How Cliche Can It Get?

June 25, 2013

This is the direction I'm going, more than likely.

I feel that you describe my feelings for my H accurately. As to my AP not cheating? We did do things while he was dating her (I only saw him once in their entire relationship, due to distance), but he was more conflicted (she texted him right after we'd been kissing). When he started dating her, it was decided we wouldn't continue the affair. He was a couple of months into their relationship, it was long-distance, and she had been showing signs of ending it; I think, given that, he jumped the gun, and decided he felt more strongly for me. At the end, she manipulated him, and he talked to her less and less.

It's certainly not a true cut and dried tell-tale but I think it's at the very least interesting that even his relationship with this woman was well? At a distance. Maybe, it means nothing. Certainly, he could have just had feelings for her and circumstances happened to be that they were long distance. It's at least worth taking a look at though in the context of 1. His involvement with you; a woman who is married so not completely available. 2. His involvement with her; a long distance relationship. It could all be innocent enough, or it could be establishing a pattern. Do you know his past history of relationships? Has he had close-proximity relationships that didn't involve any element of unavailability or long-distance, prior? I'm lacking alot of context on the guy.

I asked him about that. He's not interested in anyone else, as far as relationships go. Right now, he's focused on other matters (to do with housing), and while that issue is still unresolved, further talk of us has been postponed. Until his housing issue came up, (which you can find detailed in earlier posts), he was adamant about me moving there. I was starting to make preparations, but a wrench was thrown in the works.

I have to play devil's advocate here. The housing situation may be legit. But, it may not be either. There are people who crave the elements of a relationship but for whatever x,y,z reason they just can't handle the full enchilada of a relationship. I think as time progresses you'll certainly know whether it is a true case of a housing stall, or not. As I mentioned earlier, some context might help paint a more full picture.

In regards to this, see previous statement on both our relations, and arrangements of being together. I see where you might get that impression, but I assure you, we've had serious talks about being together. We have been temporarily way-laid, but it's something we both will revisit when he takes care of the housing issue.

Serious talks are infantile. Serious action on the other hand speaks volumes. Again, in the months to come I think things are going to reveal themselves more true to light. And, it's certainly still every bit possible that he's ready to commit to you, to have a serious relationship full on. The red flags are just that; they're flagging something for further inspection. That doesn't mean that what they flag can't ultimately turn out for the better in this case.

I fear you, like many, have misinterpreted, or missed some, of what I said. He hasn't been doing the push-pull. He's actually ended the affair a couple of times in the interest of not putting me through this. These occurred when he had nothing to lose or gain from the situation.

I must have missed something, and if so I'm sorry about that. I think I decided to reply after the end of the first page just so I wouldn't lose my train of thought lol. The fact that he's tried to end the affair a few times actually only compels my feeling about what's going on here. But, it doesn't mean my impression is correct. As I've already said; time will reveal all.

That is my hope, but regardless, the end result will still comprise of me divorcing my H. I'm aware of the risk I'm taking, which is why my AP is not the primary reason behind my decision to leave. If it works with us, I'll be happy. If not, it will undoubtedly hurt, but it will be a learning experience.

I understand full well why you want to end your marriage. I'm certainly not trying to imply I think you should stay in your marriage because things won't work out this new guy. I realize that there are valid reasons the marriage should not have taken place and why you want to end it. Edited June 25, 2013 by hoping2heal

June 25, 2013

Girl, don't even think of starting something with other man until you get lots of help for yourself. The odds are against your new boyfriend and you working out, it's under 10%. If the decision has been made to walk out on your marriage than do so but leave your husband some dignity. I live outside of Calgary and right now there are a lot of military guys helping with the devastating flooding that has occurred here, we owe them a lot. When I saw a convoy of green military trucks rushing to get to where they are needed, helicopters flying overhead, I thought about you and your husband and it made me sad for your daughter. I thought about the people that will be coming into her life, a new step dad, a new step mom, new grand parents, nothing will be simple anymore. God help her if you both decide to have children with your new spouses, guess who suffers? You need to tell your husband the truth, that it was physical, he needs to get checked out because he too has indirectly slept with other man. You, your husband and your daughter are all going to hurt badly, get help, the military has services you can take advantage of.

June 25, 2013

Rebel,

After reading the post from alive again I was reminded of the child in your situation. Reminded that this guy will not only be entering into a relationship with you, but your child also. I know you mentioned living with him but I strongly suggest you re-evaluate that. Just because you knew him from high school doesn't mean you know him all that well. I have reconnected with old friends from high school (not romantically) people I spent well over a decade of my life with and for the most part, they are all different people now and it threw me for a loop getting to know the new person.

Does this man have children of his own? I don't recall reading he did so I wanted to ask for clarification. He doesn't actually know how he is going to rise to the challenge of your daughter anymore than you do and I think it is just way, way too early for you to decide to move your daughter in with person when you haven't spent time with the three of you (unless you have?) consistently over a period of time to see how they adjust to one another. So should you decide to date this man after you move then do, but really put the brakes on and stop and think about what you're willing to introduce your daughter to on such limited information.

June 25, 2013

Rebel, my one piece of advice, ending your marriage should not hinge on the OM and whether you guys are going to be together. One is not synonymous with the other. End the marriage on the merits of the marriage. But do not put strings onto the other relationship. If it works, it works, but it needs to be assessed independent and you need to be willing to walk away from both to make sure you are making the right decision on each relationship.

End the marriage for you because it is the right thing for that relationship. Be okay with the idea that you could be alone and you are okay with that. If you can't/don't want to, then focus on the marriage, resolve the issues and give it a fair shot.

June 25, 2013

Rebel, my one piece of advice, ending your marriage should not hinge on the OM and whether you guys are going to be together. One is not synonymous with the other. End the marriage on the merits of the marriage. But do not put strings onto the other relationship. If it works, it works, but it needs to be assessed independent and you need to be willing to walk away from both to make sure you are making the right decision on each relationship.

End the marriage for you because it is the right thing for that relationship. Be okay with the idea that you could be alone and you are okay with that. If you can't/don't want to, then focus on the marriage, resolve the issues and give it a fair shot.

Don't worry, my decision isn't hinging on that fact; as I've already stated, the D is something that needs to be done for a myriad of reasons:

1) When I got back together with my husband (my then fiancé), I think it was a move made out of fear, confusion, and a need to really try to work things out between us, and for our daughter.

2) I kept holding on, thinking I could turn things around, but the longer we've been back together, the more apparent it is that my heart just isn't in it. I was trying to be strong enough, but it was for the wrong reasons.

3) Marriage occurred for the wrong reasons, as well. A fact that's not lost on my husband. However, I feel the most responsible, because I'm the one who was already dealing with conflicting feelings before it occurred.

4) The affair does play its part, but the issues my husband and I have been dealing with over all these years (my ambivalence) is the primary reason.

I have no intention of jumping right into a relationship with my AP. Initially when he made the offer for me to move in, I didn't say yes, and I didn't say no. I told him preparation would be required. I brought up the whole living arrangement/adjusting thing as well, specifically to do with my daughter. I can honestly say that he probably wasn't thinking entirely straight, spurned by him wanting to be with me.

Since the housing issue came up, we both agreed that if/when I divorce, I will find my own place, apart from him. I'm going to need time to adapt to the changes, as will my daughter. I know that I won't be able to jump right into a relationship with him, and it's better that I don't. Not until we're both ready.

June 25, 2013

Girl, don't even think of starting something with other man until you get lots of help for yourself. The odds are against your new boyfriend and you working out, it's under 10%. If the decision has been made to walk out on your marriage than do so but leave your husband some dignity. I live outside of Calgary and right now there are a lot of military guys helping with the devastating flooding that has occurred here, we owe them a lot. When I saw a convoy of green military trucks rushing to get to where they are needed, helicopters flying overhead, I thought about you and your husband and it made me sad for your daughter. I thought about the people that will be coming into her life, a new step dad, a new step mom, new grand parents, nothing will be simple anymore. God help her if you both decide to have children with your new spouses, guess who suffers? You need to tell your husband the truth, that it was physical, he needs to get checked out because he too has indirectly slept with other man. You, your husband and your daughter are all going to hurt badly, get help, the military has services you can take advantage of.

I'm not planning on jumping right into anything with AP. There was talk of moving in with him, but since the housing issue came up, we decided a slower, smarter approach was required. I think originally it was his urgency that made him suggest it. I don't think he's pulling away, now that he's had time to really think about it, but I think he's thinking more clearly.

June 25, 2013

Oh, man Rebel-Dynasty, we are in the same boat!!! I think I figured out why my H left the marital bed over a fight about politics. I've been trickle-truthing him about the A, as you've been, and he, being NOT weak and NOT needy, is withdrawing his love. Could be that your husband withdraws HIS passion to protect himself too. Too proud to admit he senses real competition, too ashamed/sickened/angry to fight for your love.

I don't think that's the case. Our lack of passion has been going on much longer than the affair.

I really hate the fact that I've been trickle-truthing him (a phrase that until on LS, I knew nothing about), but it's something I will be correcting.

A fight about politics? Literally, or in the metaphorical sense?

June 25, 2013

It's certainly not a true cut and dried tell-tale but I think it's at the very least interesting that even his relationship with this woman was well? At a distance. Maybe, it means nothing. Certainly, he could have just had feelings for her and circumstances happened to be that they were long distance.

He had been friends with her for about eighteen years or so. I'm not sure if he used to live where she lived, or if she moved there in more recent years. Anyway, they were friends, and would visit each other on occasion. He told me they had feelings for each other off and on (I'm wondering if it was a push-pull thing) but until they officially dated, they never interacted outside of friendship. Her son also adored him, so he'd spend time playing with the kid, while she had some personal time. I think dating may have ruined their friendship.

It's at least worth taking a look at though in the context of 1. His
involvement with you; a woman who is married so not completely available. 2. His
involvement with her; a long distance relationship. It could all be innocent
enough, or it could be establishing a pattern. Do you know his past history of
relationships? Has he had close-proximity relationships that didn't involve any
element of unavailability or long-distance, prior? I'm lacking alot of context
on the guy.

Aside from myself and his most recent ex, all of his other relationships were close proximity. He's even lived with a couple of them. One was cheating and left (good gods, the irony is thick), and another simply left, and wound up with his best friend. I don't know the stories about every single one, however. Like I said, I know relationships either work or fall apart, and that it takes two to decide that.

I have to play devil's advocate here. The housing situation may be legit. But,
it may not be either. There are people who crave the elements of a relationship
but for whatever x,y,z reason they just can't handle the full enchilada of a
relationship. I think as time progresses you'll certainly know whether it is a
true case of a housing stall, or not. As I mentioned earlier, some context might
help paint a more full picture.

The housing issue is legit. Sorry for not giving further detail; I felt like I was already writing tomes, here. Anyway, the issue is this: When we initially had that discussion, he checked it out with his room-mate to make sure he was kosher with it. The room-mate was; in fact, I've talked to the room-mate, and he confirmed that he brought it up to my AP.

Now, said room-mate has a girlfriend; she moved in too early in their relationship, and moved out (thus why space was available for me). However, the room-mate is still with his gf. Well, she got pregnant. So the room-mate decided he needs to move out (by the end of August) to step up for his gf and the baby-to-be. This was at the beginning of this month.

Because AP can't afford to keep the apartment on his own, he either has to find another room-mate (or two; it's a three bedroom), or find a new place to live. Understandably, this takes precedence over our talks of being together. I honestly see it as fortunate, because if it hadn't happened like that, I may have moved in too early, despite how he felt.

We both reflected on the matter, and realized it's better for me to get my own place and work through the adaption process, first. I should explain that some of our conversations, in the heat of the moment, do get re-evaluated later on, when we've both given it serious thought.

So no, I won't jump right into something with him, after the divorce. I know my daughter and I will need time to adjust, and the AP and her need to get to know each other in baby steps.

Serious talks are infantile. Serious action on the other hand speaks volumes.
Again, in the months to come I think things are going to reveal themselves more
true to light. And, it's certainly still every bit possible that he's ready to
commit to you, to have a serious relationship full on. The red flags are just
that; they're flagging something for further inspection. That doesn't mean that
what they flag can't ultimately turn out for the better in this case.

I understand that, which is why I've taken no offense. I came to this board to get second opinions, and I'm getting just that.

I must have missed something, and if so I'm sorry about that. I think I decided
to reply after the end of the first page just so I wouldn't lose my train of
thought lol.

Lol, it's understandable; there is a lot to read; it's easier to break it down, bit-by-bit, than to tackle it all at once.

I understand full well why you want to end your marriage. I'm certainly not trying to imply I think you should stay in your marriage because things won't work out this new guy. I realize that there are valid reasons the marriage should not have taken place and why you want to end it.

Thank you for understanding. The decision to divorce still doesn't come easy, but when I get right down to the heart of it, I know it's the right thing to do. I really want to work out a better custody plan, so that my H and my daughter still get to interact as much as possible.

June 25, 2013

I know that some of you say that my age doesn't matter, but if you think it somehow impacts things, I'll put the ages on the table.

I'm 26.

My husband is 27.

My AP is turning 28 this year.

June 25, 2013

I know that some of you say that my age doesn't matter, but if you think it somehow impacts things, I'll put the ages on the table.

I'm 26.

My husband is 27.

My AP is turning 28 this year.

AP has been your second sexual experience. So I assume that for you sex means a lot and it is not something very special to you. Therefore, you are probably in a high level of emotional connection with OM. You were pretty deep into OM to have sex with him and perhaps even deeper to justify the extramarital sex.

Within this context there is no way in heaven you are going to feel any romance for your H. As you said, he is prpbably annoying to you even if he is behaving nicely.

So you have created a situation where you must go to bed to with a man you feel repulsion and to make matters worse the OM you love is unavailable and has to hide from your H. This is so-called love of your life must be kept a secret from your H. Why us that? Why did you create this chaos?

What can of a man allows himself to be a secret? Why does he hide behind your skirt? What kind of a man behaves in that manner? I ask because that is one of the reasons I never had a full blown EMR. The act of hiding is repulsive and degrading.

Your OM is not exactly a high quality man and you are about to make a trade here. You are willing to leave your H for this man. I suggest you leave your H and also dump the OM, he is up to no good.

June 25, 2013

I'm glad to hear you plan on doing baby steps with daughter and making custody a priority. Is it absolutely essential that you move so far away from her Father? I know you said he's in the military so how much time do they spend interacting right now? I'm not sure how many/long the absences are so you moving might be just her normalcy.

I wanted to also add that because of her age, she is at a very critical moment in her development. That is fact, not opinion. Again, I'm not at all implying you need to stay married but just continue to put her relationship with her Father at a very high priority because it could certainly create a myriad of issues that may not be so obvious until she becomes older but will be pretty profound no less. Likewise, I hope her Father will continue to do the same for her.

June 25, 2013

This will be my last post so as not to seem like I'm harping at you or anything. I mean everything in the sincerest way, with nothing but hope for the best for all involved.

When I gave the opinion that NOW was the time to leave, I meant NOW. Like right now. Shut off the computer, go tell your husband everything, and end this relationship.

You seem to be posting and responding quite a bit here which leads me to believe on some level you "enjoy" (maybe wrong word) the drama. You want to compare notes with other posters and lament in your history of poor choices. I think that time should be over. Get up and go.

At the very least make a concrete list towards leaving immediately. Tell yourself: "After daughter goes to bed I'm going to tell H everything." Figure out what order you will disclose everything and how you envision the next week, month, and year of your new lives.

NOW. Go now.

June 25, 2013

This will be my last post so as not to seem like I'm harping at you or anything. I mean everything in the sincerest way, with nothing but hope for the best for all involved.

When I gave the opinion that NOW was the time to leave, I meant NOW. Like right now. Shut off the computer, go tell your husband everything, and end this relationship.

You seem to be posting and responding quite a bit here which leads me to believe on some level you "enjoy" (maybe wrong word) the drama. You want to compare notes with other posters and lament in your history of poor choices. I think that time should be over. Get up and go.

Enjoy is definitely the wrong word. I don't enjoy the drama. What you're suggesting me to do, as right as it may be, is a lot easier said, than done. I know you mean well, but you need to understand; there are other factors in my life that affect the decision-making process. Factors I'm not going to list here, because they are other aspects of my life, and enough has already been said.

At the very least make a concrete list towards leaving immediately. Tell yourself: "After daughter goes to bed I'm going to tell H everything." Figure out what order you will disclose everything and how you envision the next week, month, and year of your new lives.

NOW. Go now.

Understand that while I value the opinions, advice, etc. that has been given to me, it is no one's place to demand I follow their advice. Yes, I came her looking for input-from people who have been on any part of the spectrum-but that does not mean I have to take their word as gospel. It's not even possible to take everyone's advice, as it has been conflicting.

So yes, I appreciate your help, but at the end of the day, this is my call to make. I'm not saying I'm going to disregard any and all advice and input given-I'm saying that because it's me and my family that it directly affects, I have to make the call that best suits my situation.

June 25, 2013

AP has been your second sexual experience. So I assume that for you sex means a lot and it is not something very special to you.

Your statement contradicts itself, Pierre. If sex means a lot, how can it not be special to me? It clearly is special to me, because I don't just go screwing everything with a penis. Think about that, for a second.

Therefore, you are probably in a high level of emotional connection with
OM. You were pretty deep into OM to have sex with him and perhaps even deeper
to justify the extramarital sex.

I'm guessing you originally meant sex is special to me, otherwise this statement would make no sense. Yes, I am emotionally in deep when it comes to OM. No, I've never tried to justify the EMR; I know, given the parameters of my married relationship, what I've done is wrong. There's no justifying what I've done, aside from how strongly I felt about doing so, despite knowing I was in the wrong.

Within this context there is no way in heaven you are going to feel any romance
for your H. As you said, he is probably annoying to you even if he is behaving
nicely.

Not annoying, really; we still get along quite companionably. It's just that when he does get close to me, it makes me more self-conscious and aware of what's transpired with OM.

So you have created a situation where you must go to bed to with a man you feel
repulsion and to make matters worse the OM you love is unavailable and has to
hide from your H. This is so-called love of your life must be kept a secret
from your H. Why is that? Why did you create this chaos?

Oh, Pierre. You run very hot and cold with your posts. One minute, you understand it, even if you don't condone it. The next, you're condemning me left, right, and centre. How many times must I say it? I can't undo what's already been done. If I could undo the chaos, I would. There are no do-overs in life. The only actions I can take now affect the present and the future. And I have assured everyone that I will take the necessary steps. And check my posts again; at no point did I say I was repulsed by my H. I said I don't find him repulsive, so I can't make sense of my lack of emotional or physical need from him.

What kind of a man allows himself to be a secret? Why
does he hide behind your skirt? What kind of a man behaves in that manner? I
ask because that is one of the reasons I never had a full blown EMR. The act of
hiding is repulsive and degrading.

It doesn't really involve hiding, on his part. They've never interacted in any way, shape or form. You're entitled to your opinions and feelings but please, refrain from assuming everyone will do, feel, and think the same way you would in a situation. I don't know every thought that passes through his head. There are many concerns and thoughts he has shared with me, which lead me to believe he is not happy with the situation as it is, but is merely tolerating it. I'm not going into full details here. I feel like I'm going in circles with everyone's inquiries, at this point.

Your OM is not exactly a high quality man and you are about to make a trade here. You are willing to leave your H for this man. I suggest you leave your H and also dump the OM, he is up to no good.

...And my frustration levels are peaking.

1) I will decide what quality the people in my life are. People posting on the internet does not equal "knows better than I do". I appreciate that you're trying to help, but the condemnation is getting a tad irritating.

2) I am not repeating this again, for anyone. I am not making a trade. This isn't about "trading up" or "trading down". Why on effing Earth does everyone who is making this assumption think I view one man as better than the other? I don't. Different, yes. Similar, yes. They both possess qualities I like, love, dislike, and so on. I am working through the decision of divorce because I cannot continue to be in the relationship I am in. Because of my personal issues, my unhappiness, and the unhappiness I am unintentionally creating in my marriage. That is why I am leaving. Feelings that led to the affair with my OM aside, I am not making the choice because of my feelings for him; rather, my feelings for him added more chaos, and yet understanding, to the original problem in the first place.

As of right now, I think I've gotten more than enough feedback on the matter, and further input would only be overwhelming and exasperating.

To everyone: I appreciate all of your input on the matter, from each and every one of you. I ask that those of you who disagree with my reasoning respect that this is my situation, and therefore, I must deal with it when I am ready to, and in the manner I am ready to do so in. I mean no disrespect.

Again, thank you.

Edited June 25, 2013 by Rebel-Dynasty

June 25, 2013

Your statement contradicts itself, Pierre. If sex means a lot, how can it not be special to me? It clearly is special to me, because I don't just go screwing everything with a penis. Think about that, for a second.

I'm guessing you originally meant sex is special to me, otherwise this statement would make no sense. Yes, I am emotionally in deep when it comes to OM. No, I've never tried to justify the EMR; I know, given the parameters of my married relationship, what I've done is wrong. There's no justifying what I've done, aside from how strongly I felt about doing so, despite knowing I was in the wrong.

Yep, there is a typo. I know sex for you is not a minor thing. I am glad you figured out my typos.

Not annoying, really; we still get along quite companionably. It's just that when he does get close to me, it makes me more self-conscious and aware of what's transpired with OM.

OK, that is very well put and it makes sense.

Oh, Pierre. You run very hot and cold with your posts. One minute, you understand it, even if you don't condone it. The next, you're condemning me left, right, and centre. How many times must I say it? I can't undo what's already been done. If I could undo the chaos, I would. There are no do-overs in life. The only actions I can take now affect the present and the future. And I have assured everyone that I will take the necessary steps. And check my posts again; at no point did I say I was repulsed by my H. I said I don't find him repulsive, so I can't make sense of my lack of emotional or physical need from him.

I apologize:o!

It doesn't really involve hiding, on his part. They've never interacted in any way, shape or form. You're entitled to your opinions and feelings but please, refrain from assuming everyone will do, feel, and think the same way you would in a situation. I don't know every thought that passes through his head. There are many concerns and thoughts he has shared with me, which lead me to believe he is not happy with the situation as it is, but is merely tolerating it. I'm not going into full details here. I feel like I'm going in circles with everyone's inquiries, at this point.

OK, well put.

June 25, 2013

Sorry Pierre. It wasn't my intention to snap. The situation on its own was overwhelming, which is why I stumbled upon this site, while googling info on similar situations to my own. I figured if I got it off my chest, and heard from others on what they've been through, and what they thought, it would ease some of the stress.

What I'm finding is-to some extent, anyway-it's become more overwhelming. I'm not kidding when I say this; I've spent the last two nights having dreams about these conversations.

June 25, 2013

Harve, I'm not wasting my time responding to everything you've said. I know the difference between someone giving honest feedback, and someone going out of their way to pick a fight.

Kindly shove off.

June 26, 2013

Harve, I'm not wasting my time responding to everything you've said. I know the difference between someone giving honest feedback, and someone going out of their way to pick a fight.

Kindly shove off.

I think your much earlier post about wanting to disengage from this thread was wise. You have been sucked into some harmful conversations lately on this thread. You have suffered enough trying to answer to people that are hurt and lashing out at you. I'm sympathetic to them but also you. Trust your gut and leave this thread. Don't leave LS.

June 26, 2013

I think your much earlier post about wanting to disengage from this thread was wise. You have been sucked into some harmful conversations lately on this thread. You have suffered enough trying to answer to people that are hurt and lashing out at you. I'm sympathetic to them but also you. Trust your gut and leave this thread. Don't leave LS.

I won't lie, I considered leaving LS. But, I refuse to run from a fight-and there have been people, such as yourself, that make me want to stay and talk. In other threads, of course, and about more than just this. Eventually, this will be a memory.

Hopefully the mods close this one. I have gained much insight from it, but I no longer need it. Some posts have been deleted here, as well-though a few of those involved being off-topic, talking about Canadian cities, in which I participated, lol.

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