How Cliche Can It Get?

June 20, 2013

Firstly, I'm not the OW. Rather, I'm the person in a committed relationship, having an affair with someone who is single.

I'll try to condense this, and make it easy to follow...though it will still be long. I apologize.

-I've been with the same man for 8 1/2 years. In that time period, he and I have broken up twice, and the better majority of our relationship has been a struggle for me. At first, he wasn't as present as he should've been, but as time has worn on, it's me that's drifted away; it seems I can't make myself feel as strongly for him, anymore. I'm not interested in getting physical with him, and more often than not, I feel like I'm just going through the motions. There's the possibility at our 6 year mark, he may, or may not have, cheated. He awoke in another person's bed after a drinking bender. He has no recollection. However, none of this currently matters. Why? On to my next bullet.

-At our seven year mark, I began talking to an old high-school friend. We had lost contact, and after several years, finally managed to get back in contact. I initiated this. I didn't understand why I felt the need to get in touch, but I did, and it became clear, after a few months. After a few months, he confessed feelings for me-feelings he had long ago, that over the years, ebbed and flowed (depending on what was going on in his life at the time) but never vanished. Feelings that had grown. Eventually (a few weeks after his confession) I admitted much the same to him.

-At first, it was just about being honest with each other. Then, one night, as we spoke over facebook, despite all previous statements on both our parts that nothing would ever happen, he asked if I would let him please me, just once? He had always wanted to be with me, and though he felt guilty asking, there was desperation. Between his health being anywhere between mediocre to terrible, and my own desire to be with him...well, I agreed. I would be in town in a few weeks anyway to visit family and friends, (my husband is in the military, which caused us to move 5 hours from our home town), so I agreed to a one-time deal. I cannot put into words, how shocked we both were after our discussion, and even more so, when we did wind up having sex. It all started out so innocently; it was the most bittersweet feeling I've ever experienced.

-As time has worn on, we realized we couldn't stop after the once. What initially was to be one time, so we'd have one less event in our lives to regret (as twisted as that may sound) became urgent. Despite our shared guilt for me cheating on my partner (whom I was not married to until several months later; I'll explain soon), we just couldn't seem to stop. We've had sex on four different occasions (usually involving anywhere from 1-4 sex sessions per visit), and on my next visit, we plan to again.

-Now, before our third time, he wound up dating another long-time female friend. One he had on-again-off-again feelings for, but whom he'd never engaged in anything with. During our third time, I technically was the other women, though we didn't do much, due to his conflicted feelings. I know what you're thinking; it was alright to expect me to cheat, but when it was him, he had further reservations. I thought the same, I won't lie; but, their relationship fell through. Not because of us, but because his gf realized that whatever feelings had been there, were no longer of the romantic persuasion. Anyway, while they were dating, I became convinced he and I had run our course, and wanted him to pursue happiness. My then fiancé had been talking of finally tying the knot after all these years. I'd held off for quite a few months (basically as soon as the affair started) but running out of excuses to hold it off, and getting tired of the pressure I was feeling from him and our families, I gave in. For the record, he knew of my reservations. That being said, I carry a much bigger portion of the blame. I shouldn't have gotten married, just because my AP was in a relationship. Because of the marriage (which occurred Dec 2012) things are far more complicated now, then they were prior to it.

-There is talk of ending my current relationship, once I am financially able to do so. My husband is fully aware of this. The only thing he remains unaware of is the infidelity. He knows everything else. How I feel about my "friend", how the feelings won't go away, no matter how many ups and downs we've had since this begun (and my AP and I have had many! Many arguments, weeks of silent treatment, sadness, frustration, insecurity, folding, begging forgiveness, professions of love and guilt, and talks of a future).

Between finances (my husband has many debts, and if I leave him, everything will topple like a house of cards. He'd be ruined) and the fact that we have a five-year-old daughter, the decision, though it's one I'm set on making, is no less daunting. For one, no one we mutually know is going to know of the affair. Why? Because as it is, once this comes to pass, there's going to be enough of a backlash from everyone, without them knowing about that part. If I tell anyone, it'll be my husband.

But, my questions to all of you who have faced this dilemma, or currently are, are as follows:

Given the fact that I cheated to be with him, do you think trust can be established, so that he realizes I will never cheat on him with anyone else? I know what some might be thinking; "you say that, now". But, it's true. I mean it. I had multiple chances to hook up with other people-both during my relationship, and during the break-ups-and I never did. It took this one person to change that. Because deep down, even though I believe I make my own choices, my own destiny, I cannot escape the feeling we were meant for each other. Cliché, I know. Along with that question, is he trustworthy, since he did cheat on someone for me, during their short-lived relationship? He's never been unfaithful before, either. I know this, because his room-mate has vouched for him-a room-mate that has no trouble admitting his other less-than-stellar attributes, assures me that despite those shortcomings, he's trustworthy when it comes to me. So, I'll try to believe that; but, I want second opinions.

Also, when is the right time to 'fess up about the affair? Is there a right time, or should I get it over with? Should I never speak of it? What are your thoughts?

My other question is, how to I make the transition as smooth as possible? It's going to be hard, getting a divorce-it'll still hurt to say goodbye to my husband, after so many years together-and I worry about the impact this will have on my daughter, and her relationship with her father. Given his career, he'll only see her three times a year. What can I do to ease the pain for both of them, yet still find happiness with the person I long to be with?

Edited June 20, 2013 by Rebel-Dynasty

June 20, 2013

Do you live in a fault-divorce state?

Does he only see his daughter 3 times a year now?

Are you also in the military and/or living on a base?

I'm guessing you both thought you thought you were the type of person who would never cheat before the affair. You both can say you won't do it again, but past behavior is the greatest indicator of future behavior. He cheated to be with you. When he finds someone else he wants to be with, he may cheat to be with that person too. After all, he got what he wanted and everything turned out fine the last time, right? It's all classical conditioning. When we are rewarded and not punished for our actions, we are more likely to do them again.

June 20, 2013

Firstly, I'm not the OW. Rather, I'm the person in a committed relationship, having an affair with someone who is single.

I'll try to condense this, and make it easy to follow...though it will still be long. I apologize.

-I've been with the same man for 8 1/2 years. In that time period, he and I have broken up twice, and the better majority of our relationship has been a struggle for me. At first, he wasn't as present as he should've been, but as time has worn on, it's me that's drifted away; it seems I can't make myself feel as strongly for him, anymore. I'm not interested in getting physical with him, and more often than not, I feel like I'm just going through the motions. There's the possibility at our 6 year mark, he may, or may not have, cheated. He awoke in another person's bed after a drinking bender. He has no recollection. However, none of this currently matters. Why? On to my next bullet.

-At our seven year mark, I began talking to an old high-school friend. We had lost contact, and after several years, finally managed to get back in contact. I initiated this. I didn't understand why I felt the need to get in touch, but I did, and it became clear, after a few months. After a few months, he confessed feelings for me-feelings he had long ago, that over the years, ebbed and flowed (depending on what was going on in his life at the time) but never vanished. Feelings that had grown. Eventually (a few weeks after his confession) I admitted much the same to him.

-At first, it was just about being honest with each other. Then, one night, as we spoke over facebook, despite all previous statements on both our parts that nothing would ever happen, he asked if I would let him please me, just once? He had always wanted to be with me, and though he felt guilty asking, there was desperation. Between his health being anywhere between mediocre to terrible, and my own desire to be with him...well, I agreed. I would be in town in a few weeks anyway to visit family and friends, (my husband is in the military, which caused us to move 5 hours from our home town), so I agreed to a one-time deal. I cannot put into words, how shocked we both were after our discussion, and even more so, when we did wind up having sex. It all started out so innocently; it was the most bittersweet feeling I've ever experienced.

-As time has worn on, we realized we couldn't stop after the once. What initially was to be one time, so we'd have one less event in our lives to regret (as twisted as that may sound) became urgent. Despite our shared guilt for me cheating on my partner (whom I was not married to until several months later; I'll explain soon), we just couldn't seem to stop. We've had sex on four different occasions (usually involving anywhere from 1-4 sex sessions per visit), and on my next visit, we plan to again.

-Now, before our third time, he wound up dating another long-time female friend. One he had on-again-off-again feelings for, but whom he'd never engaged in anything with. During our third time, I technically was the other women, though we didn't do much, due to his conflicted feelings. I know what you're thinking; it was alright to expect me to cheat, but when it was him, he had further reservations. I thought the same, I won't lie; but, their relationship fell through. Not because of us, but because his gf realized that whatever feelings had been there, were no longer of the romantic persuasion. Anyway, while they were dating, I became convinced he and I had run our course, and wanted him to pursue happiness. My then fiancé had been talking of finally tying the knot after all these years. I'd held off for quite a few months (basically as soon as the affair started) but running out of excuses to hold it off, and getting tired of the pressure I was feeling from him and our families, I gave in. For the record, he knew of my reservations. That being said, I carry a much bigger portion of the blame. I shouldn't have gotten married, just because my AP was in a relationship. Because of the marriage (which occurred Dec 2012) things are far more complicated now, then they were prior to it.

-There is talk of ending my current relationship, once I am financially able to do so. My husband is fully aware of this. The only thing he remains unaware of is the infidelity. He knows everything else. How I feel about my "friend", how the feelings won't go away, no matter how many ups and downs we've had since this begun (and my AP and I have had many! Many arguments, weeks of silent treatment, sadness, frustration, insecurity, folding, begging forgiveness, professions of love and guilt, and talks of a future).

Between finances (my husband has many debts, and if I leave him, everything will topple like a house of cards. He'd be ruined) and the fact that we have a five-year-old daughter, the decision, though it's one I'm set on making, is no less daunting. For one, no one we mutually know is going to know of the affair. Why? Because as it is, once this comes to pass, there's going to be enough of a backlash from everyone, without them knowing about that part. If I tell anyone, it'll be my husband.

But, my questions to all of you who have faced this dilemma, or currently are, are as follows:

Given the fact that I cheated to be with him, do you think trust can be established, so that he realizes I will never cheat on him with anyone else? I know what some might be thinking; "you say that, now". But, it's true. I mean it. I had multiple chances to hook up with other people-both during my relationship, and during the break-ups-and I never did. It took this one person to change that. Because deep down, even though I believe I make my own choices, my own destiny, I cannot escape the feeling we were meant for each other. Cliché, I know. Along with that question, is he trustworthy, since he did cheat on someone for me, during their short-lived relationship? He's never been unfaithful before, either. I know this, because his room-mate has vouched for him-a room-mate that has no trouble admitting his other less-than-stellar attributes, assures me that despite those shortcomings, he's trustworthy when it comes to me. So, I'll try to believe that; but, I want second opinions.

Also, when is the right time to 'fess up about the affair? Is there a right time, or should I get it over with? Should I never speak of it? What are your thoughts?

My other question is, how to I make the transition as smooth as possible? It's going to be hard, getting a divorce-it'll still hurt to say goodbye to my husband, after so many years together-and I worry about the impact this will have on my daughter, and her relationship with her father. Given his career, he'll only see her three times a year. What can I do to ease the pain for both of them, yet still find happiness with the person I long to be with?

Hi there,

I was a MOW and I am currently divorced from my H. I'll give you my take on all this, but obviously I draw upon experience. There are two issues here that should be addressed independently. They can be mixed together but it is better to keep them apart. The first is your marriage. Given what you've said in your first marriage and how long its been, this is not an ideal marriage. It's not a healthy relationship. If you don't believe you deserve better, because you feel guilty, please realize that your Husband deserves better. No matter how he's been in your relationship, he could find someone who makes him happy in that way that we all want. He probably won't leave you if you don't want to end it, because men find it harder to take such a huge step that leaves them alone. My advice for you would to be to proceed with your divorce. Believe it or not, experts say that if you are waiting to feel "NO LOVE" before you divorce, its unrealistic. You will always have fond memories. If you think there's something to save, go to MC for a while. It's better to have a 'friendly' divorce, for yourself and for your 5 year old.

Now about your other relationship... How many women does he have that he's had 'off and on' feelings for all these years? I count two in your story, but since he broke it off with her it is likely his dating her was a response to you being married. He felt like you had another primary relationship, why shouldn't he? After your divorce, you should date him properly and he should date you. See if there is something there. If there isn't, maybe someone else is in your future.

As for your 5 year old, all kids are different, but my 4 year old handled the Divorce the best. She didn't blink an eye because we were always nice to each other and put her needs first and explained that our relationship with each other had nothing to do with our relationship with her. Kids that age especially are just worried about their own well being and often are upset by divorce if they feel like it affects their security and stability. If he can't see her but 3 times a year, make sure she is available by Skype, draw pictures for him and the circumstances will change as she grows older. His continued relationship with her will help him transition into the world of being 'single'.

I wish you a lot of luck. Life is full of hard decisions and difficult steps but after the hard times are easier times. Don't stay stuck because of fear.

June 20, 2013

Hi there,

I was a MOW and I am currently divorced from my H. I'll give you my take on
all this, but obviously I draw upon experience. There are two issues here that
should be addressed independently. They can be mixed together but it is better
to keep them apart. The first is your marriage. Given what you've said in
your first marriage and how long its been, this is not an ideal marriage. It's
not a healthy relationship. If you don't believe you deserve better, because
you feel guilty, please realize that your Husband deserves better.

I can't tell you how many times I've thought that; that my husband deserves better than the deceit and infidelity, and that I should leave, to protect him from further damage. I'm more worried about his financial issues; they'll progressively get worse; his pay grade will decrease, he'll lose the PMQ (personnel married quarters), and he may even lose the car-the one thing that will ensure his ability to see his daughter those 3 times a year. But I know, you are right. I'm just trying to hammer out how. I've been trying to get work for a few months now, to aid his debt problem, and to make what I desire come about.

No matter how he's been in your relationship, he could find someone who makes
him happy in that way that we all want.

I even told him that, too. I don't hold the struggles and pain of the past against him...I want him to be able to move on, but he doesn't believe he ever will. Mostly because of his career. It's the Canadian military, by the way. Just to clear up any confusion.

He probably won't leave you if you don't want to end it, because men find
it harder to take such a huge step that leaves them alone.

Also true. I told him as well, that it wouldn't be right for me to stay with him, even if things don't work out with my "friend". I told him I wouldn't feel right, that it wouldn't be fair to him if I stayed for the wrong reasons, nor for our daughter. My unhappiness, despite my efforts to contain it, does spill out, and affect our family life.

My advice for you would to be to proceed with your divorce. Believe
it or not, experts say that if you are waiting to feel "NO LOVE" before you
divorce, its unrealistic. You will always have fond memories. If you
think there's something to save, go to MC for a while. It's better to have
a 'friendly' divorce, for yourself and for your 5 year old.

I really appreciate your advice, and how understanding you're being. Aside from some mixed feelings, I am determined to move on. it's just the how and when. My AP is going through some issues of his own. His room-mate is moving out in August, so he either A)has to find another room-mate, or B) find a new place. I was supposed to move in with him, as a third room-mate. But, since his room-mate's gf got pregnant and feels the need to leave ASAP (which is understandable) my AP is putting "us" on the back burner, until his living situation is sorted out. In which case, if he keeps his current apartment, I'd likely move in. If not, I have to financially prepare, and try to secure a job, there. Along with all of this, given the fact that I just got married in December (first marriage, and after all the years with my husband) I feel like a failure. I was so, incredibly stupid to go through with the marriage. I know this. If I could go back and stop it, I would.

Now about your other relationship... How many women does he have that he's had
'off and on' feelings for all these years? I count two in your story, but since
he broke it off with her it is likely his dating her was a response to you being
married. He felt like you had another primary relationship, why shouldn't he?
After your divorce, you should date him properly and he should date you. See if
there is something there. If there isn't, maybe someone else is in your future.

He's had feelings for other women over the years, but since our affair, I (and the short-lived gf) were the only ones. He admitted to me there are other women he is physically attracted to, but has not acted on it, even though he is in no way tied down. He also stated beyond physical attraction, he has no desire to be in a relationship with these women. Since our affair began, I told him to never be afraid to pursue others, nor to be honest if and when he does. I believe him, as he has been honest about many things over the last year that were hard for me to deal with. I also believe you are correct; his relationship was slightly to do with mine. He was also feeling a great deal of pressure. He's 28, lonely, and fears being alone for the rest of his days. He may very well have entered into the relationship with her for the wrong reasons, though reasons I could never blame him for.

As for your 5 year old, all kids are different, but my 4 year old handled the
Divorce the best. She didn't blink an eye because we were always nice to each
other and put her needs first and explained that our relationship with each
other had nothing to do with our relationship with her. Kids that age
especially are just worried about their own well being and often are upset by
divorce if they feel like it affects their security and stability. If he can't
see her but 3 times a year, make sure she is available by Skype, draw pictures
for him and the circumstances will change as she grows older. His continued
relationship with her will help him transition into the world of being
'single'.

This helps, a lot more than you could possibly know. A lot of my hesitation is about them, so it's refreshing that you have these helpful tips to soften the blow.

I wish you a lot of luck. Life is full of hard decisions and difficult steps but after the hard times are easier times. Don't stay stuck because of fear.

Thank you, so, so much. I appreciate the time you took to reply, and I'll definitely take your advice into serious consideration.

June 20, 2013

Do you live in a fault-divorce state?

I live in Canada. Ontario, to be specific. I'm not sure what a fault-divorce is.

Does he only see his daughter 3 times a year now?

No, we live together. But, if we divorce, and I move back to our home-town, due to his career, he'll only be able to see her 3 times a year, approximately. It's because of how the vacation time works.

Are you also in the military and/or living on a base?

I'm not in the military, but I do live on base. We live in a PMQ, which is personnel married quarters. It's a small house.

I'm guessing you both thought you thought you were the type of person who would
never cheat before the affair.

Yes, I really did believe that. I've been pursued by others-both during my relationship, and while single (during break-ups), and never gave in to any of them. I'm not justifying what I've done. I know, I shouldn't have. By all accounts, I should have waited to see if my feelings for my friend would continue, and made a clean break with my now husband, to avoid infidelity. I can't erase the past now. What's done is done.

You both can say you won't do it again, but past behavior is the greatest indicator of future behavior. He cheated to be with you. When he finds someone else he wants to be with, he may cheat to be with that person too. After all, he got what he wanted and everything turned out fine the last time, right? It's all classical conditioning. When we are rewarded and not punished for our actions, we are more likely to do them again.

I've thought a great deal about that, as well. Like I said, he never cheated before, either. And the only time it qualified as him cheating was during our third time. He felt really guilty after that. We barely got anywhere with it, but infidelity is still infidelity. I know...there are risks, and complications. I might be heading for chaos...but, is it also not possible that neither one of us will ever feel the need to go down that road again? I trust that I won't. I trust, that after all the chaos I've been dealing with this time around, I'll be smarter, in the future. If I am no longer satisfied with him down the road, I refuse to make this mistake again. It's taken a lot out of me. I can't even tell you how bat-**** insane I've been for this last year. But again, I really do appreciate your input.

June 20, 2013

I live in Canada. Ontario, to be specific. I'm not sure what a fault-divorce is.

In some countries, the presence of infidelity that leads to divorce can affect the outcomes of the proceedings in terms of alimony, child custody, division of assets, and other things. I'm not sure how Canada handles this.

I'm not in the military, but I do live on base. We live in a PMQ, which is personnel married quarters. It's a small house.

Like many Americans, I am ignorant and tend to assume everyone else is American too. Sorry! In the US, adultery is considered a crime in the military for both the WS and the OP. It typically results in a court-martial and dishonorable discharge. Although it's not a crime for civillians, you would be evicted from the base if people became aware of it.

From what I can tell, this is not how it works in Canada, but it's something you should look into. Not having a place to live would be tough, and you would want to wait until you have off-base housing for you and your daughter before telling your husband and filing for divorce.

I've thought a great deal about that, as well. Like I said, he never cheated before, either. And the only time it qualified as him cheating was during our third time. He felt really guilty after that. We barely got anywhere with it, but infidelity is still infidelity. I know...there are risks, and complications. I might be heading for chaos...but, is it also not possible that neither one of us will ever feel the need to go down that road again? I trust that I won't. I trust, that after all the chaos I've been dealing with this time around, I'll be smarter, in the future. If I am no longer satisfied with him down the road, I refuse to make this mistake again. It's taken a lot out of me. I can't even tell you how bat-**** insane I've been for this last year. But again, I really do appreciate your input.

I believe it's difficult to know how you will react in a situation until it actually happens. I definitely do believe it's possible for the both of you to remain faithful to one another. I think the key to doing this is having strong communication with one another and being aware of the signs that you're about to slip into an emotional affair.

Yet, at the same time, you can only control your own behavior. You may vow to never cheat again and go through with your promise, but he may not. It's a risk in all relationships, just slightly riskier in yours because he has already gone there. That being said, I don't believe most cheaters are serial cheaters, and I think it's possible for this to just be a one time instance for you both. If you love him and envision a life with him, taking that risk is probably worth it. Good luck!

June 20, 2013

In some countries, the presence of infidelity that leads to divorce can affect the outcomes of the proceedings in terms of alimony, child custody, division of assets, and other things. I'm not sure how Canada handles this.

I'm not sure how we handle it, either. Looks like I have some research ahead of me.

Like many Americans, I am ignorant and tend to assume everyone else is
American too. Sorry! In the US, adultery is considered a crime in the military
for both the WS and the OP. It typically results in a court-martial and
dishonorable discharge. Although it's not a crime for civillians, you would be
evicted from the base if people became aware of it.

From what I can tell, this is not how it works in Canada, but it's something
you should look into. Not having a place to live would be tough, and you would
want to wait until you have off-base housing for you and your daughter before
telling your husband and filing for divorce.

This is sound advice. It seems I have a lot to look into on the matter.

I believe it's difficult to know how you will react in a situation until it
actually happens. I definitely do believe it's possible for the both of you to
remain faithful to one another. I think the key to doing this is having strong
communication with one another and being aware of the signs that you're about to
slip into an emotional affair.

Also true; after all, I didn't think I'd ever cheat...and then I did it.

Yet, at the same time, you can only control your own behavior. You may vow to never cheat again and go through with your promise, but he may not. It's a risk in all relationships, just slightly riskier in yours because he has already gone there. That being said, I don't believe most cheaters are serial cheaters, and I think it's possible for this to just be a one time instance for you both. If you love him and envision a life with him, taking that risk is probably worth it. Good luck!

I do envision a life with him, certainly. We'll definitely be having some very open, honest communication on the matter, when we can get back to focusing on it (discussions of us entering a legit relationship have been put on the back burner, due to a current living situation he's faced with. Apartment issues, to be specific). Thank you, very much.

June 21, 2013

I feel the need to add more to my thread on the matter.

Now, to me, my affair seems very obvious. My husband knows of my feelings for my AP, though I have not admitted to the infidelity.

At the same time though, there are so many signs, so many things he could snoop into to have it all confirmed, if he bothered to.

I'm not sure if what's happening is a clearly undeserving trust in me, or if he's in denial, and has decided he doesn't want to know if it goes beyond emotions.

For one, my journal: if he ever bothered to read it, it's incriminating, beyond belief. I have written down parts (sometimes whole) texted conversations I've had with my AP, written about my times with him, and all the mixed emotions that come with it.

If he checked my Facebook-which would be all too easy, since it's always logged in (he uses google chrome for his, I use explorer for mine)-he could check inbox messages between my AP and I, and thus, more solid proof of my affair.

He could check my cell phone, and he'd find it; not every conversation, since my phone deletes once my texts hit 200 from one person-one by one-but he'd find the most recent conversation, which would have at least snippets of sexting.

On top of that, my husband drove me to my AP's place, dropping me off to stay over an entire weekend. And since then, I have slept at my AP's house one other time, since my husband and I were both in town anyway, visiting friends and family.

Now, since I have slept over at our mutual friends' houses before (most of which are male), I'd deduce maybe he trusts me because of that...except for one thing; before the first sleep over at my AP's, he had reservations about me doing it, because it's someone he doesn't know personally, and still hasn't met.

So, I'm given to wonder? Do you think my husband trusts me, or do you think he's in denial?

June 22, 2013

And more to add to it...

Here and there, since this all started, and more so since I started talking about getting a divorce down the road, my AP expresses guilt, thinking "he's breaking up a family".

He doesn't seem to process when I explain to him that separation from my husband is inevitable; whether it happens in 3 months, or 3 years, it's going to happen, because it needs to.

So, any ideas on how to get him to understand this? Sure, he may bear responsibility in our affair, but he bears none in my desire to leave.

Or do I need to let him just work through this in his own way?

It is decided by both of us, when this comes to pass, we will gradually start dating, once the dust has settled. Do you think once he sees there is nothing changing my mind, he'll ease up with his level of guilt?

In regards to my husband, what are your thoughts on me not wanting to leave until he's on more financially stable ground? It will already be hard on him as it is, with me leaving; if I leave while he's struggling with financial debt, I'd feel like the biggest criminal of all.

Again, any and all input is greatly appreciated.

June 24, 2013

You can help him financially after you leave. And he should learn to stand on his own two feet eventually. Don't worry about that so much.

Do know that the reason he does not spy on you is bc he trusts you. He probably believes you would never stab him in the back as you have done. It is cruel to not tell him how that knife got in his back. More than help him with his finances you should help him with that knife in his back.

June 24, 2013

You can help him financially after you leave. And he should learn to stand on his own two feet eventually. Don't worry about that so much.

Do know that the reason he does not spy on you is bc he trusts you. He probably believes you would never stab him in the back as you have done. It is cruel to not tell him how that knife got in his back. More than help him with his finances you should help him with that knife in his back.

I'm taking this into serious consideration. I still feel time is of the essence, here. Dropping a bomb of this magnitude on him is going to require tact on my part.

Thank you for your feedback, Confused48.

June 24, 2013

I'm taking this into serious consideration. I still feel time is of the essence, here. Dropping a bomb of this magnitude on him is going to require tact on my part.

Thank you for your feedback, Confused48.

The most kind thing you can do is to divorce him and live close by. In that manner he can see his child. IN the US the dads are supposed to have access to the children after the divorce.

June 24, 2013

The most kind thing you can do is to divorce him and live close by. In that manner he can see his child. IN the US the dads are supposed to have access to the children after the divorce.

As much as I'd want to make it easier for him to see his daughter, I wouldn't want to stay in the same town. I also have reservations about going to the next town over, since it's basically a hive for drug addicts. I don't want my daughter in an area like that, at all.

My initial thought is to move back to my "hometown" (not where I was born, but where I spent the better majority of my life), because at least then, it's familiar territory, and my daughter would be close to both grandparents.

Though now that I think about it, perhaps I could move somewhere that's a half-way point. Even without our mutual friends or family knowing about the A, I'm expecting some very nasty reactions, once divorce comes about-if it comes about, though I really am leaning in that direction. It would be rather uncomfortable for me to live in the same city, where the people I know there would likely ostracize me-even if it's only to a certain extent. Couple that with the fact that jobs are difficult to both acquire and hold back home, and well...it's possible to live there, but it would be far too stressful, at first.

This merits a lot of thought. This is how I know I'm not suffering from GIGS, by the way. Maybe I did in the past, during the two break-ups, but with this? I have no delusion that it's going to be all smiles and sunshine. It's going to be a much harder life for me, but the fact that I still want to go through with it must mean something.

June 24, 2013

Hi Rebel-Dynasty

I realize at this moment that my user name is a plagiarism of yours and for that I am truly sorry!! LOL

It took me a minute to mull that over, lol! Not at all; complete happenstance, I'm sure.

I am similar to you in that I know I have to let go of my marriage for emotional
reasons, but want to stay in it for practical ones. I have a sort of medieval
notion about marriage. You know, the pragmatic, marriage-is-a-business notion
that makes you bite the coin before you slip it in your bustier and carry on
with daily life. I think there is this "business"layer in all married people,
though few admit it cause it sounds cynical and unsanctimonious--in fact, the
notion of marriage being an oasis of total spiritual/romantic fulfillment is
sort of new, and in some cultures considered only the folly of spoiled, crazy
Westerners.

I think that's part of it for me, too. There are emotions involved, and we go through pleasant, comfortable times with one another, where we joke, talk about everything political or mundane, etc. But, I do feel a lot of what keeps me here is worrying about him (emotionally and financially) and our daughter (definitely the hardest part, of all).

So where does honesty fit into business? You can come clean to everyone and lose
all your "holdings"(child custody, financial stability, medical insurance,
societal image,etc.) or you can tell enough lies to survive as best you can. I
am still struggling with this. In some ways I think coming clean and getting
divorced--with or without MM in the picture, will be my surest road to
happiness. But what KIND of happiness? Romantic? And...is that really the only
kind of happiness that is important to me??!! My kids could care less if I'm
romantically fulfilled or if I'm getting enough pleasure in the sack.

Luckily I live in Ontario, Canada, so health coverage isn't much of an issue. Dental is, as it's not covered by our health plan, but those other concerns do come up. My husband and I have talked about custody often. Though it would kill me, I would rather he be able to have our daughter more, to spare him the heartache. However, his job would make that impossible, so he is certain the courts would rule in favour of me. I would never intentionally deny him access to his child-he's a great dad-but he only gets so much vacation time in a year, and the distance would definitely make it that much harder. I too, am struggling with my happiness vs. their happiness. My lack of happiness, in the long run, will taint theirs...but leaving him will also cause pain. I can't stay, for that reason alone...but I feel selfish for wanting to go.

My question to you is: how much do you REALLY want your AP? I kind of get the
feeling that he seems noncommittal and needy at the same time---which, to me, is
a dangerous combo. The kind of guy you could really fall into--into the chasm of
his neediness---but who will give little in return, and just might need to give
back to multiple partners..he's young too....I dunno. DO you really think you
LOVE this guy? Or do your just want out of the M?

I really do want a chance to be with my AP properly, but that's not the reason for my desire to divorce. My husband hasn't done anything wrong, of course. I've just been discontent for a long time, and no matter how long I fight it, the desire is always the same. Maybe it's from being far away from everything that matters, coupled with feeling like I'm just going through the motions with him. As for my AP, he wants nothing more than to be with me. He feels guilty for his part in this (and for parts that are outside of his control), but he does want there to be an "Us". I'll admit, he has moments of clinginess, but for the most part, he's quite capable of operating in a relationship, without being dependent on it. If that makes any sense. And yes, I do love my AP. When I realized it, I cried for days, because I hated myself for it. Here I was, finally getting back on to solid ground with my then fiancé, even though I was still unhappy...and feelings I hadn't even been aware I'd had until hindsight kicked in suddenly consumed me. For a full year, this affair has been both heaven and hell. AP and I have both ended it, at one point or another, just to find we couldn't let go. The last time he ended it, I grieved harder than I ever have in my life for anyone-including my husband, during our break-ups.

We had an unspoken NC for awhile (until joining this site, all of these terms, beyond cheating and affair, of course, were foreign to me). When it broke, it was tentatively for both of us. He was trying to let me go, trying to save my family...but I guess we're both too selfish.

As for the military thing--my sister invented all kinds of reasons to leave her
husband, but in the end it was clear she simply couldn't commit to the
sacrifices of being an Army wife. It can be very limiting.

My husband's been in for only three years, but yes, it certainly is. I really wanted to try and make it work; I really, really did. I wanted to prove I was strong enough to withstand it (our last break-up was a result of him entering into the military, in which I wasn't sure I could handle the lifestyle). But when I think about that, it feels to me, like I was holding on for the wrong reasons.

And about children..ugh..this is my sticking point. The idea of my kids seeing their Dad less than every day is utterly heartbreaking to me. Not saying that to lay on the guilt, but just sharing how deep those feelings can go. Practically speaking, as a working man, he probably doesn't spend THAT much time with them anyway, but to be physically far apart would be devastating for both him and me!

I know how you feel. That is honestly the hardest part of the entire decision. I don't want to rip my daughter away from my husband; they have such a close bond, that it breaks me to think of doing it.

And yet, I know, if I stay for that reason, I'll be miserable...and though I'd never want to take that misery out on them, I really fear I would. On top of that guilt? I'd also hate myself for hurting my AP, especially since I do want to be with him. Not right after the divorce, mind you. I'm going to need time to adjust; it's still going to hurt to walk away from this relationship; the years I've put into it, the good times and the bad, the mundane, yet special times...all of that does mean something to me.

I fear this is a choice I should have made, and stuck with, long ago; it would have been easier than it is, now.

June 24, 2013

My husband was also very unpreturbed by my EA. When he thought he found evidence of a PA, he seemed mildly hurt (on the verge of anger) but the thought did not seem too devastating to him.

Certain things my H has said makes me think he suspects. At one point, he was upset about something, but wouldn't say what. I finally got it out of him, by saying to him, "Know what? Fine. Keep your secrets. I have mine, and you have yours." It was a problem at work that was bothering him, but since then, anytime I've made references to secrets I wish I could vocalize, but feel I can't, he's told me "It's okay, you don't have to tell me/I don't want to know."

He seemed resigned. I have a couple theories. Some men like being cuckolded.
They don't like it, per se, but a kind of deep-seated insecurity about their
manhood makes them "understand" why you and he might need a surrogate to keep
you happy. Think of old rich men with drop-dead beautiful wives...some of them
know what's going in with the pool boy.

If this is the case, it drives me crazy. I don't want him to resign himself to that. He deserves better than that.

But the sadder interpretation is "he's just not that into you." He could have an
AP of his own on the side and doesn't trust you'd be ok with that, even if you
tell him you would.

I honestly suspected that at one point, and did a great deal of snooping. At the time, I was very much irrationally trying to find a reason to 'fess up to him, knowing he wouldn't be able to become truly angry, if he was guilty of the same. My constant search came up dry. I suspected an EA at the very least, but I still can't be sure, because the co-worker I was suspicious of was posted elsewhere. At this point, I'm just going to assume there wasn't anything of any kind going on. I doubt that he's "not into me", though; when we've had the talk, he's cried. he's made it clear he wants to be with me, and only me. You can just imagine how miserable that makes me feel.

I come to this conclusion with my husband. I think it's a combo of that, plus a sado-masochistic acceptance of being a cuckold, as well as his being somewhat asexual to begin with. With ME, at least (could be a GF on the side, I don't care WHY he's asexual with me, just THAT he is.) So...I dunno...don't take his looking the other way as simple denial. It could be that this is an "arrangement" with limits that works for him. If you want love in your marriage and not an "arrangement", you're gonna have to shake things up.

Even if he accepted me having a man on the side, I couldn't be okay with that. I feel like he'd be settling for a lot less than he deserves, and I know my AP wouldn't fair well, either.

Maybe if this had been an open-relationship from the start, I'd be okay with it, because everyone involved would be aware of how things work. But with things as they are, I wouldn't be comfortable going that route, especially when I'm ambivalent, at best, in regards to my H.

Edited June 24, 2013 by Rebel-Dynasty

June 24, 2013

My husband was also very unpreturbed by my EA. When he thought he found evidence of a PA, he seemed mildly hurt (on the verge of anger) but the thought did not seem too devastating to him. He seemed resigned. I have a couple theories. Some men like being cuckolded. They don't like it, per se, but a kind of deep-seated insecurity about their manhood makes them "understand" why you and he might need a surrogate to keep you happy. Think of old rich men with drop-dead beautiful wives...some of them know what's going in with the pool boy.

But the sadder interpretation is "he's just not that into you." He could have an AP of his own on the side and doesn't trust you'd be ok with that, even if you tell him you would.

I come to this conclusion with my husband. I think it's a combo of that, plus a sado-masochistic acceptance of being a cuckold, as well as his being somewhat asexual to begin with. With ME, at least (could be a GF on the side, I don't care WHY he's asexual with me, just THAT he is.) So...I dunno...don't take his looking the other way as simple denial. It could be that this is an "arrangement" with limits that works for him. If you want love in your marriage and not an "arrangement", you're gonna have to shake things up.

Men that like to share the wife get sexual gratification out of it. If your H is not sexual he may simply be resigned to the fact that another man needs to do that job.

Do you get something out of cuckolding him? It seems this lifestyle may not be for you. OTOH, many women can live with this arrangement.

June 24, 2013

No I get absolutely nothing out of it. Other than security from the father of my children, which I'm afraid I will have to give up, because I am exploiting him. I don't understand how anyone can get enjoyment out of it-- to me that is not a man, sorry to say. I understand he has many things to offer, but an adult heterosexual romantic relationship (which to me means constantly boning the person you most love to laugh with) is not one of them. So this leaves me feeling very depressed both for him and myself. It is unfulfilling. I cannot feel anything but turned off to a man who does not, at least a little bit, want to posses me.

I fully understand. Why is it so important to be possessed?

June 24, 2013

-the one thing that will ensure his ability to see his daughter those 3 times a year.

I don't know about Canadian custody law, but isn't it possible he will fight for joint custody? I can't see it being OK with the law that you move far away and he only sees his daughter 3 times a year.

June 24, 2013

it's not. I don't like possessive people. But a TOTAL ABSENCE of that is not love to me, I don't know why. If I could practice that much detachment I'd live on an island alone. My H and I BOTH have detached attachment styles. And it made us grow apart.

You would like him to show passion.

Sorry for the TJ.

June 24, 2013

I don't know about Canadian custody law, but isn't it possible he will fight for joint custody? I can't see it being OK with the law that you move far away and he only sees his daughter 3 times a year.

Idealistically, we'd like it to be joint custody. The problem with his career (as he's explained it to me) is that he either won't be able to (in the event of being sent on tour, or being sent out on field exercises).

The other possibility is that it could adversely affect his ability to make progress in his career.

Either way, this is something he and I need to talk about again. Every time the topic comes up (particularly to do with custody and finances) we seem to hit a brick wall. I grow frustrated with him, because I don't believe he fully knows what he claims to know about it. I think a lot of what he "knows" he's heard about from others he works with, about their divorces, and such.

And by the end of the conversation, we spend a couple of days, at odds with each other-just for him to go back, and pretend like everything is fine; he'll get cuddly with me again, start teasing me-I'm easily startled, so making me jump is a favourite past time of his-and spend a great deal of time getting too close, when he shouldn't be. I know I have yet to divulge the A to him, but all the other cards are on the table; I've even told him that I worry about him getting too close to me, only to deal with the initial fall when it comes. I've made it clear to him that I'm trying to emotionally prepare him for it, several times.

I don't feel any better than he does, every we talk about the eventuality of divorce; but if I don't bring it up, it's as though he slips into a state of denial.

June 24, 2013

Idealistically, we'd like it to be joint custody. The problem with his career (as he's explained it to me) is that he either won't be able to (in the event of being sent on tour, or being sent out on field exercises).

The other possibility is that it could adversely affect his ability to make progress in his career.

Either way, this is something he and I need to talk about again. Every time the topic comes up (particularly to do with custody and finances) we seem to hit a brick wall. I grow frustrated with him, because I don't believe he fully knows what he claims to know about it. I think a lot of what he "knows" he's heard about from others he works with, about their divorces, and such.

And by the end of the conversation, we spend a couple of days, at odds with each other-just for him to go back, and pretend like everything is fine; he'll get cuddly with me again, start teasing me-I'm easily startled, so making me jump is a favourite past time of his-and spend a great deal of time getting too close, when he shouldn't be. I know I have yet to divulge the A to him, but all the other cards are on the table; I've even told him that I worry about him getting too close to me, only to deal with the initial fall when it comes. I've made it clear to him that I'm trying to emotionally prepare him for it, several times.

I don't feel any better than he does, every we talk about the eventuality of divorce; but if I don't bring it up, it's as though he slips into a state of denial.

I suspect you are divorcing because you are in love with OM. You cannot stand your H as long as you love OM. I get that.

Why don't you confess? This will get the ball rolling. You are playing games and your H has no clue about what is really going on.

June 24, 2013

I suspect you are divorcing because you are in love with OM. You cannot stand your H as long as you love OM. I get that.

Why don't you confess? This will get the ball rolling. You are playing games and your H has no clue about what is really going on.

That's not the primary reason, but I won't deny that my feelings for my AP are galvanizing me to do what otherwise would have likely taken quite a bit longer.

I know I need to, and I will; I can't stress enough though, the importance of timing. The damage will likely be catastrophic, as is. Deciding when and where to drop the bomb is what I'm still working on. I know, it sounds like I'll never get around to it, or that I'm trying to protect my own skin. Believe me when I say, such isn't the case. The sooner, the better for me. I'm not sure the same can be said for him.

June 24, 2013

I know I have yet to divulge the A to him, but all the other cards are on the table; I've even told him that I worry about him getting too close to me, only to deal with the initial fall when it comes. I've made it clear to him that I'm trying to emotionally prepare him for it, several times.

I don't feel any better than he does, every we talk about the eventuality of divorce; but if I don't bring it up, it's as though he slips into a state of denial.

Wow. Your situation is, yet again, very similar to mine. From the opposite side of course. My WS talked about D. Often. WS's affair was an exit affair. WS had met a "soul mate." WS tried to prepare me so to speak.

I always thought WS would never have an affair much less an exit affair. I thought all the talk of D was just to let me know things were not good enough and I tried to make them better. I had no idea there was nothing I could have done.

Then on Dday my WS had a change of heart. WS wanted to keep the M. I had always told WS that if there were infidelity that would make me want the D. I was not bluffing. But I found out on Dday that I was wrong. I wanted to keep the M too.

WS found out after Dday that the "soul mate" was rather a different person than WS had thought. But even prior to that realization WS realized that WS did not want to exit the M after all. The M was troubled but WS decided to work on it instead of exit.

So other than just for personal integrity, there are reasons to tell your H about the affair. I'm sure you have heard many times that your H will fair much better if he hears it from you rather than discovers it some other way. You will feel better about yourself too.

One thing that is different about our situations is that my marriage was and is a very sexually passionate one. The affair was not. So that is an important difference.

I still think you should tell your H but I did not want to leave out that distinction. It may be that you can not tolerate a less than passionate marriage. But you should still tell your H regardless.

June 24, 2013

I'm sorry, but this reminds me of 'karma'. Can your 'single guy' ever really trust you? I think it will be in the back of his mind always. Can you ever really trust him? Contrary to what you think, he has been cheating - with you. I've always wondered how a relationship founded on dishonesty can ever work. Once the excitement is over (and it will be eventually), all you are left with is love and trust. It seems at least one of those elements will always be a challenge.

Do your husband a favor - either beg for forgiveness, go absolutely full disclosure, stop seeing the other man, stop lying (even by omission) and cheating, or separate and divorce him. He deserves better. He will never be happy with less than a whole woman (you can't be 'whole' - you are giving your heart to another).

June 24, 2013

Wow. Your situation is, yet again, very similar to mine. From the opposite side of course. My WS talked about D. Often. WS's affair was an exit affair. WS had met a "soul mate." WS tried to prepare me so to speak.

I always thought WS would never have an affair much less an exit affair. I thought all the talk of D was just to let me know things were not good enough and I tried to make them better. I had no idea there was nothing I could have done.

I think this may be another distinction (aside from the one you mention later in your post). Were you aware of your WS's feelings for the AP? As far as emotion, I've held nothing back from my H, in that regard. That itself, was difficult to talk about, but once it came out, I told him exactly how I felt about my AP. Despite the pain it causes him, he seems to be resigned. He's made comments about my feelings for my AP being both strong, and long-lasting.

Then on Dday my WS had a change of heart. WS wanted to keep the M. I had always
told WS that if there were infidelity that would make me want the D. I was not
bluffing. But I found out on Dday that I was wrong. I wanted to keep the M
too.

How long has it been? Sorry if you've previously explained that. I guess it takes being smack-dab in the middle of the decision-making process, in order to know which way you'll go. Is it going well?

WS found out after Dday that the "soul mate" was rather a different person than
WS had thought. But even prior to that realization WS realized that WS did not
want to exit the M after all. The M was troubled but WS decided to work on it
instead of exit.

In that regard, I'm glad it worked out for you.

So other than just for personal integrity, there are reasons to tell your H
about the affair. I'm sure you have heard many times that your H will fair much
better if he hears it from you rather than discovers it some other way. You will
feel better about yourself too.

Yes, I know this to be true. Knowing I need to do it, and acting on it are two different things. I need to do it, and soon. I'm still deeply conflicted as to when. Do you think there ever can be a right time to inform someone of something like this? I don't want to drop this on him at a time of great stress...but, I'm given to wonder if there's ever going to be a "right" time to do it.

One thing that is different about our situations is that my marriage was and is
a very sexually passionate one. The affair was not. So that is an important
difference.

We've lacked passion for the better majority of our relationship. Our first year and a half was pretty good. It's steadily declined from there-excluding when we started trying to conceive our daughter, and the tail end of my pregnancy, anyway.

There is clearly something wrong with me. He doesn't pursue sex very often, true, but even when he does, it takes forever to wear me down. The funny thing is, I have an incredibly good libido. I spend more time doing it the lonely way, than anything. You'd think I'd seek him out-something I know he'd like, now and then-but I just don't feel it. He's not unattractive, or anything, so I don't understand what's wrong with me. I mean he doesn't have the washboard thing going on, but that's never mattered. Further proof is in my AP. He's even less "conventionally" attractive, yet when we have been together, or if I even just think about it, it's incredible. Yeah, I feel like crap for saying that, but I can't ignore the truth.

I still think you should tell your H but I did not want to leave out that distinction. It may be that you can not tolerate a less than passionate marriage. But you should still tell your H regardless.

I promise you, I will tell him. With the way I've been feeling lately, it's has to happen soon, because I think I am quite literally losing my mind.

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