Is it ME? Or is there more too this?

[Realist3]

This is my assessment and it may be a little harsh.

 

But every few years it comes back up and bothers me – A Lot.

 

There is more to the story that makes it even more wierd.

 

 

You typed a whole lot of words and these two were the only ones that stood out to me.

 

You have been with this woman for 30 years and you are obsessed with one night, or possibly two months? WTF is wrong with you?

 

At one point you even said that if she had admitted to an affair complete with sex you would be okay with it, but you would want to know why. Why? What difference does it make? WHAT EFFING DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE? She is with you.

 

In the title of the thread you asked "Is it ME?" Yes it is you. What makes the story weird is that you are still focused on it.

 

 

 

I don't know if what you have is a disorder or a condition, but is not healthy in any way. You need to seek some professional help in dealing with this.

 

I'm not trying to insult you, but you do have a problem and it isn't whether your wife cheated on you or not.

Edited June 26, 2013 by Realist3

[2sunny]

Is there a great reason to punish your wife NOW - when you weren't willing to get to the bottom of it all those years ago?

 

Did she plan to party? Screw someone else? Stay out all night?

 

Maybe... Only she knows - and she's not telling.

 

I don't buy her story at all. I'd bet money she went to a guys house and stayed all night thinking you'd be sleeping. She CHANGED CLOTHES... She shunned you when you showed up!

 

Does knowing change anything now? What would you do if you found out she did coke all night and screwed his brains out?

 

Probably nothing!

 

Why punish her now?

[Jonah]

She probably did do the coke.

[JustAReformedGirl]

Is there a great reason to punish your wife NOW - when you weren't willing to get to the bottom of it all those years ago?

 

Did she plan to party? Screw someone else? Stay out all night?

 

Maybe... Only she knows - and she's not telling.

 

I don't buy her story at all. I'd bet money she went to a guys house and stayed all night thinking you'd be sleeping. She CHANGED CLOTHES... She shunned you when you showed up!

 

Does knowing change anything now? What would you do if you found out she did coke all night and screwed his brains out?

 

Probably nothing!

 

Why punish her now?

 

^ I agree with this. You've already said that you have come to terms with what may or may not have occurred, and that it wouldn't impact your relationship with her, now.

 

So, why bring forth more information on the matter? OP, it's time to put it to rest. Whatever happened, the time to be certain of what it was has come, and long since gone.

 

Focus on the here and now with her. I know it's tough to move passed certain events, but I really don't see any other options, here. Even with a polygraph being done now, what would it really accomplish? Would you divorce her now, after all of these years, if the evidence was incontrovertible? Somehow, I don't think you would.

 

Things have changed. People change. I hope you can come to peace with all of this, and I wish you the best.

[Confused48]

Be prepared to feel just as unsatisfied after a poly than as before. Here is why.

 

1) The poly may say she is telling the truth and you may still doubt that.

 

2) The poly is limited to one, or maybe at most, two yes/no question per hour and one hour per day. So what if she says she had sex with OM? Then you are going to want to know, was it good? How many times? What positions? Did he use protection? Does she still think of him? Did she do it with anyone else? And on and on.

 

You see where I'm going with this? Unless you have a pretty unlimited budget and time to spend on this you are not going to get to a point where you have all the answers you want.

[drifter777]

Be prepared to feel just as unsatisfied after a poly than as before. Here is why.

 

1) The poly may say she is telling the truth and you may still doubt that.

 

2) The poly is limited to one, or maybe at most, two yes/no question per hour and one hour per day. So what if she says she had sex with OM? Then you are going to want to know, was it good? How many times? What positions? Did he use protection? Does she still think of him? Did she do it with anyone else? And on and on.

 

You see where I'm going with this? Unless you have a pretty unlimited budget and time to spend on this you are not going to get to a point where you have all the answers you want.

 

You ask one question: did you have sex with him? Once this is established you can get answers to the other questions.

[BetrayedH]

You ask one question: did you have sex with him? Once this is established you can get answers to the other questions.

 

And don't forget the all-too-typical passenger seat confession. The OP will get more truth from this than he will have had in 30 years. Most importantly, he needs to know if she's been lying and what she intends to do about it.

[Confused48]

You ask one question: did you have sex with him? Once this is established you can get answers to the other questions.

 

And don't forget the all-too-typical passenger seat confession. The OP will get more truth from this than he will have had in 30 years. Most importantly, he needs to know if she's been lying and what she intends to do about it.

 

I'm not telling the OP not to do it. He should. Get the answers to the few questions that you can OP. But once they are answered, don't be surprised if there are 100 more questions that seem just as important that you will never get to ask much less know that the answer is truthful. The dissatisfaction and doubt will still be there. But at least you will have one or two big answers. For what they are worth.

 

Just getting the most answers that you can is an end in itself. At least then you know there is no point in continuing to ask or wonder. Some level of peace will come from that.

[jnj express]

You know at best she spent the night with her for lack of a better word, lover, having coke---at worst she had sex all night with him

 

Change of clothes, she doesn't want you smelling what she was in, and maybe there were stains all over the clothes she wore

 

The time for you to make an issue, and follow it thru was when it happened, or w/in a reasonable time thereafter----you have not done that, and you have let it go-----You were strong enuff about what went on, to probably scare her straight, in the fact, that she wasn't gonna lose her family/mge over a cocktail waitress job---same for her lover-------It was probably sex to her, and nothing more---otherwise, the lover would have tried to stay in contact------or-----she did a real good job going deep underground, and kept the A. going until it wound down on its own----obviously as to any later A---you will never know.

 

This is your sub--conscious digging away at you---and since you really do not know the actual facts, and you surmise she is lying---your imagination still digs in on you---you can't get rid of your sub--conscious, so this will probably bother you off and on, for the rest of your life---but since you did nothing about it---you need to let it go as far as she is concerned---bottom line---just suffer in silence----you will have misery from this---but you missed your chance long ago---so suck it up, and live with it

[Darth Vader]

You know at best she spent the night with her for lack of a better word, lover, having coke---at worst she had sex all night with him

 

Change of clothes, she doesn't want you smelling what she was in, and maybe there were stains all over the clothes she wore

 

The time for you to make an issue, and follow it thru was when it happened, or w/in a reasonable time thereafter----you have not done that, and you have let it go-----You were strong enuff about what went on, to probably scare her straight, in the fact, that she wasn't gonna lose her family/mge over a cocktail waitress job---same for her lover-------It was probably sex to her, and nothing more---otherwise, the lover would have tried to stay in contact------or-----she did a real good job going deep underground, and kept the A. going until it wound down on its own----obviously as to any later A---you will never know.

 

This is your sub--conscious digging away at you---and since you really do not know the actual facts, and you surmise she is lying---your imagination still digs in on you---you can't get rid of your sub--conscious, so this will probably bother you off and on, for the rest of your life---but since you did nothing about it---you need to let it go as far as she is concerned---bottom line---just suffer in silence----you will have misery from this---but you missed your chance long ago---so suck it up, and live with it

 

Better yet, the kids are grown and gone, just drop her ass! Yeah, she probably did the coke and did the OM too! So, drop her lying ass and be done with her! When she asks why, well, you can tell her, I know you screwed someone else back in 1981 and it's apparent you are never going to be truthful about it, so, I'm done with you! My point is, DROP HER CHEATING ASS!

[2sunny]

I don't for one minute think their evening was spent in the car.

 

She must think you are stupid.

 

And believe me, she remembers it all!

[Just a Guy]

Hi Zoro, For what it's worth I agree with Darth Vader. Go for a divorce since it seems that this affair is like a festering wound in your mind. There may even be maggots in it. The very fact that your sub conscious keeps bringing it up shows that there is a deep seated resentment(The maggots I mentioned)in your mind and the only way to get rid of them and get closure is to go the divorce way. Your wife will know why. Best wishes.

[BetrayedH]

You know at best she spent the night with her for lack of a better word, lover, having coke---at worst she had sex all night with him

 

Change of clothes, she doesn't want you smelling what she was in, and maybe there were stains all over the clothes she wore

 

The time for you to make an issue, and follow it thru was when it happened, or w/in a reasonable time thereafter----you have not done that, and you have let it go-----You were strong enuff about what went on, to probably scare her straight, in the fact, that she wasn't gonna lose her family/mge over a cocktail waitress job---same for her lover-------It was probably sex to her, and nothing more---otherwise, the lover would have tried to stay in contact------or-----she did a real good job going deep underground, and kept the A. going until it wound down on its own----obviously as to any later A---you will never know.

 

This is your sub--conscious digging away at you---and since you really do not know the actual facts, and you surmise she is lying---your imagination still digs in on you---you can't get rid of your sub--conscious, so this will probably bother you off and on, for the rest of your life---but since you did nothing about it---you need to let it go as far as she is concerned---bottom line---just suffer in silence----you will have misery from this---but you missed your chance long ago---so suck it up, and live with it

 

I don't follow the logic here. He didn't do anything about it then so he can't do anything about it now? Why is that? She's lied to him repeatedly over the years about it in order to deceive him. Is there a statute of limitations that if she successfully lies for a certain number of years then she isn't accountable anymore? How many is it? You even acknowledge that he's going to continue to agonize over it but suddenly you leap to saying that he just has to suck it up. How do you arrive at that conclusion?

 

Fundamentally I would argue that the problem is that she is lying to him about it today. The statute of limitations hasn't been passed for that. But if he wants to stay married to a woman that is actively lying to his face about cheating, that's his choice. Seems like a miserable existence to me and one that can be resolved.

[JustAReformedGirl]

BetrayedH: While I certainly follow your logic, I think the reason that the OP stays with her after all these years is because he believes/knows she isn't the same person she was before. Okay granted, she probably is still lying to him, but he may feel that it's time to let go-even if some part of him deeply craves closure. I think the other reason the OP doesn't want to divorce (aside from so many years of marriage) may have something to do with his wife being ill. In that case, it really is a tough call.

 

Whatever his choice, hopefully he can find some peace on the matter.

[2sunny]

It's impossible to have peace when the truth isn't offered.

[Zoro54]

Hello all, sorry it has been a few days but I have been busy dealing with ‘other issues’ – like shoveling out my wife’s favorite ‘storage area’ and my ‘work area’ – the Garage.

 

At any rate I would like to personally thank everyone for all their contributions. The ‘polygraph’ is a new idea but my wife has volunteered many times to undergo ‘hypnosis’. And we did try counseling a few years ago, the result of which we both agreed was a waste of time.

 

Although ‘tidbits’ of her story have changed throughout the years the bottom line has always remained the same – she had no ‘romantic interest’ in him (she says he’s just not ‘her type’) and ‘nothing happened.’ She does admit that on NYE she was acting like a ‘single woman’ again and probably being way more ‘flirtatious’ than she should have and far more than I would be comfortable with – and, although it was ‘fun’ then, she is very sorry for it now. I have no problem with this and I can understand how one’s environment (a big party with music, dancing, and drunk people all over the place) can, and often does, change how they act. But she insists she wasn’t ‘flirting’ with him – she ‘flirted’ with a lot of ‘tables of guys’ – but not him. Cocktail waitresses do this – being vivacious, friendly, and a bit of harmless flirting put more tips in the till.

 

Everytime there is an ‘episode’ of this and I ask questions 90% of the questions get the same answer: “I don’t know, I can’t remember.” I have always been perplexed by this. How could she not know? She was THERE!

 

A few years ago we discussed this again. Then it dawned on me – doing the same thing the same way and expecting different results is NUTS!! And this is precisely what we had been doing. So I came up with a completely different approach. This approach was intended to help her remember all these things she ‘doesn’t’ know” and “can’t remember”. The idea was to reenact the time period in the car.

 

So we use my old 95 Grand Marquis (it’s bigger, roomier, and has a front bench seat like her old ’50 Ford 4 door was). I put together something that would, as close a possible, resemble her description of the ‘coke kit’ (I used sugar in place of ‘coke’ and no, nobody snorted sugar or anything else). Still, you need to break down that sub-conscious protection barrier I am convinced hinders all of these past ‘episodes’. So we give her about 4 drinks of Brandy and Coke (a-cola) – and a .5mg tab of xanax.

 

What happened was something I never thought of, and she ended up having a pretty bad ‘panic attack’ – obviously the ‘experiment’ was immediately cut short.

 

But what came out was a whole ‘nuther ending. And this ending filled in all the pieces of the puzzle.

 

She watched as he poured that last of the coke from the vile to the mirror, cut it up, and handed it to her. She knew this was the last of the coke. Just a little while after doing the last line he mentions how expensive this stuff is and she states she had no idea of the cost (and this I know to be true). She the wallet out of her purse and asks how much she owes him. He scoots over next to her and says something to the effect that “there is more than one way to pay for it, and he’s not interested in her money.” He then begins to come towards her with an outstretched hand saying something like “lets start up front” with his have approaching her breast.

 

A struggle happens and she someone is pulled down onto the seat with her right arm trapped. As he tries to climb on top of her she brings her leg/foot up HARD and the foot lands right in the crotch with the knee ending up in the ‘bread basket’ (we actually re-enact this and it is VERY possible). This stops the struggle and he sits down holding his crotch and begins a very bad verbal argument with very vicious words spoken. She screams at him to get out – and he does – with even more hurtful words spoken.

 

Once the door is closed she drives to a close by open restraint and parks under a street light – and watches his car pull out of the parking lot and disappear into the night.

 

She doesn’t recall how long she is there but she decides not to call the police as she is convinced they would just blame her – and I would have to find out all about everything and I would blame her. I would probably go beat the guy to death and go to jail – and she doesn’t’ want that. SHE blames herself for the whole episode.

 

Suddenly it all makes perfect sense. Everything about this fits – everything. And I am SOOO sorry for putting her through all this. She is protecting herself – from people (like me) thinking “how could you be so stupid as to put yourself in a position like that?” but she is also protecting me – fearing I’d go kill the guy (and she is pretty ‘spot-on’ on this).

 

But then, for some reason, about a month later she completely recants this account of the evening. She says she doesn’t even know where the heck it came from – but it isn’t true.

 

This alternated ‘ending’ to the evening make sense from what we know of how memory works. When we have fun and pleasant experiences we tend to remember them, and we have no problem talking about them. But things like this the sub-conscious jumps into ‘protective mode’, grabs the ‘memory’ and locks it up. This would explain everything, literally everything. But she says it didn’t happen.

 

I have put all this into this forum because I really have nobody else I can talk with about it. Could I be making more out of something than really happened? I really don’t think I am. If, at any time in the past, I felt I knew pretty much everything that went on that night and in the preceeding weeks I would have dropped it long ago. But I have never felt that way until I get this alternate ending. An ending that seemed very, very real to her then and she ‘recalled’ a lot more detail than I would have expected then. But then, suddenly, she recants it a month later.

 

In the past she has stated clearly that “at no time did I think I was doing anything ‘wrong’ or anything that would upset you. If I had thought for one second it would upset you I would have just come home. I didn’t see anything wrong with just sitting and having a nice conversation with someone.”

 

But then recently it changes to, on her way home, realizing she shouldn’t have stayed out so late, all she could think of was how she needed to get home?

 

And the change of clothing changes to actually wearing ‘regular clothes’ to work and changing into her uniform at work, of which she changes back into her regular clothing at the end of the evening.

[Bryanp]

This is just too weird. Have her take a poly.

[Darth Vader]

This is just too weird. Have her take a poly.

 

 

Tell me about it!

 

I'm waiting for the part where she requests a Vulcan Mind Meld! LOL!

 

I dunno, something about all of this sounds very off!

[BetrayedH]

Mularkey. I couldn't be more convinced that you need a poly.

 

Rebel Dynasty, I hear you. I just think he needs the truth so that they can THEN work on putting it behind them. I'm not on the divorce bandwagon but I tend to agree with Sunny that healing can't really take place with this lie between them. She needs to own it so he can find some peace.

 

Otherwise, if I had a nickle for everytime we've heard "It was just flirting" or "we just held hands" or "we just made out" or "it was just once," I'd be damn wealthy. And the line about him not being her type - yeah, my exwife used the exact same line. Typical lying, denying, minimizing, and gaslighting. I'm sure the attempted rape story would be the perfect way to make you feel better but even she couldn't keep up with that story.

[JustAReformedGirl]

Mularkey. I couldn't be more convinced that you need a poly.

 

Rebel Dynasty, I hear you. I just think he needs the truth so that they can THEN work on putting it behind them. I'm not on the divorce bandwagon but I tend to agree with Sunny that healing can't really take place with this lie between them. She needs to own it so he can find some peace.

 

Otherwise, if I had a nickle for everytime we've heard "It was just flirting" or "we just held hands" or "we just made out" or "it was just once," I'd be damn wealthy. And the line about him not being her type - yeah, my exwife used the exact same line. Typical lying, denying, minimizing, and gaslighting. I'm sure the attempted rape story would be the perfect way to make you feel better but even she couldn't keep up with that story.

 

This is true. I also have serious doubts about the story she fed him, while they re-enacted the event. It really does seem to be her way of trying to put an end to this, once and for all. I wouldn't believe it, either. However, the OP will have to figure out for himself where he wants to go from here.

[2sunny]

I still don't think you have a correct version of what went on.

 

Do you know how hard it is to do coke in a car? I'd bet they were at his house.

 

And she didn't appear shaken when she came home (by your original description).

 

She intended to party and even shunned you at her work. Then she went MIA partying until almost morning and showing up in other clothes...

 

That spells well thought out and planned fun time to me.

 

She can portray her time as the victim - but I'm not buying it.

 

Now she keeps changing her story - that only means she's lying more NOW.

 

I'm old - and I remember fun, party times doing inappropriate things from 30 -35 years ago - even when I was wasted...you don't forget the fun stuff = it stays in the memory forever.

 

She wants you to believe her lies - and that's your choice.

 

You can move forward or you can keep digging a bigger hole that she never intends to fill.

 

One thing is for sure - she's not willing to hand you your peace of mind by being completely honest.

[aliveagain]

One thing I know about New Years Eve, if you live anywhere besides Florida or California is it gets cold. Sitting in a car doing coke for 5 hours requires you to have your car running all the time just to get heat or your windows will be a frozen frosted cake of ice(caused from breathing condensation). A 50's Ford idling for 5 hours in a parking lot, could happen I guess, but most 31 year old cars would not idle for 5 hours unless they were mechanically tuned to perfection. The carbon emission clouds a 50's Ford makes would be obvious to everyone near the parking lot including patrol cars that drive around club locations looking for just such things. She must of had a full tank of gas too. They wouldn't sit in a car without heat for 5 hours, it would be too uncomfortable. You reenacted the scenario but you didn't consider the outside temperature on the night of her birthday. You can look up the weather conditions, for New York City on Dec.31, 1981 it was 30 degrees F, that's approximately -2 below zero C for us Canadian's. You couldn't sit in a car that long without heat. What does she say about heat, did she idle her car for 5 hours?

[Zoro54]

Thank you all for your input, you time and effort are really appreciated. I've have always wondered if this story were told to people that do not know either of us - how many would believe it? Women's input are especially of interest as they tend to have had different experiences in their lives and think differetly. Who knows - I might even find a female that has been a married woman when they got their first Cocktail Waitress job and remember 'things' about it. What's normal, whats not.

 

Reading all these posts I now have a pretty good idea that most would not believe either her original story or the attempted rape story (which I tended to believe).

 

I fully believe her story of just sitting an talking and doing a few lines of coke is possible. But when you factor in it is her birthday and the guy is single and 22 years old I start getting the picture he is out for more than just 'talk'. Factor in that HE never does any of the coke, either 'down on the corner' (he only 'excorts' her down there) or in the car - it gets more suspicous. Then the lying about being at work all night when she comes home late kind of puts the icing on the perverbial cake.

 

I'll write more a little later.

[Zoro54]

AliveAgain - the location was in the costal region of California. The temp that night had been about 43 degrees and it had rained a slight amount. She initially 'warmed up' the car. Her initial thought was this was going to be a 10 minute or so ordeal. However, after the OM had been in the car only a few minutes she gets the 'feeling' that "this is really nice" and decided to "stay awhile" - and turns the car off.

 

She has never been able to account for what, exactly, it was that made her think "this is really nice" and turn the car off. Which I have alway found hard to believe because it is the single event (in my mind) that kicks the night off.

 

She does say that she had to re-start the car a few times to warm it up (the cabin).

 

In addition to this 3 hour talk-a-thon she also smokes a few cigarettes and, of course, does 3 - 4 lines of Cocaine. The talking and the smoking will dry out your mucouse membranes and Cocaine will make you thirsty -- but neither of them ever have a drop to drink. He drank a few beers at the bar but neither of them ever have the urge to go to the bathroom.

 

He also never does any of the Cocaine himself. Not on the trips to the corner nor in the car.

 

Did I tell you all this has been a bizzare roller coaster for me?

 

The way I see it this guy does everything you would expect a guy to do in 'picking up' a Cocktail Waitress - and then, after successfuly getting alone with her -- makes no attempt to even try anything? This is not the type of action you would expect from a 22 year-old, single, male alone with a young Cocktail Waitress for 3 hours in the middle of the night!

[Bryanp]

Her story is not remotely believable and you know it. Sorry my friend but it seems obvious you have been played by your wife.