Author Hoops Posted June 21, 2013 Author Posted June 21, 2013 Hoops, I think you need to remove yourself from your self appointed victim role. You're deflecting responsibilty and projecting your guilt to your wife. Take responsibility for the situation, tell your wife and work from there. Counselling is at best a waste of time and money if you're hiding such a huge betrayal. I suspect that your goal with MC is to make your wife look like the one who is responsible for the poor state of the marriage and then have the counsellors approval of you being the victim - is this true? I think I've been completely honest and straight with all my posts on this forum so I hope you continue to acknowledge what I say here, even if you peoples don't agree or like me much for saying it. No, that is not my goal for MC. I want to be in a relationship that I appreciate and value again. I want a whole family, and to raise my young daughter in a loving household. I feel like I have already given up hope for this. But it IS what I want. What we both want. All attempts to talk thru problems ultimately failed. The affair would never had happened if er had not repeatedly failed at that. As for the affair, I still don't feel much remorse or guilt about it. I'm not sure why. I know I should. Maybe Im emotionally vacant, but I'm not like that normally. Maybe I still feel like my wife, despite frequent pleas for attention, let me slip away. I don't know. I will let you know if i figure that bit out.
Confused48 Posted June 21, 2013 Posted June 21, 2013 You don't feel remorse bc you don't love her. It could be you don't love her bc she is an abusive unlovable monster. But if she is, why are you trying so hard to make this work? Get out. Or as some here have suggested maybe its you. Maybe she is not abusive and you are just a cheater looking for excuses. I hope not. Nothing excuses what you did but if she is abusive, guess what? Abuse does justify leaving. So grow a set and leave.
Saba Posted June 23, 2013 Posted June 23, 2013 I think I've been completely honest and straight with all my posts on this forum so I hope you continue to acknowledge what I say here, even if you peoples don't agree or like me much for saying it. No, that is not my goal for MC. I want to be in a relationship that I appreciate and value again. I want a whole family, and to raise my young daughter in a loving household. I feel like I have already given up hope for this. But it IS what I want. What we both want. All attempts to talk thru problems ultimately failed. The affair would never had happened if er had not repeatedly failed at that. As for the affair, I still don't feel much remorse or guilt about it. I'm not sure why. I know I should. Maybe Im emotionally vacant, but I'm not like that normally. Maybe I still feel like my wife, despite frequent pleas for attention, let me slip away. I don't know. I will let you know if i figure that bit out. A relationship where you are appreciated and valued!!! Don't go to MC. If you care anything for your wife don't go to MC. You sound selfish and vindictive and if you are emotionally vacant what is the point? You blame your wife for your affair. Nothing good can come from you trying to fix your wife in MC. You are emotionally vacant..... fix yourself.
LilGirlandOW Posted June 23, 2013 Posted June 23, 2013 Hoops, I feel for you, I'm the OW to a MM in the exact same situation. He's been miserable for years, and stays for the kids. He and I have an amazing connection, after 6mnths into A he said he was in love with me, and I him, and we're on month 9 now and the only thing that really gets to me is the lonliness of not having him around all the time When we are together its like we are on cloud 9, amazing, we connect in every way possible, when we are apart, yeah we still connect in various ways, and i get the random "i miss you" and "i love you" messages, but I can understand where your OW is coming from about wanting someone who will scream "this is my woman" and not just be his secret partner. With my MM, I know I would treat him like a king forever, never loved anybody like i do him, we've become bestfriends as well as lovers, but sometimes life gets in the way right? I wish you the best Hoops, with whatever outcome you find. Thought you might appreciate the OW perspective
2sunny Posted June 23, 2013 Posted June 23, 2013 I think I've been completely honest and straight with all my posts on this forum so I hope you continue to acknowledge what I say here, even if you peoples don't agree or like me much for saying it. No, that is not my goal for MC. I want to be in a relationship that I appreciate and value again. I want a whole family, and to raise my young daughter in a loving household. I feel like I have already given up hope for this. But it IS what I want. What we both want. All attempts to talk thru problems ultimately failed. The affair would never had happened if er had not repeatedly failed at that. As for the affair, I still don't feel much remorse or guilt about it. I'm not sure why. I know I should. Maybe Im emotionally vacant, but I'm not like that normally. Maybe I still feel like my wife, despite frequent pleas for attention, let me slip away. I don't know. I will let you know if i figure that bit out. That a lot of sentences that involve the word "I". Half of your problem is you think too much of how you feel. Not enough of your wife's feelings. You don't like how YOU feel? Get divorced and be on your own! No wife would choose to be around a guy that's that selfish, self centered and spewing his nasty attitude onto family members. You're not even remorseful? Set your wife free! She's probably sick of you thinking so much of yourself. She could be free to find a living and giving partner in life - one that's capable of fidelity and thinking of HER feelings before his own. 1
LilGirlandOW Posted June 23, 2013 Posted June 23, 2013 I disagree with above post, yes he should divorce if he's unhappy. But Hoops you need to live life for yourself!! and your children, keeping in mind that kids eventually leave home, then whats left for you, you and her living unhappily together? Live life to the fullest, and create a pathway to your own happiness but always keep your children with you in your heart when you cant be there in person, my xH and I have been seperated for a year now and I allow him access to the kids whenever he wants cause as he may not have been the best H, he's always been an amazing dad. Live life for you Hoops! 1
2sunny Posted June 23, 2013 Posted June 23, 2013 I disagree with above post, yes he should divorce if he's unhappy. But Hoops you need to live life for yourself!! and your children, keeping in mind that kids eventually leave home, then whats left for you, you and her living unhappily together? Live life to the fullest, and create a pathway to your own happiness but always keep your children with you in your heart when you cant be there in person, my xH and I have been seperated for a year now and I allow him access to the kids whenever he wants cause as he may not have been the best H, he's always been an amazing dad. Live life for you Hoops! You "allow" him access to HIS kids? How generous of you. It's usually in the kids best interest to have both parents in their lives as much as possible! That's why courts generally give 50/50 custody now. Allowing? That seems like you think you have all the power over the kids. Don't fool yourself. Read the OP typed words carefully - he's very selfish and not sorry he cheated. His wife deserves better!
LilGirlandOW Posted June 23, 2013 Posted June 23, 2013 Where I live 50/50 is definetly not typical. Its usually everyother weekend and a day or two in off week. We never went to family court and he can see them at any time, right now i'd say we do a 60/40 split, because its what I and him want, the courts here are different than where you are i guess. Just because you sign that piece of paper, doesnt mean you're entitled to ANYTHING from your H or W if you dont yourself put in effort, his post clearly states she's been distant and unaffectionate, etc etc etc. Message to H/W out there, you put a ***** effort in your M, expect ***** in return! My H, put a terrible effort in being a great H, I left him, he tried with the blah blah blah i can change this can work BS, I wasnt buying it. The dynamic of a R may change after M and kids, but the effort has to always be there or it'll never work! 1
2sunny Posted June 23, 2013 Posted June 23, 2013 Where I live 50/50 is definetly not typical. Its usually everyother weekend and a day or two in off week. We never went to family court and he can see them at any time, right now i'd say we do a 60/40 split, because its what I and him want, the courts here are different than where you are i guess. Just because you sign that piece of paper, doesnt mean you're entitled to ANYTHING from your H or W if you dont yourself put in effort, his post clearly states she's been distant and unaffectionate, etc etc etc. Message to H/W out there, you put a ***** effort in your M, expect ***** in return! My H, put a terrible effort in being a great H, I left him, he tried with the blah blah blah i can change this can work BS, I wasnt buying it. The dynamic of a R may change after M and kids, but the effort has to always be there or it'll never work! I'm sure cheating on your spouse make the M better, right? It builds trust with your spouse to live the lies everyday and disrespect your spouse that much, right? Think about it - the cheating and broken trust will always sour any M.
LilGirlandOW Posted June 23, 2013 Posted June 23, 2013 No and A never enhances a M thats for sure. I think there should be a comma between relationships in your life... But I understand how they happen thats for sure, all i'm sayin.. 1
ThroneofTerra Posted June 23, 2013 Posted June 23, 2013 2Sunny, nothing justifies cheating on your spouse,so I'm not gonna ask you to show sympathy for the original poster. I'm asking you to show understanding. If even part of what he said is true,his wife is and always has been the true source of the problem. Did he handle it well? Frankly, no. But he's human like you or and therefore fallible. Whatever happened to make their marriage like this,he obviously either thought he could handle it, OR he didn't see it coming. Make no mistake: there is no way this all goes back to him. He's clearly worked to meet her halfway,and if she's too self-absorbed or full-blown crazy to see that, then he likely felt he didn't have many available options. And before the haters pile on me for saying that,remember that I'm not necessarily saying this is even all her fault. Sometimes? Sometimes,it was just not meant to be. Hoops, I'm sorry you did what you did,it was an evil thing to do,but I hope you find peace. Best of luck 1
Saba Posted June 23, 2013 Posted June 23, 2013 (edited) 2Sunny, nothing justifies cheating on your spouse,so I'm not gonna ask you to show sympathy for the original poster. I'm asking you to show understanding. If even part of what he said is true,his wife is and always has been the true source of the problem. Did he handle it well? Frankly, no. But he's human like you or and therefore fallible. Whatever happened to make their marriage like this,he obviously either thought he could handle it, OR he didn't see it coming. Make no mistake: there is no way this all goes back to him. He's clearly worked to meet her halfway,and if she's too self-absorbed or full-blown crazy to see that, then he likely felt he didn't have many available options. And before the haters pile on me for saying that,remember that I'm not necessarily saying this is even all her fault. Sometimes? Sometimes,it was just not meant to be. Hoops, I'm sorry you did what you did,it was an evil thing to do,but I hope you find peace. Best of luck Urgh really! Cheating absolutely all goes back to him. Does that mean he is the devil incarnate, well obviously not, but come on, his wife is the true source of the problem? How could you know that from what he has posted. It does not sound like that at all to me. He is playing the victim, to justify his actions. Edited June 23, 2013 by Saba I am tired and can't spell 3
2sunny Posted June 23, 2013 Posted June 23, 2013 2Sunny, nothing justifies cheating on your spouse,so I'm not gonna ask you to show sympathy for the original poster. I'm asking you to show understanding. If even part of what he said is true,his wife is and always has been the true source of the problem. Did he handle it well? Frankly, no. But he's human like you or and therefore fallible. Whatever happened to make their marriage like this,he obviously either thought he could handle it, OR he didn't see it coming. Make no mistake: there is no way this all goes back to him. He's clearly worked to meet her halfway,and if she's too self-absorbed or full-blown crazy to see that, then he likely felt he didn't have many available options. And before the haters pile on me for saying that,remember that I'm not necessarily saying this is even all her fault. Sometimes? Sometimes,it was just not meant to be. Hoops, I'm sorry you did what you did,it was an evil thing to do,but I hope you find peace. Best of luck What I DO understand is - a spouse who intends to cheat ought to get their divorce final before moving into their next shag or R. His ACTIONS are what HE is responsible for. You can't convince me she made him cheat. 1
janedoe67 Posted June 23, 2013 Posted June 23, 2013 Sometimes I think it helps to go back to the most basic of questions: Is adultery,cheating on one's spouse (or cheating with someone on a spouse), lying, deceit right or wrong? Let me ask that again - is it right ir wrong? No buts or ifs or qualifications, just a yes or no answer. Believe me, I have lots of buts and qualifications for my own situation but at the end of the day I know because I am willing to not lie to myself that cheating/lying/deceit/adultery is wrong. So when push comes to shove I then ask - is what I did wrong, regardless of why I did it? Once those questions have been honestly answered then all the supposedly hard questions about whether or not I should keep doing it really just depend on the kind of person I want to be. 4
Author Hoops Posted June 23, 2013 Author Posted June 23, 2013 There are a lot of "black and white" opinions on here I think. I have performed some selfish acts. Does that make me a selfish person? Some people reading that will instantly think "YES!!". But I have performed some very unselfish acts. Many in fact. So I can write this sentence also: I have performed some unselfish acts. Does that make me an unselfish person? Or maybe its just that I am a person. Capable of both. And just maybe I am not wholly defined (or labelled) by one aspect of my life, or one chapter in my life story. I don't think I blamed my wife for my affair. If that came across in this thread, then it certainly isn't how I feel. But I certainly feel that her behaviour in our relationship left me feeling lonely, and in need of attention and intimacy. My bad decision (which I accept totally was MY decision, and a bad one) to flirt and fish for attention on the internet would never have happened if my relationship was in good shape. Some people on this forum must think I had one bad experience with my wife and hopped and skipped my way to infidelity. Where the reality is that it took many months and years of neglect, arguments, conversations of "sharing feelings" that never improved things, etc etc, and a general slow deterioration of our relationship (and my self esteem) to get to the point where I just didn't give a fugg about or marriage. Over the course of those MANY months and years, had she put some effort in, it would have given me HOPE. It's very easy to say "oh well thats still completely unforgivable what you did" but at what point do you think I should have moved out? Was it one of those nights that I spent in a hotel up the road (alone!!), upset, lonely, and unable to cope, during the last year before my affair started? Maybe one of those weeks when life was like that I should have packed my things and moved out. Oh hang on, I dont have any money and nowhere to go, given that every cent of my income (like most peoples) goes towards the household mortgage and other bills. Perhaps I didn't want to completely fugg up our financial affairs, life with my daughter and everything else when deep down I hoped things would get better. It takes a huge amount of effort and upheaval to move out / seperate. It takes barely any effort to make a bad decision and register on a dating website for "a bit of a flirt". I would also point out that I didn't really realize how addictive it would be to get emails from someone saying nice things about me. You want to be preoccupied with my bad decisions? What about some recognition for some of my good ones - like the many many times during those two years before my affair that I didn't start flirting on the internet. What about my good decision not to return the blatent offer of an affair from my ex-girlfriend (bumped into her a couple of years ago, she wanted to re-kindle - so I kept well away). That would have been very easy and I was tempted, but I made good decisions - and kept well away and didn't do anything that would make me more tempted. (and no, I don't want a medal, thankyou very much. I am just making the point that I, like everyone, am capable of both good and bad decisions). Perhaps there are men (and women) out there that have a great life, happy relationship, etc, and yet still decide to have a quickie on the side. That wasn't me. I was feeling hopeless for my relationship, and made a series of small, stupid mistakes that lead to one hellova big mistake. I started this thread saying how heartbroken I felt. Things feel better now (not that many of you care), because although I still am feeling the loss of my OW (whom I have genuine feelings for), my wife has agreed to go to MC. If it fails, it fails, but right now I can see my wife actually wants to DO something about improving our marriage. It gives me hope for my family for the first time in a very long time.
waterwoman Posted June 23, 2013 Posted June 23, 2013 Oh hoops, why do you say we don't care? If this didn't resonate so painfully with me I would just say 'meh', shrug and leave you to it'. Thing is, if you post here, you want something from us. You aren't ready to throw in the towel. So I would like to help. Am I immediately sympathetic? Nope, I admit that your initial post put my hackles up. 'I've cheated, I've done something unbelievable cruel and rejecting to my sick wife but it's all her fault!' See? Put like that it's hard to see you as the victim, no? Of course it isn't that simple. We all know that. But until you stop seeing yourself as the reasonable man forced into infidelity your b%tch of a wife, you are going to get nowhere. She was less than satisfactory as a wife. You cheated. The two statements are totally unrelated, non-seqiturs. The one SHOULD not lead to another. The first should lead to MC and/or divorce. Once you accept that you can start to address the issues you have in your marriage . Btw confessing to your affair would be a damned good start!!! Good luck hoops x 3
Spark1111 Posted June 24, 2013 Posted June 24, 2013 no offense Hoops, but when people have affairs they tend to rewrite the marital history and tend to paint the BS as very black and white: they were unloving, uncaring, etc. But YOU had choices too, every step of the way. You are NOT the complete victim here, c'mon! You CHOSE to have a child with her. Surely you realized that child is a lifelong commitment and by proximity, to the child's mother whether you remain married or divorce her. You KNEW she had health issues which depressed her and left her in pain, and YOU chose to marry her anyways. You STARTED to realize how addictive these Internet sites were and proceeded to engage with this woman anyhow. You need to OWN your choices and if they are not making you happy, you NEED to choose differently. OR, you can continue to perceive yourself as a feather on a breeze being swept along by circumstances outside of your control. WHAT is it you are seeking from us? 3
Zenstudent Posted June 24, 2013 Posted June 24, 2013 Hoops, it's very easy to feel your pain in your latest post. And I think we all understand, at least I do, that everybody is capable of making both right and wrong decissions. The trouble is, that it's the wrong decissions you seek redemption for without taking ownership. Read the two posts from WW and Sparks again. And I would like to re-iterate, MC is worthless without honesty. The work on your part must start with being honest. Make good choices from here on.
2sunny Posted June 24, 2013 Posted June 24, 2013 Hoops, it's very easy to feel your pain in your latest post. And I think we all understand, at least I do, that everybody is capable of making both right and wrong decissions. The trouble is, that it's the wrong decissions you seek redemption for without taking ownership. Read the two posts from WW and Sparks again. And I would like to re-iterate, MC is worthless without honesty. The work on your part must start with being honest. Make good choices from here on. I agree with the above... And a good start would be being completely honest with your wife - about the things you've done, what you don't like about the M and how you can both work towards a common goal of fixing the M. But it won't be authentic until you tell her what she doesn't know. And when she knows - she can decide if she intends to change her part in it or not. And you can decide if you intend to change the way you participate as well - or not. A good starting point would be honesty - then determine what you both intend to do moving forward.
janedoe67 Posted June 24, 2013 Posted June 24, 2013 But it won't be authentic until you tell her what she doesn't know. There is a multitude of wisdom in this simple sentence.
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