macy Posted June 18, 2013 Posted June 18, 2013 My divorce was final at the end of Feb after 16 years of marriage. If you've read my previous posts he cheated multiple times. I forgave after the first confession but after the second moved to divorce. We have 2 kids ages 15 and 11. He is now engaged after dating a girl for a short time. They are marrying this month. I have been the bigger person with a lot of issues for the kids sake. I swallowed my pain and pride many times over many issues regarding him. He has been a good father in the sense of seeing them when he should but he doesn't communicate well with them and they have always felt closer to me. He's an avoider by nature and basically does what he wants and has the attitude that everyone else around him needs to just fall into place. I'm not perfect in the sense I was always peachy nice to him when I saw him and we'd discuss issues. But I have been civil as much as humanly possible. Recently he owed me money per the divorce agreement. He got a very large cash, tax free, bonus. He paid some bills he was required to but still owed me a significant sum. He decided that he didn't have to pay that amount because he willingly paid for a little over half the carpet to be replaced in our home last year. It fact he added more to the deduction than he should have. I have a feeling this is because he's now paying for this wedding to his younger new girlfriend. I was mad of course and told him I didn't want to talk to him ever again. I told him I hated him. I have never even through all the pain of the divorce ever said that to him. I guess I never felt true hate towards him so why say it. Lately I'm not so sure. Maybe not hate but I have a sense of just leave me alone and stay away from me. He craves very much to have a good, civil, great relationship with me, and I know this is because its easier for him in his own mind. I think it truly helps his sense of guilt. I've played along because it helps the kids. But damn it, I'm mad and can't stand playing nice all the time. It felt good to tell him to not talk to me and that I hated him! Bad I know. He had the kids all weekend and so there was no contact. It felt good. I got the kids back last night. Now this morning, after asking him to not talk to me, he's emailed me twice over stupid issues with the kids that have already been answered and are quit obvious. I'm a teacher, so I have summers off. I'm home now and he wanted to know if I was taking our son to his orthodontist appt today. Then wanted to tell me he had forgotten my sons retainer and that he'd make sure that he'd remember next time. All seems like normal parent talk but he would never bother with this normally. Can you NC when you have kids? Or modified nc? It helps so much when I'm not wrapped up in his nonsense and his need to make everything ok in his head.
Author macy Posted June 18, 2013 Author Posted June 18, 2013 Sorry for the typos. Typing fast on a phone.
iris219 Posted June 18, 2013 Posted June 18, 2013 Can you NC when you have kids? Or modified nc? It helps so much when I'm not wrapped up in his nonsense and his need to make everything ok in his head. No, you can't, not until the children are older. You can (and should), however, only have contact that is absolutely necessary and about the children. He emailed you about the child's retainer. That sounds appropriate. It's a positive thing that he wants to have a civil relationship with you. And he's trying to be a good father. That's all you can expect from him. I understand he was an a*s in your marriage, but that's over now. He's not your problem anymore, thank god. What else do you want from him? As far as the money situation goes, talk to your lawyer. I know you're angry, but you need to try to put this aside for the sake of your children and for your own sanity. By being angry, you give him the power to make you feel bad. Don't give him this power! Focus on what makes you happy. You have to start creating a life that is satisfying for yourself so that you don't think what he's doing or what's he's done. You will get to a point where you rarely think about him. Have you considered therapy? It might be what you need right now.
Author macy Posted June 18, 2013 Author Posted June 18, 2013 You are right, of course. I am envious of people who can go full nc. Don't get me wrong, I love my kids and wouldn't trade them for anything. He's very type A personality and very passive aggressive. He just does shady crap and never wants to discuss it. He wants everyone to act and behave as he thinks they should. Basically he owed me $12,000. He said he was coming to pick them up and give me the check. Which was weird because he always just wire transfers but I didn't give it much thought. Well he handed me a sealed envelope and said here you go. We chit chatted about the kids, and as he was leaving I opened the envelop and realized he wrote it for $8,000. I asked why, thinking he was going to give me the remaining at another date. He said it was because he helped with the carpet and he feels he should be able to deduct from that amount. Please don't feel bad for him. This was only a very small amount of what he received from the bonus. I'm too tired to even care or fight him on it. This is just one example. There are many more. Yes, I guess you're right. I should play along and be friends even though I know it's only to ease his own mind. Believe me I have played along for a long time. It just gets old and exhausting. You just want them gone. Never going to happen when you have kids.
iris219 Posted June 18, 2013 Posted June 18, 2013 Yes, I guess you're right. I should play along and be friends even though I know it's only to ease his own mind. Believe me I have played along for a long time. It just gets old and exhausting. You just want them gone. Never going to happen when you have kids. No, I'm not suggesting this at all. He is not your friend nor should he be. You should be civil when you communicate with him about the children. Keep it your interactions neutral, business-like, and minimal. I'd speak with your lawyer about the money he owes you. 1
jf2good Posted June 18, 2013 Posted June 18, 2013 Is the money for child support or something else? If not child support, let it go. People go through the whole process of divorce and then get all hung up over a few grand or even a even a few hundred. He may be wrong but your wrong too to let him get under your skin over this. Life is too short, move on. He did, well partially anyway. You have children, to go NC is not punishing him but the children. 1
Author macy Posted June 18, 2013 Author Posted June 18, 2013 No, it's not child support related just part of the settlement agreement. Yes, I'm letting it go. It's not worth the aggravation to involve lawyers and fight about it. More annoying and status quo for him. I hear you...I do... And I know I have to deal with him forever. I think maybe I was just dreaming and venting here . Onward and upward.
Snowflower Posted June 18, 2013 Posted June 18, 2013 I don't agree with those who say you're doing something wrong by wanting limited contact (LC) with your xH. I think he is yanking your chain and using these texts or contacts with you regarding your children as the "chain." Same with the money issue. Try to remain calm. Respond to his texts about the kids as needed but keep it brief unless there is a pressing issue with the kids. (Really? A retainer? Your son would have explained if he had left it at his Dad's) Check with your lawyer regarding the outstanding money he owes you. It seems you have been calm and positive throughout all this. So what if you lost your cool recently!
phillygirl Posted June 18, 2013 Posted June 18, 2013 (edited) NO. When children are involved, going NC with their other parent (absent of abuse or neglectful behavior) is a no-go. Inevitably, it's the kids who get hurt. The sad reality is that when we decide to parent with someone, we are linked to them, sometimes for life.... ...despite how much of a knuckle-dragging Neandrathal they might be. In other words, don't sweat the money. If he's paying CS and you're not "trickin' under a bridge for your next meal", let it go.... Set boundaries, remain cordial (but not a door-mat) and deal with your emotional full-out from his infidelity. Also, I agree with the other post: Get yourself into therapy. It will help. Best! Edited June 18, 2013 by phillygirl 1
Author macy Posted June 18, 2013 Author Posted June 18, 2013 Also regarding the money... I'm an educator, so my salary isn't wonderful but love my job. Even with child support and alimony factored in, he literally still makes 4 times what I do. With his huge bonus I figured he'd follow through. Whatever. I'm letting it go. Sf, You know, it feels good to stand up and tell him to take a hike. Ha! I know I can't just cut him off with the kids involved. 1
Author macy Posted June 18, 2013 Author Posted June 18, 2013 And yes he likes yanking my chain in passive aggressive ways. I know him very well. But, the minute he knows and senses I've had enough he starts being civil again. I am going to try therapy. I'm honestly feeling pretty good. I've been alone for over a year now with the sep/divorce combined. It's been a process. I went to a therapist in the beginning and I felt like I got nothing from her. She would just sit there and listen and offer nothing. After about 4 visits I would sometimes sit there and wonder what the heck am I doing here? Maybe it was just a bad match. 1
Snowflower Posted June 18, 2013 Posted June 18, 2013 (edited) I disagree with those who say you need therapy to deal with all this just because you get angry with him and wish you could go NC. From where I sit, it seems you've handled this in stride. That being said, if you feel there would be some benefit to talking to someone, then go for it. I know talking to someone helped me a lot. It sounds like your first therapist was a bad match for you so keep looking. Edited June 18, 2013 by Snowflower Punctuation! 1
Author macy Posted June 18, 2013 Author Posted June 18, 2013 I've made mistakes but overall I think I have taken it with stride. I am proud of myself for that. Hard when you have so much self doubt, right!? I'm realizing now, that he very much wants his own life (even ran into a R with a much younger girl that he's rushing to marry before he has to move) and ran from the marriage but seems to have trouble when I cut off from him for whatever reason. You'd think he'd be happy his ex wife doesn't want to deal him. It's weird. I'm done worrying about him. His lose.
Author macy Posted June 18, 2013 Author Posted June 18, 2013 SF, How long did you go to a therapist? Did you leave feeling better or was it more you had this one-sided conversation with someone who is paid to listen to you?
Snowflower Posted June 18, 2013 Posted June 18, 2013 SF, How long did you go to a therapist? Did you leave feeling better or was it more you had this one-sided conversation with someone who is paid to listen to you? The first time I went for 7 months a few years ago. She was helpful and very difficult at the same time. I was physically ill after the first few sessions, which was weird to me but later found out that can be normal. I went again last year for a few months when my H and I had run into some difficulty and I was trying to figure out how to handle things. That therapist was very nice, professional and highly-trained, but I did feel like all I did was talk and she just listened. I didn't get as much out of it that time.
Author macy Posted June 18, 2013 Author Posted June 18, 2013 I guess it's all in who you see. Maybe I need to shop around. If feel like I'm going well and all I feel is normal but who knows. I haven't tried dating yet so maybe that's when issues raise there ugly heads. Or maybe I'm in denial and I'm certifiable:lmao:
Author macy Posted June 18, 2013 Author Posted June 18, 2013 That would be * I feel like I'm doing well.
phillygirl Posted June 18, 2013 Posted June 18, 2013 Also regarding the money... I'm an educator, so my salary isn't wonderful but love my job. Even with child support and alimony factored in, he literally still makes 4 times what I do. With his huge bonus I figured he'd follow through. Whatever. I'm letting it go. Sf, You know, it feels good to stand up and tell him to take a hike. Ha! I know I can't just cut him off with the kids involved. My STBXH makes SIX-TIMES what I make. Not only is he prepared to demonstrate to the court that I have equitable earning potential, he's flat out said that he has no intention to pay alimony, just because I CHOSE to become a consultant and SAHM. He also saw no value in me being with his kids vs. paying for daycare and me working. Yeah, figure that one out... :rolls eyes: He's paying temp alimony. He just has to suck that up...Yet I realize that at some point I'm on my own again. And that's fine. Besides, I need him out of my business. Regarding long-term alimony: I have decided to let go. While I'll never make what he does (he's an MD) I know that I won't be homeless either. Also, the longer these men are giving us money (not CS), they still think they can dangle carrots, and play the same power-plays they did during the M. Let it go... Let him have his bonus. You have your piece of mind. (((hugs))) 1
knitwit Posted June 18, 2013 Posted June 18, 2013 My divorce was final at the end of Feb after 16 years of marriage. If you've read my previous posts he cheated multiple times. I forgave after the first confession but after the second moved to divorce. We have 2 kids ages 15 and 11. He is now engaged after dating a girl for a short time. They are marrying this month. I have been the bigger person with a lot of issues for the kids sake. I swallowed my pain and pride many times over many issues regarding him. He has been a good father in the sense of seeing them when he should but he doesn't communicate well with them and they have always felt closer to me. He's an avoider by nature and basically does what he wants and has the attitude that everyone else around him needs to just fall into place. I'm not perfect in the sense I was always peachy nice to him when I saw him and we'd discuss issues. But I have been civil as much as humanly possible. Recently he owed me money per the divorce agreement. He got a very large cash, tax free, bonus. He paid some bills he was required to but still owed me a significant sum. He decided that he didn't have to pay that amount because he willingly paid for a little over half the carpet to be replaced in our home last year. It fact he added more to the deduction than he should have. I have a feeling this is because he's now paying for this wedding to his younger new girlfriend. I was mad of course and told him I didn't want to talk to him ever again. I told him I hated him. I have never even through all the pain of the divorce ever said that to him. I guess I never felt true hate towards him so why say it. Lately I'm not so sure. Maybe not hate but I have a sense of just leave me alone and stay away from me. He craves very much to have a good, civil, great relationship with me, and I know this is because its easier for him in his own mind. I think it truly helps his sense of guilt. I've played along because it helps the kids. But damn it, I'm mad and can't stand playing nice all the time. It felt good to tell him to not talk to me and that I hated him! Bad I know. He had the kids all weekend and so there was no contact. It felt good. I got the kids back last night. Now this morning, after asking him to not talk to me, he's emailed me twice over stupid issues with the kids that have already been answered and are quit obvious. I'm a teacher, so I have summers off. I'm home now and he wanted to know if I was taking our son to his orthodontist appt today. Then wanted to tell me he had forgotten my sons retainer and that he'd make sure that he'd remember next time. All seems like normal parent talk but he would never bother with this normally. Can you NC when you have kids? Or modified nc? It helps so much when I'm not wrapped up in his nonsense and his need to make everything ok in his head. It is possible to NC. It is called Parallel Parenting. Marriage Builders recommends it per their Plan B, where an Intermediary passes all important information through and filters out the non-important stuff. They say it is the best way to recovery for a BS. Also, it is not harmful for the kids if done correctly- in fact, it removes all conflict with the Ex and makes things much more peaceful. The level of conflict is the highest predictor of how well kids adjust. People often interpret this as needing to get along with the Ex, but there are cases where it is even better to remove ALL conflict. If you have zero communication/interaction with the Ex, the kids will never see a fight between you or be put in the middle. It is a pretty extreme path, though. The parenting plan is very detailed and neither party is expected to deviate from it or request a lot of changes. Child drop-offs are done at school, day-care, a relative's etc. The goal is as close to zero interaction as possible. It is easier with older kids like yours, because they can tell you a lot of information, so the need for the Intermediary is low. 2
Snowflower Posted June 19, 2013 Posted June 19, 2013 Macy, this might not have anything to do with your situation but I thought I'd share because it is interesting to me. I read an article talking about amicable divorces and co-parents who get along really well and the message that sends to their children. It would follow logic and emotion that no conflict would be the desired outcome during/after a divorce with kids but it can actually be confusing for children if they see their parents getting along. They then wonder if their parents can get along, then why didn't they stay married to each other? It also mentioned that these amicable divorces sometimes lead adult children of divorce to be more likely to divorce in their own lives because they grew up seeing divorce as an almost friendly event. OTOH, those children who saw conflict between their divorcing/divorced parents often realized that there was going to be no happiness in their parents' relationship. Interestingly, as adults these same children sometimes realized that a divorce is not all easy-peasy and conflict-free and thereby tried to avoid that fate in their own marriages. Now I don't think this psychologist was advocating for knock down, drag out fights or using the children as pawns in a divorce. But to make everything so calm makes children confused and as adults, think divorce is no big deal. Not sure if that is helpful, Macy, but yeah! Hang in there!
Author macy Posted June 19, 2013 Author Posted June 19, 2013 That is very interesting to me! Yes, it relates and strikes a cord. I hid my emotions from my kids a lot to save them from worry. Initially, exH and I were separated and talking divorce for 3 months and the kids had no idea because he was deployed overseas. My daughter has a greater understanding because of her age. My son has had greater difficulty, I think in part of his age and he's just more sensitive in nature. He saw us being amicable many times and when my ex would leave he would ask "why can't daddy just live here?" or "why are you getting divorced?". I would always say things like "Sometimes people just can't get along and are better not being married, but it doesn't have anything to do with you guys", sort of speeches. After awhile these responses weren't cutting it. He was still so confused. One day, months ago, I was feeling bad and was in my room laying in bed crying (not "ugly" crying, just tears). My door was locked but didn't realize it wasn't fully closed. He came in and saw me. He asked why I was crying and I told him I was just sad. We laid and talked for awhile. I expressed my feelings of sadness for our family and for them. He cried a little too. I told him it hurt my heart but we would be ok. He asked me why again, and I realized my other answers were not believed by him and not sitting right in his head. It was then I changed my answer and said "Well, mommy didn't want the divorce but dad wasn't happy and made a choice." I told him that people make mistakes and that we have to forgive. I explained that I was sad and that it's normal and I'd be ok. That article is interesting to me. It's hard to walk the line of what's appropriate to show and say to kids and what's unhealthy. For me I find its a lot of crossing my fingers and pray I'm doing ok by them. I can say my parents divorced when I was 3 years old. My dad left my mother for her best friend. It was brutal and very ugly for many many years. It was horrible. I learned from that. I'm 40 years old and that still sits with me.
Author macy Posted June 19, 2013 Author Posted June 19, 2013 (edited) Thank you Snowflower! I have to ask... Did you get your name SF from the book Snowflower and the Secret Fan? I loved that book! It was a tear jerker! I got Macy because I couldn't think of a name to put here and a Macy's commercial came on the t.v and I thought, there you go . Edited June 19, 2013 by macy
Snowflower Posted June 19, 2013 Posted June 19, 2013 Glad you thought the article was interesting; it was from an excerpt of a book which was in a magazine I was reading. I wish I could remember the name of the book so I could give it to you. I'm familiar with Snowflower and the Secret Fan but I've never read it. No, I got my name from a building I drove by quite often!
Author macy Posted June 19, 2013 Author Posted June 19, 2013 If you remember the title let me know. :-)
sherri333 Posted June 19, 2013 Posted June 19, 2013 I find this thread very interesting. This entire board in fact. My crazy stbexh claims that if I want a divorce, he will have absolutely NO contact with me unless it pertains to our D7. The thought of that drove me crazy because see, I can be cordial and nice and mature. He can't. Anyway, after reading this maybe the less contact the better IS the way to go. Just as you all mentioned I also don't want to give my daughter mixed signals. I see that happening in a lot of my friend's divorces. Anyway I am rethinking my stance so thanks for the enlightenment. As for counseling, I have been seeing my therapist for about 10 years. I was lucky to find one that I really liked (obviously). I only see her on an "as needed" basis. And she has been needed weekly lately lol. Anyway, my point is you really need to keep going until you find one that you like. And my D7 is also going twice a month, not because she NEEDS it so much, but because I figure it can't hurt to have someone neutral to tell her feelings to.
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