He said "You're paying on the second date."

[escafeld]

Yeah, I would next him. If a guy doesn't pay the first few dates it really leaves a bad taste in my mouth. It's not even if he is into me or not but more how he views money. I HATE people that are tight a $$ es as friends or lovers. I am extremly genereous with money so it points to incompatibility long term.

 

Conversely do you think it leaves a 'bad taste' in an 'extremely generous' guy's mouth when the expectation is he pays for the 'first few dates'?

[escafeld]

Yes, This guy has been single for 4 years and said he didn't have a big social life at university, he is someone who keeps himself to himself. So I think he has forgotten how to treat women.

 

As an equal would be the most positive expectation.

[escafeld]

Yeppppppppp.

It has nothing to do with her not wanting to pay or expecting him to, it's the fact that he felt it was "flirty" to automatically make her feel like HE was expecting her too. Maybe that wasn't what he meant, but that is how it came off, and it's just TACKY.

 

 

I am sure if it was the other way around and the woman said that some of you men would still make her out to be a money hungry ho. Lol

The fact of the matter is that he said something that I as a HUMAN wouldnt say unless I knew the person really well and knew it wouldn't be misconstrued.

 

But we're viewing the text in isolation and out of context to the rest of their evening together.

 

The OP acknowledges she was drawn to this man and enjoyed their evening together. She also says she tried to pay the bill and he wouldn't let her.

 

In my view the intention of the text was two fold:

 

a) It was a slightly risque attempt at humour to test the compatibility waters.

 

b) It was acknowledging her offer to pay and that he has no problem letting a date pay to take him out.

 

I've personally had instances where women I've met on dates have been very offended by my insistence to pay. It sounds to me like this chap is covering all the bases and doing so in a diplomatic way without making a big deal out of it.

[escafeld]

Really? A joke? That is a pretty lame, poorly timed, poorly worded, ineffective joke.

 

And, more importantly, it was not a joke.

 

Even if it weren't a joke, why would someone become grievously offended by it?

 

As others have said a response 'in kind' would have been the best response ie "that's fine, bread & water at mine then ;)", that would establish the nature of his original text.

[Calcmag]

He's trying to prove whether you share his irreverent sense of humour.

 

If you're able to get the 'joke' it's an indicator of whether you're likely to get on in the future on a superficial level.

 

I tend to agree with this post.

 

With all the cries of 'tacky' on the thread, I'm wondering if there's a cultural thing going on here though - some nationalities (mine, for example) are known for their rather 'dry humour' and it's well known that it doesn't often translate well. Even to other speakers of the same language.

 

I think the guy was joking., and at this point I feel kind of sorry for him, because it sounds as if the date was enjoyable. Then he wrote a silly text and possibly blew it...

[escafeld]

I think you misunderstood his words.

 

In my opinion maybe the words were coming from a place in his head that wants to know if youll meet him halfway.

 

I know there is a term for this i just forgot.

 

I dont know if youll understand what im saying so im going to try to put it in a different manner.

 

he might just be trying to see if you would be willing to put in your 50% of time and money into the beggining of a possible relationship.. he probrably doesnt even know he's doing that but thats the magic of having a brain...

 

I think that view can be discounted yessy21 because he already knows she'll meet him halfway because she offered to pay in the first instance.

[escafeld]

I tend to agree with this post.

 

With all the cries of 'tacky' on the thread, I'm wondering if there's a cultural thing going on here though - some nationalities (mine, for example) are known for their rather 'dry humour' and it's well known that it doesn't often translate well. Even to other speakers of the same language.

 

I think the guy was joking., and at this point I feel kind of sorry for him, because it sounds as if the date was enjoyable. Then he wrote a silly text and possibly blew it...

 

That's a good point Calcmag, I have noticed that the posts I've agreed with are from Brits-yours and I'm guessing Estate's one of us as he mentions 'pub crawls' something we tend to do too much of!

[MidwestUSA]

Sweeetie: I'm glad to see that you've agreed to a second date and I hope it goes well!

[bac]

And this was after we had agreed to a second date so it wasn't a discreet invitation to meet again! So the story is..

He replied saying "Me too :-) Yes and next time, dinner and drinks are on you too ;-)"

 

Isn't this a little rude, and also strange? This guy is also quite rich and earns a lot, whereas I just finished university and have a simple casual job at the moment. Besides what is the point in insisting on paying for a girl if you tell her to pay next time- doesn't that ruin the point and isn't it against the "showing masculinity" thing?

 

This rudeness is a bit of a turn-off for me and it's scarred the good impression I had of him during our date. Should I talk to him about it?

 

IMO it might mean that he does not give a f...k for the second date with you.

It might mean that he is kind of emotionally stupied and has too much money, so, he cannot figure out that it might be a problem for anyone to pay for dinner.

You should not talk to him about that because it is hopeless anyway.

 

The best thing is to learn things IRL. So, if you have enough money to pay for dinner and you want to do that, you might do that and see what happens. So, next time, when you meet a guy who asks you to pay for his dinner, you will know what to do about the situation.

[escafeld]

I'm of the opinion that you should poke all the holes you want. The reason why most LTR fail is because people aren't picky enough in the beginning. They just want to be in relationship so they ignore the signs or their gut tellling them something is wrong. Then, months or years down the line, when they can't stand it anymore, it all comes out and they break up, having wasted all that time when it could have been avoided in the beginning.

 

When I look back on my failed relationships, I can see the very obvious signs I ignored at the time. If I had just been pickier or more selective I could have saved myself a lot of anguish.

 

Interesting perspective. Im sufficiently old in the tooth to have tried and experienced almost every possible relationship scenario going from a two decade marriage, a 6 year post divorce relationship and various shorter ones in between.

 

On the one hand we're conditioned to not accept second best, but on the other we're not conditioned to acknowledge our own shortcomings and take account of them-how many times do we counsel our friends in relationship crises with words like "well if he/she wont accept you as you are..."

 

So we're left with our 'imperfect' selves seeking a life long relationship with a 'perfect' partner...and never the twain shall meet!

[escafeld]

Can say I've never had this problem as I always pay for the second date anyway.

 

But what if she doesn't want you to, MidwestUSA??

 

That's an ultimate headwreck conundrum!!

[escafeld]

He's just trying to be cheeky. He's not actually going to make you pay.

For god sake stop analysing.

 

Spot on and he's also leaving the door open to the possibility that she can pay if she prefers to.

[Calcmag]

That's a good point Calcmag, I have noticed that the posts I've agreed with are from Brits-yours and I'm guessing Estate's one of us as he mentions 'pub crawls' something we tend to do too much of!

 

Yes.

When I read the OP I interpreted it as just tongue in cheek banter. The sort of thing 'we' do all the time right ? Especially during pub crawls (although I'm far too old for them now) and the morning after

 

Having read the other replies on the thread I can see why Sweetie was upset and offended by it. Part of me hopes that he wasn't joking because I really do feel for him if he did intend it as a banter.

[RedRobin]

The problem is that it is simply not right for someone to literally tell someone else to pay. And that, at such an early stage where you're trying to show your best side to someone you are trying to impress, brings with it red flags. You don't make a joke like that.

 

It is like, someone makes you a batch of cookies, gives it to you, then you send them a thank you and appreciative text after they go home and they reply with "you are going to bake me a cake tomorrow ;)". That might have been what you were planning to do for them anyway, but this message defeats the sweet gesture completely and makes you think "ah so that's why you made me the cookies."

 

The whole reason why he paid, whether to impress me or to just show his manly side, has now gone completely out the window for this comment, and I respect him less. It ruined the gratitude and awe I had for him because he literally told me to do the same for him (not that I wouldn't have anyway)

 

I'd respect him less too.

 

It will be interesting to see how he manages this and future dates...

 

I dumped a guy who was like this... He could barely manage to hand me a tissue without calculating what was in it for him or telling me how I could repay the 'favor'... or whatever.

[mesmerized]

I'd next him. He probably paid because he was hoping to get lucky and now that he didn't he feels taken advantage of. What a loser.

[Xinreeki]

I'd respect him less too.

 

It will be interesting to see how he manages this and future dates...

 

I dumped a guy who was like this... He could barely manage to hand me a tissue without calculating what was in it for him or telling me how I could repay the 'favor'... or whatever.

 

Really?? For a relationship you need empathy, at least some empathy! Otherwise its going to be more like a business partnership isn't it?

 

In this case though, as I've said, I agree with most of the guys here, I think he made a poorly considered joke, and should be given another chance.

 

However, maybe OP, you should mention to him that you found his text a bit odd, so he is aware of your take on things too, and can avoid making a similar ill considered "joke" in the future.

 

Still, of course, it might turn out that if your senses of humor are incompatible, the relationship would be rocky anyway, depending on how important sharing a sense of humor is to you, and how important it is to him?

[Calcmag]

He's just trying to be cheeky. He's not actually going to make you pay.

For god sake stop analysing.

 

Agree. But OP if you go on the date and have some sort of attitude because of all this - there's a very good chance he WILL make you pay!

 

Look, you had a nice first date, you liked him, he treated you well, you felt attraction. Give the guy a chance. The only problem that I see here at this point is that you two don't share the same sense of humour. Yes that may be a problem going forward.

Go on the second date but only go if you can have a positive attitude toward him and have fun.

[RedRobin]

People are seriously missing the point here...

 

She was doing her best to make their first meetings NOT ABOUT MONEY.

 

She had a good time and expressed her gratitude.

 

He stomped on it with a lame "me too" and used precious text time to make a demand... a rather passive-aggressive one at that... RATHER THAN EXPRESS INTEREST AND EQUAL GRATITUDE.

 

You guys who say she should overlook it don't have a clue.. or you are equally guilty of caring ZERO about a woman's time and feelings... which is all too common... unfortunately.

 

Sorry... it sounds like the OP is looking for a man with high EQ. This dufus just doesn't have it. NEXT!

[Ed the 3rd]

When it comes to dating, it should NEVER be awkward. There should be a smooth, comfortable flow to it. If someone does something right off the bat that makes you feel awkward or makes you wonder, "what's with this person?", then I would just move on.

 

Seriously. The little "weirdness" you "feel" in the beginning...that's your gut telling you it's not right.

 

And what he said just sounds downright cheesy to me. What guy says that? He's obviously a very frugal guy who is probably VERY uptight with money.

That honestly made be chuckle. Its not like he made the journey and paid for the meal and drinks himself. Whatever happened to cutting a guy some slack?

[RedRobin]

Really?? For a relationship you need empathy, at least some empathy! Otherwise its going to be more like a business partnership isn't it?

 

His text demonstrates he has limited empathy and gratitude.

 

She is trying to avoid men like that... or situations where she is constantly giving the other person the benefit of the doubt while he is transactional and a taker.

 

Since so many men are quite accustomed to being takers emotionally, it is not surprising that people insist she exercise her EQ while he is expected to have little or none.

 

In other words... she is looking for a man with high EQ. He doesn't have it.

[escafeld]

People are seriously missing the point here...

 

She was doing her best to make their first meetings NOT ABOUT MONEY.

 

She had a good time and expressed her gratitude.

 

He stomped on it with a lame "me too" and used precious text time to make a demand... a rather passive-aggressive one at that... RATHER THAN EXPRESS INTEREST AND EQUAL GRATITUDE.

 

You guys who say she should overlook it don't have a clue.. or you are equally guilty of caring ZERO about a woman's time and feelings... which is all too common... unfortunately.

 

Sorry... it sounds like the OP is looking for a man with high EQ. This dufus just doesn't have it. NEXT!

 

..and perhaps what you're missing is that many of we men have an appreciation that by swiping the bill and insisting on paying it can come across as patronising and ill judged to an independent woman. Many women don't think like that but an increasing number do and are perfectly entitled to.

 

Believe me, I've had otherwise successful dates proceed no further because the lady in question has felt my payment of the bill is demeaning to her and places her under obligation. I'm not at all saying that's the case but a savvy man will have a full appreciation of that possibility.

 

The OP suggests she made a deliberate play to pay the bill (rather than just a gesture), so the man knows full well she's capable of paying, so the text could have simply been a hamfisted way of acknowledging that and that him paying the first one places her under no subconscious obligation towards him...if you see what I mean.

[Xinreeki]

People are seriously missing the point here...

 

She was doing her best to make their first meetings NOT ABOUT MONEY.

 

She had a good time and expressed her gratitude.

 

He stomped on it with a lame "me too" and used precious text time to make a demand... a rather passive-aggressive one at that... RATHER THAN EXPRESS INTEREST AND EQUAL GRATITUDE.

 

You guys who say she should overlook it don't have a clue.. or you are equally guilty of caring ZERO about a woman's time and feelings... which is all too common... unfortunately.

 

Sorry... it sounds like the OP is looking for a man with high EQ. This dufus just doesn't have it. NEXT!

 

She knows more about what happened and how it happened than any of us here, and only she can really know for sure how she feels about him, what happened and what he said.

 

I agree if the OP was really turned off by the comment, to such an extent that she doesn't think her feelings for him could ever return, then yes, of course she should move on to the next one. Its completely up to her!

 

All I'm suggesting is that as the date went well otherwise, (minus the badly worded text), it seems to me he's worth giving the benefit of the doubt and given a 2nd chance.

 

Especially as the emotions and motivations behind a few words strung together in a text can be very difficult to interpret at the best of times, and its easy for someone to slip up and say the wrong thing in a moment of stupidity... I know I've done it before, worded things the wrong way, said something I didn't mean.

 

So, if they otherwise got on well and she still thinks he's worth giving a shot then I'd say go for it! We all make mistakes after all, and at one point or another we'd all like a 2nd chance to make a first impression or to take back something we said without thinking / in the heat of the moment etc.

 

Again, only the OP really knows what the chemistry / compatibility / empathy / communication etc was like between them during the date, so only she can know whether she has more reasons to question his intentions and judge his character for compatibility / lack of compatibility with her own.

 

And if she isn't feeling it, has been turned off him, then yes, she should move on / date more people to find someone who is more compatible with her own ways of thinking / sense of humor / dating etiquette / emotional level of intelligence / empathy etc.

[MidwestUSA]

But what if she doesn't want you to, MidwestUSA??

 

That's an ultimate headwreck conundrum!!

I have a feeling this guy is more than willing to pay if he is truly interested in her, and maybe even took it as a slight when she offered her money the first time. His (I don't want to call it tacky or lame or classless, because this has gone too far) comment could have been a response to that affront to his masculinity and the "rule" that men pay on the first date. So much could have been avoided here by simply SPEAKING on the phone rather than TEXTING! Maybe he's just not good at conveying himself via text; I know I'm not. So there, I've acknowledged a shortcoming, dear me, I fear no one will accept me as I am and look past my horrid social skills. .

[Xinreeki]

His text demonstrates he has limited empathy and gratitude.

 

She is trying to avoid men like that... or situations where she is constantly giving the other person the benefit of the doubt while he is transactional and a taker.

 

Since so many men are quite accustomed to being takers emotionally, it is not surprising that people insist she exercise her EQ while he is expected to have little or none.

 

In other words... she is looking for a man with high EQ. He doesn't have it.

 

If that is what she is looking for, then yes, I completely agree with you. She should move on to find someone who has that high EQ.

[RedRobin]

This is absurd. He put a smilie face after the statement. He was clearly trying

to be funny, and to acknowledge the fact that she offered to pay.

 

No. He was making an ill-timed demand and put a stupid smiley face on it to soften it. Rude.

 

Like I said... I've always offered to pay every single time I've ever gone on a date with someone. Never have they made a comment like this to me.

 

I can't believe people are overanalyzing it to this point. I can't believe the

OP is overanalyzing it to this point.

 

Sounds to me like she is really disappointed that he took what was a pleasant evening and then chose to use precious text time to make a demand after she already proved she was willing to meet him halfway.

 

Good lord, people. The man may lack some tact, or have said something not

entirely "socially acceptable", but guess what? A lot of humor has those traits.

 

ok... well, then he'll know better next time not to do that.

 

So your biggest problem with this is that you personally haven't encountered

this particular phrase in your own personal dating life?

 

Yep... and when I came across men who returned my statements of gratitude with more demands (like this guy did) instead of shared gratitude... no matter what context it was in (business or personal)... they always turned out to be huge takers.

 

How is he being ungrateful? HE paid. It seems to be HER who is picking apart a

stupid little text message after he traveled to see her AND paid.

 

By reminding her of their little transaction and making this date about money. If he didn't want to come out there and didn't want to pay, then don't. Obviously, he was expecting something else from this date that he didn't get... One can only speculate what that something else was....

 

No, because that would assume he knows her budget. Which I would imagine he

doesn't. And which, at this point in their relationship (early), is really none

of his business.

 

oh baloney. She already gave him some indication of her budget. Read again.

 

 

Resentful tone? Which one? The resentful tone that was accompanied with a winking smilie?

 

Ok...

 

You are an *sshole

 

does the smiley face make it alright?

 

Or, how about this...

 

How about next time you encourage guys to have more tact...