An Irish guy in America

[FitChick]

Maybe it's the drinking. Americans don't drink as much as Brits and Irish.

[jcrew11]

Estate, I like you as a poster and you give good advice. BUT, even though I don't know you personally, I just find it really hard to believe that it is your Irish accent or that you are "not from around here" that is causing you to hit that wall, where the woman doesn't seem to want to become more serious with you.

 

If any city in the US has an Irish-American enclave it's Boston. That's one thing that crossed my mind after reading this thread. Why is their beloved NBA team named the Celtics? Boston also has its share of upwardly mobile professional young women. So somewhere in Boston are the type of women who are compatible with you. And wherever in Boston is a good spot to meet women compatible to you, it's only a short T-ride away.

 

As I said I don't know you but this is my hunch going by your posts on here: Maybe you come across as a little too smooth, a little too put-together, and it is causing the women to not take you too seriously. Often it is that bit of vulnerability/neediness after the attraction that is in place that bonds two people.

 

I completely agree. Everyone in Boston is at least part-Irish so I find it hard to believe that any part-Irish girl would have a negative view of a white-collar Irish guy. I do admit that Americans have elitist viewpoints of the world, we are taught since birth that American and American culture is the best in the world, so we find it difficult to fully accept people from a different culture - we even like to make fun of British people, our closest ancestors. So Americans grow up thinking that American culture is the ideal way to live.

 

But there are also plenty of girls that want a blond blue-eyed Irishman. So I don't think you can blame your accent for your dating failures. You may need to pick better women who want to settle down and accept your lifestyle. You may also try to date other international/foreign-born women who don't mind dating a fellow foreigner.

[Estate]

I don't know what to tell you, my friend. I live in Boston and my experience has been the complete opposite! I'm also foreign, born and raised in Spain, although I became an American citizen back in 2010.

 

I moved here after I split with my ex after an 8 year long relationship and got into a new one 3 months later. The guy was a much younger second-generation Irish, go figure. He never had any issues when I suggested moving to another place when we got married (we were briefly engaged), even though his family is deeply rooted in the area.

 

Now I'm in a different relationship with an American-born Chinese who, like my ex, has no issues with the notion of moving away despite all his family being here.

 

Honestly, I think you're meeting the wrong kind of girl. Boston is full of young professionals like you and me, and the type of girl you describe sounds more like the small-town types that predate the North Shore. Another thing Boston is chock-full? Immigrants (and their descendants) of ANY flavor, but specially Irish, Italian, and Chinese! I have no idea how you're managing to avoid all of these girls and meeting only the small-town all-American girls.

 

Broaden your search!

 

Arabella,

Thanks for that, really nice to hear from someone who has been in the similar position in the same place.

 

I'm a young professional myself. What I find is this... a lot of folks work in the financial district like myself, the majority are married or even if not live back in their home town to "save money". I have a sister in London and Friday at 5pm, the offices spill over into the restaurants and bars and there's lots of oppertunity to get to know co-workers and other professionals.

Around here, by 5pm the office is already deserted, everyone has run the the 4.30 MBTA back to <insert hometown outside he city>. Town livens up again by 9-10pm but generally with most of the types I have described.

 

I mean, in some ways, it's not ALL bad. I have dated students and grad students and I'm not taking anything away from them but its hard to find someone actually looking to settle and even if they are, as soon as graduation comes, then their ideas change, they want to see the big bright world, it's only natural but that has been the painful experience of dating students here.

 

I'd LOVE to meet more people like myself, mid-late twenties, professionals, living in or near the city. But I'm just not finding it. Most are married, engaged or single for obvious reasons.

Do you ahve suggestions of where you hung out and where you met people in Boston?

 

It's not that I wouldn't move if I was in a relationship and my partner wanted/needed to... that stuff happens and I'm quite open to moving, I've lived in a lot of places around the world. But the obsticle is not that they ask "I got offered a job across the country, how do you feel about moving there?"... it's more like "Well, now my time in Boston has finished, I'm off back to X... See ya!".

 

Again, I'm speaking about dating people who are seriosu about something longterm. I don't really have problems meeting people. Every weekend I go out with friends and we always get chatting to people, I do pretty ok with girls but lets be honest... it gets boring/tiring.... I feel like I've met half the girls in the city, that I even bump into them quite often around town again during the day or at night. But if I want a fling or a hookup, fine, I can do that... but I'm tiring of it... I'd love to meet someone serious about a relationship but willing to look past their highschool mates when they are heading for 30 years old!?!?

 

Any suggestions where you hung out, etc, yourself? I'd very much like to hear your experiences.

[Estate]

Estate, I like you as a poster and you give good advice. BUT, even though I don't know you personally, I just find it really hard to believe that it is your Irish accent or that you are "not from around here" that is causing you to hit that wall, where the woman doesn't seem to want to become more serious with you.

 

If any city in the US has an Irish-American enclave it's Boston. That's one thing that crossed my mind after reading this thread. Why is their beloved NBA team named the Celtics? Boston also has its share of upwardly mobile professional young women. So somewhere in Boston are the type of women who are compatible with you. And wherever in Boston is a good spot to meet women compatible to you, it's only a short T-ride away.

 

As I said I don't know you but this is my hunch going by your posts on here: Maybe you come across as a little too smooth, a little too put-together, and it is causing the women to not take you too seriously. Often it is that bit of vulnerability/neediness after the attraction that is in place that bonds two people.

 

Well it's like anything I preach on here.... there's not ONE single thing... perhaps I could be a better BF in many ways but it's all about experience and learning. But it's hard to learn without opportunities.

 

As far as the Irish thing goes... it's a positive in the beginning, but then they realise that I am not quite like the guys they dated in high school and the few girls I've dated longterm have either cheated on me or gone right back to their old exes.

 

But just look at FitChicks first post... I know she meant well but she proved my point... it's the first thing that came to mind with her... what does he want, why is he here, is he legal, is he just looking for a green card!?!? But it's hard to make someone not have that first impression of you short of just saying it outright the first thing you say to them (which is weird).

 

In terms of the "Irish-American" thing.... it's actually a sticking point. There IS a big community like that in Boston which is why these people like the accent initially.... but us Irish have VERY little in common with them. They often insult us with IRA chants and claims of Irishness without knowing anything about us, its a very different culture to actually being Irish. That is why I always see the initial allure of the accent to them, but quite quickly we find we are just not on the same page.

[Estate]

Maybe it's the drinking. Americans don't drink as much as Brits and Irish.

 

FitChick... ANOTHER derogatory stereotype from you? Really?

 

I mean... I don't drink stupid amounts. I enjoy a beer but don't get stupid drunk.... ever.

Truth be told despite the rep we get... we tend to "hold" our drink much better.

 

So again... you are just proving my point. Never met me, don't know me yet just from me saying I'm Irish you have listing out ALL the stereotypes I have to deal with upon meeting women (or even male friends) here.

 

If you go on the town the weekend and see guys fighting and falling about drunk... to be honest, it's just funny to us that guys here drink so little and get so wasted. Plus I'm well beyond my college years of night out after night out.

 

YET you are just proving my point. To be honest what you're saying it just plain offensive to me.

[Estate]

Do you plan on having children? Also you're doing your self a great disservice with your girls checking off a box theory.

 

Wow..... just Wow.

[Imajerk17]

Estate, I'm not discounting the rest of your post, but I'd like to comment on the part I quoted first.

 

I remember the girl you posted about just before the holidays. Her so-called ex (he was once her fiancee) was posting stuff on her wall pretty much all during your relationship with her, and then she ended it by leaving you for him. (Supposedly anyway--she just "vanished" on you and her fb suggested that the two of them got back together.) I recall wondering why you didn't put your foot down on all this early on.

 

You instead did the "non-needy" thing of letting her work it out, and I didn't think that was wise. If you had been assertive and actually stooped to the level of showing some jealousy she might have stopped talking to him. OR you would have seen much sooner that this guy was always going to come first. And then you could have been the one to break up with her instead of her pulling a disappearing act.

 

Overall I am wondering if there is something missing when it comes to you connecting with these girls.

 

When you run into these girls again, do you ever ask what happened? Did you ever hear from that girl you dated late last year?

 

 

Well it's like anything I preach on here.... there's not ONE single thing... perhaps I could be a better BF in many ways but it's all about experience and learning. But it's hard to learn without opportunities.

 

As far as the Irish thing goes... it's a positive in the beginning, but then they realise that I am not quite like the guys they dated in high school and the few girls I've dated longterm have either cheated on me or gone right back to their old exes.

Edited June 13, 2013 by Imajerk17

[Estate]

Estate, I'm not discounting the rest of your post, but I'd like to comment on the part I quoted first.

 

I remember the girl you posted about just before the holidays. Her so-called ex (he was once her fiancee) was posting stuff on her wall pretty much all during your relationship with her, and then she ended it by leaving you for him. (Supposedly anyway--she just "vanished" on you and her fb suggested that the two of them got back together.) I recall wondering why you didn't put your foot down on all this early on.

 

You instead did the "non-needy" thing of letting her work it out, and I didn't think that was wise. If you had been assertive and actually stooped to the level of showing some jealousy she might have stopped talking to him. OR you would have seen much sooner that this guy was always going to come first. And then you could have been the one to break up with her instead of her pulling a disappearing act.

 

Overall I am wondering if there is something missing when it comes to you connecting with these girls.

 

When you run into these girls again, do you ever ask what happened? Did you ever hear from that girl you dated late last year?

 

Honestly... yes, that girl was from last Nov/Dec... and you're totally right. I didn't play it out well at all. I was just a bit passive about it and tried to let it play out assuming she'd make the right choice but it'd didn't go all roses. That being said, I think whatever I did, she'd always have ended up back with him.

 

But more importantly I have to stress here... That was ONE girl I posted about and it was 6-7 months ago. I've met a LOT of women before and since so I just don't want to make this thread about THAT girl or her situation in particular. It was one isolated girl I posted about, if I posted about every girl I've met in the last 3 years there would be a lot of threads on here from me.

 

I also have to stress... this isn't a "Oh I'm a loser, I can't get girls" thread. I'm a very social guy these days, I meet girls (and guys, but not in THAT way, haha) everywhere I go. I'm not asking "how to meet girls". I'm asking more in terms of relationships and making something working longer term. I admit, there maybe be other reasons contributing to things ending. That's always the case but as FitChick is proving, there's a lot of stereotypes and assumptions and I find it hard to make people look past it.

I mean, I met a girl last Friday... same thing, had an amazing night... I knew the score though, we won't be going out again... sure, fine, I know the score. I was a notch on the bedpost... and that is all

 

Everyone THINKS they are tolerant of everyone and everything these days... but it's ok when you don't have to deal with it.

[Imajerk17]

Sure. I get that you meet and date and get physical with women regularly. I don't doubt that. I also get that this girl I brought up was just one girl. It is indeed quite possible she would have ended up with him regardless of what you did.

 

I brought up this girl though, because I wonder if it is a pattern. You seem to do all the "right" things when you'd be better off "screwing up" a bit and showing just a bit of neediness or jealousy or irritation.

 

Read the threads from the women on here who post about the guys in their life. Contrary to what the PUAs might say, women just don't get "perfect game". If you can't match some of their insecurities with some of your own, they are going to get skittish that you are too perfect for them and bail.

 

Honestly... yes, that girl was from last Nov/Dec... and you're totally right. I didn't play it out well at all. I was just a bit passive about it and tried to let it play out assuming she'd make the right choice but it'd didn't go all roses. That being said, I think whatever I did, she'd always have ended up back with him.

 

But more importantly I have to stress here... That was ONE girl I posted about and it was 6-7 months ago. I've met a LOT of women before and since so I just don't want to make this thread about THAT girl or her situation in particular. It was one isolated girl I posted about, if I posted about every girl I've met in the last 3 years there would be a lot of threads on here from me.

 

I also have to stress... this isn't a "Oh I'm a loser, I can't get girls" thread. I'm a very social guy these days, I meet girls (and guys, but not in THAT way, haha) everywhere I go. I'm not asking "how to meet girls". I'm asking more in terms of relationships and making something working longer term. I admit, there maybe be other reasons contributing to things ending. That's always the case but as FitChick is proving, there's a lot of stereotypes and assumptions and I find it hard to make people look past it.

I mean, I met a girl last Friday... same thing, had an amazing night... I knew the score though, we won't be going out again... sure, fine, I know the score. I was a notch on the bedpost... and that is all

 

Everyone THINKS they are tolerant of everyone and everything these days... but it's ok when you don't have to deal with it.

Edited June 13, 2013 by Imajerk17

[CryForNoOne]

I lived in Boston for several years, and my impression is that it is, in many ways, very small-town-like. It's a pretty insular city. (I am including Cambridge, Somerville, etc. in this - greater Boston area).

 

When you first said northeast US, I was surprised, because I've lived in every major metropolis on the northeastern corridor, and had rarely experienced that. But then I wondered if perhaps you meant Boston - and lo and behold, you did.

 

Honestly? I think it's a location artefact. NYC or DC, for example, are full of people who have done precisely what you talk about - left their small towns for bigger opportunities, without any plans to go back and marry their high school sweethearts. So moving might help you a lot, in terms of finding people who don't have that return-to-my-hometown fantasy.

 

Another point, on the younger folks - yes, there are tons of students in Boston, but that does include tons of grad students, too. So, you know, people who might be more age-appropriate. Might be worth keeping in mind as well.

 

That was really interesting about your accent, by the way. I can totally see where you're coming from on that...makes a lot of sense.

 

Boston is shockingly provincial considering how many colleges, universities, and tech companies are there. Its this weird melting pot of liberals, intellectuals, and townies. I am a bit surprised he is experiencing that in Cambridge as well though as I always felt that area was the notable exception. I was married at the time but did work for a tech company in Boston in my late 20's. I definitely noticed that the single WHITE women almost always fell into the pattern of living in the city for a few years then hooking up with a guy and moving to the burbs like Medfield, Sudbury, Hopkington or whatever. Even the transplants seemed to marry a local and then just blend right in to the extremely close knit family thing. Unless both were transplants, it seemed everybody just married into a family that spent a lot of time in New Hampshire, Vermont, or the Cape during the weekends and if you weren't part of the "family", you weren't invited. It's like the circle of trust in Meet the Parents...

[Estate]

Boston is shockingly provincial considering how many colleges, universities, and tech companies are there. Its this weird melting pot of liberals, intellectuals, and townies. I am a bit surprised he is experiencing that in Cambridge as well though as I always felt that area was the notable exception. I was married at the time but did work for a tech company in Boston in my late 20's. I definitely noticed that the single WHITE women almost always fell into the pattern of living in the city for a few years then hooking up with a guy and moving to the burbs like Medfield, Sudbury, Hopkington or whatever. Even the transplants seemed to marry a local and then just blend right in to the extremely close knit family thing. Unless both were transplants, it seemed everybody just married into a family that spent a lot of time in New Hampshire, Vermont, or the Cape during the weekends and if you weren't part of the "family", you weren't invited. It's like the circle of trust in Meet the Parents...

 

Exactly....

One girl I dated literally had a huge row with me because she hadn't got to meet my family yet. I was like "Um, they live in other countries! And haven't visited this year yet, of course I want you to meet them." But she just couldn't comprehend we wouldn't be spending our weekends BBQing with my parents on the Cape or something like that... it's just the "norm" and as tolerant as I'm sure she'd say she is off all people... she simply couldn't comprehend that that wouldn't be the life with someone she ended up with... It sounds so simple but it's so difficult.

[Estate]

Just another little tale from the last week here.

Met a girl at a party last weekend, we were making out within about 10 minutes and ended up coming home with me.

 

This week she has been in contact. She's contacting me yet TRYING to set the tone as if I'm chasing her. She's actually really cute and seemed nice and was considering trying to see her again.

She got in contact last night looking to meet up. When I suggested we meet for a drink somewhere between where we both live she tried to flip the script and tell me that I was just looking for a booty call and she's not that type of girl, I'd have to buy her dinner and drinks to get anywhere with her, and even then she's still not that type.

 

I mean... really?

It didn't take a lot to get her into bed last week. Now she's trying to tell me how classy she is and I'll have to buy her expensive things to see her again, when SHE was the one looking to see me in the first place.

 

Also... since when is asking if someone wants to actually meet for drinks a booty call??? Why on earth would I do anything but tell her to come to my place if it was a booty call (which I wasn't going to do).

 

Seriously, they are just head wrecking at this point. I mean, she's already slept with me that soon, you can't really flip the script like that now and make me think you are super hard to get. I was giving her the benefit of the doubt by seeing what she'd be like over drinks and she just ended up making it too hard on herself.... this is all I meet, girls playing little girls games. It really wears me out.

[eastcoastgirl88]

I also live in Boston. Hi!

 

This sounds like a pretty terrible predicament to be in. I'll try to give my take on it, as someone who considers herself pretty wordly and cultured.

 

I came from California to Boston for school and stayed after graduation. I've lived with international roommates and I've lived abroad.

 

While I would 100% move somewhere within the US, I would still have a really hard time marrying a foreigner. It's just not "typical" and "normal" for Americans to do so.

 

You mentioned that it's "normal" and "expected" for educated people to leave Ireland and work abroad. Well, it's "normal" and "expected" for Americans to stay and work in the US. The vast majority of opportunities are, as you know, in the US. Why would we need to move anywhere?

 

Marrying a foreigner would make me a bit nervous because I would be afraid he would want to go back to whatever country he was from.

 

You also must understand America is a much larger and diverse place than anywhere in the world. You can get a lot of different experiences within our one gigantic country.

 

The one thing that holds us together though is patriotism. As I'm sure you've picked up on, Americans are VERY into being American. While I love traveling and learning about other cultures, I identify strongly as an American and can't imagine ever wanting to make my life in another country.

 

That may help you understand why Americans are into being in LTR's with other Americans.

 

As for the reason American girls play head games, it's just another aspect of American dating you'll have to get used to. Girls expect guys to pay for things and treat them to dates. It's just the way it is.

 

Tell me more about how it is in Ireland. I'm really curious.

[eastcoastgirl88]

Just another little tale from the last week here.

Met a girl at a party last weekend, we were making out within about 10 minutes and ended up coming home with me.

 

This week she has been in contact. She's contacting me yet TRYING to set the tone as if I'm chasing her. She's actually really cute and seemed nice and was considering trying to see her again.

She got in contact last night looking to meet up. When I suggested we meet for a drink somewhere between where we both live she tried to flip the script and tell me that I was just looking for a booty call and she's not that type of girl, I'd have to buy her dinner and drinks to get anywhere with her, and even then she's still not that type.

 

I mean... really?

It didn't take a lot to get her into bed last week. Now she's trying to tell me how classy she is and I'll have to buy her expensive things to see her again, when SHE was the one looking to see me in the first place.

 

Also... since when is asking if someone wants to actually meet for drinks a booty call??? Why on earth would I do anything but tell her to come to my place if it was a booty call (which I wasn't going to do).

 

Seriously, they are just head wrecking at this point. I mean, she's already slept with me that soon, you can't really flip the script like that now and make me think you are super hard to get. I was giving her the benefit of the doubt by seeing what she'd be like over drinks and she just ended up making it too hard on herself.... this is all I meet, girls playing little girls games. It really wears me out.

 

Oh, and when American guys suggest things like meeting a girl halfway for a drink, 9/10 times they mean "booty call."

 

This miscommunication is just an example of cultural differences. Next time it happens I would suggest explaining you aren't familiar with American dating customs and you really aren't trying to be rude.

[Estate]

Thanks for your input Eastcoastgirl.

 

But how does someone get around all that? I mean, everyone says they are "open" to other cultures, people, religions, etc, etc... but when it comes down to it, its very much as you described.... rather than take me on face value as a person, my background doesn't fit their ideal. TBH, meetings someone who can open up my world a bit is very attractive but here? Nope, you just gotta be a fratboy into your 30s. Its so odd.

 

I mean, yes, its very frustrating. For people who are so "open", your constantly questioned and judged on your motives. I mean, in an LTR, Id be open to moving with someone if it was for real but have no intentions of making someone up roots and move to Ireland, I'm not here to do that. I'm here to build a good like... HERE.

 

Ireland is very different, you don't date multiple people or hookup so much or play so many games.

 

As far as the hookup things, yeah, I get it but its so dumb... really.

We were on opposite ends of town and I was on my "home" side as my friends were about to leave for home early. I wasn't up for going across and then having to travel double the distance home again which she knew so I suggested we meet in the middle somewhere. If I wanted a booty call, I wouldn't be going AWAY from home and offering her a drink... she interpreted it a certain way but honestly its so childish its turned me right off her.

[eastcoastgirl88]

Thanks for your input Eastcoastgirl.

 

But how does someone get around all that? I mean, everyone says they are "open" to other cultures, people, religions, etc, etc... but when it comes down to it, its very much as you described.... rather than take me on face value as a person, my background doesn't fit their ideal. TBH, meetings someone who can open up my world a bit is very attractive but here? Nope, you just gotta be a fratboy into your 30s. Its so odd.

 

I mean, yes, its very frustrating. For people who are so "open", your constantly questioned and judged on your motives. I mean, in an LTR, Id be open to moving with someone if it was for real but have no intentions of making someone up roots and move to Ireland, I'm not here to do that. I'm here to build a good like... HERE.

 

Ireland is very different, you don't date multiple people or hookup so much or play so many games.

 

As far as the hookup things, yeah, I get it but its so dumb... really.

We were on opposite ends of town and I was on my "home" side as my friends were about to leave for home early. I wasn't up for going across and then having to travel double the distance home again which she knew so I suggested we meet in the middle somewhere. If I wanted a booty call, I wouldn't be going AWAY from home and offering her a drink... she interpreted it a certain way but honestly its so childish its turned me right off her.

 

She took it as, "He's making ME come to HIM? No way. He should come to ME."

 

Maybe it's childish, but that's honestly what I would think. When dealing with guys I don't think rationally like that. American girls are taught all their lives (or at least my social circle was) to have the guy go great distances and put forth a ton of effort to find out if he's "deserving" of you.

 

You're really making me think about reasons I would be opposed to dating, let's say, a nice Irish boy!

 

Well, I wouldn't be, because I did date one about four or five years ago for a summer. Hehehe!

 

But let's take him out of the equation. Let me put on my thinking cap as if I'm a regular American girl, like the ones you've described.

 

Well, yes, the accent is a novelty, but like all novelties, eventually you want familiarity. It is so odd to date someone who talks differently than you when you think about it. I liken accents to sleeping in a hotel bed. Sure it's awesome, especially at first. All comfy and fluffy and new. But eventually you just want your old, familiar bed.

 

Second, customs. You mentioned the BBQ on the Cape. LOL. It's true, girls do have fantasies about what their lives will be like. But look at it this way...YOU DO TO! For you, it's normal to be here, working, your siblings spread out all over the globe.

 

That is NOT normal for an American family. AT ALL.

 

So really, we're just dealing with two types of normal.

 

Your normal is moving away, living abroad etc. Her normal is staying close to home.

 

As for how to get around it, I guess find a girl like me who, for the most part, doesn't care? LOL.

 

Honestly though, it sounds like you're meeting a lot of these girls out at bars and stuff. I would try meeting girls through activities, classes etc. Summer is great. You should take sailing lessons. That's where I met my Irish BF--he was my instructor! I got to know him as a friend first, and eventually I didn't hear the accent and he was just a cool guy.