Things are not the same

[JustAReformedGirl]

I understand your point of view coming from being an AP, BUT and I'll say it again that Reconciliation cannot happen until OW is out of the picture and out of the WS's head.

 

Actually, I'm the WS, in this scenario. I do agree with that point, that the AP needs to be out of the picture-but it still may take time to get said AP out of one's head. If the affair was based more in the emotional sense, for 1) developing feelings for someone else cannot be helped, or it would have been and 2) it depends on the WS in question. But, you're right. The AP does need to be out of the picture and mind before recon can occur. So in essence, recon may not occur right away.

 

 

If you are still pining for an AP it means you are not working on your M

and you are not supporting the BS in any way because I'm sure they feel the

emotional distance.

 

I have no argument, here. This is true.

 

I am in R by the way and have been in false R before, which is why I am so

adamant about not Reconciling right away. Reconciliation to me means moving

forward with all the information and cards on the table and both people need to

be 100% committed to it. Both people, including the WS, need to basically start

over again in a new marriage as the old one is dead, at least mine is.

 

That's fair.

 

It is very painful for a BS to witness a WS withdraw from an AP. Excruciating pain that no one should have to go through.

 

No one should have to go through it, I agree. Idealistically, no one wants to put their spouse through something like that at all...sadly, the world is far from ideal. If I could rewrite my story, I would. I'm sure many WS would agree.

[JustAReformedGirl]

I'm sorry but I think you are wrong about this. I believe that the first and best response from every BS would be to kick the lying cheater out or the BS packs up and leaves themselves. Why? Because the cheater has to feel the consequences of cheating. They have to have the affair fantasy bubble broken and really feel the loss of their married life. This helps the cheater grieve the affair a lot faster because it shifts their focus from the affair to the marriage and their passion becomes directed towards the BS instead of the OW/OM. If a sudden separation doesn't spurn the WS towards saving the marriage and getting passionate about their spouse then the marriage is most likely not salvageable and it's good for the BS to leave it on his/her terms.

 

In my opinion the BS who sits patiently on the side while the cheating spouse laments over the OW/OM and romanticizes the affair even more because they believe they are somehow being noble and self sacrificing by staying with their spouse, is not commanding the love and respect that everyone deserves. Instead the understanding patient always forgiving BS most likely lowers him/her self even further in the eyes of the cheating spouse. Even the OP says he wished his wife got madder and maybe threw something.

 

I'm fairly certain you misinterpreted my post.

 

I'm not saying recon is the right or the wrong thing to do. I was stating that if the BS agrees to recon, that means coming to terms with the fact that the WS might need to completely get over their AP, first.

 

Again, if they agree to recon. If they don't want to recon, and boot their spouse out, that is a perfectly understandable reaction. I'm just saying: why agree to recon with your WS, if you can't first allow them some time to get over what occurred? I get that everyone's hell-bent on assuming the WS is an evil person for daring to fall in love with someone else (don't tell me it's just in the case of PA; I've seen the over-reactions to EA, as well) and must be a heartless monster.

 

No, what the WS is, a good portion of the time, an idiot. An emotionally confused, impulsive idiot. If a BS is willing to recon and forgive their WS, that involves understanding that WS has feelings just as real as their own. Yes, BS has suffered greatly for WS's mistakes. At this point, so has WS.

 

Look, I'm not getting into it, again. Read my continued response to Ladydesigner if you want a more clear understanding of my perspective. If not, we can just agree to disagree. Either way, MMY needs to do what's right for both himself, and his W. Belittling him and criticizing him is not solving the problem. (I'm not saying you were; I'm saying it's been done).

Edited June 24, 2013 by Rebel-Dynasty

[Spark1111]

I'm fairly certain you misinterpreted my post.

 

I'm not saying recon is the right or the wrong thing to do. I was stating that if the BS agrees to recon, that means coming to terms with the fact that the WS might need to completely get over their AP, first.

 

Again, if they agree to recon. If they don't want to recon, and boot their spouse out, that is a perfectly understandable reaction. I'm just saying: why agree to recon with your WS, if you can't first allow them some time to get over what occurred? I get that everyone's hell-bent on assuming the WS is an evil person for daring to fall in love with someone else (don't tell me it's just in the case of PA; I've seen the over-reactions to EA, as well) and must be a heartless monster.

 

No, what the WS is, a good portion of the time, an idiot. An emotionally confused, impulsive idiot. If a BS is willing to recon and forgive their WS, that involves understanding that WS has feelings just as real as their own. Yes, BS has suffered greatly for WS's mistakes. At this point, so has WS.

 

Look, I'm not getting into it, again. Read my continued response to Ladydesigner if you want a more clear understanding of my perspective. If not, we can just agree to disagree. Either way, MMY needs to do what's right for both himself, and his W. Belittling him and criticizing him is not solving the problem. (I'm not saying you were; I'm saying it's been done).

 

well I do agree everyone has their feelings and ego.

 

I have a very healthy ego and would never be anyone's default choice, not for love or money or kids or legacy.

 

I am more than the wifey, or the hubby and either I was seen as a living, breathing person desiring a passionate relationship, or I would have to leave.

 

MMY, I think your wife took you back to quickly, to sweetly and with little fanfare.

 

it sounds like she may really love you or fear losing you, but I suspect if she raged and screamed and shamed you, you would have respected that more.

 

And I am not sure why. Do you now suspect she doesn't love you as much as you loved your OW?

 

had your wife been a screaming Mimi of pain and anguish, would that have convinced you of her love and passion for you??

 

because that may be your form of attachment style, learned young and replicated throughout life. That is HOW YOU feel you are loved.

 

I think maybe you need some IC to figure it out. Are you going?

[HopingAgain]

It sounds like you are letting your guilt take over and get in the way of you healing, and also withdrawing from the passion of the affair. Your wife is being calm and to you, dispassionate because she is probably trying to reign in and keep her feelings under control. You miss the passion that an affair brings, because its a rush, and wish your wife would mimic that passion even if it is with displays of anger and loss of control> Am I right?

 

It's going to take time. There is a reason you chose to stay with your wife, and she with you I am guessing it's because you really do love one another. The challenge now is for you to accept your wifes forgiveness, prove yourself worthy of it, and forgive yourself so that you can be happy again. And if you miss the passion with your wife...for God's sake...talk to her about it! She can't work on what she doesn't even know, maybe she's been holding back out of fear of rejection or some other very common and understandable reason. I know couples who have had affairs that lasted years and although it took years to heal, they are happier now than they've ever been because they hung in there and did the work to love and forgive one another. You can do this too...but be sure its what you really want and believe you deserve a second chance. Your wife does too!

[MMY]

It sounds like you are letting your guilt take over and get in the way of you healing, and also withdrawing from the passion of the affair. Your wife is being calm and to you, dispassionate because she is probably trying to reign in and keep her feelings under control. You miss the passion that an affair brings, because its a rush, and wish your wife would mimic that passion even if it is with displays of anger and loss of control> Am I right?

 

It's going to take time. There is a reason you chose to stay with your wife, and she with you I am guessing it's because you really do love one another. The challenge now is for you to accept your wifes forgiveness, prove yourself worthy of it, and forgive yourself so that you can be happy again. And if you miss the passion with your wife...for God's sake...talk to her about it! She can't work on what she doesn't even know, maybe she's been holding back out of fear of rejection or some other very common and understandable reason. I know couples who have had affairs that lasted years and although it took years to heal, they are happier now than they've ever been because they hung in there and did the work to love and forgive one another. You can do this too...but be sure its what you really want and believe you deserve a second chance. Your wife does too![/QU

 

 

Thanks so much for your words. That is why I decided to post on this site, so I could say things I needed to say and hear things I needed to hear. I hope to continue to receive support from this group.

 

FYI, me and my wife had a great night out tonight so again thanks to everyone. I might not agree or understand but I am listening.

 

[waterwoman]

Hi MMY, I wanted to address a point you made in your thread on the other forum about your children being partly the cause of your marital disconnect, because that is similar in our marriage. H accused me of caring about the children to the exclusion of him, that I was a better mother than wife. I don't argue with that. Thing is though, that happened because h stepped back as a father, he found it difficult at times, so what choice did I have? Children need someone in their corner, he withdrew, I had to fill the space he left. Being a parent isn't a hobby, a pastime to be dropped and then picked up again when it suits. Even when that child is acting like a total PITA!!! Kids are a joint project. I feel like H's affair was a form of revenge for not putting him first, in a situation where I should never have been forced to choose. Can you see that POV at all?

[MMY]

Hi MMY, I wanted to address a point you made in your thread on the other forum about your children being partly the cause of your marital disconnect, because that is similar in our marriage. H accused me of caring about the children to the exclusion of him, that I was a better mother than wife. I don't argue with that. Thing is though, that happened because h stepped back as a father, he found it difficult at times, so what choice did I have? Children need someone in their corner, he withdrew, I had to fill the space he left. Being a parent isn't a hobby, a pastime to be dropped and then picked up again when it suits. Even when that child is acting like a total PITA!!! Kids are a joint project. I feel like H's affair was a form of revenge for not putting him first, in a situation where I should never have been forced to choose. Can you see that POV at all?

 

I do see your point of view. I feel my situation was a little different (I think). My w and I had not had sex that much over the last several years. We did but not that much. All over or conversation were about the kid's, money, worries (life). We had lost focus on us, dreams that we had, goals to reach.

I never backed away from the kids, I am at every ballgame, event that they have. I even told her how I felt on 2 separate occasions. I even quit making advances to her and said I will wait to see if she wants me and it never really happened. When it did it was too late. I crossed the line and started an A and at that point I withdrew from everyone except my son. My daughter and I (she is 18) are still having problems.

My wife found out about the A and we are working to get our relationship back in line. I am not saying it is all her fault at all, we both realized we were not meeting each others needs.

If I can answer anything else let me know and I wish you the best

[JustAReformedGirl]

I understand what you are saying just fine. It is you who is not understanding my post.

 

On the contrary; you didn't fully understand what I said, or you wouldn't have made this post. I'll get to what you missed momentarily.

 

 

I'm saying even IF the BW wants to reconcile and forgive, she should still

not put up with the MM pining and moping for the affair. If he's hanging around

crying and grieving the OW then the BW needs to kick his ass out so he can give

his head a shake and figure what and who is most important to him. Giving him

the boot will wake him up and destroy the affair fantasy. The BW should not put

up with one second of him grieving or crying over the OW. He can take his

cheating ass somewhere else to do that. He can go back home once he's cleared

his head and understands where his priorities are.

 

This section; if you'd paid attention to my posts in the first place (particularly in my conversation with ladydesigner) you would have seen that I clearly stated that recon could not occur until the WS got over the AP. Therefore, everything you just wrote in the above box was a waste of both our time. I clearly indicated that recon may have to wait until after the fact. If you missed that, it's not my problem, it's yours. I have low tolerance for people who are too lazy to read the full thing.

 

 

 

 

 

The BW who allows the WS to stay at home and participate in the

marriage all the while pining for the OW is only encouraging the affair fantasy

to continue and her husband will not respect her for it. I know you are a WS,

but the OP on this thread is a man and men are different. They like to see their

wives/gf's stick up for themselves.

 

Thank you for clearing that up; I never would have known that men and women were different...

 

And despite that, we still are both capable of doing, thinking, and feeling the same things. Also, the fact that the OP, in particular, would like his spouse to stick up for herself isn't lost on me. He clearly stated he wishes she would; anyone feeling guilty would want that, regardless of gender.

 

 

In any case, I've said what I needed to say originally. If you're going to bother replying to me, make sure you actually catch all of what I say; otherwise, I'm not wasting my time further.

[Zenstudent]

Things are not the same

 

My W and I are trying to work on our marriage after an A was discovered on my behalf. I am 3 months removed from a EA/PA and although my w is doing her best for us to move on, I am the one who can't get the A out of my head. The A lasted 18 mths.

 

It is hard for me to even kiss her. she wants to but I just don't feel right.

 

I keep answering my own question the (Time) is needed.

 

Anyway thanks for any comments.

A few comments from me. I agree that more than time is needed - you also need to do the work. I recall seeing somewhere, that the typical mourning periode for an affair is (as a rule of thumb) one week per month the affair lasted.

 

For me as a BS, the anger phase stroke at around 6-12 months past D-day, and it wasn't pretty. I think you will see more from your wife unless she is very good at suppressing or rug sweeping.

 

I would like to add, that had my wife not been able to show love and be intimate in the beginning, we would've been divorced by now. She pretty much destroyed my sense of self, my self esteem and confidence from one day to another. I questioned everything in my life, still do to some degree, and if she had shown any hesitation at all in professing her love for me, I would've asked her to leave.

 

I would also like to know, do you really love your wife?

[MMY]

A few comments from me. I agree that more than time is needed - you also need to do the work. I recall seeing somewhere, that the typical mourning periode for an affair is (as a rule of thumb) one week per month the affair lasted.

 

For me as a BS, the anger phase stroke at around 6-12 months past D-day, and it wasn't pretty. I think you will see more from your wife unless she is very good at suppressing or rug sweeping.

 

I would like to add, that had my wife not been able to show love and be intimate in the beginning, we would've been divorced by now. She pretty much destroyed my sense of self, my self esteem and confidence from one day to another. I questioned everything in my life, still do to some degree, and if she had shown any hesitation at all in professing her love for me, I would've asked her to leave.

 

I would also like to know, do you really love your wife?

Yes

We are doing a lot better

[waterwoman]

zen -"I would like to add, that had my wife not been able to show love and be intimate in the beginning, we would've been divorced by now. She pretty much destroyed my sense of self, my self esteem and confidence from one day to another. I questioned everything in my life, still do to some degree, and if she had shown any hesitation at all in professing her love for me, I would've asked her to leave."

 

Totally agree. I never doubted H loved me. Not for a single moment. The issue for me was whether he loved her more and whether he would have rather been with her than me. In fact he was all over me as soon as I let him know I was open to the suggestion.