Turbulent marriage / separation: worth fighting for?

[JeffLWright68]

Not sure if this belongs in Infidelity or Separaion/Divorce and I think from reading other posts here I'm going to get a lot of hard, tough advice...I guess I just need some kind of validation.

 

Separated from my wife of 71/2 years, for the last 9 months since she asked me to move out of the marital home last August: marriage has been volatile for the last 5 years to say the least: lots of arguments, fights, sometimes violent (police called on a number of occasions), but deep-down there's a huge bond between us that keeps us together. (this is the first time we've had a split or separation)

We have two girls, first born back in 2004 (she got pregnant during the first 8 weeks of us meeting) and our 2nd, back in 2009. We got married in April 2005

My name is Mike, I'm 44 and my wife is Jo, 39.

 

The main crux of the problem within our marriage is that, a) I'm lazy and took my eye off the ball and b) she tends to do everything around the house (she isn’t working right now - taking a 3-year career-break to bring up our kids) so she deals with the them, the DIY and up-keep of the house. Furthermore, sex has dwindled to almost zero now...literally none in the last 18 months.

Last August...24th to be precise, I came home from work and she said we need to talk, where-upon she informed it on me: "I think we need some time away from each other...I'm really struggling with our life as a couple and I want a separation"

I remember at the time, it didn't hit me that hard as I was fully aware of the problems, things were pretty toxic at times and they'd been two instances during the first half of 2012 that really upset her (now she tells me those incidents were the last straws) so, I did what I thought was the right thing: I moved out and stayed with my parents, thinking this would all blow over in a few weeks or so.

It didn't.

 

Weeks passed as I would follow a set pattern we agreed upon for our kids: after work I would go over to our home on the Friday or Saturday night until Sunday afternoon to see our girls and spend some time with her. However, during these weekends, she would often disappear and say she was going out with friends, going to her sisters' etc. Some nights she would stay over.

 

I didn't catch on until maybe late-October when I was looking on a mutual friends' FB account uploaded photos of a function they'd been to and I saw one solitary photo of my wife with anther guy. I know right-away exactly who it was because it was the same guy who had been to our home in June to give quotes for some construction work we had done to the rear of our home (we moved house in May 2011, really for a fresh 'start' and to try and get some stability in our marriage)

That's when the feelings hit me and I immediately confronted her when she got home.

She admitted there and then that she had met him in late-June/early-July at an after-school function (he also has two kids but is divorced) and been seeing him since August: one week after I'd moved out. They'd been in contact via phone-only and she said technically we were separated and it didn’t matter if it was 1 day, 1 week or whatever when she started seeing him.

I can't remember how I felt the rest of that night but numb and paralyzed are pretty close. The weeks and months after this discovery followed the pattern that guys feel when they've been betrayed: no sleep, thropwing up, constant anxiety attacks, I went from 215lb to 185lb in about 2 months. I was a mess.

My problem is, for whatever reason, I thought during this period that my marriage was over - after all she had found a guy, moved on and all I could do was be strong for my girls.

 

The pattern carried on for the next few months. I would go and stay at out home and be with our girls while she would go to stay with her boyfriend (Darren, 45, divorced, not much of a 'catch' looks-wise if we're being honest but I can see her attraction to him: big-build, solid, shaved-head, rough/ready type, bit of a talker and his nickname at work apparently is 'Leroy'...for obvious reasons)

 

My problem that I'm dealing with is that I'm finding it hard, almost impossible to know what to do to a) get Jo back in my life or b) just keep cool about this and let this situation they have blow itself out.

As for Jo, she is now also starting to get confused: the last month she hasnt seen this guy as much as she did, and this is either he's getting bored (I suspect she nags at him about me when she goes over or she's getting bored (she admitted to me as much - she always tells me: "he's a nice guy...he has some very good qualities and he's level-headed...but we don't have that much in common"

 

 

I feel, physically that I'm over the worst of this and the situation has settled into something of a 'norm' right now and this also scares me...somedays I feel indifferent to it all and think 'let her go' and some days, especially when I go back at weekends, I see her and I feel a terrible longing to want her back. I feel like we are still true 'soul-mates' regardless of all the bad stuff we go through.

 

 

Confused.

[Spark1111]

Separation, in and of itself, heals and changes nothing unless both partners have a plan to repair the marriage.

 

What did you do to fix things? And if it can't be fixed, then it is time to end it and set both people free to find happiness elsewhere.

 

Did you schedule counseling? Both Individual and Marriage?

 

Forget the other man. Is she testing the waters to see if there is someone better suited for her? Yes.

 

But more telling is the great lengths she took to avoid you at all costs. That says to me she is pretty sure YOU are not the man of her dreams.

 

Why all the toxic arguing in front of those babies?

 

Why is she doing the Lion's share of work in the home?

 

Do you know how to be a good husband? Kind, patient, loving, supportive? can you learn to be that man now? Yes, you can!

 

So WHY was it so turbulent and toxic?

 

You have had a brief window of opportunity here to repair damage and have done Exactly what to fight for your marriage?

[JeffLWright68]

Thanks for your reply!

 

I don't know if there's a little bit too much of co-dependancy from both of us...maybe we're appraoching that time in life, when I have thought: "Im 45, I'm losing my wife, kids and house...I don't want to get divorced" and I think she definately see's her 'availability-pool' a lot worse than mine if we did get divorced.

 

To be honest, we havent done an awful lot in the last 9 months to fix it...almost like a mutual "it's over" feeling that neither of us want to pull the trigger.

 

The OM, Darren...when I'd gotten over my intiial shock and hatred for him of stealing my wife (she says he didn't and that it was a mutual-feeling between them - he was there at a time when she felt rock-bottom), I kind of turned a blind-eye to it. Of course, I wanted to know all about him and what they got up to...but she gave me the "if you really want to know and see things, then by all means, I will gladly oblige. But you ain't going to like what you hear and see"

 

I'm a little confued as to your point about her avoiding me at all costs. That's not strictly true.

Often we will get together as a family unit (for the girls' sake) and go away on day-trips, and sometimes i will go over for dinner one day, mid-week.

Sometimes, she doesn't see her OM at all at weekends.

This is another strange one for me: he hardly ever texts or calls her...and sometimes, she will curse him out because he answered any of the 10 straight texts she's sent him.

Then all it takes is for him to call and she'll be all attentive to him again.

 

Arguing: always been in both of our nature and we always have, I guess.

Housework: Jo is one of those women who...is a can-do type. If it means getting down and dirty and roughing it, then she will.

 

Apart from cooking, I'm pretty usless as a DIY-Husband, to be honest, because she's always been better at it than me!

[Spark1111]

So, do you want it to be over?

 

Violence? What led to violence?

 

It doesn't sound conclusively that she is madly in love with this guy. He sounds convenient, for NOW.

 

But it also doesn't sound like you are pulling out all the stops to win her back either.

 

Have you considered seeing others?

[oldshirt]

I am not trying to kick you while you are down but you really do need a big wake up call. Somewhere along the way you have simply lost your balls and your sense of masculinity and what it means to be a man, a lover, a protector,a provider and a husband.

 

You became a roommate and girlfriend to her. You were a platonic roommate and you sat idlely by while she got a boyfriend and opening engaged with him.

 

She is likely gone and there is a good chance you wont get her back. Her relationship with OM probably wont work out long term but now that she's had a taste of a more masculine assertive and competent/confident man, she will likely just seek another rather than going to a roommate situation. (It sounds like you weren't even that involved as a roommate even)

 

You are just simply going to have to man-up and get your balls back and step up to the plate and start taking care of your own business. And you are going to hav to start taking charge of your own life whether you get divorced, whether your find another woman or whether you get back with her.

[Spark1111]

I am not trying to kick you while you are down but you really do need a big wake up call. Somewhere along the way you have simply lost your balls and your sense of masculinity and what it means to be a man, a lover, a protector,a provider and a husband.

 

You became a roommate and girlfriend to her. You were a platonic roommate and you sat idlely by while she got a boyfriend and opening engaged with him.

 

She is likely gone and there is a good chance you wont get her back. Her relationship with OM probably wont work out long term but now that she's had a taste of a more masculine assertive and competent/confident man, she will likely just seek another rather than going to a roommate situation. (It sounds like you weren't even that involved as a roommate even)

 

You are just simply going to have to man-up and get your balls back and step up to the plate and start taking care of your own business. And you are going to hav to start taking charge of your own life whether you get divorced, whether your find another woman or whether you get back with her.

 

And as you man up, in a quiet, confident and assertive manner....get some counseling to ENSURE there will NEVER be violence and toxic arguing on your count EVER AGAIN.

 

I would still like to ask WHY were police called on several occasions?

[JeffLWright68]

Spark

The violence has been...very random. Over the last 7 years, its usually throwing household objects at each other, pushing/shoving, she's thrown punches at me, I hit her a couple of times. It usually starts with petty little arguments which follow the 'upping-the-ante' with each comment.

(I admit, no excuses, it#s because she knows how to push my button, I feel I am to blame for the majority of this behaviour)

 

OM: I asked her straight up - "what do you actually see in this guy" (and then sarcastically), "apart from he has a big cock".

And she just said: "Look, he's a nice guy....he has some good qualities...and he's a good parent...this is what I need"

 

You're right about the part of me not doing anything - when I first discovered this, I went totally ballistic, called her out on cheating, threatened to go and deal eith this guy (she pointed out that would end very badly for me as he is known for being a bit of a 'tough-nut')

 

Police were called by neighbours for 'domestic issues' - I was cautioned on 2 occasions.

 

I have been in contact with another woman in her mid-30s....a great woman, but there is no sexual chemistry or spark there- we're just very good friends.

What happened last Summer has really knocked a lot of confidence out of me with regards to dating and meeting new women.

 

oldshirt

I'm afraid you've hit the nail squarely on the head.

Some times, in my down-times (I'm on meds right now) I do feel I'm pretty useless as a 'man'...which is why, just recently, I've resigned myself to it all and actually said to Jo, "you know, maybe your standards of perfection will never be realised and this guy Darren might be the one for you afterall. maybe he could be the one for you"

(I'm not sure if he is as Ive heard from one of his colleagues he doesn't 'do' committment, and the amount of times he actually shows interest in my wife would suggest this is the case)

 

There was one instance, which encompasses this whole situation.

Back in February, I was over to look after the kids and Jo was upstairs getting ready to out with this Darren. I went up and I have to admit, for the first time in ages, I felt a pang of jealousy when i saw how she looked. Reminded me of the early days we were dating.

I said to her, "you're still the most beautiful woman Ive seen", to which she looked at me and replied almost forelornly, "Why?"

I said, "Why, what?"

She looked at me almost with tears in her eyes:"Then why are you letting me leave our house into the arms of another man?"

I didn't know what the hell to say. Or do.

I looked down and just said, "I don't know....maybe we are done. Have a great night"

 

Actions > Words.

[Just a Guy]

Hi Jeff, Sorry to read of your situation. It seems to me that the death knell has already been sounded for your marriage. Your wife has moved on and even though you are separated you still are legally married and therefore she is cheating on you by dating another man. This was something that was not spelled out when the two of you were separating and she in particular did not tell you that both of you were now free to date others. She may have asked you to move out just so she could date this guy and in a way she had already decided to cheat on you.

 

That said, I think you owe it to your self to look out for your own interests and to prove to your wife that you are not a door mat for her. You may think that you two are soul mates but soul mates do not fight with each other or hurt one another. It seems that the two of you are incompatible to a very high degree and it is best to recognize this and simply move on. I am sure you will find some one else who will be more your type and where the two of you will not constantly tread on each others toes. Do not under rate your self and take your time to find some one who you feel comfortable with. At your age there will be no fireworks and you really cannot expect to have fireworks in your relationship with a new woman but rather a more comfortable relationship filled with warmth and happiness. I would therefore advise you to take the plunge and file for divorce. Your wife is already lost to you so why waste any more time on her? She is certainly not wasting time on you. Warm Wishes to you!

[Spark1111]

Hi Jeff, Sorry to read of your situation. It seems to me that the death knell has already been sounded for your marriage. Your wife has moved on and even though you are separated you still are legally married and therefore she is cheating on you by dating another man. This was something that was not spelled out when the two of you were separating and she in particular did not tell you that both of you were now free to date others. She may have asked you to move out just so she could date this guy and in a way she had already decided to cheat on you.

 

That said, I think you owe it to your self to look out for your own interests and to prove to your wife that you are not a door mat for her. You may think that you two are soul mates but soul mates do not fight with each other or hurt one another. It seems that the two of you are incompatible to a very high degree and it is best to recognize this and simply move on. I am sure you will find some one else who will be more your type and where the two of you will not constantly tread on each others toes. Do not under rate your self and take your time to find some one who you feel comfortable with. At your age there will be no fireworks and you really cannot expect to have fireworks in your relationship with a new woman but rather a more comfortable relationship filled with warmth and happiness. I would therefore advise you to take the plunge and file for divorce. Your wife is already lost to you so why waste any more time on her? She is certainly not wasting time on you. Warm Wishes to you!

 

And I respectfully disagree.

 

Look, you cannot control what she is doing or who she is doing it with right now, juast as she cannot control you.

 

But you had nine months here to really, really work on your issues alone (therapy) or together (MC) and I think you squandered that time by agreeing with her and hyperfocusing on this guy she seems....meh, about.

 

You did let her walk out the door into the arms of another man, you did not fight or compete to win her back, or insist on counseling or talking or anything.

 

You just focused on this guy and never did any hard work on yourself or the marriage. You did not fight for it.

 

What is it you want? Because I think the clock is ticking and you are losing the race.

 

First, what DO you want?

 

Second, how do you hope to obtain it?

 

Third, what has to change with the two of you and how you handle your issues so you will always be kind and respectful of each other. It starts with YOU LISTENING to her and learning to better communicate your feelings.

 

Do you really, really love her? Then tell her. Or, are you only upset because you may lose her to another and just do not want that guy to have her?

 

Are you capable of not blaming, punishing, yelling and hitting her?

 

Look, you can be right, or you can be loved.

 

Your choice. I hope it is NOT too late for you. And sadly, if it is and she does not want to reconcile with the new and improved you, you will be a BETTER partner for someone else in your future.

[JustAReformedGirl]

It sounds like, even if her OM isn't the guy for her, things might really be over for both of you. Your entire relationship with one another has been abusive in both the emotional and physical sense; there's a chance it can be salvaged, but in order for that to happen, you both need to be on board.

 

I'm also not entirely sure whether it constitutes as an affair, or not. On one hand, you guys were separated-but on the other, nothing was finalized.

 

Either way, that's not the major factor; do you and your wife both want to reconcile? If yes, it's going to take a lot of work. I agree with everyone who has suggested IC and MC. I think both of you require both forms of counselling, especially with all the havoc that has gone on in your relationship. Both of you have some aggression to work out, by the sounds of it. I'm sure a therapist can help you work it out in a more productive, less violent manner.

 

If recon isn't an option...I'm sorry for you. But, when it's over, sometimes you just need to pick yourself up, and move on. Take time to grieve, and mull over what about yourself you'd like to improve. What do you want for yourself? What do you want for future relationships.

 

This is all just in my opinion. I'm not in your shoes, so I can't rightly tell you how to deal with it. But, hopefully something I say can be of help.

[JeffLWright68]

Thanks for the abobe 3 posts....I will respond at length, to each, later today...

[BeholdtheMan]

I feel, physically that I'm over the worst of this and the situation has settled into something of a 'norm' right now and this also scares me...somedays I feel indifferent to it all and think 'let her go'

You have to force yourself to exercise. Weight lift, do cardio on weekends, in the evening. Find time, make time.

 

If your body is weak, your mind will be similarly affected. A weak mind makes weak decisions.

 

and some days, especially when I go back at weekends, I see her and I feel a terrible longing to want her back. I feel like we are still true 'soul-mates' regardless of all the bad stuff we go through.

Don't cave in my friend. The wisest thing is to let her go, not to surrender to your own weakness.

 

You have to evaluate this objectively. Is she really the woman you want or are you only considering taking her back because you're afraid of being alone?

 

If she comes crawling back to you because it hasn't worked out with big Leroy, I think you should send her packing. You're not her backup guy, the guy she falls back to when things don't work out with her bald muscleman.

 

Respect yourself brother. Don't let her treat you as a safety net.

[JeffLWright68]

Just A Guy

I tend to agree with you. I don't know if we're sticking togetyher for the kids, or because neither of us want to face life without each other....but there is something holding us together. To ne fair, since I moved out, when we do get together for dinner or days out with the kids, we're fine. I also know she is extremely jealous of an interest in another woman Ive been talking to / texting since February. Ther's an underlying feeling of paranoia: I admit I have snooped into her FB and iPhone and she has probably done the same with me.

I constantly pushed and probed her in the first few months of me finding out about her OM, but she flaty denied she was in a PA with him until we had separated.

To be honest, I've accepted this now as it's a moot point.

I don't have any beef with this guy because I can't prove he chased after Jo in an effort to 'steal' her from me...so, I accept they met mutually.

I also don't think their 'relationship' is going to last. From what I can gather, it went PA back in October...so, 8 months later, he still hasnt shown any form of committment to her (she says that's because I am holding them back by not moving out of house 100%, and me being there at the weekends forces her to go to his)

It sounds, being cynical about it and given his nature, that he just keeps her hanging just enough to keep her going back to him for great sex.

 

Spark

Yup, you're right also. I did spend way too much time obsessing about this OM (what husband doesnt when faced with this?). I also failed badly in my duty as a 'Man' and all the sneaky 'button-pushing' she did to keep me on the backfoot with her little comments and quips didnt help. It did seem for a few months that she used the OM as a stick to beat me with, i.e. always putting me down and telling me to "Man-up and grow a pair" and making out he was so good, etc...and then this just kicks-off arguments.

And then in the next instance, she gets all lovey-dovey and tells me she'll always love me and wants me to work things and blah-blah-blah....all very confusing for my emotions, at a time when I felt really low.

 

Behold The Man

Ive started doing weight-training at the gym. Ive never been a gym-guy, mainly cardio to weights is new to me.

We're going to have a long, sit-down chat tonight about what we really need to do and want to do...

[JeffLWright68]

I also know...I'm going to start getting 'triggers' soon....because it's about this time last year when Jo first met Darren when he came to look around our home to give quotes...that'll be when they first started texting/calling each other