Trouble finding courage to date again after several years away

[qpalzm]

It’s been five+ years since my last relationship. It ended painfully, with my gf leaving me for my friend, then moving in with him in the next door apartment. I couldn’t sleep, eat, or break the lease. I just threw myself into my work, and went into an intense depression. Eventually I got out of there, but it was a year or two before I got over it. This was in my early twenties.

 

Now, many years later, I feel like I’m ready to try dating again. There are definitely women I’m interested in, and they seem friendly/receptive to me. I don’t usually have a problem talking to them, but I just can’t bring myself to ask them out. Even when I can build up the courage to ask them, I’m almost more nervous they’ll say yes, because of a few key worries holding me back. I could really use some help understanding/making sense of these. Please let me know if you have personal advice on the following:

 

 

1. “The worst thing that can happen is she says no.” <– people say this a lot, and I get it, but it seems to be missing a crucial detail: It's not like she just disappears after this. Most of the women I'm interested in are people I know- friends of mine, and friends with my friends. One of the things that happened with my last breakup, is we were both at a center of a tight group of friends, which basically got ripped in two as a result. I lost friends who I cared about, because they knew her first, and I couldn't ask them to not hang out with her, or participate in our trouble. How Isn't this still a risk when a friend rejects for a date? It seems like this gets ignored, but I must be missing something.

 

 

2. Bad at sex: It's been five years, I'm not good at sex anymore. Anxiety about being left after performing terribly the first (or first several) times haunts me, and keeps me from even taking the first step (asking her out). This seriously messes with my head. I did set about trying to fix this one systematically: getting better at sex without actually having sex is a tricky one, but I eventually bought a fleshlight (one of the stamina trainers), to try to build back up my ability to last longer. I just started this, so I have no idea if it will work, but I'm genuinely serious about it- The thing generally disgusts me, but I don't know a better way to get that skill back before I would need to perform.

 

 

3. Not in beach shape. I know this isn't necessary, and I have many out of shape friends with wonderful girlfriends, but I really don't want to feel instantly inadequate when I'm with a new girlfriend. Two reasons: For her (I want to be able to give her something she actually wants), and for me (I don't want to be constantly on edge that I'm going to lose her to someone more physically attractive) <– remember, this happened to me before.

 

I’m not ugly, and not in bad shape, but I could certainly be better. And definitely: if I can be confident that I look good, there's no need to invent some imaginary confidence out of the air. I'll have an actual reason to be confident about my looks.

 

 

Please advise me here! Am I crazy to think/do some of these things? I'm completely serious that I feel paralyzed by my past, and by some of these fears. Help me learn, so I can find someone to be happy with- I don't want to wait another five years.

 

-qpalzm

[shexy]

As far as #1 - I totally get that. Being female, I guess I have it easier in that it's "expected" for the man to ask the woman out. However, I worry about the rejection too, so I won't even flirt or act interested just because I don't want my interest to be rejected.

 

#2 - I think sex is like riding a bike - once you learn how the first time, you won't forget. And if you meet a great woman and you've been going out awhile, you can mention to her that's it's been awhile.....if she's a good woman, she'll totally understand.

 

#3 - I gots nuthin for this one.....I don't really care if a guy is buff or fit. I'm a lot more concerned with personality than body.

 

I get the fear of not wanting to date. Just the thought of even attempting to date right now makes me stressed out and anxious. I just can't deal with it right now.

[fishtaco]

Yeah, I've been through rough life situations, romance or not. I tend to throw myself into something productive, like work, or music. In response to your questions:

 

1. That's why my prefence is to hit up on complete strangers or acquaintences, not friends. Friends are like double or nothing. It's easier to date friends because there's no need for ice breaker, you already know each other... etc, but ONLY if things work out. If it doesn't you'll suffer the consequences. And chances are, your relationship isn't going to work out. Even for people that have found "the one", how many "not the ones" did they have before? It's not romantic, but practical, to plan ahead for what happens when things don't work out.

 

2. Actually the bad part comes from your mind. It's not like you lost something, hormone levels are low, or whatever. It's performance anxiety because you haven't been in this situation for so long. And it's purely mental. The only way around it, do it. Go try, and screw up. After a few times you'll get back on track.

 

3. Go work out. It's actually good for you even if women didn't exist. And as a bonus, it helps with women. You don't need to look like a celebrity, but the fact that you try to take care of yourself will earn you points, especially when you hit up on strangers and acquaintences, because they don't know you, so superficial things become more prominant in their decision making.

 

My recommendation is the same as any boxing coach would give you. Don't dance around and wait for the perfect chance and throw that one giant knock-out punch. Start throwing combos. It's the same thing. Date casually, for now. Don't take it seriously. If something serioius happens, congratulations. But unless one falls right in your lap, don't go for the knock-out punch, and just have fun. If you screw up, either the social part or the sex part, it doesn't really matter if you're dating a random stranger, you'll never see them again anyway. But really it doesn't matter - if a woman is in your bedroom with you naked, chances are, she has good enough of an impression of you that she'll give you a break. It most likely stil will not work out (assuming you screwed up somewhere), but as long as you don't bring drama, reasonable women won't have much bad things to say. In fact, if you own your failures, you'll gain respect even when you fail (by own it I don't mean dwell on it, then you'll look weak). And if she's not reasonable, then you've dodged a bullet. And that dodging of the bullet is worth 10 times the price of any crap she may talk on you. Win-win situation.

 

Dating is like anything else, the more you do it, the better you'll get at it. If you play basketball 3 times, do you expect to be able to join a pick-up game and do anything significant? No. So go hit up on three chicks. Chances are, nothing is going to happen. Which is actually better for you in the long run. If you get lucky and you score a relationship, you'll stop, and you won't get any better at this dating thing. Failing, will actually make you better, because then you'll make your modifications and try again. Then after that, three more. Rinse, repeat.

[qpalzm]

Thanks for the reply- I hear what you're saying about getting better with practice. That makes logical sense, but it seems like the risks are sky high compared to a pickup game. It seems like an all or nothing game: you stick your neck out, any either get lucky, or suffer consequences- no middle ground.

 

What does casual dating actually mean? Asking out women I'm not really into? Isn't that ...kind of cruel? Sure, I have the power in that situation, but if I'm not interested, I'm just using them. And if I am interested, then there's something to lose if I'm rejected. And how would you know if you want to date a stanger?

 

Thanks again for the help. I've tied myself into knots with these issues, and I really want to move on. If my responses sound convoluted- I'm just posting them because it's exactly what I'll say to myself the next time this comes up.

Edited June 19, 2013 by qpalzm

[fishtaco]

Thanks for the reply- I hear what you're saying about getting better with practice. That makes logical sense, but it seems like the risks are sky high compared to a pickup game. What does casual dating actually mean? Asking out women I'm not really into? Isn't that ...kind of cruel? Sure, I have the power in that situation, but if I'm not interested, I'm just using them. And if I am interested, then there's something to lose if I'm rejected. And how would you know if you want o date a complete stanger?

 

Thanks again for the help. I've tied myself into knots with these issues, and I really want to break free.

 

Risk are sky high? What are you talking about? Worst that can happen is it doesn't work out.

 

Also, I date in Los Angeles, where this dating thing is hard-core cut-throat. People use people all the time. So no, I have no qualms about "using women", because I'm equally likely to be used. It's a risk both sides take.

 

So I'm only mildly attracted to her, but I go on a few dates with her. Am I using her? Or maybe I'm being nice and giving her a chance to see what could happen? What if a hot chick above your league (which BTW, never feel that a chick is above your league, that's self-defeating attitude) decides to go on a few dates with you to see what you've got. Is she using you, or do you welcome the chance to prove yourself? Remember, when you go on a date, you're paying for everything. If anything the men have a higher chance of being used, because we have to pay upfront no matter what.

 

As you see, you can always spin it. The only difference with people on moral high-grounds is that they have better excuses. 95% of the people out there do the same damn things. It is what it is.

 

Of course, as with anything you read on the internet, use your own mental filters. Maybe where you date it's not like Los Angeles. I only know what I know, so this is my recommendation.

[qpalzm]

I've never understood the whole "Worst that can happen" thing. If it doesn't work out, the consequences could be really bad for you. If you know her, it could be painful/awkward, messing with your social life. If you don't, you might not be able to go back to that cafe she works at, etc. Seeing her in public would be frequent reminder of the rejection. She could end up with a someone you know later, which you can't easily get away from it without potentially losing friends.

 

Totally serious here: What keeps people from worrying about these things? Or are there strategies to avoid them?

Edited June 19, 2013 by qpalzm

[fishtaco]

I've never understood the whole "Worst that can happen" thing. If it doesn't work out, the consequences could be really bad for you. If you know her, it could be painful/awkward, messing with your social life. If you don't, you might not be able to go back to that cafe she works at, etc. Seeing her in public would be frequent reminder of the rejection. She could end up with a someone you know later, which you can't easily get away from it without potentially losing friends.

 

Totally serious here: What keeps people from worrying about these things? Or are there strategies to avoid them?

 

Yeah, this is why you don't date co-workers for example. Hence my preference is to date strangers. If it doesn't work out, you'll probably never see them again. Or acquaintances, where the social circle impact is minimal.

 

Also, if you can't handle rejections you shouldn't date. You'll be rejected WAY MORE than not rejected. A long time ago there was a discussion here on LS, women say they would not date 90% of the men they meet. That sounds about right. So as a man, be prepared to get rejected.

 

Frequent reminder that you got rejected should not even bother you. I've been rejected plenty of times, some of them are still in my extended social circle. This particular chick rejected me, but it took me talking to her to finalize the rejection, because she didn't want to do it. So I gave her the let's be friends talk even though she should be the one doing it.

 

Luckily, I was dating other women at the same time, so I just moved on without any drama, and gave her a very nice "let's be friends" parting email (I tried calling her but she wouldn't call me back, so I had to do the email thing). I did everything I could to make it easy for her. So I'd say I've done my part exceeding well.

 

Soon after that, there was some event a bunch of us were going to, she asked if she could carpool, but by then I was already sleeping with this other chick I was seeing, so I told her sorry, under normal circumstances I would totally carpool with you, but I'm bringing the new chick and I think it would be sort of inappropriate. I was nice about it, so was she. Later that year she even came to my birthday party.

 

I believe she is still single, but I've already dated at least one more after the chick I was sleeping with at the time (her choice BTW, she didn't want a relationship, I offered), and now I'm in an exclusive committed relationship with yet another woman. So even though she rejected me, why is that a bad thing in any way, shape or form? We were both civilized, and that's what counts.

 

So I don't know why you're so worried about this.

[qpalzm]

I see what you mean. I realized while reading that that the part that doesn't click with me is that you were able to move on, an were already dating other people.

 

I don't have a lot of a faith I can attract even one person to date me (who I'd like to date), let alone date multiple at once. So every rejection feels like more reason to believe it'll never work out for me (regardless of how crazy that is- I'm not very good with having faith).

 

For instance: amazing girl turns me down- why should I have faith I'll find someone else as good? And if I can, how many of those chances will I get? That makes each one super important (and each failure feel like more of a loss).

 

I know how that sounds- it's a problem for me. Again, not bull****ting any of this. Thanks for the help.

[fishtaco]

I know how that sounds- it's a problem for me. Again, not bull****ting any of this. Thanks for the help.

 

I see. That actually comes with experience. I'll use boxing as an analogy again. When you first get punched in the face, by your trainer, or someone you're sparring with, you think.... holy crap!!!! Then you flinch, you cower, you freeze up. But really what you should do is take the punch (you've been punch already... too late, what can you do?), keep your eyes open and watching your opponent, because they could be throwing more punches, find the opportunity to counter punch/slip away.

 

How do you do that? How do you re-program your instincts to flinch? By getting punched enough times that it's no longer a big deal.

 

Now don't get me wrong, it never "doesn't hurt". A punch hurts period, but unless it's a good solid one, it won't take you out of your game.

 

Same thing with rejections. Once you've taken enough rejections, not that it doesn't sting, but you know how to handle it, how to roll with it, and what you should do next.

 

So what you need to do is to go out and get rejected. Don't take it seriously. Treat it as a game/experiment. If I do this, how is she going to respond? Within reason of course, I don't condone any harassment type behavior. Dating is a giant social experiment. You have to push the limits. Try different things. Find what you can get away with and not get away with. For example, I never buy women drinks if I'm hitting up on them. If they are my friends, absolutely. But if I'm trying to hook up? No drinks. I don't pay for my face time. Why? Because I found out I can do this without buying drinks. It actually messes me up because I don't want the woman to stick around and talk to me for 15 minutes because she felt obligated after the drink. If she's not interested I want her to go away so I can go hit up on someone else. And NO WOMAN is going to go from no way to yes let's hook up just because of one drink.

 

Also, I've approached women for sex in a very direct manner and pissed them off, and then sweet talked my way out of it. I still didn't get sex, but I diffused the situation, because I spun it like it was a compliment, believe it or not, not all women are bitches, and they actually feel bad turning you down. I also learned not to be direct even when the woman wants sex. Women operate with euphemisms. Finesse them into the situation then naked things will happen. "Hey let's go to my house for sex." Even if the woman wants to, she'll say no. But find an excuse to get her there... and you BOTH know that's on your mind, women are not stupid, but you'll have a much better chance. It's really just a dog and pony show. But you have to know how to put on the show.

 

So these are the social experiments I'm talking about. I failed, oh yes, many times, but each time I learned something.

[Ninjainpajamas]

I see what you mean. I realized while reading that that the part that doesn't click with me is that you were able to move on, an were already dating other people.

 

I don't have a lot of a faith I can attract even one person to date me (who I'd like to date), let alone date multiple at once. So every rejection feels like more reason to believe it'll never work out for me (regardless of how crazy that is- I'm not very good with having faith).

 

For instance: amazing girl turns me down- why should I have faith I'll find someone else as good? And if I can, how many of those chances will I get? That makes each one super important (and each failure feel like more of a loss).

 

I know how that sounds- it's a problem for me. Again, not bull****ting any of this. Thanks for the help.

 

Your biggest issue overall is confidence and that can take a process in rebuilding that. Right now you're like an army in tatters that suffered a great defeat and needs to rebuild that confidence to get back into the fight with some zing. It's a challenge because moral is low and just that state of mind is self-defeating on it's own, the worse will always be anticipated and expected...and that's not the way to succeed, you have to shake off those fears and take everything as is.

 

Confidence can be built learning strategies and processes that work for you that you feel good doing and are comfortable with which varies, the problem is developing those methods and having the courage to take risks and learn from your mistakes, refining yourself and how you engage women in general. You have to remember that it's normal to have fear, but that doesn't dictate the fact that you're going to fail, you have to practice being courageous and just doing your best, trying not to take to heart your failures. Therefore It's better to set your expectations way low or don't have any at all and just look at it as more of a reintegration program than for you to expect yourself to hit the ground running and meet this standard or expectation...right now you've already set some massive mental/psychological barriers...you basically lost the fight before you even got into the ring.

 

You'll want to just take steps in talking to women, just having conversations and essentially "putting yourself out there" not necessarily as dating material but just for casual conversation and for the sake of socializing, being friendly and getting to know people. Many men overlook this simple social interaction, and others tries way too hard establish it.

 

Keep it simple and low-risk and simply converse with others and you'll realize that dating can be that simple, you'd be surprised at what can develop by simply learning to be more social, opportunities are much easier to come by and it's much less forward...you don't have to engage every woman as a this high-stakes gamble of win or lose, and then start to think way down the road about this and that....have a short-term memory and carefree attitude and most important try to find your flow rather than forcing an interaction...it may be intimidating and embarrassing at first but you're going to realize that you're psychological fears are much worse and less justified than the reality, unless you're one of those people who manifest their greatest fears by perpetuating that with a bad attitude.

 

Rejection does suck and it can be hard to let it go...but the way to avoid that is limit your investment and expectations in any given situation, it'll roll off your back much easier if you don't put the monkey on your back to start with...remind yourself nothing is the end of the world and this is never the last girl, there's millions of people on the planet and there will always be someone new to be interested in and/or date...don't let one person or even a group of people determine your self-worth or what you're capable of, instead learn and refine yourself....just take everything as a lesson and learning experience because everybody fails, everybody has been rejected in some shape or form and it's all relative, nobody just feels on top of the world all the time because even if they did that just makes the fall much harder to bear.

 

In the end be bold, be courageous, don't be afraid to make a fool of yourself (you'll be an old fart 60 years from now and nobody will give a damn!) and that takes stepping out of your shell...even if you make a mistake just go with it and accept it, if you're too self-conscious all the time and worried about the negative results you're not going to react when you should and you're going to wait too long and talk yourself out of it...all the things you mentioned as fears can be addressed and you'll find that you're making a bigger deal about them than others will...many may not notice or even care, and you don't have to act apprehensive and scared...talk to yourself and just tell yourself you're going to do this and to the best of your ability and you'll figure it out.

 

Your faith in yourself will develop overtime by by being confident in yourself and if you fail, don't cry over it, just learn from it.

[ChessPieceFace]

It’s been five+ years since my last relationship. It ended painfully, with my gf leaving me for my friend, then moving in with him in the next door apartment.

 

You should apply for sainthood. I'd probably become a double murderer in that situation.