H refuses to accept the marriage is over...

[sherri333]

We have been together 15 years and married for 9. My H has been verbally abusive and had anger management problems since I met him. We had constant cycles of him exploding into what was verbal and sometimes physical abuse. Then he would apologize and cry for days and all would be well for a while. He was also an alcoholic. He actually didn't turn into what I consider an alcoholic until I was pregnant with our daughter. He was always a drinker but so was I. But once I got pregnant I stopped obviously and he got worse. I got tired of my daughter (who is now 7) seeing him drunk. We haven't had sex since my daughter was conceived. We "tried" once but he was on meds to help with his anger that made him unable to finish. He drank every night. He watched porn on the computer almost every night. I asked him at least 100's of times to please go get help, alone, together, whatever. I even got him to go to counseling twice and both times he walked out of the session (I have been in counseling for about 10 years). Anyway, fast forward to 2 summers ago. I pretty much emotionally checked out of the marriage. We had no marriage at this point. I did some things I am not proud of but at the time I guess I needed to do. Then that January I decided that's it. I told him I wanted a divorce. At first, all he did was fight me on it. He kept saying we could work on it. We went from being at each others throats to semi getting along. It was horrible. I finally went to a divorce attorney. I was on track for a divorce. At the end of March, he finally broke down and told me he would change. He stopped drinking and started counseling. I wanted a separation so we could spend some time apart and see how things went. We decided to share the house and rotate every 3 days. So he would be in the house for 3 days and I would be there for 3 days, etc. It kind of worked. We also agreed on marriage counseling. May came around we decided to give it a shot living together again. He was being OVERKILL. He was up my ass, did everything for me, acted like he was the best husband in the whole world. He had SO many fooled, but not me. The separation period was supposed to be so I could get some space and see if my feelings came back for him since at that point I was numb. Once we got back together he was just crowding me and making me crazy. He basically did all of the things a husband and father are supposed to do that he neglected for 6 years. But I guess I was used to the way things were. He tried to be affectionate with me but I just couldn't. He would get upset that I wasn't reciprocating his efforts. Finally in the beginning of August, the **** hit the fan. We had a HUGE fight, cops were called, it was bad. He knew at that point I was done. He moved out of the house. We worked out a child visitation plan for my daughter. I stayed at the house. During this time we had pretty much no contact unless it had to do with finances or our daughter. Around the holidays we started talking civilly again and he talked me into giving it one more shot. He moved back in January and we started seeing a different counselor. Things did not get better. My feelings were not coming back. I love him and always will as the father of my daughter but I am not in love with him. He crowds me, spies on me and gets mad that I won't give him any affection.

 

2 weeks ago I finally told him AGAIN that it is over. Now keep in mind that when he thinks it's over he goes crazy. Calling me every name in the book, harassing me by sending me crazy texts, threatening me that he will leave me with nothing, etc. It is so mentally exhausting that I get panic attacks while it is happening. Mostly because when he has my daughter (every other weekend and one night a week) the only contact I can have with her is our nightly phone calls. And I worry because they don't have the best relationship because of his anger problems and the fact that I raised her while he was drunk. Most of the time she wants nothing to do with him. So we both went to a counseling session this past Monday with my therapist and he ranted and raved at me and finally admitted he acts this way because he is hurt. He has many emotional problems and has been working on them (has been in therapy for over a year now). I already knew why he acts out but its no excuse for his behavior. So in that appointment I told him once again, I fell out of love with you, I want a divorce. Well all week he has been relentless, telling me "I still love you and I know you love me" "I will never let you go" "Don't you want to fight for our family" Yesterday was our anniversary and he sent me flowers. I keep telling him nothing has changed since Monday. I am trying not to be blunt because I don't want to push him over the edge. Tonight he wants to "talk" again so we are meeting at a local restaurant. He said there will be no yelling or anger. I am just so afraid that if I tell him bluntly that its over he will go nuts again. Also, we can't file for divorce for about 90 days due to another legal situation that is going on.

 

A few more things - he can't understand why now that he has made so many changes and is finally the man I always wanted I don't want him. First of all, I won't deny that he has come a long way. His anger when we are together and he thinks we are staying together is gone. He used to FREAK about little things like a mess in the kitchen, etc, he doesn't do that anymore. He never helped me in the house. He helps all the time now, makes dinner, cleans, he never helped with our daughter and he has become Mr. Dad with her. Some of the more evil things he has done is put the house up for sale without consulting me (he does this when he is mad at me) when he knows damn well my daughter and I have nowhere to live yet. The house is in his name only because he bought it before we were married but it was to be our "marital house" so my lawyer said not to worry. He tells me I should give him everything and be on my way because he worked for it all. I worked FT and took care of our daughter. He threatens not to pay me child support and doesn't care if he goes to jail. As for his drinking, he hasn't stopped but has cut way back. That is still not enough for me because he is an alcoholic. All of his/our counselors want him to stop completely but he wont.

 

I know this is the longest story ever and I don't even know what I am looking for except some advice I guess. I know I am done with the marriage but afraid he will make my life hell if I tell him that. Thanks if you made it this far.

[TaraMaiden]

Is there anyone in your family you can turn to for help, support and assistance?

 

You need to take a couple of weeks holiday with your daughter - at a time when divorce papers will be served.

Use your family for support and to help you be strong here.

You're teaching your daughter this is acceptable.

Well, it isn't, so make yourself safe, leave and get help - and file for divorce.

"Things" mean nothing.

Your daughter is the most precious thing you have. This is damaging, toxic, poisonous and dysfunctional to the Nth degree.

I bet your counsellors feel like grabbing you by the shoulders and yelling in your face "Woman!! For goodness' sake - leave!!" But professionalism prevents them from doing so.

 

Allow me.....

[sherri333]

I would also like to add: In case you didn't get it from my story he does NOT want this divorce. He is heart broken and devastated over this. I fell horrible and sorry for him but I feel like he just waited too long to make positive changes in his life and I just can't fall back in love with him.

[sherri333]

Is there anyone in your family you can turn to for help, support and assistance?

 

You need to take a couple of weeks holiday with your daughter - at a time when divorce papers will be served.

Use your family for support and to help you be strong here.

You're teaching your daughter this is acceptable.

Well, it isn't, so make yourself safe, leave and get help - and file for divorce.

"Things" mean nothing.

Your daughter is the most precious thing you have. This is damaging, toxic, poisonous and dysfunctional to the Nth degree.

I bet your counsellors feel like grabbing you by the shoulders and yelling in your face "Woman!! For goodness' sake - leave!!" But professionalism prevents them from doing so.

 

Allow me.....

 

I know! I know all of these things and trust me when I tell you I put my daughter before ANYTHING. But he doesn't. He would rather "get back at me" then consider what he is doing to hurt her. Every time she heard him yell at me or talk to me unkindly it hurt her because he was hurting her mother. Part of me wants to run for the hills and just let him take everything but I feel like I will regret that. And I can't serve him with divorce papers for approximately 90 days due to another ongoing legal situation

[TaraMaiden]

In brief...?

 

Tough luck.

 

if he will not step up to the plate and work, earnestly, sincerely and with complete dedication, to fix HIMSELF and repair the damage he has caused - then that's not your problem.

 

It's his.

 

This may precipitate a major case of remorse and get him to turn himself around - but I doubt it. If counselling hasn't pointed this pout to him, nothing will.

 

But that's neither your problem, nor your responsibility.

Your responsibility is to yourself first, and then to your daughter.

 

In that order.

 

Why?

 

because if you don't look to yourself and do what you MUST do - then her life is pointless.

[TaraMaiden]

I know! I know all of these things and trust me when I tell you I put my daughter before ANYTHING. But he doesn't. He would rather "get back at me" then consider what he is doing to hurt her. Every time she heard him yell at me or talk to me unkindly it hurt her because he was hurting her mother. Part of me wants to run for the hills and just let him take everything but I feel like I will regret that. And I can't serve him with divorce papers for approximately 90 days due to another ongoing legal situation

 

I know. Which is why I suggest you plan a holiday away for 90 days' time....

During which time he will get served.

 

And you'll be away, safe and protected.

[sherri333]

And yes, I have a wonderful support system within my mother, sister, cousins and friends. If I had to my daughter and I could move in with my mother temporarily. Not ideal but doable.

[TaraMaiden]

Then what's stopping you moving now, telling your H you need some space, some distance, some peace of mind.... and slowly getting what you need from the house... then serving in 90 days??

 

It's important that if you have a support system, you get your daughter out of there as soon as you humanly can - and tackle this now.

Prepare.

 

You have to stop putting him first, out of fear, pity whatever.

 

Time to get yourself up front.

[NHStrider]

First and foremost…

 

Tara has given you some sounds advice. It sounds like you put up with an incredible amount of heartache due to your husband’s anger issues and alcoholism. I truly hope that you find your way through this ordeal and find happiness on the other end.

 

However…

 

I feel the need to hold you to task on one thing. If it was over two years ago, you should have left two years ago. The phrases in your post that make me say this are:

 

He was being OVERKILL. He was up my ass, did everything for me, acted like he was the best husband in the whole world…

 

Once we got back together he was just crowding me and making me crazy. He basically did all of the things a husband and father are supposed to do that he neglected for 6 years…

 

He would get upset that I wasn't reciprocating his efforts…

 

He crowds me, spies on me and gets mad that I won't give him any affection...

 

He can't understand why now that he has made so many changes and is finally the man I always wanted I don't want him…

 

I won't deny that he has come a long way...

 

I’m in no position to know if his changes are genuine or long lasting but it sounds like he’s pissing into the wind at this point.

 

I guess this resonates with me because I experienced this myself. I’m not an alcoholic nor do I have anger management issues but its clear now with hindsight that my ex had made up her mind to leave long before any discussion of separation or divorce started. She let me, no, expected me to jump through hoops to save our marriage for more than a year. It was like trying to hit a moving target. For her if I didn’t call her enough then “I didn’t care” if I called too much “I was up her ass”

 

The day she left for our first separation, she said she needed a few days away. I honored he requested and let her have her space. I heard nothing from her for five days. When I did speak to her, I told her that I missed her. Her response was “it doesn’t look like it, you haven’t called me”.

 

It sounds like you’ve endured a lot of torment but kicking him while he’s down doesn’t rectify it. Two wrongs don't make a right. If you’re going to leave, leave now.

[TaraMaiden]

NHStrider there are far more complex dynamics in play, when a parter is abusive, both verbally AND physically, and is also into substance abuse.

 

It becomes enormously difficult for the other partner to process this with a clear head, because half the time they're simply in 'damage limitation' mode.

Sadly, those who choose to remain in a relationship as dysfunctional as this one is, sometimes do it, because they feel depended upon. They feel needed and as if somehow, if they stay they can 'fix this'.

 

An abusive relationship is hard to leave also, because of the sheer fear of invoking the abuser's wrath - and them being able to carry out some kind or revenge attack. It happens all too often, sadly....

 

What you're saying, makes complete sense - with regard to a 'normally-functioning' relationship.

 

However, where the dynamics are so skewed - and furthermore, a young child is involved - perspectives become distorted, and what one on the outside, perceives as common sense, flies out of the window.

In a relationship where alcohol and abuse are prevalent and common-place, the goalposts shift to an unrecognisable degree.

Thinking becomes muddled, and logic is non-existent.

[NHStrider]

Tara, I agree with what you say. Most of us here have lived through our own complex and confusing divorces and we understand that decisions are not always easy or clear. To this day, my head isn’t completely straight and I’m not sure if it ever will be.

 

However, Sherri dedicated a large portion of her post deriding her husband’s attempts to improve. The attempts may be disingenuous and even if they aren’t, they are probably way too little and too late. I can empathize with Sherri on that.

 

I’ve only been on the site for a short time but I believe it’s a great place to share and gain insight on all sides of the equation. It helps us cope with the trials we’ve been through but it can also help us understand that there areas where we can improve too.

 

I’ll soften my initial statement; I’m not saying Sherri should have recognized two years ago that it was time to leave. However, I won’t hesitate to suggest that if her husband’s attempts only increase her resentment now, then it’s time to put a stop to them. If she sees no goodness in them don’t have him keep trying.

[TaraMaiden]

I personally recognise how easy it is for me to give advice from behind a computer screen to someone I know I will never meet, and whose life I know nothing about, save for the window they choose to open.

 

That's why sometimes, I have a tendency to 'grab a situation with both hands' rather than approach in a more tentative manner.

IRL my position might be different. But despair looks different in Black and White.

[sherri333]

In brief...?

 

Tough luck.

 

if he will not step up to the plate and work, earnestly, sincerely and with complete dedication, to fix HIMSELF and repair the damage he has caused - then that's not your problem.

 

It's his.

 

This may precipitate a major case of remorse and get him to turn himself around - but I doubt it. If counselling hasn't pointed this pout to him, nothing will.

 

But that's neither your problem, nor your responsibility.

Your responsibility is to yourself first, and then to your daughter.

 

In that order.

 

Why?

 

because if you don't look to yourself and do what you MUST do - then her life is pointless.

 

Thank you. Great advice and you are absolutely right. Is it sad that I feel bad for him sometimes?

[sherri333]

NHStrider there are far more complex dynamics in play, when a parter is abusive, both verbally AND physically, and is also into substance abuse.

 

It becomes enormously difficult for the other partner to process this with a clear head, because half the time they're simply in 'damage limitation' mode.

Sadly, those who choose to remain in a relationship as dysfunctional as this one is, sometimes do it, because they feel depended upon. They feel needed and as if somehow, if they stay they can 'fix this'.

 

An abusive relationship is hard to leave also, because of the sheer fear of invoking the abuser's wrath - and them being able to carry out some kind or revenge attack. It happens all too often, sadly....

 

What you're saying, makes complete sense - with regard to a 'normally-functioning' relationship.

 

However, where the dynamics are so skewed - and furthermore, a young child is involved - perspectives become distorted, and what one on the outside, perceives as common sense, flies out of the window.

In a relationship where alcohol and abuse are prevalent and common-place, the goalposts shift to an unrecognisable degree.

Thinking becomes muddled, and logic is non-existent.

 

YES! You really explained how I have been feeling. "Damage limitation mode" describes it perfectly. I need to break the cycle but it's so hard. I am working with my therapist on it. And I am afraid of his wrath. I get so stressed when he acts out. I worry and have panic attacks. Mostly because it is impossible to co-parent our daughter when he acts like that.

[sherri333]

Okay, I am going to ramble here a little. We met last week for dinner and he asked me if I meant what I said in my therapist's office last week...that I am not in love with him anymore and want a divorce. I told him yes, I meant what I said but since things are calm now let's take a few days to regroup before we make any final decisions. He told me that he NEEDS a woman in his life who will love him, be affectionate and intimate with him. I told him I understand but I can't give him those things right now. I went as far to tell him to go out and do what he needs to do.

 

I am a little upset with myself for not sticking to my guns and making him think there was a chance but again, things were calm, I didn't want to rock the boat. He promised me that even if I was sure I wanted out there would be no more anger, which I don't believe.

 

He is living back in the house and things are civil. We even went out for Father's Day with my daughter together. I actually don't mind spending time with him once in a while when it is the 3 of us. But beyond that, I am done.

 

I have asked him to come to my therapy appointment again tomorrow night and I plan to tell him again that I mean what I say. But why do I feel so bad? I have always felt "responsible" for him. It is a cycle I am having hard time breaking. Also, I hate, hate, hate the fact that I am breaking up my family. Like I said I don't mind spending time with him here and there and living with him as a roommate is fine. But I feel no affection towards him and do not want to be intimate. I have to let go but it is so hard....

[jf2good]

Don't beat yourself up, you at one time loved him and he was controlling and abusive. I can understand your feelings. He may have changed, but you never know when he will fall back into his old patterns. He told you his needs, but did he ever think of your needs all those years, is he thinking of your needs now? NO.

 

Yes it is hard to let it go. Do what is best for you, not him.

[sherri333]

Thank you,[sIZE=5][COLOR=#990000]jf2good[/COLOR][/sIZE] . You are so right. He never put my needs first and still isn't. Flowers and fluff don't mean anything.

 

We were supposed to wait until tonight at my therapy appointment to "talk" but it came out this morning and I told him "no, I don't want this anymore". Just because I have been nice and civil to you (as we should be to each other no matter what for the sake of our daughter) doesn't mean I want to stay with you. He blew a gasket again, started yelling at me, calling names, saying he will take this away from me and that away from me. You know what? I DON'T care! I am done with his BS. He shows his true colors when he thinks I am leaving him. He will never change and I no longer want to be a prisoner. It's all about control. If I am leaving him he can no longer control me...so he threatens me.

[phillygirl]

I would also like to add: In case you didn't get it from my story he does NOT want this divorce. He is heart broken and devastated over this.

 

 

Honey, they all are.

 

 

I fell horrible and sorry for him but I feel like he just waited too long to make positive changes in his life and I just can't fall back in love with him.

 

Don't [feel sorry]. Move on. He's not a child. And unless he has MARKED psychiatric problems, which preclude his ability to act right, he's WELL AWARE of his role in this. Even though he'll probably NEVER admit it to anyone or himself.

 

Seriously, at what point during the R did he NOT know that his behavior was stank? Year 1? Year 5?

 

Yet he CHOSE to not do anything about it.

 

It's called "the-sh*t-has-hit-the-fan" ism.

 

Furthermore, he knows that his comfy life is about to change. He also knows (subconsiously) that NO OTHER SANE WOMAN will put up with his crap.

 

Case in point:

 

My H was a complete ass, until I told him I wanted a D. Then he wanted counseling, to work things out, to be more romantic, yadda yadda.... He blamed EVERYTHING AND EVERY ONE (his job, his overwhelming debt, his burnout....hell, he would have blamed "global warming"; BUT MOSTLY ME) for his trifling behavior during our M.

 

He cried, pled, acted a jerk (depending on the day)....and thought I was bluffing, until it become real to him when he was served.

 

Now he's scrambling to retain a lawyer, because with our income disparity, he knows he's about to get hit HARD in his pocket.

 

It's really a shame that it has to come to this. If only these men would not act like "knuckle-dragging Neandrathals" and try to fix things WHILE WE ARE ENGAGED IN THE R.

 

But, they don't change. And then act as if we are psychotic or emotionally unstable when they've been (not actually) bashed over the head with a 2X4, when we say "enough!"

 

 

Hang in there....

[sherri333]

Honey, they all are.

 

 

 

 

Don't [feel sorry]. Move on. He's not a child. And unless he has MARKED psychiatric problems, which preclude his ability to act right, he's WELL AWARE of his role in this. Even though he'll probably NEVER admit it to anyone or himself.

 

Seriously, at what point during the R did he NOT know that his behavior was stank? Year 1? Year 5?

 

Yet he CHOSE to not do anything about it.

 

It's called "the-sh*t-has-hit-the-fan" ism.

 

Furthermore, he knows that his comfy life is about to change. He also knows (subconsiously) that NO OTHER SANE WOMAN will put up with his crap.

 

Case in point:

 

My H was a complete ass, until I told him I wanted a D. Then he wanted counseling, to work things out, to be more romantic, yadda yadda.... He blamed EVERYTHING AND EVERY ONE (his job, his overwhelming debt, his burnout....hell, he would have blamed "global warming"; BUT MOSTLY ME) for his trifling behavior during our M.

 

He cried, pled, acted a jerk (depending on the day)....and thought I was bluffing, until it become real to him when he was served.

 

Now he's scrambling to retain a lawyer, because with our income disparity, he knows he's about to get hit HARD in his pocket.

 

It's really a shame that it has to come to this. If only these men would not act like "knuckle-dragging Neandrathals" and try to fix things WHILE WE ARE ENGAGED IN THE R.

 

But, they don't change. And then act as if we are psychotic or emotionally unstable when they've been (not actually) bashed over the head with a 2X4, when we say "enough!"

 

 

Hang in there....

 

I am really loving these replies I get more and more. It is great to have your feelings validated.

 

As for psychiatric problems, they may not be marked, but they are there I feel. But again, I begged him to get help for years and years.

 

And he does admit that he did wrong...that his drinking and drug use was wrong...but now that he has changed SO much, why, oh why do I still want out? The fact is, he hasn't changed so much. He still drinks, although very occasionally, but even when we were trying to fix things, I saw him slipping back into his patterns little by little.

 

AND he is still unstable, but I am the crazy one

[trippi1432]

Yes, get ready for the gaslighting. That doesn't just happen in affairs, gaslighting can happen at anytime in an abusive and toxic relationship.

 

I totally agree with Tara's postings in your case. Wish someone had said that to me so eloquently when I was going through it almost four years ago when HE decided he was done with me. I put up with exactly the things you have pointed out for 15 years. These types of men don't learn until they lose everything. They do move on and just repeat the cycle...but the best thing about it, you don't have to be a part if that cycle anymore.

 

I didn't/wouldn't put him out because I was afraid of the cycle and couldn't protect our son when he was younger. Since my ex and I have went our separate ways, I've never had a man treat me in this fashion, and I never will again.