Question for BS

[canuckprincess]

This question is for BS or WS, after Dday and if you decided not to separate once the dust settled, Did you ever ask the WS what they wanted and what would make them happy? From people I've spoke to and even when it happened to me I never bothered to ask my ex husband what he truly wanted. Does it matter to you if your spouse is happy, once they have betrayed you?

[Owl]

Actually, yes, I wanted to know what would make her happy even after her affair. I loved her even then.

 

In fact, while we were seperated in house and planning on an actual "trial" seperation, I helped her work on a resume, work on a budget for herself, and planned on helping her move out.

 

When I realized that she intended to remain seperated for at least a year and continue to see both OM and myself during that time, I changed my plans, and informed her that if this was her choice, I'd rather divorce than do a "trial seperation" on those conditions. I wouldn't wait that long for her to 'figure things out'.

 

That was part of what led to her finally making a decision to work on our marriage...and ultimately to our reconciliation.

[underwater2010]

I gave him the choice to leave or stay. Without any further bad feelings. If he wanted to stay he had to work on the marriage with me. To make both of us happy in the long run.

[canuckprincess]

Actually, yes, I wanted to know what would make her happy even after her affair. I loved her even then.

 

In fact, while we were seperated in house and planning on an actual "trial" seperation, I helped her work on a resume, work on a budget for herself, and planned on helping her move out.

 

When I realized that she intended to remain seperated for at least a year and continue to see both OM and myself during that time, I changed my plans, and informed her that if this was her choice, I'd rather divorce than do a "trial seperation" on those conditions. I wouldn't wait that long for her to 'figure things out'.

 

That was part of what led to her finally making a decision to work on our marriage...and ultimately to our reconciliation.

 

 

She wanted to keep you as an option, and when you took that off the table she decided to stay, hmmm so how do you feel that she's truly committed to you when she really wanted to leave?

[Zenstudent]

This question is for BS or WS, after Dday and if you decided not to separate once the dust settled, Did you ever ask the WS what they wanted and what would make them happy? From people I've spoke to and even when it happened to me I never bothered to ask my ex husband what he truly wanted. Does it matter to you if your spouse is happy, once they have betrayed you?

Yes, it does matter. I think I was initially too much interested in what she wanted. Many BS tend to search them selves for shortcomings to understand what went wrong.

 

Months went by before I realized that what mattered most, was what I wanted. then I could start to heal and meet her halfway as an equal partner.

[waterwoman]

Of course. Who wants to be married to someone who is full of regrets. In fact it was the one old bone I gnawed at for months and months - is this what he really wants, is he happy, does he miss her? Round and round in my head. Because no matter how many times he said it, no matter how many ways he tried to show me, to prove it, I still doubted it. Why? Because once he had fallen for someone else how could he convince me otherwise? But you see the thing is, he loved her AS WELL as me, not instead of. And he chose to give her up to keep me. His choice, not mine. So I guess in the end I have to beleive that actions speak louder than words. He is still here. So am I. She isn't.

 

Will the doubts ever go away 100% ? I don't know. But I have come to realise that the best thing for me to do is to stop worrying about it - concentrate on making me happy and if he chooses to continue to stay, assume that he is making the right decision for him too. I can't read his mind. This is his choice.

[Owl]

She wanted to keep you as an option, and when you took that off the table she decided to stay, hmmm so how do you feel that she's truly committed to you when she really wanted to leave?

 

That's the thing...she didn't know what she wanted at the time. She'd not given herself any time to think things through.

 

How do I know that she's truly committed to me now?

 

Almost nine years of reconciled marriage since this all occurred. Massive changes in behavior and attitude since then. She's demonstrated with her actions where her heart is at now.

 

Did I know for sure that day she made her choice? Of course not. I had to take a risk...use a little faith...when it was a very scarce commodity at the time for me.

 

It took about another 18 months after that before I truly began to believe that we were indeed 'going to make it'.

 

But after 17 years of marriage (at the time)...it was a calculated risk I felt I could take.

[janedoe67]

I believe the first primary job of the WS is to be remorseful, to be transparent, and to strive to make amends and become trustworthy again. After that, then....if one wants to stay married then yes I do think it would be beneficial to at least strive to make each other happy, even if one spouse or the other (likely both) has not been perfect.

[dichotomy]

Yes - I tried to understand what "wants" drove her to have a secrete relationship with a MM - both before she met me - and after she met me/married me. What made her happy with him (and others)

 

Unforntauntely what she wanted an got with him - what made her happy - -was NOT something I would/could never really give her in our marriage or relationship, So it has not been about me trying to give her this (ok maybe a tiny bit) - but about changing her expectations and understanding of what a real loving committed realtionship is (my love and our marriage)- and wehter she can come to thrive in it..... it or not.

 

In short - you need to find a way to be happy with me - and want me - and this marriage - or forget it - and go back to guys like him. Still working on this shift in what is love and happiness and sexual passion - and is painful for both of us.

Edited June 24, 2013 by dichotomy

[aliveagain]

I have been betrayed by 4 different women in my life so I look at things differently now. One included the raising of an affair child for his first year of life, I can't even begin to explain to you the pain I experienced over that mind f**k. Years later and I am still not over that one. I have zero tolerance for infidelity now when it relates to me. These things pertain to me only and I hope I do not offend anyone that reads this post, that is not my intent. I will date a woman that has been unfaithful in a past relationship but I will never be exclusive with her. I have learned to ask questions before allowing my heart to fall for someone. I am in a much better financial position and money worries are no longer a problem, I am a gourmet cook and can take care of myself. Things that have to do with housekeeping I hire out. My art is my main focus now, my children have grown and we have a fantastic relationship. My needs are different now, companionship, a travel mate, someone to cuddle with, someone to share all my experiences with, someone to love that will love me back is all I want. Infidelity will not be tolerated again, I know that there is no guarantee that the next woman in my life will be my last and she won't cheat on me, but if I adhere to my own rules the chances of that happening are greatly reduced. There is no longer a second chance with me.

[HopingAgain]

Yes, I asked repeatedly about his feelings. That actually wound up being a big part of our therapy later, exploring our feelings together. I asked if he wanted to be with her, and also let him know if he wanted to leave he could see the kids as often as he liked in case that was a major concern. He explained his feelings and none of it included a desire to be with exOW or wanting to leave.

[Ninja'sHusband]

This question is for BS or WS, after Dday and if you decided not to separate once the dust settled, Did you ever ask the WS what they wanted and what would make them happy? From people I've spoke to and even when it happened to me I never bothered to ask my ex husband what he truly wanted. Does it matter to you if your spouse is happy, once they have betrayed you?

I think the problem for many is they ask that question too soon. That was THE question I had almost immediately after DDay... well, actually it was more like, "Why?". Even "Why?" was the wrong question, it just gave her opportunity to blame shift and not focus on herself. I think it's too easy for a WS to eventually come to the conclusion that none of it was their fault and that they were justified. The right question should have been, "What was it within yourself that caused you to do this and what are you going to do to prevent it from happening again?" No, I take it back, even that was the wrong question because she wasn't telling the truth about what actually happened. How can you get into motivations and such when you don't even know what was done?? Counseling is so pointless if someone is just lying through their teeth the whole time.

 

Anyway, I think my point is that question is often asked, but is often done way too early. I think knowing each other's needs is something that's vitally important, but the truth about what happened and what boundary\moral problems exist comes first. Check out "His Needs Her Needs" if you haven't already, I think that whole book addresses this thread's topic.

[Spotme]

A Tale of the Search for Happy (answers at the end, I hope). So prior to the affair, H had two issues that he was hiding from me because he thought they would make me unhappy and that it was his job as man and protector to make sure I was happy and secure up there on my pedestal. So he was unhappy in silence instead. Then, with the encouragement and pursuit of the AP, who has a stated philosophy of not letting the consequences to other people interfere with one's pursuit of happiness, he decided he could find the extra happiness he wanted by having an emotional affair with her. Then, after many months, she made it clear that she was not happy with the status quo, so he agreed that sex would make both of them even happier. What had happened to his regard for my happiness? Who knows, but it was certainly all about his and her happiness at that point. I was instead suffering in silence in the name of supporting my life partner who was attributing his transformation into a miserable jerk to work stress and thinking that if I made everything outside of work perfect, he would be happy again. Then the AP made it clear that she was once again unhappy with the status quo and he needed to "figure out what would make him happy." She also made it clear that the only outcome that would make her happy would be for him to leave me. That's where he was stuck when DDay hit.

 

The first thing I asked him: what would make him happy? Did he want to leave? His answer, no, that although he was currently deeply unhappy in the pile of sh*t of his own making, he believed that his long-term path to happiness lay with me. So yes, his happiness was absolutely part of the equation of reconciling. However, what changed was that our new relationship is based on each of us stating our wants and needs and raising all issues even if they are scary, so that we are both on the same page and we are both getting our needs and wants met. If his attitude ever suggests that is changing again, I will be right there pushing to work things out honestly, because I don't think either of us could be "happy" with the lies again. If we can't meet each other's needs in the future, so be it, but I know that my happiness depends on not traveling this road again.

[krazikat]

This question is for BS or WS, after Dday and if you decided not to separate once the dust settled, Did you ever ask the WS what they wanted and what would make them happy? From people I've spoke to and even when it happened to me I never bothered to ask my ex husband what he truly wanted. Does it matter to you if your spouse is happy, once they have betrayed you?

 

Yes, I told my fWH that if he wanted to be with ow, then be with her. I brought it up a few times just to make sure. His response each time was no, that he would not be with her even if I made him leave me, that he would rather be alone. That he would never be in a real relationship with her. And I wanted to know for my own happiness...because I would not want to be married to a man who wants someone else...i know i deserve better than that!

 

His A was for years, his work and my work schedule enabled the A to stay hidden for years.

 

But Dday = ow dropped. By h choice, fully.

[canuckprincess]

I believe the first primary job of the WS is to be remorseful, to be transparent, and to strive to make amends and become trustworthy again. After that, then....if one wants to stay married then yes I do think it would be beneficial to at least strive to make each other happy, even if one spouse or the other (likely both) has not been perfect.

 

I agree somewhat and yes they should be remorseful but what about the ones that pretend to be transparent and remorseful but truly aren't. Just because you say I'm sorry doesn't always mean you are.

[canuckprincess]

Yes, I told my fWH that if he wanted to be with ow, then be with her. I brought it up a few times just to make sure. His response each time was no, that he would not be with her even if I made him leave me, that he would rather be alone. That he would never be in a real relationship with her. And I wanted to know for my own happiness...because I would not want to be married to a man who wants someone else...i know i deserve better than that!

 

His A was for years, his work and my work schedule enabled the A to stay hidden for years.

 

But Dday = ow dropped. By h choice, fully.

 

 

 

I'm always curious how you know the A ended after dday?

[tbf]

I agree somewhat and yes they should be remorseful but what about the ones that pretend to be transparent and remorseful but truly aren't. Just because you say I'm sorry doesn't always mean you are.

Using this logic, why would you ask a WS what they want to make them happy since their words can't be trusted?

[krazikat]

I'm always curious how you know the A ended after dday?

 

Well, there are a few things that allow me to know the A is over...

.

For one, he has completely stopped drinking/drugs. Immediatly after dday, he stopped cold turkey and has not touched any since...this shows me that he is absolutely serious about changing the negative behaviors/addictions.

 

Second, he changed his phone number when she would not stop calling/texting him.

 

Third, when ow could not get ahold of him, she started calling me saying all kinds of crazy lies. We believe she was at that point trying to get him mad enough to call her...didnt work. I blocked her. And yes, I know much of what she told me were lies...by that point I had read their texts and heard vm, also she called/texted him hundreds of times begging him to call her and saying how much that she loved him...actually it was quite.sad. one conversation we had she was crying to me about how much she loved him, saying she hurt more than me, and told me that I "won" my husband?

 

Truth is, prior to our marriage, I had a R with om during a time we werent together. My now H was absolutely devastated. I immediately ended the r with om when i saw the reaction from my now.h. It breaks my heart to think about it even now, 10 years later. I later found out my now h had been planning to propose. Instead, he started drinking heavilly, walked away from his religion, started doing drugs, started having ons. He broke.

 

I did not know how broken he was until after we married. I posted my story before. It sux, really, and I often wonder how things would have been of I hadnt decided on sleeping with om.

 

But to answer how I know the A has ended? Well, simply that he is now back to the man I fell in love with, the man who shows his love for his family.

[ComingInHot]

canuck wrote, " I agree somewhat and yes they should be remorseful but what about the ones that pretend to be transparent and remorseful but truly aren't. Just because you say I'm sorry doesn't always mean you are."

 

AMEN to that!! Exactly how exOW was! She "said" she was "sorry" but her cruel, hurtful emails and stalking for Two years, "showed" otherwise.

And my H "showed" me he was happy w/me (after his trolly ride of course ) by ending the A w/her.

 

I think because my H had decided for himself before exOW outed the A to me that and after I allowed him home, most of what we talked about was what We Both Needed in our M to Both Be Happy.

 

Today We Show Each other and talk to each other about what we are doing that works and what needs improvement. It's actually pretty cool (now we are R'd) cause we talk and flirt all the time and stay up for hours laughing, talking, playing...

 

I don't look at him as a cheater, infidel, betrayer and liar anymore just a better version of the man I married**

 

Canuck, Thank You for understanding!

[Spark1111]

I agree somewhat and yes they should be remorseful but what about the ones that pretend to be transparent and remorseful but truly aren't. Just because you say I'm sorry doesn't always mean you are.

 

very true, but frankly Scarlett, I did not give a damn.

 

I gave him carte blanche to be with her and was ready to walk if there was a whiff of impropriety.

 

I had nothing left to lose and he knew it. he stuck to me like white on rice; calling, texting, and showing up when I was out with friends or family.

 

It felt different, when I cared enough to feel it. I loved him, but GOD knows it would be years before I felt I could trust him again.

[save150]

Using this logic, why would you ask a WS what they want to make them happy since their words can't be trusted?

 

That's where I am. Still can't trust him or believe his WORDS. Not after lying to me and the amount of deception he created to be with her.

 

Oh I asked. WHY? Was it me? TELL ME? And I got a variety of answers

 

"It was never you. You did nothing wrong"

"You were traveling too much."

"You were doing your own things too much"

"I don't know why I did it."

"You were spending too much time on the computer." (Freelance writing)

"It was an accident. She came on to me and I fell for it"

"She was really depressed. I felt bad for her. I have no idea why I let it get as far as it did."

 

I never got a consistent answer. So you know what? You're right. Why ask when all you will get is more lies. To protect me from the truth? Throw me off track?

 

I said this before somewhere. WH is as dumb as a door stop.

[Pierre]

I'm always curious how you know the A ended after dday?

 

YOu are judging people from your perspective.

[Pierre]

I agree somewhat and yes they should be remorseful but what about the ones that pretend to be transparent and remorseful but truly aren't. Just because you say I'm sorry doesn't always mean you are.

 

Again, this is your perspective, your world view.

[Confused48]

Back to the original question of the OP, no, I did not ask what WS wanted when I found out about the A. WS was, at first, all to eager to blame shift by telling me all the things I did and did not do for WS that were excuses for the A. This did not go well. If WS wanted me to do X to make the marriage better, I would do NOT x.

 

That being said, I did care about WS. I felt so bad when eventually WS was feeling pain. Even if it was just pain from missing the AP. At first that was all there was, no feelings for me. Just WS suffering for own loss. Selfish really. But none the less I felt so sad, so sorry for WS. I wished I could spare WS that terrible pain.

[Tau]

I'm a BH, whose Dday was within the last year and we didn't split.

 

I'm not sure what counts as a 'dust settling' stage, as it seems fairly perpetual.

 

But yes, after the initial period of my WS understanding the gravity of the situation, I did ask.

 

I've always loved her. Even after the A (though it's mired in such a thick vortex of emotion), her well-being was still almost instinctually a concern. That has waned somewhat as time as gone on.

 

We had many conversations about what we thought happiness was, what we wanted out of life.. how we had arrived at this place in life. It seemed important to know.

 

This woman I'd pledged my life to, who had previously been such an indivisible essence of the love,trust, and fulfillment portions of my psyche.. she deviated from the plans and commitments we'd made together. I figured if I was going to survive this hell, I wanted to make sure I would get everything out of it as a person that I could.

 

It's still important. Grow or die, they say.