No Proof

[Sunflower22]

It has been several months since I posted anything on this site. Last time I posted on here my husband was being very hateful and I was sure he was cheating. I am not going to explain all the details but lets just say it was the most horrible thing I have ever been through in my life and it lasted for over a year. Why did I stay... I have two very young children and my son was only an infant during this time. I was concerned about what was best for them, money, and I was very hurt since prior to this I thought my husband hung the moon. He hurt me emotionally every day and he did not care at all. After going through this for about 9 months I told him to divorce me that I was fine with it. I had cried my tears and I was over him and I meant it. I did become stronger or just numb and started getting use to taking life and situations as they come. Nothing in my life accept my job felt stable during this time. I was not perfect, he would hurt me and I would become very emotional and overreact in the beginning. Once I got numb though he couldn't upset me anymore. I just took him with a grain of salt and I started doing things on my own. If he wouldn't help me or didn't want to be involved I would just do it with my kids on my own and not worry about him or his plans. this got easy for me and I started to be happy living my life and just ignoring him. He surprisingly started to try to be decent to me. And I was just decent back but I did not trust him. Now things have been better for about 4 or 5 months. He would threaten me with divorce but says he never really wanted one. My question here is that I feel like he cheated on me and I am not sure if he is still screwing around. I have done as much as I know to do but have not found any proof. Do you think the truth always comes out? I just can't put all the pieces together and I need help. He was traveling a lot during the time he was behaving this way but since his travel has really slowed down to 1 trip a month and it has only been 1 night overstay. I talk to him several times while hes gone. Other than that he works from home. He claims he has never cheated but I just can't help to feel like he is lying. How can I get proof. How can he live with himself. No matter if we stay married or not I cannot forget the way he treated me.

[Balzac]

How exactly does amassing "proof" change your decision to remain in the marriage?

[dichotomy]

Well - he was emotionally abusive - you stopped taking it and got stronger - and he has improved noticably? How much better is he doing towards you? What do you still need?

 

And what exactly does "I did as much as I could to find out" mean ? What were you able to do to investigate if he was or is having an affair.

 

If you do find not evidence (proof he has not strayed) - has he turned around "enough" from his abusive ways to stay married ? Maybe you would give him some more time to continue his improvement if you knew he was faithful?

 

Unsure about how your feeling.

[Sunflower22]

If I knew he was cheating on me for sure I would not stay in the marriage. I could not live with that. If he was acting out because we were both going through a lot during this time then that is a different story but if I new that he treated me that way strictly because of another women and not stress then I would not stay. No one is perfect and during this time that he was treating me this way we had a new baby, a new house, and his job description changed which caused him to find a new job and both caused increase travel. We had a lot going on and that is what I can't distinquish was it all the stress or was it another women and is he still fooling around. He was very distant and ugly during this time.

[scatterd]

I am sorry for your pain. Your husband could have been cheating and ended it. Many end it before they are discovered. I understand how bad you want to know the truth but you may never know. Their could be a chance he did not and this could cause you to put up walls.

[Sunflower22]

Dichotomy Thank you for your response. He has improved in the fact that he does not play games with me anymore. He use to do things to make me suspicious but he has stopped doing those things. He is more upfront and forward with me and open like he was before all this happened. I use to feel very unstable about what he would do next. I still don't trust him 100 percent although I don't tell him that. I still wonder if he will go back to acting this way again. But I also have better control of my emotions now so he is not really able to play these games with me. I have learned to be quiet and calm and just watch and let whatever he does be his complete responsibility and he has to have ownership for it. Whereas before I'd get upset and emotional and he would turn the tables on me. Now he can't do that anymore and I have more control. It has been the best lesson I have learned out of all of this to always have control over me. I think it actually freaks him out sometimes cause he cannot get to me.

 

He tells me he loves me more often but I take it with a grain of salt. He has started to try to do more hobbies with me and for the most part I am happy. I am happy that I made it out stronger, my kids are well adjusted and very happy. It is just very hard for me to be affectionate with him and really mean it. It is hard for me to tell him I love him and not have a pain in my chest. I feel like I'm faking most affection. This is what bothers me most. I am decent to him, I am a good wife, never cheated, but I just don't have the affection part in my life. If I had to I could live with out it but I just never feel like he loves me. If he did why would he hurt me as badly as he has. The things he said and did when he says he loves me they come back. It doesn't hurt me as much as it did but I can't forget how he made me feel. Now I am a very attractive women and he knows that. The only thing he didn't try to take from me verbally during this time was that he never denied I was attractive but he just said men would use me cause now that I have kids I'm all used up. No man wants a women with kids. I just fear that I will never have that strong bond with anyone again in my life where I can trust them and feel safe and wrap my arms around them and trust them with my heart.

[dichotomy]

So you put a keylogger on his computer, checked out his online email, and social (like FB) accounts. You went through his cell phone histroy, bank accounts, credit card records, papers, and found nothing?

 

Many men are fine with a woman with kids. Many men would be affectionate, passionate and wrap their arms around you. If you are an attractive gal (or even an average one) I suspect you have already attracted men or would easily if you put yourself out there. Don't let anyone tell you differently.

 

It is difficult not to remember hurtful things said and done. My wife has said some painful ones to me, but stopped and now provides praise. But its hard to forget those words. People for all sorts of reasons say or do things which are hurtful or not loving. I have done this myself and regret it.

 

And yes you have learned a very important life skill - being in control of yourself and not letting him (or others control you).

Edited June 24, 2013 by dichotomy

[Realist3]

Well - he was emotionally abusive - you stopped taking it and got stronger - and he has improved noticably? How much better is he doing towards you? What do you still need?

 

And what exactly does "I did as much as I could to find out" mean ? What were you able to do to investigate if he was or is having an affair.

 

If you do find not evidence (proof he has not strayed) - has he turned around "enough" from his abusive ways to stay married ? Maybe you would give him some more time to continue his improvement if you knew he was faithful?

 

Unsure about how your feeling.

 

I agree with this advice. If it is getting better roll with it.

 

 

Finding out about an affair can be a very difficult thing to do when it is actually going on. Finding out about them after they have stopped is exponentially harder, if not impossible.

 

You said you investigated. You said you have read here so I am assuming you know what to look for. The only thing I can think of at this point is bank records and cell phone logs. Any smart cheater will delete any communication immediately, so I doubt you will find much in that area.

 

My point is that after you have done some of the most possible thing and come up with nothing, you are going to have to let it go. It will be an act in futility that will drive you crazy, and unable to move forward in your M.

 

 

With the description you gave about what was going on at the time that you suspected him and his behavior was abusive, I strongly suspect it was the stress of what was going on. I'm not excusing the abuse, but that is what my gut tells me.

[Realist3]

He tells me he loves me more often but I take it with a grain of salt. He has started to try to do more hobbies with me and for the most part I am happy. I am happy that I made it out stronger, my kids are well adjusted and very happy. It is just very hard for me to be affectionate with him and really mean it. It is hard for me to tell him I love him and not have a pain in my chest. I feel like I'm faking most affection. This is what bothers me most. I am decent to him, I am a good wife, never cheated, but I just don't have the affection part in my life. If I had to I could live with out it but I just never feel like he loves me. If he did why would he hurt me as badly as he has. The things he said and did when he says he loves me they come back. It doesn't hurt me as much as it did but I can't forget how he made me feel. Now I am a very attractive women and he knows that. The only thing he didn't try to take from me verbally during this time was that he never denied I was attractive but he just said men would use me cause now that I have kids I'm all used up. No man wants a women with kids. I just fear that I will never have that strong bond with anyone again in my life where I can trust them and feel safe and wrap my arms around them and trust them with my heart.

 

WOW! Although not exactly the same I can really identify with this.

 

 

The main reason I made the decision to have an affair was because my wife lost me emotionally. I tuned out and she has never been able to get me back. I doubt she ever will.

[Sunflower22]

Thank you all for your responses I really needed this...

 

So around the time this all started I did see a text on his cell phone from a lady he works with regarding some work function party and that it was going to be a blast. I was enraged and confronted him about it. He said it was a women he worked with and that I was being rediculous esp. since he only worked for the company for a month. This girl was assigned to train him in his new job role and he said he was friendly with her cause he worked with her. I met her at the function. This was the last text outside of communication regarding work I ever saw from her and she no longer works for the company. This came up in counseling where my husband stated the same arguement that he works with women and it was nothing. So I am not sure if I can define that as proof or not but I was suspicious and the worse thing is the next week they assigned him to someone else because he said he told his boss I was suspicious of something and both of them felt uncomfortable. Not sure if that is true or not but she was no longer his mentor????

 

Then several months later I saw a message from a long time ex girlfriend who just pops up. I saw the message right away before he did and asked him who it was (remember things were very rocky with us and I was scrutinizing everything). the message said remember when we were friends. How are you doing. He told me he didn't know who it was so he called the number and got his ex-girlfriends answering machine. He told me it was her so I asked how in the world could she get his cell number and he swear that he never talked to her that he had no clue. He text her back and told her he was married and to leave him alone. She text him back and asked if he was in trouble. Which was extremely odd. I text her and told her to leave my family alone. she text both of us back and told us to leave her alone. He says she must have got his information off of social media or something. That was the last I have ever heard or seen from her.

 

Would you consider these two incidences enough proof?

 

what I did to investigate.....

 

I hired a private investigator in the town he travels to for one of his trips to see if he was seeing anyone. It came back negative as far as another women but he was lying to me about being in his room and the details. which proves he was purposely trying to make me suspect things.

 

I checked all of our credit cards regularly and still do to make sure there are no charges. I have checked all of his pay check stubs to make sure that the money getting deposited matches the money he makes. On the money end everything adds up. He has not used any personal money for anything.

 

I check his phone regularly. I did get a logger and did that for about a day or two but somehow he found out so that started an argument and it was erased from computer. In the day or two I was able to see all his email accounts I did not see anything from another women.

 

I got all itineraries and flight times and emails requiring him to be where he was going for work. I showed up on his trips when I could and he hated that.

 

I looked into things as much as I possibly could unless you guys have more suggestions.

[Sunflower22]

I forgot to mention that yes I did go through his face book account and linked in and still do and did not find anything. Went through his papers laundry after trips bags after trips. Only found the two text from different people that were suspicious but not sure if means an affair.

[dichotomy]

You did a fair amount of investigation! I would say you can move on from this concern, particualry now that he seems to be making some progress in being better.

[Realist3]

I think you have done about all you can do, or need to do.

 

This guy would have to be James Bond to get by all of that. If he was cheating there would be tons and tons of evidence from the methods you employed.

 

Let it go.

[BetrayedH]

I don't think anything you've listed so far indicates an affair.

 

It's also possible that he just knows that you're watching. Those that want to hide an affair can be damn good at it; just ask Realist3 what efforts he and his OW have undertaken to keep their affair secret. It's remarkable.

 

Other suggestions for you: get a voice activated recorder (VAR) and place it under the steering column in his car. APs frequently speak with one another on the way to/from work and he could be doing it on a separate pre-paid cell phone. These are relatively cheap and simple. Also consider installing a GPS on his vehicle. It ran $250 but I caught my wife at a hotel on the first download. A "live" GPS would cost more like $500 and a monthly subscription.

[Realist3]

It's also possible that he just knows that you're watching. Those that want to hide an affair can be damn good at it; just ask Realist3 what efforts he and his OW have undertaken to keep their affair secret. It's remarkable.

 

It was pretty unremarkable until I got caught.

 

Unless you are dealing with a serial cheater, most people that get involved in an affair have little to no clue WTF they are doing in terms of evading detection. That is why they are so easily caught.

 

But yes, I do jump through some hoops that would make it very very difficult. I just don't sense that this guy is doing any of that.

 

Other suggestions for you: get a voice activated recorder (VAR) and place it under the steering column in his car. APs frequently speak with one another on the way to/from work and he could be doing it on a separate pre-paid cell phone. These are relatively cheap and simple. Also consider installing a GPS on his vehicle. It ran $250 but I caught my wife at a hotel on the first download. A "live" GPS would cost more like $500 and a monthly subscription.

 

He could be. This is perhaps the most important tool for a cheaters. BUT they also require payment by someone every month. They are going to be burning up the communication and it costs $. There are no unlimited plans on pre-paid cell phones.

 

The only way you can get around that is a pre-paid credit card or cash. But those leave traces as well. While I don't have to go to this extreme, that is also able to be defeated. You take out small amounts over your transaction, every time, and add that to your pre-paid credit card. That way there are no regular sums taken out that are routine or large.

 

 

I just don't think most people having affairs do all of that.

[2sunny]

If I knew he was cheating on me for sure I would not stay in the marriage. I could not live with that. If he was acting out because we were both going through a lot during this time then that is a different story but if I new that he treated me that way strictly because of another women and not stress then I would not stay. No one is perfect and during this time that he was treating me this way we had a new baby, a new house, and his job description changed which caused him to find a new job and both caused increase travel. We had a lot going on and that is what I can't distinquish was it all the stress or was it another women and is he still fooling around. He was very distant and ugly during this time.

 

Ok, how about a polygraph? That would determine how you make a firm decision to stay or leave, right?

[Jenn.Smith]

This is purely my unproffesional opinion. I think you want him to be/have been cheating. Not only would that explain his cruelness but it would also give you a way out guilt free. Honey, those texts are not enough to suspect in themselves at all. And you really didn't find anything to prove it.

 

If you are unhappy in your marriage, don't feel you have to stay in it or need to justify leaving. Some hurts take a long time to heal and sometimes they won't heal unless you change your enviroment.

 

But obssessing to the point you are is not healthy at all. Are you in IC or just MC?

[Sunflower22]

So that makes since I thought that he would have to be really good at hiding it with all that I have done and that it would be really hard for him. He is really very fanatical about money! He says especially now since he has two babies to care for and provide for so because of this we have two accounts. One account strictly for bills and savings and another for spending and entertainment. He does not touch the spending account I control that. If we do a family thing or trip he leaves that to me the other account I see but no money is ever drawn from it just bills taken out which I can monitor. So he really has no free mOney of any sort. That is why I made a point to check his paycheck stubs to make sure he wasn't taking money before it was deposited and that turned up legit. So maybe he's doing nothing. Maybe I couldn't put it together cause it's not there

[Confused48]

Ok, how about a polygraph? That would determine how you make a firm decision to stay or leave, right?

 

Seriously? The OP is probably paranoid and driving her H away with her spying and suspicion. I bet if she asked for a poly it would not be a good day for the OP.

[BetrayedH]

It was pretty unremarkable until I got caught.

 

Unless you are dealing with a serial cheater, most people that get involved in an affair have little to no clue WTF they are doing in terms of evading detection. That is why they are so easily caught.

 

But yes, I do jump through some hoops that would make it very very difficult. I just don't sense that this guy is doing any of that.

 

 

 

He could be. This is perhaps the most important tool for a cheaters. BUT they also require payment by someone every month. They are going to be burning up the communication and it costs $. There are no unlimited plans on pre-paid cell phones.

 

The only way you can get around that is a pre-paid credit card or cash. But those leave traces as well. While I don't have to go to this extreme, that is also able to be defeated. You take out small amounts over your transaction, every time, and add that to your pre-paid credit card. That way there are no regular sums taken out that are routine or large.

 

 

I just don't think most people having affairs do all of that.

 

I might tend to agree with you but would note that the OP in this case was caught using a keylogger, which could be construed by her husband as him almost being busted. Discovering a keylogger would put him on high alert.

 

Beyond that, it seems really disingenuous of you to downplay the efforts a cheater might imply when you yourself have a BS's PI in your back pocket, change vehicles and the like. You are the poster child for the leg ths to which a cheater will go to keep up their deception.

 

That said, I've acknowledged that what she has isn't real proof at all and even the usual red flags are present. I recommend that she finishes investigating via the last few tools that are commonly employed. If she then truly finds nothing, she needs to seriously consider that she's paranoid over something that isn't the case and focus on improving the marriage.

[Realist3]

So that makes since I thought that he would have to be really good at hiding it with all that I have done and that it would be really hard for him. He is really very fanatical about money! He says especially now since he has two babies to care for and provide for so because of this we have two accounts. One account strictly for bills and savings and another for spending and entertainment. He does not touch the spending account I control that. If we do a family thing or trip he leaves that to me the other account I see but no money is ever drawn from it just bills taken out which I can monitor. So he really has no free mOney of any sort. That is why I made a point to check his paycheck stubs to make sure he wasn't taking money before it was deposited and that turned up legit. So maybe he's doing nothing. Maybe I couldn't put it together cause it's not there

 

It is hard to find something that's not there. Like I said it can drive you crazy.

 

I would be more than happy to tell you if I saw something, but I don't.

 

You should focus on whether and how you can get over the emotional abuse he inflicted.

 

Good luck.

[Realist3]

I might tend to agree with you but would note that the OP in this case was caught using a keylogger, which could be construed by her husband as him almost being busted. Discovering a keylogger would put him on high alert.

 

Beyond that, it seems really disingenuous of you to downplay the efforts a cheater might imply when you yourself have a BS's PI in your back pocket, change vehicles and the like. You are the poster child for the leg ths to which a cheater will go to keep up their deception.

 

That said, I've acknowledged that what she has isn't real proof at all and even the usual red flags are present. I recommend that she finishes investigating via the last few tools that are commonly employed. If she then truly finds nothing, she needs to seriously consider that she's paranoid over something that isn't the case and focus on improving the marriage.

 

I'm not downplaying anything.

 

He should never ever have found out about the keylogger. In all honesty she has made numerous mistakes throughout this whole ordeal in terms of her investigative quest; IF she was dealing with a cheater that knew what they were doing.

 

YES, he could subvert everything she has done so far. That takes effort and money.

 

The kicker for my conclusions were that when the steps taken, which would catch almost anyone, provided nothing; the turmoil of infant, job turmoil, etc. made a lot of sense in terms of what might be cause him to act abnormally.

 

Obviously she was the thinking the trigger for his emotional abuse was an affair. She has gone above and beyond in investigating, and came up with zero. But we do known reasons for stress that occurred at the same time.

 

So, for me, when you have no evidence of one suspicion and clear evidence for another possibility, you lean to the latter.

[Realist3]

All I'm saying is that what she has done would have turned up something, unless this guy was really really good.

[Sunflower22]

I want to thank everyone who responded for the support and advice. Everyone gave really good points that I had not thought about. Along with you guys the people closest to me in my life that know my husband and all the events surrounding do not think he cheated but instead think my husband has serious issues from childhood with dealing with stress. My mom who has been married for 22 years and is a fairly young smart woman is my closet friend and one of these people. She listened and watched everything he did to me and didn't agree with it but would never conclude that he was cheating which very much so frustrated me or made me think she didn't want to hurt me but on the other hand my mom has always been a straight shooter regardless of feelings when she sees necessary. He was abused as a child and this is what she thinks it all stems from. His mother never accepted him and even still at his age punishes him by no contact and he is extremely affected by her and so when he is even the slightest upset he becomes cold, distant and rejecting and he can do this anytime he wants to for anything that he deems appropriate. Now when he does this I calmly point it out and tell him that that is not a good way to cope or good qualities cause at this point I have learned to deal with his disapproval and rejection but what about my two beautiful children. I'm sure the day will come that they disappoint him but he does not have the right to destroy them inside for making a mistake. This will be my next fight with him those two children are my world and I love them more than myself so I will not stand by and do nothing. I'm just hoping that through calmness and love he will realize and get the help he needs.

[Realist3]

I wish you the best.