To the point of desperation

[Blueknight01]

I am a first time poster but a long time reader of this forum. This will probably come across as very long winded and over critical of my wife, but I admit that I am a far from perfect husband.

 

 

I am 43 years old and my wife is 40. We have been married nearly 16 years (and in a relationship for nearly 17 years. We have three kids and should have a fantastic relationship; however I feel extremely lonely, resentful and frustrated most of the time. When we met, my wife was desperate to become a Mum and although I was also keen to enter the world of parenthood I was first and foremost after a strong loving relationship. (My parents have been happily married for 48 years and counting.) I remember early in our relationship that my wife said that had enough of sex and was mostly after companionship. She also said at the time that if she was not married by the time she turned 30, she would seek other means to do so. I overlooked this thinking that she must have been burnt in past relationships only to find that this is where her priorities appear to lie.

 

 

 

My wife is very attractive, intelligent, a good worker, keeps a great house and is a good Mum, but our relationship secondary to everything else in our lives. For many years, we have had sex an average of twice per month most of which involves missionary or her lying on her side and me entering ‘spoon style’. We occasionally do it doggie style and on rare occasions do it in the shower or her on top etc. I often have a lot of problems being premature simply because we do it so rarely so I can’t get into a rhythm. I am keen to issue oral favours for her but she does not really like that, nor does she reciprocate. I have received a blow job twice in 17 years and we have tried a 69 once. I have a much higher libido than my wife although I would probably be happy if we did it even twice a week if there was some variety and feeling in it.

 

 

 

My biggest gripe however; is that due to there being little in the way of sexual intimacy, we rarely give each other positive affirmation, or offer any touch or affection. In fact, we might go a month or two before we touch each other in any way. I am from a family used to affection whereas she has admitted to me that she was not brought up with much affection and is not used to it. I tried for many years to be affectionate etc but sick of getting a poor response, I basically gave up. My resentment and frustration have increased to the point where I have often contemplated exiting stage left, but for the fact that I live in vain hope that it will improve, also for the sake of the kids and because we are paying off a hefty mortgage with me as the main breadwinner.

Years ago my wife was diagnosed with polycystic ovaries and she has very heavy often irregular periods. She has seen various doctors to sort it out but has been told that everything is okay apart from low iron levels which now she is taking pills for. She is soon going to trial a hormonal implant to try and even things out in her cycle. Each afternoon after work, she arrives home, cooks tea and then flakes out in front of the TV until about 10pm when she goes to bed. Very little conversation is had apart from the news of the day etc. I have got so sick of the idiot box and lack of conversation that I mostly retire to the computer etc until I go to bed. Sex is never instituted at night and is mostly when waking up of a weekend or sneaking off to the shower etc.

 

 

 

Whenever I bring up the topic of our problems she rolls her eyes and says, ‘here we go again’ and makes me out to be self interested or whingeing. She has flatly rejected the idea of counselling.

 

 

 

I have not wanted to go down the divorce path but I don’t know what to do. I feel more lonely in my current marriage than if I was living on my own. I welcome any views on my dramas.

[janedoe67]

I don't have a magic answer because I have been in the same kind of marriage for a long time (except we haven't had sex in years). I had great examples growing up and his parents see marriage as basically a partnership to raise kids in.

 

I would say don't stop being honest about your needs, ask her to go to MC with you. And the biggest thing you need to know is that you need to be extremely careful around other women whether you think you would ever be capable of an affair or not. I never thought I would be but when someone offered me the attention and affection and all those things I was starving for I did and we are just now really working on the terrible wreckage. No matter how much of an answer to your terrible loneliness it might seem like it just makes everything worse. As much as you don;t want divorce when push comes to shove it would be better to do that than betray your vows.

[oldshirt]

Hate to break it to you like this but I have to be blunt and not beat around the bush or sugarcoat it. You wife does not find you sexually attractive and she does not desire you in a sexual manner. The monthly sex is likely when she is ovulating and her body is just telling her that she should be having real sex instead of just masturbating. She is probably only trying to throw you enough of bone now and then so you don't pack your bags and move on so you continue to help raise the kids and keep the house.

 

The desire she had was for other more sexually attractive and more sexually assertive dudes in her youth that pumped and dumped her, hence the "had enough sex.." comment. She basically got her thrills with the taller, studlier dudes in her youth and she was looking for a "nice guy" that would be a good father to her children and help her keep the house in order.

 

Sounds like she was never really into you and was just looking for a meal ticket and someone to help raise kids and pay for a house.

 

Bottom line is you have been played as a chump

 

SHE is NOT going to change and your marital situation is not going to change. From the way you have written this, it sounds like this was her plan right from the design stage so for you to think that this is all going to just magically change is a self-delusion on your part.

 

Here is you only hope. You cannot change her. Begging and pleading won't work. Threats won't work and you simply cannot try to rationalize this way and make her change by reasoning with her because chemistry and attraction are not choices and are anything but reasonable.

 

The only thing that will change her is to change yourself. If you start hitting the gym, losing weight, gaining muscle, start dressing better, start grooming and styling better and start becoming more socially connected and doing fun things with fun people and increasing your social and professional status it might make her take notice and she might become more sexually responsive to you.

 

HOWEVER THERE IS JUST AS GOOD OF CHANCE SHE WON'T.

 

But the good news is if you become better looking, fitter, more assertive, more sociable and raise your social and professional status, she may not notice or get attracted to you.......BUT SOMEONE ELSE WILL.

 

Once you get to a point where other attractive, desirable women start noticing and being attracted to you, then you will decide whether you want to keep her around or let her go and move on with your life.

 

The real key point here is you need to start building yourself up for YOU and not for her. Once you are fit and are pursuing passions and doing fun things with fun people, she might become attracted to you and want to be with you but you need to plan on that she won't and you need to do it for you.

 

She will fight this because she wants to keep her meal ticket and keep the roof over her head. But once you start to feel better about yourself and have other opportunities (many of which will be younger, prettier and more ambitious than her) at that point you simply decide whether you want to keep her around or move forward with your own life (which will include love and passion and intimacy:cool:)

[qwerty2013]

I wonder if you have tried rekindling the romance by dating each other again, making special efforts to take her out, etc.?

 

Don't do this for sex, but to simply connect with her again.

 

It sounds like your marriage has lost steam, but still sounds like a good marriage that needs a little push.

 

Women don't usually fall for the "stud" thing, really, we're not wired like men. However, a wonderful date and the feeling of closeness and connection will lead to feelings of intimacy. That could get you closer to your goal of more physical contact.

Edited June 23, 2013 by qwerty2013

[KatZee]

Has your sex life always been this bad?

 

I'm confused why you let things go on for 17 years if she was this ambivalent towards sex from day one.

 

A great relationship is one in which both people care about and try their best to meet the other's needs. It seems she doesn't care either way about your needs, what you want, or that you're unsatisfied.

 

The fact that she rolls your eyes and makes snarky comments when you try to communicate is also a huge indication that she doesn't even respect you.

 

Not only do you two not have any sexual connection, but the emotional and mental connection between you two is gone. She would rather just come home and stare at a TV instead of engage with you.

 

And the fact that she already said she would never go into counseling with you??? This woman doesn't care either way about this relationship. It sounds as if she's with you out of mere obligation at this point, not because she's in love or wants the marriage to work out.

[oldshirt]

 

. It seems she doesn't care either way about your needs, what you want, or that you're unsatisfied.

 

The fact that she rolls your eyes and makes snarky comments when you try to communicate is also a huge indication that she doesn't even respect you.

 

Not only do you two not have any sexual connection, but the emotional and mental connection between you two is gone. She would rather just come home and stare at a TV instead of engage with you.

 

And the fact that she already said she would never go into counseling with you??? This woman doesn't care either way about this relationship. It sounds as if she's with you out of mere obligation at this point, not because she's in love or wants the marriage to work out.

 

This is all true unfortunately. If she respected you and saw you as a virile man she would fear you would her tv-watching a$$ in the dust and take off with some young cutie that actually wants to have sex. She sees you as a big teddy bear that is a doormat that she can ignore and neglect without any consequences because she hasn't faced any consequences. she doesn't think you have it in you to leave or to find someone else.

 

And the fact that she won't lift a finger or go to counseling to help make your marriage more equitable or enjoyable for you means she doesn't care if you are happy or not as long as the mortgage keeps getting paid for and as long as the kids are taken care of.

 

All she cares about is the roof over her head, her lifestyle and the kids. You mean nothing to her other than a paycheck and assistant child raiser.

[oldshirt]

 

All she cares about is the roof over her head, her lifestyle and the kids.

 

 

So this is where you are going to have to strike to get her attention. You are going to have to lawyer up and get your financial and other ducks in a row and cut her off from her support and her house and her kids to get her attention.

 

If you have your ducks in a row and have your assets and your parental rights protected and have all the paperwork in order and have her served with papers showing her house is going to be gone and her meal ticket torn up and only have access to her kids on the days the custody decree says, then you will finally have her attention.

 

Now she will likely end up signing and moving on in the end but at least at that point she will respect you as a man taking action and she will have to take accountability that her actions lead things to this point.

[dichotomy]

Here is you only hope. You cannot change her. Begging and pleading won't work. Threats won't work and you simply cannot try to rationalize this way and make her change by reasoning with her because chemistry and attraction are not choices and are anything but reasonable.

 

The only thing that will change her is to change yourself. If you start hitting the gym, losing weight, gaining muscle, start dressing better, start grooming and styling better and start becoming more socially connected and doing fun things with fun people and increasing your social and professional status it might make her take notice and she might become more sexually responsive to you.

 

HOWEVER THERE IS JUST AS GOOD OF CHANCE SHE WON'T.

 

But the good news is if you become better looking, fitter, more assertive, more sociable and raise your social and professional status, she may not notice or get attracted to you.......BUT SOMEONE ELSE WILL.

 

Once you get to a point where other attractive, desirable women start noticing and being attracted to you, then you will decide whether you want to keep her around or let her go and move on with your life.

 

The real key point here is you need to start building yourself up for YOU and not for her. Once you are fit and are pursuing passions and doing fun things with fun people, she might become attracted to you and want to be with you but you need to plan on that she won't and you need to do it for you.

 

 

 

I endorse the majority of what is said here ! Get your life in order, try some new things, stop sitting around the house. Sitting around the home raising kids is what she wanted.

 

You should also consult a lawyer for advice.

 

A minor note - you don't talk much about your kids and your time or feelings about them and being a dad. Hows that part of your life - is your wife handling most of this?

Edited June 23, 2013 by dichotomy

[Blueknight01]

And the biggest thing you need to know is that you need to be extremely careful around other women whether you think you would ever be capable of an affair or not.

 

I agree wholeheartedly with this sentiment and I am aware of the pitfalls. In my loneliness I have been texting and on Facebook to female friends who are more than interested but I can see that getting involved with any of them would further complicate my situation and likely end up in complete disaster. I also would not want that becoming the excuse for the marriage ending. It is hard though when you realise how things could be.

[Blueknight01]

Hate to break it to you like this but I have to be blunt and not beat around the bush or sugarcoat it. You wife does not find you sexually attractive and she does not desire you in a sexual manner. The monthly sex is likely when she is ovulating and her body is just telling her that she should be having real sex instead of just masturbating. She is probably only trying to throw you enough of bone now and then so you don't pack your bags and move on so you continue to help raise the kids and keep the house.

 

The desire she had was for other more sexually attractive and more sexually assertive dudes in her youth that pumped and dumped her, hence the "had enough sex.." comment. She basically got her thrills with the taller, studlier dudes in her youth and she was looking for a "nice guy" that would be a good father to her children and help her keep the house in order.

 

Sounds like she was never really into you and was just looking for a meal ticket and someone to help raise kids and pay for a house.

 

Bottom line is you have been played as a chump

you.

 

 

 

Although this is difficult to read your views you are sadly probably right. I have been brought up without much divorce in my family and so I tend to think that I would not consider it unless I was sure that I could not stand the misery any more. I would prefer for her to not iron my shirts, cook dinner or do any of that sort of stuff and just have a healthy love life than the situation I am in at present. I would like to think that I am not asking too much to want these things.

[janedoe67]

I agree wholeheartedly with this sentiment and I am aware of the pitfalls. In my loneliness I have been texting and on Facebook to female friends who are more than interested but I can see that getting involved with any of them would further complicate my situation and likely end up in complete disaster. I also would not want that becoming the excuse for the marriage ending. It is hard though when you realise how things could be.

 

Trust me, as much as it will stink to hear this: you need to STOP talking with these women. No personal sharing and one on one messaging with them. I hate to say that I know this the hard way. No matter how much you think it will just be a boost to make you feel better....it is just a matter of time before the "perfect storm" makes taking the next step easier. Find some really good guy friends who have good character, be frank with your wife and let her know just how serious this is, and shore up the boundaries times 100. I wish someone had told me that years ago.

[Blueknight01]

I wonder if you have tried rekindling the romance by dating each other again, making special efforts to take her out, etc.

 

I have tried to suggest taking her out to dinner etc but she is also paranoid about leaving the kids alone or getting a babysitter. I actually said we need to go out at least once a month but it just does not happen. We went together to my work Christmas party in December last year and then to a 40th birthday about a month ago but that's been it. I am a shift worker and I will admit that this can make it difficult to organise some things, but between looking after the kids and her being tired and just wanting to watch TV or the movies all the time the status quo remains. I would be happy to put an axe through the box and ban all electronic devices as I think they are a big part of the problem.

 

Despite saying this I will try and talk to her again to get something going.

[Blueknight01]

Has your sex life always been this bad?

 

I'm confused why you let things go on for 17 years if she was this ambivalent towards sex from day one.

 

Our sex life is in accordance with when she wants it. When we have discussed this topic she has basically made me out to be needy and whingeing. Instead of taking a real stand I have just sucked it up and put up with it thinking its just the way it is and have learned to bottle up my frustration and resentment. Some people on these forums talk about their partners having a low libido and being asexual and I think that maybe she is one of those people who can just take it or leave it.

[Blueknight01]

And the fact that she won't lift a finger or go to counseling to help make your marriage more equitable or enjoyable for you means she doesn't care if you are happy or not as long as the mortgage keeps getting paid for and as long as the kids are taken care of.

 

I think she knows that a counsellor would be somewhat critical of what has been happening. She basically says that counselling is a waste of time.

[Blueknight01]

A minor note - you don't talk much about your kids and your time or feelings about them and being a dad. Hows that part of your life - is your wife handling most of this?

 

We both spend a lot of time with the kids and both love them to death. We share running around with them for sport and school functions etc so that is not a problem. I just mostly feel like a room mate who shares responsibility for 3 kids.

[Blueknight01]

Trust me, as much as it will stink to hear this: you need to STOP talking with these women. No personal sharing and one on one messaging with them.

 

This is also probably great advice but at least talking to normal functioning women makes me feel wanted and better overall and it gives me an outlet to vent my frustrations.

[Blueknight01]

A divorce would be too expensive so you need to start screwing around on the side.

 

Don't get caught.

 

 

Thought about that but I am the sort of bloke who would invariably get caught and that would justify what has been happening. It would end up in disaster.

[janedoe67]

This is also probably great advice but at least talking to normal functioning women makes me feel wanted and better overall and it gives me an outlet to vent my frustrations.

 

I know....I know. But trust me - IF you are an honorable person of conscience then having an affair will make you feel miles worse than you feel now.

[Blueknight01]

I know....I know. But trust me - IF you are an honorable person of conscience then having an affair will make you feel miles worse than you feel now.

 

I am not looking to have an affair - this whole saga has put me off relationships altogether at this point in time. If I actually make the leap and leave at the moment I think I will just stay solo for some time and avoid the hassle. Either that or I will cut loose and shag everything that moves to get my mojo back.

 

No seriously I don't want things to get more complicated than what they are already.

[oldshirt]

I think she knows that a counsellor would be somewhat critical of what has been happening. She basically says that counselling is a waste of time.

 

It is a waste of time for her. She is already happy and satisfied with the marriage the way it is. She has her meal ticket, someone paying for the roof over her head and someone helping her raise her children.

 

You are the one that is unhappy and she sees your issues as you being needy and whining.

 

She doesn't want a sexlife with you so she is perfectly happy not to have one. There is no need for her to spend the time and money going to counseling because she is not the one with the complaint.

 

As I said before you have to hit her where she does have an interest and that is her income, her home and her children. She will only consider your dissatisfaction when she realizes she will lose her house, her income and the access she has to her children.

 

At that time she may decide that she can live without your money, living in the current house and can live with having the kids according to the custodial arraingement. She may decide she can live with those things as long as she doesn't have to have sex with you.

 

Or she may decide that a little duty sex is worth keeping all of those things.

 

But in order to get to that point she has to realize that she really will lose those things if she doesn't address your needs.

 

The catch her for you is it has to be real. You truly actually have to be at the point you are sincerely ready, willing and able to send her packing. Anything less and it is just an idle threat and a manipulation and if you fall short on that she will call your bluff and you will lose your balls forever and she will know that she has you beat and that you are spineless and unable to do anything about it and what little drips of sexuality you have in your marriage now will dry up completely for good.

[Blueknight01]

Or she may decide that a little duty sex is worth keeping all of those things.

 

Duty sex does not do it for me. If there's no passion its hardly worth the effort I think. Yesterday after not having much to do with me the whole day she invited me out of the blue to join her in the shower. As tempting as it was I said, 'No thanks I'm right' because one frolic in the shower on a rare occasion or a rare lazy moment in bed is becoming very tiresome.

 

I agree with your other sentiments though. I have brought up the topic of these issues with her a number of times before stating that the situation is beyond ****ful; however nothing has ever really changed so think its time to have that conversation again and lay it on the line. As there is never a big enough single issue to bring it up over, only lots of minor issues, it is not easy bringing it up but I understand this is what I need to do.

[Untouchable_Fire]

I think she knows that a counsellor would be somewhat critical of what has been happening. She basically says that counselling is a waste of time.

 

A sexless marriage is a waste of time... counseling is worthwhile.

 

I can't really provide much advice... but I will say that I lived in your situation for a short few years. We had a good sex life until the wedding day and then almost nothing after.

 

The most interesting thing is that when I packed my stuff and left, she begged me back... and our sex life was amazing for about 3 months. Every night or every other night. Then it went back to nothing and I left for good. I've heard similar stories from both women and men... there is something very attractive about a spouse willing to leave.

[xxoo]

If your wife won't go to counseling, go alone. Get some help sorting out your thoughts and fears, and planning your next step (rather than falling into an affair that "just happened" and makes you the bad guy).

 

Why did you marry a woman who told you directly that she'd had enough sex???

[MidwestUSA]

She can get rid of those nasty periods via hysterectomy. Has anyone suggested it? Keeping the ovaries, if they aren't too horribly cystic, will prevent instant menopause. Or there is hormone replacement therapy. Best decision I ever made. Probably won't kindle an interest in sex on her part, as someone else said, she made it clear up front she was done with that. Did you think things would improve?

[Leigh 87]

It is her fault really. As much as it is yours. For not leaving sooner.

 

You are obviously sexually into her and like her somewhat. Not sure you are in love with her; a woman who acts the way she does towards you. She is not living life to the fullest by going and getting a partner she is even sexually attracted to. You must not fully respect her either. For staying in this loveless and joyless marriage.

 

In this day and age, not many decent and quality women that have self respect and options in dating, would WANT to settle for a man they do not feel sexually attracted to.

 

She is not sexually into you. It us HER stupid fault that she was stupid enough to settle for a joyless and virtually sexless marriage, just so she could have kids and a family and a house.

 

There is now way in hell I would settle for ANY relationship, where we did not feel mutually in love. On a deep level. And with amazing sex. Albeit not always frequent as time went on.

 

Really. Something is very wrong with the both of you, in that you settled for THIS.

 

This is a marriage by convention. It is NOT a union of mutual love and joy.

 

You CAN NEVER make a person fall in love with you. Ever.

 

Nothing can save your marriage. Sorry.

 

You can save yourselves though. You can actually be happy. Imagine being IN love with a woman, who feels the same way about you?