that someone has been given by right of birth...

 

I always defend I am an individual and as such I hate to be patronized and grouped in a group or another and I firmly believe a person can be an alpha or a beta depending the circumstances around him.

 

PUA is something that only works for attractive guys who would get to pick ladies anyway... many desperate guys go this way and fail terribly and develop a misogyny who will make them even more difficult to ever get a girl...

[Imported]

Your friends sound like a bunch of beta's trying to act alpha.

[therhythm]

 

I don't really know how many people believe in alphas and betas. I know it is a very bad thing to be a beta as a man and my friends said its pretty much worse than death when it comes to dating. I'm currently trying to see how I can be better with women without pickup though but one thing that keeps happening is I keep running into alpha and beta. A friend and I got into a fight last week and he called me "a ****ing virgin beta pussy". It really got me deep and I haven't spoken to him since that fight. Another friend of mine likes calling other guys betas and he says he hates betas. Then, another friend of mine says that "betas don't get laid, they only get laughed at".

 

 

I think that you don't need a definition of Alpha and Beta ... what you need is a new set of friends and not the *******s you have now

[will1988]

Your friends sound like complete and utter ass hats!

 

And if what other commenters have described I am an alpha male through and through (I am a Leo born in the chinese year of the dragon, so if you are in to that sort of stuff, that explains my nature). Yet, I personally find that these labels are BS. I have read up a bit on the subject when a friend of a friend was really in to the stuff and asked me to look in to it. There is not only Alpha and Beta, but Omega's, Deltas, Gammas etc... All of them sound like sterotypes of one demographic or another. Gammas are usually D&D or Gamer nerds, they may also be Omegas....The study even said that homosexuals don't really fall on the list but if they do they are Zetas or Deltas (may be mixing things up a bit since it was a while). I mean in my opinion the people who write that stuff are loosely basing their assumptions on quasi Eugenics theory and slight social Darwinism.... but without putting in enough time or research in to the aforementioned topics that they loosely base their assumptions on. Think, knuckle draggers... same people who'd probably consider themselves to be Alphas.

 

So if by definition pumping iron 24/7, going to the club constantly and bringing home a different woman every night (think Jersey Shore) is your opinion of an Alpha male, than surely I am not. However, as stated, if you believe the opinions of other posters, who are women, than yes, I am by far an alpha male. Yet, I do not believe in this sophmoric and speculative science - fiction- theory. Humans are more than the average animal, which most have some form of the aforementioned handicapped theory. Yet, we as humans have more emotions than all other animals, and there for make our own social construct out of life.

 

Long answer short made short; anyone who trully believes in this theory is most likely someone who has major self worth issues and is trying to justify their existance by placing labels on to others and through bullying... and then saying it science, psudo science is more liek it. So don't buy in to your idiotic friends' theory, there is no actual scientific proof that what they are saying is factual. Also, the fact that they have to put a label on you and call you a pu$$y means they are some pretty schidty friends. Me thinks it is time for you to get new friends, and be the person you want to be, be an individual, and not try to jam yourself in to some idiotic social construct.

[Got it]

I think you just need a new group of friends. They sound like douches. Where do douches fall into the alpha/beta discussion?

[baRx]

Guys who use the terms Alpha and Beta (especially the ones who consider themselves "Alphas") I tend to find have serious self esteem issues. They put on a fake "tough guy" front to try and pretend they don't have issues but really they do, deep down they are seriously insecure about how people perceive them.

 

The whole concept to me is pretty retarded and the tactics they use will only really work on girls with low self esteem or simply naive to pickup artists in general.

 

That douche bag is not your friend. A friend doesn't treat friends like that. Some girls will care, most will not and probably think you are a tool if you go around calling yourself an Alpha.

 

It really depends what you want. Do you just want to have sex or do you want a relationship with someone? Answers will vary depending on that.

 

i actually agree with this, 100%. guys that have that 'alpha/beta' mindset are huge toolbags and really only end up with disappointment in the end.

 

it's simple: guys with confidence will have it much easier than guys who think low of themselves.

that's the key to life, not just woman/relationships. learn that and you'll be fine.

 

ever notice that these idiots who consider themselves "alpha PUA" types never actually have long-term relationships? they just sleep with easy trashy girls and nothing ever comes out of it.

[MrCastle]

I don't know if you want to give them labels, I mean you can--but the basis of the theory is there are a particular set of traits that the majority of women find attractive. Those things are talked about often on here. Confidence, back bone, leadership qualities, etc.

 

If your thing is quantity over quality, you very much so can use those traits to land women in large numbers.

 

I don't totally believe in this "only works on low self esteem women" bit. I think it works on all different kinds of women. I think the women who know you're a douchebag player and sleep with you anyway are low self esteem--but the ones who honestly don't know, you can't just automatically call them low self esteem or trashy.

 

I doubt there is one woman on this site who has never fallen for the bad boy player type.

 

Eventually, they learn to weed them out, but just like unsuccessful men start off being friend zoned before they start to realize what they're doing wrong, some women end up with the wrong men when they don't know any better.

 

Men that consider themselves pick up artists exploit this fact and go after women that are not hip to their act yet.

 

I think men that are unsuccessful would rather be the guy that the girl regrets sleeping with as opposed to the trustworthy best friend she can cry to.

 

While it's not ideal, nor totally accurate to believe in the alpha/beta theory--I can see why men who have dating woes would try to emulate the so called alpha. There are specific traits the majority of women are going to find attractive. When you realize what they are, you can choose to exploit it, or use your powers for good.

[footballfan10]

For me an "Alpha" male is confident, passionate, secure, assertive, independent, decisive, and self-aware. He neither avoids conflict nor actively seeks it out. He does not fear women nor place them on an unattainable pedestal. He understands his place in the world or the importance of finding it. He is not desperate for attention, validation or companionship. Not because he doesn't enjoy that (from time to time), but because he is secure enough within himself not to desperately need those things.

 

NOTE 1: A true alpha male IS NOT boisterous, loud, jealous or obnoxious -- as I said, he is secure within himself and doesn't need to be. He does not have to be in peak physical condition, rich or extremely extroverted.

 

NOTE 2: An alpha enjoys female companionship but does not seek to "win" or "buy" women's affection, adoration or love. He is not shy about approaching women (but does not harrass them) and makes it clear what he desires. He may fear rejection like all other human beings but does not allow that fear to overpower his will.

 

 

Meanwhile a "Beta" is insecure, clingy, shy, passive, malleable, rarely voices his opinion and avoids confrontation at all costs. Even to his own detriment. He may either revere or hate women to extreme or unreasonable degrees. A beta male may be overly emotionally expressive, hypersensitive, unnecessarily combative or argumentative.

 

NOTE 1: Many betas consider themselves just nice guys. Some of them consider themselves "sensitive" and often try to appeal to a woman's more emotional nature. Rather than asking a woman out directly, the beta male will dance around the subject or try insinuate himself in her life as just a friend.

 

NOTE 2: Not all betas are the proverbial "nice guy" and some are aggressive (a trait often wrongly attributed solely to alphas) or even violent -- especially towards those they consider to be 'weaker' than themselves in an attempt to emulate their idea of an 'alpha'.

 

NOTE 3: Despite what people say, there are many women who find beta males attractive. Women who enjoy unyielding devotion, copious amounts of attention, do not like to be argued with or challenged find such men quite suitable to their needs.

 

Thats simply your opinion and not factually based in any way (neither is mine)

 

I think loud ultra aggressive guys are very alpha and even if they are really insecure and over compensating as long as they can back up their behavior they are alpha to me....Beating the hell out of someone is very alpha imo even if it was totally uncalled for. Inner city Blacks are very Alpha imo but based on your descriptions they would be very beta since they are always reacting with violence to any little tiny thing that annoys them in even then slightest way.

 

But I do think most girls would prefer the Alpha that you described (confident secure but not overly aggressive unless there is a reason for it) compared to the "I'll knock your teeth out if you look at me the wrong way" type of alpha.

Edited June 27, 2013 by footballfan10

[footballfan10]

I think you just need a new group of friends. They sound like douches. Where do douches fall into the alpha/beta discussion?

 

Very Alpha but not necessarily in a good way.

 

I also think a decent amount of misygnony is very alpha to (bite me feminists haha)....Just go observe a bunch of Duke fratboys and you will know what I am talking about...They have almost no respect for women at all and get laid like hell cause they are very alpha.

[Adele0908]

If a man puts down other men, laughs as them, and calls them beta, he not alpha!

 

Alpha men don't gossip, talk down to people, or insult people. They don't lie to women and use PUA techniques to get women. I don't know if these terms are accurate to describe people. But to me an alpha means a High quality man. High quality men tend to only deal with high quality women. Alpha men actually respect women and don't have any misogynistic tendencies. Betas are the ones who finally get laid by a hot woman and then run and tell their boys. They do that because they use external things to feel good about themselves. They need other people's approval, so when a woman actually is generous enough to sleep with them, they run and tell everybody. They have such low self esteem that any woman who would willingly sleep with them without making it a huge deal is labeled a HO.

 

They can't believe that a decent woman would have sex with them, so they assume she must be hoe. Betas are the ones who made up the terms hoe and slut and they are the ones that use that bull****.

 

Alpha men don't use those terms and respect women and never judge women. Which is why they get more sex. Women feel comfortable with a man who wont judge them for having sex "too soon".

 

To me it has nothing to do with looks and everything to do with attitude.

 

An alpha to me is a confident man who accepts himself and accepts others as they are. Alphas don't run and tell their friends when they get laid, because they have nothing to prove. Alpha women are the same. Confident. Alphas are confident because they don't blame others for their mistakes and failures. They take responsibility and move on. Learn the lessons and grow. I don't know if the terms are "real", but there is a difference between a person who needs approval and a person who does not.

[will1988]

Thats simply your opinion and not factually based in any way (neither is mine)

 

I think loud ultra aggressive guys are very alpha and even if they are really insecure and over compensating as long as they can back up their behavior they are alpha to me....Beating the hell out of someone is very alpha imo even if it was totally uncalled for. Inner city Blacks are very Alpha imo but based on your descriptions they would be very beta since they are always reacting with violence to any little tiny thing that annoys them in even then slightest way.

 

But I do think most girls would prefer the Alpha that you described (confident secure but not overly aggressive unless there is a reason for it) compared to the "I'll knock your teeth out if you look at me the wrong way" type of alpha.

 

See I have to disagree... alphas may be violent, loud, get laid a lot etc... to some people. However, in nature an Alpha lion, wolf whatever... is the leader of its pact. It is the king, the dictator, the president etc... The alpha knows when to put a lesser being in its place when it is acting up, but it also knows that it needs to provide for those same creatures. The alpha in nature is a noble sort. The alpha in human nature that you have described, to most, would be considered nothing more than a thug... who only has real power and real domain over their little corner of the ghetto. A real Alpha are captains of industry, the elite of society, the people who rule and run the world. If we are going off of the equivalents in nature as comparable to human society. I choose not to make said argument, because it encroaches on some very touchy subjects. So, sure the thug may be alpha in one sense, but he is not a true alpha... trust me. I've know people with real power versus people like you described and there is no comparison.

[GorillaTheater]

It probably all depends on your definitions of "alpha" and "beta". Emilia pointed out the positive alpha traits: confidence, assertiveness, decisiveness, leadership skills, physical strength, pride, good social skills. But there are positive beta traits as well, the kind that make a man a good husband and father, like empathy, nurturing, and the willingness to, to a reasonable extent, work for the greater good and not just for yourself.

 

My opinion is that a man needs a good balance of both to be successful in relationships and life. The trick, as always, is finding a balance that works.

 

And yeah, guys that refer to themselves as "alpha" rarely are.

[ThaWholigan]

Yeah. Beta often is used as the negative foil of the Alpha, but Betas have their positives. We can't all be Alphas - some of us have to play our position. Where do I fall on the scale? Not sure......all I know is that the Alpha/Beta thing is played out. A lot of us have varying traits of both.

 

The trick to me is finding a balance that works for you. The balance will be subjective in general so it has to be right to you. I'm still trying to find mine, I get closer. I imagine many others are trying to find theirs.

 

The guys who refer to themselves as Alpha have a very skewed idea of the concept in the first place. Old school PUA material.....

Edited May 19, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[GorillaTheater]

The good news is that, as far as I can see, something like 75% of guys have a reasonable mix of both traits anyways. I do see a tendency among men who have been married for a while to not pay enough attention to attractiveness (what I'll call alpha, but YMMV) and to slide more towards the beta end of things, including the negative beta traits. I saw it happening to me before I caught it and readjusted, and I see it in many other men who are more-or-less my age as well.

 

It's a never-ending process/assessment.

[Ryan R.]

This is a good discussion, thanks for the replies. I still find it interesting how there is a slight split between what women consider alpha and what men consider alpha. It seems that men prefer a harder-edged version of alpha and women prefer a softer version of alpha. Which I guess can be expected. Beta behavior is pretty much generally decided upon as being insecure and needy through the gender divide.

 

I also disagree with one guy who said that alphas are frat boys that get laid quite frequently. I do not believe that they are alphas, rather they are compensating for latent insecurity with (supposed) sexual prowess. I unfortunately know too many guys who say they get laid but they are actually very, very, very small men inside that would crumble at the first sign of trouble. I don't think there's such a thing as a virgin alpha male so that effectively puts me out of the running for that (haha) but as I said before, I don't think I'm a beta male. Going by what was posted here, of course.

 

I was called a beta male a couple weeks ago by this one guy I knew because I bought my female friend a drink at the bar on her birthday. He said it was a "beta" thing to do. Oh well. That other friend who called me a beta, I haven't spoken to him since and I'm not going to be the first to break the silence. If he felt so good to call me a beta, then its quite clear that he doesn't need me in his life. I don't tolerate disrespect.

 

I notice many guys who call themselves alpha turn very beta around girls, especially attractive girls. I've never really had this problem as I have a lot of female friends but I suppose when you don't really interact with girls on a regular basis, its quite easy to turn to jelly when you talk to one. That's what happened to me freshman year of college but by the end of the year I was able to adjust and make a lot of friends.

[hppr]

Your friends sound like a bunch of beta's trying to act alpha.

 

More like a bunch of nice-guys trying desperately to act badass to get laid. Sounds like pathetic high school antics.

[Carenth]

I do not believe that they are alphas, rather they are compensating for latent insecurity with (supposed) sexual prowess. I unfortunately know too many guys who say they get laid but they are actually very, very, very small men inside that would crumble at the first sign of trouble.

 

This is what you need to focus on. Guys who self identify as Alphas are seriously overcompensating for something. I've had friends who got very much into the PUA Alpha, Beta bull**** and when I say friends they are no longer my friends because I couldn't tolerate the way they ending up treating women. They where using me as a way to meet new women, so I shut them out of my life. Women who I respect and care about.

 

Once again your friends are not friends. They are immature children. Underneath their thin layer of veneer they have created aka their frame. They are generally broken men. Low self esteem, self-deprecating and often full of hate and bile towards women for whatever reason.

 

The sad thing is this thin frame becomes who they are, take that away from them and they crumble into timid creatures. PUA teaches them strategies to try and appear more confident and appealing however it doesn't solve the underlying issues, the source of the problem it's a band aid fix at best. Lose the pseudo science terms. Focus on yourself to better yourself for yourself. Don't become a husk of a person.

 

Every single one of these former friends has ended up in a string of short live relationships because they don't know how to form a relationship after they have bedded a women. They have been kicked out of many social circles because of their abhorrent behavior. Many of them ended up moving cities just to try and get away from their past.

 

I had one of these former friends contact me earlier this year trying to apologise for his past behavior. The damage was done though and their is no way I can see him as a friend again.

Edited June 27, 2013 by Carenth

[MissBee]

Hi guys, I'm sorry for making another topic but I have to have this question answered. When I was a junior in college, I started reading about pickup because my friends said it would help me with girls. A lot of my friends were into it and many of them still are. I ditched it because I couldn't make anything stick and I didn't really like being a jerk to girls. One thing that really stuck out to me though is the distinction between alpha and beta males. A lot of the pickup things I read varied in their tactics but one thing that was always emphasized was being alpha and not being a beta.

 

I don't really know how many people believe in alphas and betas. I know it is a very bad thing to be a beta as a man and my friends said its pretty much worse than death when it comes to dating. I'm currently trying to see how I can be better with women without pickup though but one thing that keeps happening is I keep running into alpha and beta. A friend and I got into a fight last week and he called me "a ****ing virgin beta pussy". It really got me deep and I haven't spoken to him since that fight. Another friend of mine likes calling other guys betas and he says he hates betas. Then, another friend of mine says that "betas don't get laid, they only get laughed at".

 

I was wondering, what do people, especially women think about alphas and betas? Do women think and assess if a guy is an alpha or a beta? Do women hate betas? Who are alphas and who are betas? If alphas and betas are real, how can I be an alpha?

 

All of this reminds me of Teen Wolf the show...sorry . I love that show . But it's only on the fictional show Teen Wolf, do I hear talk about the alpha and betas.

 

I don't know if I'll be much help, as honestly, I have never heard any guys in real life talk about alpha/beta/pickup etc. I don't think any of the guys I know or have dated used these techniques. I don't go around thinking about alpha and beta.

 

I like a stronger masculine energy in a man, but not one who is macho. I like guys who are more reserved, who have a quiet, strength. I do not like guys who are jerks, I like gentlemen. I like a man to be decisive and assertive. I like men who communicate their feelings and more importantly, I like men who have their own minds and who don't have that pack mentality where everything is about what their friends think...I haaaaaaaaaaaate that! The alpha beta nonsense seems to have a lot to do with that pack mentality.

 

In any case...have you had any girls like you before?

[hppr]

I bet if most of you guys/gals looked at the people who claim 'Alpha' status objectively you'd find they're just douchebags who lie to get laid. That is how all the guys I've known who either labeled themselves that (or were labeled that way by women) were.

 

Met lots of those guys when I was doing things I probably shouldn't have. Most of them were self-centered gym rats working dead-end jobs for 10-15$ an hour, living at other peoples' houses etc. Hit up the clubs, fake it to make it sort of thing.

 

The guys I've known that I'd call 'Alpha' males - and I've known congressmen, mayors, heads of companies - most weren't tall handsome guys and as far as I could tell none of them had super hot wives or were bedding "HBs". Intelligent and ambitious but Hugh Hefner they were not.

 

edit: I've had guys at work saying I'm 'Alpha' now. All I do is work out more and dress better. Pfft.

 

I've come to the conclusion that men and women who talk about 'Alpha' and 'Beta' males generally don't have much concept of what makes a man good or bad, or what good character really is.

[hppr]

Very Alpha but not necessarily in a good way.

 

I also think a decent amount of misygnony is very alpha to (bite me feminists haha)....Just go observe a bunch of Duke fratboys and you will know what I am talking about...They have almost no respect for women at all and get laid like hell cause they are very alpha.

 

Throwing your weight around only works for so long though.

 

What I found is that the more negative I got, the more pussy I got...but it was with an increasingly smaller and smaller sect of the market. There are women out there who seek out that stuff like mad. They can't get enough of it and they never learn. That's the 'meat market' for guys like Duke fratboys.

[MrCastle]

i like a stronger masculine energy in a man, but not one who is macho. I like guys who are more reserved, who have a quiet, strength. I do not like guys who are jerks, i like gentlemen. I like a man to be decisive and assertive. I like men who communicate their feelings and more importantly, i like men who have their own minds and who don't have that pack mentality where everything is about what their friends think...i haaaaaaaaaaaate that! The alpha beta nonsense seems to have a lot to do with that pack mentality.

 

 

:) :)

Edited May 19, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator