TaraMaiden Posted June 14, 2013 Posted June 14, 2013 Well I appreciate you allowing me to voice my opinion. What's material is this girl is confused and vulnerable and you tell her to file for divorce for "unreasonable behavior"? Seems pretty irresponsible to me hot lips. And I didn't know you we're qualified to give such advice. Is this awarded after 10k posts? (It's being married to a lawyer/solicitor that does it.....) Examining his attitude within the relationship, there appear to be grounds for considering that - to use common parlance, - he is a manipulative verbal bully. While the OP made brief and somewhat vague reference to certain incidents of argumentative dominating behaviour, it's highly likely that these are neither isolated nor rare. The reasons to cite divorce are actually limited and categories are sufficiently vague to permit a wider scope of examples to be applied. "Unreasonable behaviour" covers a wide gamut. hence my proposal to take advantage of that category. Other categories wouldn't fit or be appropriate. Advice can be given by anyone at any time. I was advised to phukk off by someone who had only accumulated 37 posts. I refrained from posting further in his thread, as he requested. Sadly, I believe it was his only - and last - thread. 2
marqueemoon4 Posted June 14, 2013 Posted June 14, 2013 Ohhh.. you're married to a lawyer. Well, obviously you must know what you're talking about You are aware there are two sides to this story.. and maybe OP might actually want to discuss this with her new husband before she starts filing divorce paperwork? Just another perspective.
TaraMaiden Posted June 14, 2013 Posted June 14, 2013 I think that would be entirely advisable. mandatory even! But she is concerned herself, with regard to the way he can run rings around her during discussions. it may not be that she is entirely incapable of holding her own, but I know - being married to the lawyer(!) - how easy it is to have your mind spun by an articulate and clever talker, who's verbal dexterity is backed by an agile mind. 1
marqueemoon4 Posted June 14, 2013 Posted June 14, 2013 Seems like there are numerous steps that should be taken before the D word is even mentioned. I don't know, I must be old fashioned or something, but marriage vows are actually supposed to mean something. OP whatever you decide best of luck to you, I'm sorry you're having doubts so early in.. just try to be level headed and communicate with Michael as best you can. 1
Forever Learning Posted June 14, 2013 Posted June 14, 2013 (edited) I think that would be entirely advisable. mandatory even! But she is concerned herself, with regard to the way he can run rings around her during discussions. it may not be that she is entirely incapable of holding her own, but I know - being married to the lawyer(!) - how easy it is to have your mind spun by an articulate and clever talker, who's verbal dexterity is backed by an agile mind. Bingo! You nailed it TaraMaiden! I can't stress this enough, and this can be true not only in marriages, but in friendships and relationships in families. My ex-husband was a blue collar electrician, but he had the agile mind and verbal dexterity you describe (never put it to good use in getting higher education) but he used his verbal dexterity and agile mind to escape blame from all wrong doing and never take responsibility for his actions. That is a red flag and oftentimes a personality disorder. When they often twist and distort the truth, re-write history, and bounce back the blame and fault onto you instead of taking responsibility for their actions - this is a huge red flag and indicator of a slippery, dishonest personality which lacks maturity and integrity. These are very common traits of Narcisssistic Personality Disorder and other Cluster B type Personality Disorders. Steph, here's a great place to start reading about these things: Characteristics and traits of Narcissistic Personality Disorder - "Out Of The Fog" website Click Here Please read this article and tell me whether or not any of it applies to your husband. It might, it might not. Only you will know. But, at this point, I am sure curious. Edited June 14, 2013 by Forever Learning
Forever Learning Posted June 14, 2013 Posted June 14, 2013 (edited) I have 4 brothers and they weren't to keen on him, 2 years later when i was 21 I found out he cheated on me with a hooker, i confronted him about it, The problem was, i cant argue with him, like i cant explain it he has this way of twisting everything you say - i go into an argument fuming at him and i end up the bad guy and all the fault falls at my feet. The same year hetold me he didn’t want kids, which was a blow because I always did picture myself with a family - he just, I cant explain it he ties me up in knots when im trying to argue my point – he’d of made a good lawyer. I knew it didn’t feel right leading up to the wedding, even on the day, And now we’re married. I decided to put barney to one side and try and make it work but thething is, maybe I didn’t know any better before, but I do now. Now I know that we just don’t fit together - he wants someone who’ll cook & look after thehouse and entertain his friends and be happy with a shopping trip at theweekend but the truth is I don’t want that, I want someone I can have fun withand I want to go camping and fishing and to watch my brothers baseball game. I played my part– I went along with this, I had doubts and I married him anyway but I don’t know if I can stick with this for the rest of my life. So confused! :/ These are the things you said that led me to think you should get a divorce. And that he may have a personality disorder or serious personality defects and lack integrity (always placing blame back on you during any argument). The well known problem with Narcissists, if you do go to marriage counseling, is they do the same thing (in a very slick way) in therapy to the therapist, and the therapist in unable to make their points either. Therapists get tired too, of the 'running in circles to escape blame' song and dance that these personality disordered people can do. People like your husband (if you believe he has this type problem) - usually have done it all their lives, and they are very good at it. It begins in childhood, and they perfect it throughout life. The common consensus in the psychology community is that these people can't be rehabilitated, these personality traits are at the core of their being and who they are at such a deep level, change is often a lost cause. I don't mean to depress you, and I am not saying for sure that your husband has these problems. I am only educating you about this topic. All the best to you dear! You will figure it out. Get counseling for yourself, and read all the self help books you can, to become more self aware and more enlightened about life, and your own wants and needs in life. Cheers to you hun Edited June 14, 2013 by Forever Learning
Author Steph-It-Up Posted June 14, 2013 Author Posted June 14, 2013 You feel it was a mistake. Sometimes it takes ACTUALLY GETTING MARRIED to realize this, after years of being together. This is not that unusual. Sometimes you don't 'see the light' until after the wedding. It happens. Alot actually. Yeah? I felt like I must be the only person having doubts about her marriage on her honeymoon!! The fact that you say you can't be who he wants you to be - that is just such a big red flag to me. You only need be yourself, and I can see that you don't feel accepted by him when you are just being yourself. That's a huge problem. You shouldn't stop 'being yourself' for him. Yeah I mean don't get me wrong im sure some people would be more than happy with the life he wants to give them but like we come from very different backgrounds and he wants me to be the token wife - look after the home, entertain his posh work buddies and be happy when he says thank you with a shopping trip....its not even that I have a problem with that, i'll entertain his friends but I don't know why everything always has to be so formal, I dunno whats wrong with a BBQ, y'know! lol! That's just a little thing , I just feel like we stand so differently on everything - and I cant make myself someone else so we clash. There is actually more I wanted to write but I have to put my kids to bed, it was in the part of your post where you said he twists everything in arguements and makes it your fault. BIG RED FLAG! That sound's like a Narcissist to me. I will try to find you links tomorrow to educate you on that. I was married to one for 16 years who ALWAYS did that, so that statement you made really jumped out at me. Narcissism is a serious personality disorder that can't be 'fixed'. I have to put the kids to bed, so let me try to give you more info about this tomorrow. No of course put your kids to bed! lol Thanks, I've never heard of that - i'll have a google! Also, it almost seems to me you are looking for someone's permission to leave him. This permission you seek is something you will have to grant to yourself, and sometimes its a slow process in getting there, but you have to be true to yourself in the end. It's a process of growth and self reflection/ self introspection, the process of standing up for yourself, and charting your own course in life regarding where you want to go and who you want to be with. This situation you are in is NOT easy, because yes, if you leave him, some folks will be mad. Individual counseling is not a bad idea either, to help guide you in getting focused and regrouping, and for the support. More later. Yeah that would be nice! Like I think 'omg you've been married 2 weeks' and I cant reason to myself why I went through with the wedding - so god knows what all other folk will think. Its not really care what people think....well obviously I must or I wouldn't be writing this paragraph...I care what my family think, but they would stand by me, I doubt it'll make them proud exactly but there'd stand by me - my brothers would give me grief till the day I die about it, but I can deal with a ribbing from my brothers, lol! but I don't even know where i'd start to explain it when I don't even understand it myself - like we've been together 6 years, nothings suddenly changed overnight just the feeling in my gut! If I walk he'll make sure that it all falls at my feet but I really don't care what his family think - ive never been able to impress them before, why start now! 1
Author Steph-It-Up Posted June 14, 2013 Author Posted June 14, 2013 But she is concerned herself, with regard to the way he can run rings around her during discussions. it may not be that she is entirely incapable of holding her own, but I know - being married to the lawyer(!) - how easy it is to have your mind spun by an articulate and clever talker, who's verbal dexterity is backed by an agile mind. Exactly - like I go in there fully intending to hold my own, im not intimidated by him he just.. I don't even know, he...just twists it - it does feel a bit like being in court!
GorillaTheater Posted June 14, 2013 Posted June 14, 2013 it may not be that she is entirely incapable of holding her own, but I know - being married to the lawyer(!) - how easy it is to have your mind spun by an articulate and clever talker, who's verbal dexterity is backed by an agile mind. That's not always the case; I lean towards grunting to hold up my end of the conversation. 2
Author Steph-It-Up Posted June 14, 2013 Author Posted June 14, 2013 Steph, here's a great place to start reading about these things: Characteristics and traits of Narcissistic Personality Disorder - "Out Of The Fog" website Click Here Please read this article and tell me whether or not any of it applies to your husband. It might, it might not. Only you will know. But, at this point, I am sure curious. Thanks for that, its really interesting! Some of it definitely applys to him i.e. the blaming, cheating, lack of conscience. If he had his way I wouldn't see my family as much as I do, I wouldn't work and I wouldn't see friends as much as i do but i don't and wont give in on those things. He' not impulsive thou, nor does he have a temper - which can actually be infuriating when im mad at him and he dosent flicker. he's incredibly articulated, every little thing he does is thoroughly thought out - when i was 19 and i first met him i just thought he was incredibly smooth, like all our dates would be planned to the second but its not just dates its every word every action and i starting to find something (struggling to find the right word) something, slightly uncomfortable about that - i don't want to live my life in a chess game. I guess maybe that's where Barney comes into play as well cause he's the opposite of that, very easy going, very laid back which probably highlighted the difference. He's actually a tad clumsy as well, which sounds a strange thing to be attracted to but it just refreshingly different - I cant remember the last time i ever saw Michael drop something - which is not something i would ever of noticed if it wasn't for in the short time I've known Barney he's always knocking stuff over. These are the things you said that led me to think you should get a divorce. And that he may have a personality disorder or serious personality defects and lack integrity (always placing blame back on you during any argument). The well known problem with Narcissists, if you do go to marriage counseling, is they do the same thing (in a very slick way) in therapy to the therapist, and the therapist in unable to make their points either. Therapists get tired too, of the 'running in circles to escape blame' song and dance that these personality disordered people can do. Yeah that sounds exactly like him, im sure he would do that, he can be so charming, he would present himself as whiter than white - that's why i fully know that if i walk, he'll spin me as the bad guy or a fool or whatever he feels he needs to preserve his reputation - but like i said i dontt care what his family or colleges think, there all so up themselves anyway, lol. I've never been upper class enough for them anyway. All the best to you dear! You will figure it out. Get counseling for yourself, and read all the self help books you can, to become more self aware and more enlightened about life, and your own wants and needs in life. Cheers to you hun Thank you so much!! 1
Shepp Posted June 14, 2013 Posted June 14, 2013 I don't really think it matters who's fault it is or if its anyones when its a matter of general incompatibility. For me if a girl didn't like my family there'd be no point spending another second with her because sooner or later she wouldn't like me either - im like my family, if she dosent like them then why would she like me! He dosent like your family, his family don't like you - that would be the red flag for me! Plus kids is a massive thing - I couldn't be in a relationship where it was off the table - I want to be a dad, to teach my kids stuff, coach the little league, walk my daughter down the aisle - to not get to do any of that stuff would be too bigger sacrifice in my life for me! Life is so precious, and so fragile and if your not happy then your wasting it - if you had kids then I might feel differently but you dont, your 26 you have time to change your life............if you were 80 and in your rocking chair looking back at this exact moment what would you tell yourself to do?? One day baby we'll be old Good Luck 2
pteromom Posted June 14, 2013 Posted June 14, 2013 Plus 6 years is a long time to throw away thou! 50 years would be longer to throw away. You can't make decisions based on not wanting to change. That's not a good measurement. Are you truly happy where you are? If no, then don't throw away your future on a life that is less than what you want. Now is the time, not 15 years from now. 3
pteromom Posted June 14, 2013 Posted June 14, 2013 I don't really think it matters who's fault it is or if its anyones when its a matter of general incompatibility. For me if a girl didn't like my family there'd be no point spending another second with her because sooner or later she wouldn't like me either - im like my family, if she dosent like them then why would she like me! He dosent like your family, his family don't like you - that would be the red flag for me! Plus kids is a massive thing - I couldn't be in a relationship where it was off the table - I want to be a dad, to teach my kids stuff, coach the little league, walk my daughter down the aisle - to not get to do any of that stuff would be too bigger sacrifice in my life for me! Life is so precious, and so fragile and if your not happy then your wasting it - if you had kids then I might feel differently but you dont, your 26 you have time to change your life............if you were 80 and in your rocking chair looking back at this exact moment what would you tell yourself to do?? One day baby we'll be old Good Luck What a great post... You don't even have to get into possible personality disorders or whether his behavior is OK, or whether your friendship with Barney is an emotional affair. There is ONE POINT that makes divorce the best option: He absolutely does not want children. You want the option of having them. There is no compromise or negotiation to be had in this situation. There is no way for both of you to get what you want. So yes, divorce is the best option. Just tell him that you understand that he doesn't want children, and you understand that you agreed to not having them, but that life has changed you and you have changed your mind, so you are going to move on. 2
TaraMaiden Posted June 14, 2013 Posted June 14, 2013 Interesting that the two posters who are suggesting immediate divorce are female. Guess what? It goes both ways.. my exW is masterful at twisting things, rewriting history, and general crazymaking. And you can't fault her husband if he she can't hang in a real discussion and just shuts down. That said, if he is the type who can never accept fault and see his mistakes, then certainly some counseling might be a good idea. But telling her DIVORCE DIVORCE is just bad advice imho. Clearly there are communication issues between the two of them, and I'm willing to bet its not ALL his fault. Fault? Well, that's debatable..... Responsibility - for the relationship fragmenting? No. That's a 50-50 thing. Each person is 100% responsible for their own 50% of the relationship. The maintenance, the upkeep, the nurturing and 'regular servicing'. But one person cannot make up the shortfall of the other. And the problem is, if one person is unwilling to do their half, then no matter what efforts the other person makes, it's never going to be a fully functioning relationship, firing on all cylinders. He doesn't sound a particularly pro-active person. And she wants out. So the responsibilities for keeping this going have been abdicated, it seems, on both sides. What's to salvage? 2
Author Steph-It-Up Posted June 18, 2013 Author Posted June 18, 2013 I don't really think it matters who's fault it is or if its anyones when its a matter of general incompatibility. For me if a girl didn't like my family there'd be no point spending another second with her because sooner or later she wouldn't like me either - im like my family, if she dosent like them then why would she like me! He dosent like your family, his family don't like you - that would be the red flag for me! Plus kids is a massive thing - I couldn't be in a relationship where it was off the table - I want to be a dad, to teach my kids stuff, coach the little league, walk my daughter down the aisle - to not get to do any of that stuff would be too bigger sacrifice in my life for me! Life is so precious, and so fragile and if your not happy then your wasting it - if you had kids then I might feel differently but you dont, your 26 you have time to change your life............if you were 80 and in your rocking chair looking back at this exact moment what would you tell yourself to do?? One day baby we'll be old Good Luck Yeah your right, your are right, thank you. I know if I walk now it'll be messy, really messy and maybe i'll regret it but at least i'll know, one way or the other - I always swore I wouldn't live with what ifs.
Author Steph-It-Up Posted June 18, 2013 Author Posted June 18, 2013 There is ONE POINT that makes divorce the best option: He absolutely does not want children. You want the option of having them. There is no compromise or negotiation to be had in this situation. There is no way for both of you to get what you want. Yeah, I was only young when I met Michael and I knew right from the start kids was off the table so I never bothered to give it much though but I would of liked kids, I really would of - I feel it the most when im with my nieces and nephews.
Author Steph-It-Up Posted June 18, 2013 Author Posted June 18, 2013 He doesn't sound a particularly pro-active person. And she wants out. So the responsibilities for keeping this going have been abdicated, it seems, on both sides. What's to salvage? wow, that is though provoking stuff!!
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