friends with benefits - things are getting complicating

[daisybuchanan55]

And no, my romantic interest is not contingent on the man paying. If I accept a date you can assume I like the guy just fine.

 

But if he didn't pay, any attraction would go down the toilet because I'd feel the guy was not a gentleman and had zero manners.

 

I feel it's the equivalent of, back in cave man times, the man going out to hunt and coming back empty-handed. The woman goes "WTF?" and he says "Oh sorry, I expected you to go kill something for yourself. I'm full. I already ate!"

 

Just goes against nature, IMO.

 

And yes, I realize we're "equals" in society now, but romantic relationships are governed not by society but by biology. And biology dictates the man is the provider. I will "provide" for the man in other ways.

[Ripnet]

JonasB...let me lay out a scenario.

 

A great-looking, successful man with lots of options takes out an equally good-looking, successful girl. They have dinner. The bill comes. The man reaches for it without ANY hesitation.

 

This guy has LOTS of options.

 

Why would he bother paying the bill if he has so many women willing to sleep with him and he doesn't even have to take those girls out?

 

IME it's always guys who have been beaten down/rejected who have a chip on their shoulder about paying for things.

 

Why?

 

 

I don't have a chip on my shoulder because I was beaten down or rejected. I don't want tons of options. I had tons of options. I just want one quality woman who is compatible with me.

 

Once I get into a relationship that's different but in the beginning it's just getting to know phase.

[daisybuchanan55]

I don't have a chip on my shoulder because I was beaten down or rejected. I don't want tons of options. I had tons of options. I just want one quality woman who is compatible with me.

 

Once I get into a relationship that's different but in the beginning it's just getting to know phase.

 

What if you lose out on the one quality woman you want because you didn't make her feel special in the beginning of your relationship?

[Ripnet]

But if he didn't pay, any attraction would go down the toilet because I'd feel the guy was not a gentleman and had zero manners.

 

I feel it's the equivalent of, back in cave man times, the man going out to hunt and coming back empty-handed. The woman goes "WTF?" and he says "Oh sorry, I expected you to go kill something for yourself. I'm full. I already ate!"

 

 

 

And yes, I realize we're "equals" in society now, but romantic relationships are governed not by society but by biology. And biology dictates the man is the provider. I will "provide" for the man in other ways.

 

Well you're the kind of women I like to weed out no loss for me, in fact women like you are doing me a favor.

 

The caveman times? LOL

That's a poor example but this what women are expect. Let's say there's a limited amount of animals you can hunt. Both and women hunt. Food is enough for both men and women.

The women would hunt and eat the animal then she would go to other men and ask them to hunt for food. But when the men look for an animal to hunt for he realized someone already caught some animals. So he goes asking other guys and they tell him no I didn't catch anything there.

So he does some investigating and finds out the woman actually hunted and ate the food. So the man goes to the woman and ask her why she should get some food when she already hunted herself. It would require more time and effort to find an animal to catch. He might go several days without food while the woman didn't because she was also hunting.

 

The man gets upset because she is greedy and only thinks about herself.

 

Biology does not dictate that the man is the provider. In fact there are plenty of house husband.

 

You're just twisting things to your benefit without responsibility. How can you sleep at night I really wonder?

[Ripnet]

What if you lose out on the one quality woman you want because you didn't make her feel special in the beginning of your relationship?

 

Dating is not a relationship, don't you know that? There is no commitment. I don't need to court someone to make them feel special.

[daisybuchanan55]

Dating is not a relationship, don't you know that? There is no commitment. I don't need to court someone to make them feel special.

 

My point is, what if the right woman who you could have gotten into a relationship with ends things prematurely because she was turned off by your behavior in the dating phase?

 

This is why I suggest drinks as a good first date. Worst case scenario you're out $20. Best case scenario you meet the woman of your dreams!

[daisybuchanan55]

Well you're the kind of women I like to weed out no loss for me, in fact women like you are doing me a favor.

 

The caveman times? LOL

That's a poor example but this what women are expect. Let's say there's a limited amount of animals you can hunt. Both and women hunt. Food is enough for both men and women.

The women would hunt and eat the animal then she would go to other men and ask them to hunt for food. But when the men look for an animal to hunt for he realized someone already caught some animals. So he goes asking other guys and they tell him no I didn't catch anything there.

So he does some investigating and finds out the woman actually hunted and ate the food. So the man goes to the woman and ask her why she should get some food when she already hunted herself. It would require more time and effort to find an animal to catch. He might go several days without food while the woman didn't because she was also hunting.

 

The man gets upset because she is greedy and only thinks about herself.

 

Biology does not dictate that the man is the provider. In fact there are plenty of house husband.

 

You're just twisting things to your benefit without responsibility. How can you sleep at night I really wonder?

 

I guess this is just a difference of opinions...the idea of having a house husband turns me off BIG TIME!

[Ripnet]

My point is, what if the right woman who you could have gotten into a relationship with ends things prematurely because she was turned off by your behavior in the dating phase?

 

This is why I suggest drinks as a good first date. Worst case scenario you're out $20. Best case scenario you meet the woman of your dreams!

 

On drinks? I don't drink alcohol let alone pop. You do not get it and probably never will it's not just about money it's a lack of respect.

 

I'll take my losses really. I really don't care if she wants to go there's the door. I won't get upset but just don't come crawling back.

 

A relationship is something you build together not just by one person. I've seen this with both of my sisters who treat their husband poorly. Both sister of my sisters were courted heavily.

 

Even when one my sister was dating a guy in high school her boyfriend would buy her things and I told her not to ask or take advantage of him, I told her is isn't the right thing to do. She told me that she never asked he just like doing it. I told her to do things in return for him. It's what any sensible good person should do.

[Drseussgrrl]

On drinks? I don't drink alcohol let alone pop. You do not get it and probably never will it's not just about money it's a lack of respect.

 

I'll take my losses really. I really don't care if she wants to go there's the door. I won't get upset but just don't come crawling back.

 

A relationship is something you build together not just by one person. I've seen this with both of my sisters who treat their husband poorly. Both sister of my sisters were courted heavily.

 

Even when one my sister was dating a guy in high school her boyfriend would buy her things and I told her not to ask or take advantage of him, I told her is isn't the right thing to do. She told me that she never asked he just like doing it. I told her to do things in return for him. It's what any sensible good person should do.

 

Every guy who's asked me out and went dutch with me wasn't interested in a relationship. In fact, their attitude was pretty much like yours. Let's just "hang out" and see what happens.

 

Why would I want to "hang out" with a dude on his very casual terms when there are other dudes out there who LIKE to court me and make me feel like a million bucks? Maybe you should be mad at THEM.

 

On my second date with my dude, he asked me to a show. When he came to pick me up, he had this beautifully wrapped box of chocolates waiting for me on the seat. It didn't cost much, but I knew I was starting to REALLY like him after that. It was so thoughtful. He bought dinner, and I picked up our bar tab at the venue. He insists on paying the majority of the time, but he's always doing little thoughtful things too, like bringing me a car charger when he noticed I didn't have one. And no, sorry it doesn't make me shallow because I like that he is this way. It sets him apart.

 

He's the bomb.

[daisybuchanan55]

^^^^^

 

THIS GUY!!!

 

Sounds like a winner. Good luck to you two!!! He sounds fantastic and it's nice to see his gestures and thoughtfulness aren't going unnoticed.

[Ripnet]

 

Why would I want to "hang out" with a dude on his very casual terms when there are other dudes out there who LIKE to court me and make me feel like a million bucks? Maybe you should be mad at THEM.

 

On my second date with my dude, he asked me to a show. When he came to pick me up, he had this beautifully wrapped box of chocolates waiting for me on the seat. It didn't cost much, but I knew I was starting to REALLY like him after that. It was so thoughtful. He bought dinner, and I picked up our bar tab at the venue. He insists on paying the majority of the time, but he's always doing little thoughtful things too, like bringing me a car charger when he noticed I didn't have one. And no, sorry it doesn't make me shallow because I like that he is this way. It sets him apart.

 

He's the bomb.

Like I said I like to weed out women like you. Not mad at all since I can get dates. I don't need to kiss butt hoping someone will like me. Plenty of women go dutch these days. One woman wanted to date me and she wanted to pay but unfortantely she was a customer of mine and I don't date customers. Even the place I was working was sold and I was going to give her my number but we didn't meet again.

 

I didn't spend a dime on a woman and she felt special. I didn't have to wow her with stuff and trying to impress.

 

Continue to date the men I don't care why would I be mad?

 

It's funny how both my step mom and one of my aunts told me how selfish women are these days. My generation and lower are incredibly selfish. My aunt told me his son has two friends who were married and they left them not because of being treated like crap but because one wanted to help his parents business because they need help and other just more and more things.

 

We live in a materialist society that's selfish. There this a topic about this on another forum I go to.

 

I help anyone if I can help it doesn't have to be a woman.

 

It's no wonder a lot of guys are not wanting to date even David Choe (wealth rich asian artist) no longer wants marriage and this guy can really afford it.

[Quiet Storm]

He doesn't want other men playing with his toys. Many men are possessive. Even if they don't want to commit, they want to keep you on a string. He doesn't see you as relationship material, but doesn't want to share you with other men, either. Think of it like a toddler that has a toybox full of toys, and when another kid picks one....that's the one he wants at that moment. It's not because he wants to commit to you, it's because it gives him an ego boost to know he's the only one. That even though you have all these other men willing to have sex with you... you only give it to him.

 

His comments show that he is fishing for information. He wants to know if you are having sex with other men. It's not about feelings, or love for you. It's about his ego.

 

It is validating for him that you are dating other men, but only having sex with him. It doesn't mean he values you, though.

 

I think he is objectifying you, and you are allowing it. You say it's the best sex...but at what price? He gets the most vulnerable parts of you...without putting in any effort at all. He gets all of the fun, without any of the commitment or responsibility. You're easy....and I don't mean that as an insult, but really, he doesn't have to do anything nice for you, and he still gets sex.

 

I think you are worth more than this. Even if you are mutually using each other, it's too complicated. You are hung up on this guy, being loyal to him, when he really doesn't care about your feelings much at all. He doesn't deserve your loyalty, or your thoughts, IMO.

 

Don't settle...there are men that will give themselves completely & fully. You won't find one if you are hung up on this guy.

[daisybuchanan55]

I think the person who did the asking should also do the paying. If you asked me out, you should pay.

 

If I ask you out, I'll pay.

 

Then again, I never ask men out because it NEVER works when a girl asks a guy out. Or it RARELY works. It's always the exception.

 

The way I make men feel special on a first or second date is by showing up on time, looking nice, complimenting him, thanking him for a nice time, being a polite and interesting conversationalist and being generally appreciative. I would hope if I asked a person out (even a friend!) they would do the same when I am HAPPY to pay for the bill because I enjoy their company.

 

If we decide to take things further and keep going on dates, I will eventually start paying for things (like DrSeussgrrl said) like the occasional bar tab, movie tickets, coffee etc. I will make nice dinners at home. I will do nice little things for reason.

 

Then again, I've never even had to think about this in a relationship because every guy I've dated has been horrified at the prospect of me paying for things. One story comes to mind...

 

Woke up early, he was still sleeping, I told him I was going out for coffee and asked what he wanted. Half-asleep he reached for his wallet and gave me a $20. I told him I could get it and he said "Are you crazy? I like taking care of you!"

 

Well, wow. SO not necessary. I was HAPPY to do it because I liked him. And guess what, I was happy because I got to wake up next to such a generous, polite man who knows how to treat a girl and he was happy because he didn't have to move from his comfy bed to get his iced coffee.

 

And he REALLY enjoyed that coffee because he got to drink it while getting a blow job.

[eastcoastgirl88]

I don't understand how all these guys can defend not paying for a first or second date. I honestly don't get it. Why? Were you ever someone who paid for first dates and then felt you didn't get any "benefit" from it?

[Ripnet]

I don't understand how all these guys can defend not paying for a first or second date. I honestly don't get it. Why? Were you ever someone who paid for first dates and then felt you didn't get any "benefit" from it?

 

Actually one of my first date met me at my place. We had no plans to eat because it was late at night (just plan on having a few drinks). She brought an expensive fruit tray. Of course I did things for her also and even bought some Chinese food on mother's day for her.

Funny thing is that she feel in love with me and wanted a relationship. Obviously she was interested and felt special when she spent money on me.

 

Oh yeah every woman came late to dates expect one who only wanted just sex or something else. Why should I even pay when I'm waiting for her because she's late and I am not talking about a few minutes.

 

I expect women to come on time when I am dating and I do expect her to pay her own way. This is to weed out the free loaders and time wasters. I even heard of guys dating a woman who already had a boyfriend but never told him because they were bored and wanted a free meal or simply an ego boost.

[eastcoastgirl88]

Actually one of my first date met me at my place. We had no plans to eat because it was late at night (just plan on having a few drinks). She brought an expensive fruit tray. Of course I did things for her also and even bought some Chinese food on mother's day for her.

Funny thing is that she feel in love with me and wanted a relationship. Obviously she was interested and felt special when she spent money on me.

 

Oh yeah every woman came late to dates expect one who only wanted just sex or something else. Why should I even pay when I'm waiting for her because she's late and I am not talking about a few minutes.

 

I expect women to come on time when I am dating and I do expect her to pay her own way. This is to weed out the free loaders and time wasters. I even heard of guys dating a woman who already had a boyfriend but never told him because they were bored and wanted a free meal or simply an ego boost.

 

I think that the free-loading thing happens much less frequently than you think. Also, if we're going with that logic, maybe I should never date because some guys will pretend to be nice when all they want is to have sex and then dump me.

 

I can't and won't operate like this. I know most men are not awful people trying to use me. I honestly believe most women are decent people too, just looking for someone to connect with.

 

I don't mean to brag but I get asked out very, very frequently and politely turn down the people I know I don't have any interest in getting to know, even though I know they would be happy to spend money on me. It's simply not worth the effort of getting ready and sitting across a table from someone I'm not interested in just to get a free meal. I'd rather eat Kraft mac and cheese in front of the TV in my PJs!

 

EDIT: Oh, and the thing about the girl with the fruit tray...of course she was invested in you! She brought you a fruit tray on a first date, for God's sake! Don't you think her extreme level of interest played any role in you not liking her as much as she liked you?

Edited June 15, 2013 by eastcoastgirl88
adding to post

[ltjg45]

This topic has gotten a bit interesting.

 

My opinion? It's simple, really.

 

If I like a woman enough to approach her, I will have no problems paying for anything for the first 1-2 dates. However, if she is willing to pay half-way through those 1-2 dates, my interest/attraction to her will definitely increase because I feel like I'm not being taken advantage of and that is a big issue I have when it comes to modern dating.

 

If she doesn't do this (or, at the least, offers to pay) and I don't feel enough attraction after that short period of time, I will simply cut off contact.

 

No, like other males, in this day and age, I don't believe that I have to do the full courting process in the dating game. I got plenty to lose because of this and I'm not going to throw it all away just to possibly please a woman in question.

[eastcoastgirl88]

Allow me to demonstrate.

 

Please explain in 500 words or less why your time is more valuable than mine. Surely you can explain this simple concept to me if you feel you should be financially compensated for deigning me worthy of your presence.

 

I believe our time is equally valuable. I also believe it's the polite thing to do that whomever asks the other out for drinks/coffee/whatever should treat the other person.

 

This is not about financial compensation. It's about basic manners.

[eastcoastgirl88]

Ah, is it time already for this putric spectre of a dead horse to be resurrected for yet another flogging?

 

I'll tell you what, I'll consider paying because I ask someone out once women do 51% of the asking out. Here's to me living for another 225 years.

 

 

There's a lot I find unfair about being a woman, but instead of trying to complain about it, I accept it or find ways to work around it and my life is a lot happier.

 

Why don't you try the same? You admitted it'll never happen, so why not give in?

[Ripnet]

I believe our time is equally valuable. I also believe it's the polite thing to do that whomever asks the other out for drinks/coffee/whatever should treat the other person.

 

This is not about financial compensation. It's about basic manners.

 

I remember this one lady showed interested in me. She was very attractive. She got upset that I didn't ask her out yet she was interested in me. Only one woman has ever asked me out. That's right, once. When women start asking guys out more then I can not say anything.

 

Women want equal rights but not with romance/dating. But it has flaws also because to court someone you need money. Women are taking more of the higher paying jobs. That's right you're taking away jobs from men who are suppose to provide.

 

Why should I take all the risks? Not just finically but asking women out and getting rejected even after dating her. There is little risk for the woman other than her time.

 

I'm not complaining though. I will only go out with women who are willing to be some effort in the beginning. After the relationship starts it maybe a different story.

[eastcoastgirl88]

Because I don't have to. Luckily for me women aren't interconnected through some kind of hivemind where they all agree on everything.

 

I wish you'd understand this. I do not have to pay to get dates, or to get laid, or to be in a relationship. Saying I might be missing out on some fantastic woman is a moot point because by virtue of her expecting me to pay for her because she has a set of ovaries makes her undesirable to me.

 

What is your dating/relationship history, if I may ask? Trying to understand your POV...

[eastcoastgirl88]

I remember this one lady showed interested in me. She was very attractive. She got upset that I didn't ask her out yet she was interested in me. Only one woman has ever asked me out. That's right, once. When women start asking guys out more then I can not say anything.

 

Women want equal rights but not with romance/dating. But it has flaws also because to court someone you need money. Women are taking more of the higher paying jobs. That's right you're taking away jobs from men who are suppose to provide.

 

Why should I take all the risks? Not just finically but asking women out and getting rejected even after dating her. There is little risk for the woman other than her time.

 

I'm not complaining though. I will only go out with women who are willing to be some effort in the beginning. After the relationship starts it maybe a different story.

 

Why didn't you ask that woman out?

 

Also, women aren't "taking all the jobs." Sure, we all work, but the vast majority of men I know make more money than all the girls.

 

There IS risk for women. I realize men put up with a lot of initial rejection, but women deal with a different set of problems entirely. Dating a guy, falling in love with him and then having him "fade away" or "ghost" you or decide he is "done with you" is pretty damn painful for a girl like me who takes sex seriously and doesn't give it away lightly. Guys have have sex all over town and not risk being called a slut OR being emotionally ruined over it.

 

Not trying to compete over who has it worse...just saying each gender has their own set of challenges.

 

If you ask a woman out and she shows up on time, looks beautiful (clearly put effort in) and appreciates your time effort that went into planning/paying for date, isn't that enough "effort"? Aren't you HAPPY to do something nice for someone you like?

[Ripnet]

Because I don't have to. Luckily for me women aren't interconnected through some kind of hivemind where they all agree on everything.

 

I wish you'd understand this. I do not have to pay to get dates, or to get laid, or to be in a relationship. Saying I might be missing out on some fantastic woman is a moot point because by virtue of her expecting me to pay for her because she has a set of ovaries makes her undesirable to me.

 

Same here, plenty of women wanted to go out with me. I have a lot of options and some were willing to pay for me but I don't believe in that. I don't date women who smoke even if they are very attractive and we're a match in every other way.

[Ripnet]

Why didn't you ask that woman out?

 

Also, women aren't "taking all the jobs." Sure, we all work, but the vast majority of men I know make more money than all the girls.

 

There IS risk for women. I realize men put up with a lot of initial rejection, but women deal with a different set of problems entirely. Dating a guy, falling in love with him and then having him "fade away" or "ghost" you or decide he is "done with you" is pretty damn painful for a girl like me who takes sex seriously and doesn't give it away lightly. Guys have have sex all over town and not risk being called a slut OR being emotionally ruined over it.

 

Not trying to compete over who has it worse...just saying each gender has their own set of challenges.

 

If you ask a woman out and she shows up on time, looks beautiful (clearly put effort in) and appreciates your time effort that went into planning/paying for date, isn't that enough "effort"? Aren't you HAPPY to do something nice for someone you like?

 

I didn't ask her out because women give me mixed messages. Some used to play games with my head. I remember one woman come to my work and play games with me. She flirted with me and I didn't have an interest in her. About 5 or 6 months later she asked me why I never asked her out. I told her that I didn't know if she was really interested. Besides I told her that I didn't have her number so she offered it to me. After days later I give her a call and she sounds all nervous and stuff. Then a few times I see her avoiding me by running away fast. I wasn't even trying to talk to her.

 

Another woman flirted with me a lot and it was obvious to me she was interested but when I wanted to date her she turned all weird on me. She avoiding coming to my work like she used to but her room mates still came. Eventually they stop coming. Women have faded away from me too so don't think it's a men's thing. Your reasoning is that women have more to lose but I assure men do too. I remember one guy told me he no longer dates because her ex girlfriend took everything from his apartment while he was at work.

 

More women are higher paying jobs with less risk. More and more lawyers are women. More and more pharmacist are women. Accounting women. Counselling women. More women are graduating from university than men meaning this will lead to higher paying jobs.

 

Many women look beautiful all the time. In fact on the bus many women looked great. I don't like the idea going on a date where people wear clothes like they are going to a job interview or high function meeting. I prefer casual clothes.

 

Btw guys can be called a player if he sleeps around. Men get judged if he dates much younger women but when older women date a younger guy there's very little judgement on her. The thing is you're making all kinds of excuses of why you won't be much effort. Btw I'm going out with a woman to get into pants I can do that just having FWB. I don't need to go out for that and it would be a lot less effort. Plenty of women call a guy an player or a@#$ if he leaves her when he put all the time, money and effort while she put every little other than sex.

Edited June 15, 2013 by Ripnet

[Ripnet]

The woman, who is now anonymous but given (of all things) the fictional name of the Harry Potter character Minerva McGonagall thanks to the fury her story caused, was perfectly happy to share her story. “Before I barely had enough money to pay for food,” she told Business Insider. “After using Match.com I found I wasn’t going into debt anymore.”

 

The woman wasn’t going into debt anymore because men were purchasing one meal a day for her. “Her $45k salary was not enough and she needed at least an extra $500 a month and sometimes $1,000 to pay her credit card bills and afford her $1,475 a month apartment in Murray Hill,” writes BI. “Then she discovered Match.com– the perfect site for a broke 23-year-old.”

 

Her plan involved eating out five nights a week using a rotation of different men from Match and made it a rule not to go out on more than five dates with the same man. She quickly had men buying her not just food but alcohol, even a $200 bottle of champagne on one date.

 

“[she] went from easily spending $500 a month on dinners alone to having someone else dole out an average of $60-plus per night,” writes BI. “She also stopped eating lunch and opted for a light breakfast to save even more.”

Woman Used Match.com Dates For $1200 A Month In Free Dinners | The Mary Sue

 

 

Btw I meet a lady going after free stuff and meals. She admitted later on using men to get things. Of course she didn't say using but that was she was doing playing games with people.