Trusting when there is no evidence on which to

[MissVivacious]

I am a lawyer and I believe in evidence. This is a good thing in my work life. it doesn't seem to be working in my personal. It is the only way I know how to operate. Has any one got any suggestions on alternatives. For example in the culture in which I live it is without question universal that when you meet someone new and you seem to get on, they will say we should meet for a coffee. But then they don't ask for your number or arrange a date for meeting. This leads me to distrust the person and any liking I have for they goes out of the window. How do I get past this issue? To me, why say you want to meet someone when you don't. I don't know you and you don't owe me anything I didn't force you to say anything. But once you say something you do not mean I think that is what you are like. What else do I have to go on. It is hard evidence of your fickleness. I know I am being harsh because people tell me I am but when I say it is all the evidence I have to go on, they cannot tell me what else I should go on. Why would I give that person a chance and speak with them again. Why would I trust anything else they say?

[salparadise]

Oh Wow! Where to start? Volumes have been written on these ideas.

 

For starters, I think you should draw no conclusions whatsoever from minuscule, isolated data points. IOW, don't make assumptions and don't attribute motive when you don't have conclusive evidence.

 

There is an area of research, transactional analysis, that dissects and analyzes communication patterns. When people communicate they have certain expectations as to the response they'd like to receive. The narrower the range of acceptable responses, the more likely a person is to be disappointed, and the broader the range the more likely they are to have a productive dialog and develop good rapport. People who are the most healthy and successful in the social realm tend to have the broadest range of expectations.

 

Trust in interpersonal relations has been modeled using game theory. Trust is based on confirmation of reciprocal altruism. It starts by a person trusting that if they give something to another person, the other will give something back of slightly greater value, and the take turns giving and increasing value as trust builds. This value can simply be validation or affirmation. But in order for it to work, most people have to be willing to be the first to give, meaning they accept the initial risk based on the concept that most people willingly reciprocate. Human interaction is base on this system. But the system thrives only when the vast majority reciprocate as opposed to taking the initial offering and giving nothing back. It's modeled by a game called tit for tat (google it).

 

That's a lot of words to say basically, lower expectations and always reciprocate generously. So when you the guy asks about coffee, perhaps you should consider reciprocating with something like, "great, I'm free Thursday afternoon." If they aren't feeling the enthusiasm coming back then perhaps their subconscious is whispering, game over.

 

All of this stuff goes on subconsciously and is extremely nuanced. But based on what you posted, I think it's possible that you're failing to sustain the familiar pattern of reciprocity, and that you have a fairly narrow range of expectations in terms of expected responses.

[MissVivacious]

Thanks salparadise. So much of what you have written is fascinating. I am bowled over with the generosity of your reply. Thank you for the things you said. I will think about them. But I wonder if you can help me with another question, that is how does one deal with the inevitable rejection that comes from giving of yourself to someone a stranger who doesn't know you but does not reciprocate and keep doing this when all the evidence is suggesting that you are not getting what you want back. Especially where there is little love and care in your life and never has been. I ask the question because when I was younger I did give a lot, and when I didn't get back it hurts a lot and I haven't healed from this because I am still searching for people to connect with. everyone seems to already have someone in their life and does not need more and I feel I have been deprived for a long time.

[salparadise]

Ah, good questions...

 

I read your other thread and understand the context a bit better. You mentioned living in a different culture from the one into which you were born, and being different from most people where you are. More insight would perhaps allow me to view things from your perspective, but I will try to concentrate on that which we all have in common.

 

It's not hard to see that you are a rational person trying to make sense of some of life's most perplexing quandaries. Sometimes you can logically understand things and find that merely sorting them into proper categories, or identifying causal relationships, is not the same as changing for the better. But you can use rational thought to enhance awareness, guide and direct emotions in healthy, productive ways. It obviously helps to understand where you are and in what ways you wish to change.

 

how does one deal with the inevitable rejection that comes from giving of yourself to someone a stranger who doesn't know you but does not reciprocate and keep doing this when all the evidence is suggesting that you are not getting what you want back?

 

The short answer is to be less invested in getting someone to give you what you want, less prone toward interpreting the inevitable disappointment as personal rejection, and learn to separate who you are from the egoic structures within that produce emotional responses to perceptions of having been disrespected in some way.

 

Especially where there is little love and care in your life and never has been. I ask the question because when I was younger I did give a lot, and when I didn't get back it hurts a lot and I haven't healed from this because I am still searching for people to connect with.

 

I cannot begin to imagine how difficult it must be to have never been loved. I sincerely hope that you have been loved enough to feel what love is, and have a foundation for being able to generously give and receive love.

 

It's apparent that you have experienced your share of pain (as we all do), and I think continue to hold onto it, perhaps even identifying with it to some degree. The key is learning to let it go––understanding that while it will always be a part of our experience, it is not who we are and it does not have to define us or color our interactions and emotional responses. That doesn't mean deny or suppress, but coexist peacefully in a way renders it mostly harmless. Envision it as white clouds floating by that you acknowledge and then forget about as you carry on with good intentions that exist in a different realm.

 

Eckhart Tolle's book "A New Earth" deals with understanding and taming both the Ego and Pain-Body. He is Christian, and there are a few references throughout, but the book does not rely on religion and is not evangelical. It is spiritual wisdom, a lot of which can be found in Buddhist teachings and other philosophies as well. I suggest you read it, and refer to it often. In fact, my copy is now in front of me and I think I will read it again. You could find it transformative.

Edited June 23, 2013 by salparadise

[MissVivacious]

Ok salparadise, more context. I am black African racially but I was born and brought up in London. My parents are Anglophiles and. Did not want us to spend time with people if our own colour and background who they perceived as lesser in some way. There's colonialism still living and working for you. Consequently most of my friends and almost every man I have been date with has been white. This is not to say I don't find black men attractive. I do and I have dated one who j really liked. My parents were very harsh and big disciplinarians. My goal for most if my life was to please them. Impossible. Took me a long time to work out. I was also a committed Christian until I was 30. I took it vet seriously and in particular I was a virgin until I was 35. I realise now I was and am emotionally immature for someone of my age. My mother in particular, would physically abuse me and my sisters when we lived at home. My tactic was to pretend it didn't hurt until it didn't hurt. I made this decision when u was 7 years old. I think I have been paying for it since. In the last 4 years I have been on so many first dates and then they never want to see me after the first date. Most recently I managed to get beyond date one and date someone for a few months but then he changed his mind and said he wasn't feeling it. So I have a problem with connecting with a man. I have no brothers and went girls only school. I had no interest in men until I was 18 and no desire to have sex til I was 30. I mention these things for context I am not sure that they make a difference.

[Ripnet]

Let me ask you this what does your mother mean to you? Do you feel rejected by your parents?

[MissVivacious]

Very much so. I feel she doesn't accept me for who I am. My dad less so he is always telling me that he is disappointed in me. But I do believe now that he loves me. He has always been there for me. Even when my parents divorced he use to take me and my sister out. Those were the best times in my childhood. My parent remarried each other again. They have been married to each other 3 times !

[MissVivacious]

Oops I forgot to answer what my mother means to me. Not a lot really. She is hard work impossible to make happy. Doesn't change though she claims too. Don't really get anything positive from our relationship. Try to have as little contact with her as I can.

[Ripnet]

Do you blame her for anything? If you could express your feelings to your mother what would you say?

[MissVivacious]

I use to blame her for a lot of things but not anymore. I've gotten over it now. I have expressed my feelings to her many a time. So I really don't have anything else to say to her.

[Ripnet]

Ok what did you blame her for?

[MissVivacious]

My emotional immaturity. Not giving me the real life skills I needed to deal with life's disappointments and to build resilience. But you can give what you don't have. She doesn't have those skills. Pointless blaming her. I have learnt a few now, so it doesn't matter.

[Ripnet]

How did you become a lawyer?

[Serendiptiy_2]

Sometimes, people are generally busy, lack the ability to subscribe to normalitve social codes (coffee, phone number) or they are just rude.

 

Either way, I do believe the choice lies within YOU to accept or reject the behavior.

 

I usually believe in the 3-strikes rule. Give the benefit of the doubt (1), allow for slip up, with explanation (2), be done (3).

[Serendiptiy_2]

Also, would you be open to discussing this in therapy? I had a friend with a BPD mom who really stunted her emotional maturity. While very successful, it wasn't until she did some intense work that she was able to move past it and grow.

[MissVivacious]

Not sure what you mean by "how" did I become a lawyer, but I'll answer it they way I think you are getting at. My parents made me think that it was what I was suppose to do. If I became a barrister I thought that they would be proud if me. So they believed in me and I believe in me because they did. By the way they didn't have a clue what it involved. I found out for myself. I was lucky to be bright enough to pass the exams and I made an effort to get the right experience ( I thought). It is very competitive and soul destroying for the redolent let alone those with non or little resilience. It was a constant struggle not academically but to get my training and get a job. The academic part was not the hard part at all.

[MissVivacious]

Thank you Serendipity_2. What is. BPD? And what type of therapy? I have had counselling. Didn't help at all. Life coaching for about 10 sessions. Very helpful. Did the mother thing, which is why I am over it.

[salparadise]

MissV, thanks for the additional info. It's all relevant. Your childhood experience included a lot of non-acceptance. Acceptance was given for accomplishment rather than unconditionally, just for who you are. It was traumatic and you developed coping strategies to suppress and avoid pain. It is generally thought that one of the most important aspects of a child's development is unconditional love and acceptance, especially through the relationship with the mother. It enables fundamental acceptance of one's self, the ability to be content, confident, resilient, and master each of the subsequent stages of development. This relationship is how a child acquires a solid, unshakable identity and belief in herself... that she is inherently competent, good, lovable, and develops an instinctive ability to self-affirm and meet life's many challenges with confidence, mastery and poise.

 

Freud pioneered the concept of the early maternal relationship as key to successfully progressing through the five stages of psycho-sexual development. Of course, many of Freud's notions have long since been superseded, so I wouldn't suggest delving into his stuff, but the point is that maternal bonding is considered an essential springboard. You went on to say that you recognize that you are emotionally immature, so this is consistent with analytic theories of arrested development or regression. I'm not making any declarative statements, just pointing out a few correlations.

 

The Anglophile mentality your parents were stuck on almost certainly reinforced insecurities with regard to self-acceptance. Having no opposite sex siblings and attending all girls schools also makes it more difficult to relate to the opposite sex since you simply had no opportunity to integrate how it all works. The fact that your parents divorced and remarried three times makes it apparent that they had little ability to model a loving, functional relationship for you. It's unfortunate that you missed out on so much. Your parents were probably doing the very best they knew how to do, trying to make you competent and strong. They just didn't know how. They probably suffered from some of the same issues.

 

You said, "I mention these things for context I am not sure that they make a difference," and "did the mother thing, which is why I am over it." As insightful as you are in many ways, these two statements suggest a certain naivete'. It's interesting that you at once divulge such particularly relevant information and discount it's relevance. Getting over the mother thing is not easy, and certainly not something you can just decide you're over now. It's a process that requires patience, persistence and skillful guidance.

 

I support Serendipity's suggestion that you consider going to therapy to work through these issues. You've probably constructed barriers (defense mechanisms) to protect yourself from the painful early experiences. Guiding you through the process of healing the pain, dissolving the barriers, and blossoming to become the best you can be will require a skilled professional, so do the research and get recommendations. They may want to do some testing before deciding what type of therapy would be most beneficial. You should probably be thinking in terms of a longer process of continual improvement rather than a fix that will occur in a few sessions. It takes awhile to establish a solid therapeutic relationship, another reason that you want to find the right therapist and not waste time going from one to another.

 

In your other thread someone mentioned that competent professional women need to step away from their masculine energy in romantic relationships, and I think that's pretty insightful. I'm thinking that some combination of this masculine energy and potential barriers as mentioned above could be causing you to hold men at arm's length even though your desire is intimacy.

Edited June 26, 2013 by salparadise

[Ripnet]

Your issue is your mom not the men. You reject men by tone of voice, or body language. I can assure that's what's happening. You need to get therapy and resolve feelings about your mother.