Good intentions = sticky situations

[the_entertainer1]

I always have good intentions, but lately, have been ending up in confusing and unhelpful situations. Sorry this is long, but I'd really like some ideas/advice about this situation.

 

Most recently:

 

I've been dating this guy, Tom, since February. I posted a couple of times on here, about the fact that we hadn't kissed after 10 dates. Well, we had our first kiss last weekend, and saw each other on Friday and Sunday this weekend, so things have been progressing well. The kissing isn't fantastic, but neither of us have had much experience, and I'm told it gets better the more you do it! Lol. I'm not head over heels in love with him but he's nice, respectful, thoughtful and has similar interests to me. He's not the most exciting guy, but he's stable and we have fun together. Because he's inexperienced as well, I feel like this is a good learning opportunity. I can go at a pace that is comfortable for me and I don't feel pressured by expectations that guys with more experience might have.

 

Yesterday was the first time I introduced him to one of my friends. This friend is a guy named Matt. We've known each other since we were 16 (we're now 24). We often go for periods without seeing each other (due to the busyness of life) but things always feel just the same when we do catch up. He'd organised a wine tour for his birthday and invited me and I asked if I could bring Tom.

 

It was all fine, and everyone got on well. However, I used to have a bit of a crush on Matt. I didn't think I felt that way about him anymore, but after yesterday I'm feeling confused. I was talking to another friend of mine about the situation, who suggested that Matt liked (or likes) me, but has always felt intimidated by me, which is why nothing ever happened between us. I always ignored that thought because I didn't think he'd be interested in me. My recent dating experiences have given me more confidence though, and I'm starting to see that he perhaps did like me.

 

He's had a few long-term girlfriends since we've known each other, and is currently in a relationship. I met his girlfriend for the first time yesterday, and couldn't help but think she's all wrong for him. I'm happy with the guy I'm seeing and where our relationship is heading, so I don't think it's jealousy. This girl just didn't seem to treat Matt with much respect. He told me she criticises his religious beliefs and gets extremely jealous of him talking to other girls, even to the point where she checks his phone. He says his family (especially his mum) hates the fact that she's not Catholic, and the fact that they're living together. On the way home from the wine tour, we even had to stop the bus so she could get up and throw up because she drank too much. I'm not sure why he shared his dissatisfaction in his relationship with me, especially when she was around. Any ideas?

 

Furthermore, he asked me about Tom, how long we've been seeing each other and how things were going. I thought it was nice he took an interest. I'm not sure if, retrospectively, I'm reading more into it than is there, but perhaps it was unusual that he was so interested in my relationship ...

 

A few other things have happened in the past, which made me think he might have been interested in me:

- We've had dinner together on Valentine's Day, two years in a row (without it being 'romantic')

- We nearly kissed on my 18th birthday, but were interrupted I'm not sure if he remembers, but I do! Lol. We've never discussed it since.

- I'm a teacher - he accompanied me to my school's Christmas Carols and church service, even though we were meant to be going out for dinner instead.

- We've held hands a couple of times, for some stupid, made-up reason.

 

 

Anyway, the point of all this, is that I'm quite confused about the whole thing.

- why was he telling me about my relationship troubles, and so interested in how my relationship was?

- is his previous behaviour indicative of the fact that he previously did like me?

- If I want to continue our friendship (as just friends, I'm not looking to get together with him), how can I do so without his girlfriend being jealous?

[Roadkill007]

If you're exclusive with Tom, I think it's borderline criminal negligence of your relationship if you actively keep in contact with Matt. What you have isn't quite friendship and blurs the line between platonic and romantic. Regardless of your conscious intent, not only do you still seem to harbor some feelings for him, but you're actively sending your romance feelers to see if he feels/felt the same way.

[Sunshine87]

Oh please, don't make the mistake that many women make. Throw away the good guy.

 

Look, I think it's a good thing that you are NOT head over heels in love with Tom. That is the best situation to be in because you will be able to make decisions with your thinking cap on and you can yourself. Most of the women who are head over heels ( if unrequited) go through A LOT of pain and anguish. Just go through some of the threads in this section. What you have going with Tom is perfect. He is kind, respectful amd STABLE. Plus, you DO like him. So it's not as if you don't feel attraction for him. You DO. But you are not crazy in love....which is good because you have time to develop those feelings and allow the relationship blossom into a long lasting one. Pls don't throw him away because it is likely you will regret it.

 

Matt has a girlfriend! You aren't even sure he likes you.....and even if he does sort of fancy you, you are not guaranteed that he will dump his girlfriend for you and get into a serious relationship with you. Why would you even want to go there?

 

I know Matt gives you thrills and makes your heart thump. But pls don't make that mistake. Tom is providing everything you need as a woman. Don't throw that away or mess it up for someone you are so unsure about.

 

Sometimes the grass might look greener on the other side, but what you have to do, is water your OWN field/grass. What you currently have, is what many of the female and male posters on here desire so badly.

 

I really don't know what less to say. But the prospect of getting with Matt doesn't look good.....at all. STAY AWAY from him. Maybe Matt finds you more desirable because you are seeing someone. However, guys like these tend to pull away when the girls becomes single. That sometimes explains why a guy would persuade a girl to dump her boyfriend with the promise that he will end his relationship with his girlfriend......only to renege on that promise after the girl dumps her boyfriend. He comes up with excuses like "give it some time" etc. But he ends up sticking with the girlfriend.

 

Don't go there! Nuture what you have going with Tom. Stability, love, respect and kindness will serve you better. That is the truth.

 

Good luck.

[the_entertainer1]

If you're exclusive with Tom, I think it's borderline criminal negligence of your relationship if you actively keep in contact with Matt. What you have isn't quite friendship and blurs the line between platonic and romantic. Regardless of your conscious intent, not only do you still seem to harbor some feelings for him, but you're actively sending your romance feelers to see if he feels/felt the same way.

 

Thanks for your response. Tom and I haven't really talked about exclusivity yet, or even had a conversation to "define the relationship" - do people even do the latter outside of high school?

 

I'm not trying to treat Tom poorly at all, and I'd be satisfied to remain 'just friends' with Matt. Honestly, I think I'd be better suited to Matt than his current girlfriend. But I don't think I necessarily want to be his girlfriend. I do want to know how to navigate the situation though, even if it is just to remain friends without his girlfriend getting jealous. This weekend just left me feeling confused.

[Sunshine87]

You think yould be better suited to Matt than his girlfriend.....? That is what YOU think. How about what HE thinks?

 

This is often the genesis of disaster. The girl begins to project HER desires and thoughts on the guy. What makes you think that Tom thinks you are suited? He currently lives with his girlfriend and his mum doesn't like her. Yet he decides to stick with her. That indicates that he cares for her a whole lot.

 

Plus people ALWAYS complain about their significant others. Ask married men lol. They complain and grumble about their wives inorder to justify having a mistress. Surprise surprise, many a times they stick with their wives and shatter the hearts of the hopeful mistress who waited years and years for the marriage to end.

 

Obviously you can't compare a marriage to a relationship. I'm not trying to do that. The are incomparable. However I'm just letting you know that many may men and women complain about their S/O's. Heck I complained bout my ex A Lot. But I wasn't going to leave him. Don't be deceived by the complaints.

 

Stop looking at what you THINK....because it doesn't matter. What HE thinks matters and right now, HE has chosen to stick it through with his girl. HIS actions show that he wants her.

[Sunshine87]

I really don't want you to make a mistake.

 

You are currently tempted. But make then right choice.

 

Besides, Tom is unavailable right now!!

[the_entertainer1]

Stop looking at what you THINK....because it doesn't matter. What HE thinks matters and right now, HE has chosen to stick it through with his girl. HIS actions show that he wants her.

 

Ok, thanks for your honesty.

[SoulJazzBlues]

Thanks for your response. Tom and I haven't really talked about exclusivity yet, or even had a conversation to "define the relationship" - do people even do the latter outside of high school?

 

I'm not trying to treat Tom poorly at all, and I'd be satisfied to remain 'just friends' with Matt. Honestly, I think I'd be better suited to Matt than his current girlfriend. But I don't think I necessarily want to be his girlfriend. i do want to know how to navigate the situation though, even if it is just to remain friends without his girlfriend getting jealous. This weekend just left me feeling confused.

 

I'm sor but that is just horrible. This man has a gf and you want us to advise you on how you can discreetly flirt/make a pass at him without his gf finding out?

 

This Matt guy is not that interested in you. He is probably bored and likes the attention you give him.

 

I think you should dump Tom though as he deserves someone who is madly in love or Atleast willing to give it a chance rather than going goo goo eyes at another man

[the_entertainer1]

I'm sor but that is just horrible. This man has a gf and you want us to advise you on how you can discreetly flirt/make a pass at him without his gf finding out?

 

This Matt guy is not that interested in you. He is probably bored and likes the attention you give him.

 

I think you should dump Tom though as he deserves someone who is madly in love or Atleast willing to give it a chance rather than going goo goo eyes at another man

 

Hey, thanks for the response, but I think you're being a little harsh.

 

I'm not trying to find out how to discreetly flirt or make a pass at Matt. I just want us to be able to be friends with him, without his gf being all jealous and possessive. I'm not going to make a move on him. I barely give him any attention.

 

As for your suggestion to dump Tom - I don't think it's unreasonable that I'm not madly in love with him after 12 dates. I am willing to give it a chance (hence waiting for 10 dates for our first kiss!). The feelings that I mentioned, for Matt, were quite subtle but I was just wondering how to deal with them.

[Sunshine87]

Fair enough. It's okay that you sought help. Sometimes, we can't control the way we feel. I understand. So well done for airing your feelings and confusion.

 

It's natural to be tempted especially when you are in a stable relationship. Ironic because most people should be happy and content when the find someone who gives his or her all. Some people get bored.....they want some excitement or a challenge. What they fail to realise is that you can't have it all. If you choose the excitement, you risk ( and this is often the end result) getting really really hurt. Let's imagine you dump Tom and go for Matt. He doesn't treat you the way Tom treated you. He doesn't care foe you the way Tom cared for you. He keeps talking to his ex- gf. You want more attention from him but he doesn't provide it. He blows hot and cold and leaves to wondering and analysing. You become drained. You begin to ask questions on LS. Eventually Tom leaves.....or he checks out of the relationship and literally forces you to walk away. You are so hurt and crushed.

 

OR you nuture what you have with Tom. You "miss" out on the caorusel you would have subjected yourself to had you gone off with Matt. But you have peace of mind. You are happy. You have love and care and respect. You have someone who is reliable.

 

You can't have them BOTH....( assuming Matt was single).

 

If you did not have feelings for Tom, I would've advised you to end things with him. I would never advise a woman to stay with someone she has no feelings for. But you admit that you have feelings for him right? You're attracted to him right? But this recent encounter with Matt has made you restless. You are getting butterflies and all.

 

I guess you are still young and this is why you might not appreciate a stable relationship and the impact It has on your emotional and physical well being. Maybe you need a few heartbreaks to really appreciate a stable man.

 

The truth is: I don't understand why you want to be friends with Matt when in reality, you have hidden feelings for him. You are pretty much trying to start something here.

 

If you are unwilling to stay away from Matt in order to nuture your relationship ( because these thoughts you have about Matt ARE interfering with the development of your relationship with Tom), then you should finish things with Tom because it is unfair to him.

 

I now understand why some guys treat women like jerks in order to attract them. It seems that some women get bored with nice, stable men. I understand that if you are NOT physically attracted to a guy, then nothing he does will be sufficient. But if you ARE physically attracted to him....if you DO like him, what else do you want?

 

It seems like you are bent on purusing a "friendship" with Matt. This saddens me because it is obvious that you want him so bad......you would be willing to feign a friendship just to have him in your life.

 

On second thoughts, maybe you should let Tom go....if you are still insistent on getting close to Matt

[the_entertainer1]

Fair enough. It's okay that you sought help. Sometimes, we can't control the way we feel. I understand. So well done for airing your feelings and confusion.

 

It's natural to be tempted especially when you are in a stable relationship. Ironic because most people should be happy and content when the find someone who gives his or her all. Some people get bored.....they want some excitement or a challenge. What they fail to realise is that you can't have it all. If you choose the excitement, you risk ( and this is often the end result) getting really really hurt. Let's imagine you dump Tom and go for Matt. He doesn't treat you the way Tom treated you. He doesn't care foe you the way Tom cared for you. He keeps talking to his ex- gf. You want more attention from him but he doesn't provide it. He blows hot and cold and leaves to wondering and analysing. You become drained. You begin to ask questions on LS. Eventually Tom leaves.....or he checks out of the relationship and literally forces you to walk away. You are so hurt and crushed.

 

OR you nuture what you have with Tom. You "miss" out on the caorusel you would have subjected yourself to had you gone off with Matt. But you have peace of mind. You are happy. You have love and care and respect. You have someone who is reliable.

 

You can't have them BOTH....( assuming Matt was single).

 

If you did not have feelings for Tom, I would've advised you to end things with him. I would never advise a woman to stay with someone she has no feelings for. But you admit that you have feelings for him right? You're attracted to him right? But this recent encounter with Matt has made you restless. You are getting butterflies and all.

 

I guess you are still young and this is why you might not appreciate a stable relationship and the impact It has on your emotional and physical well being. Maybe you need a few heartbreaks to really appreciate a stable man.

 

The truth is: I don't understand why you want to be friends with Matt when in reality, you have hidden feelings for him. You are pretty much trying to start something here.

 

If you are unwilling to stay away from Matt in order to nuture your relationship ( because these thoughts you have about Matt ARE interfering with the development of your relationship with Tom), then you should finish things with Tom because it is unfair to him.

 

I now understand why some guys treat women like jerks in order to attract them. It seems that some women get bored with nice, stable men. I understand that if you are NOT physically attracted to a guy, then nothing he does will be sufficient. But if you ARE physically attracted to him....if you DO like him, what else do you want?

 

It seems like you are bent on purusing a "friendship" with Matt. This saddens me because it is obvious that you want him so bad......you would be willing to feign a friendship just to have him in your life.

 

On second thoughts, maybe you should let Tom go....if you are still insistent on getting close to Matt

 

What you write is really thought provoking. You're right in that I am only quite young. This relationship with Tom, even though I'm not sure if it is an "official" relationship, is my first relationship. I guess I started late in life!

 

Until I saw Matt this weekend, I really thought my feelings for him had passed. I gave up on him when I found out he got this new girlfriend (I was still single then, and not even actively trying to pursue him then - not that I'm trying to actively pursue him romantically now, either).

 

I think the more time I spend with Tom, the stronger our relationship will become. He's a much quieter kind of guy, and I suppose that because he lacks some excitement and charisma. I think the best way to describe it is that he doesn't really give me butterflies in my stomach, in the way that other people in the past have (I'm not even talking about Matt, lol). But I like being with him and I want things to work out between us. I'm just learning how to be in a relationship, I suppose.

 

As for Matt - I think I can be friends with him without it affecting my relationship with Tom. As I said, I think the more time I spend with Tom, the better things will get. When it comes to Matt - I have lots of self-restraint. I'm a pretty black and white sort of person (funny, when you consider my confusion) but if I see something as "wrong", it's wrong. Im my book, unfaithfulness is wrong. Anyway, it would be too hard just to end our friendship. It's been nearly 10 years - one of those things you can't throw away. I am just a bit wary because I want to navigate this platonic friendship without his girlfriend getting psycho and jealous. I honestly have no intention of breaking them up or causing him to be unfaithful to her, but Matt effectively 'warned' me about her. So how do I do that?

[FrustratedGuy91]

Ah this sounds like the story of my life. You treat a woman with respect, actually care about her, you're kind, thoughtful and what do you get? She falls for some other guy who doesn't even care for her.

 

You said you are "confused" about Matt, then you can't be sure you want to be just friends. More likely you want to remain friends until his GF makes a mistake and you get a chance, then off goes poor Tom...

 

My name's Tom, by the way.

[Roadkill007]

I am just a bit wary because I want to navigate this platonic friendship without his girlfriend getting psycho and jealous. I honestly have no intention of breaking them up or causing him to be unfaithful to her, but Matt effectively 'warned' me about her. So how do I do that?

 

You can't stop super jealous gfs from being super jealous around you. That's like thinking you can change a super violent guy just because you saw a caring side to him. The only thing, or person really, you can change is yourself. Same goes with everyone else.

 

I wonder if you're thinking that since she's super jealous, if you buddy buddy with Matt, there will be friction in their relationship and it may end up failing, and you don't want to be the cause of that. Honestly though, if it's going to happen, it's going to happen. She's super jealous so she'll always find some opportunity to get super jealous and it'll probably put a strain on their relationship. And just as it's their problem to deal with, not yours, it's also their problem to solve. So.... if you buddy buddy with Matt and they end up breaking up because of the friction it caused, it's not really your fault. You are just a situation that they couldn't deal with as a couple.

 

That said, if you do start falling for Matt again, and it's not getting better with Tom (as in you still don't really have feelings for him), be fair and do what's right: make a choice. I'm writing this as I know you'll do what you want to do, but please don't turn it into an extended empty relationship you fall out of which crushes the guy because he thought you both were getting somewhere.

[the_entertainer1]

Ah this sounds like the story of my life. You treat a woman with respect, actually care about her, you're kind, thoughtful and what do you get? She falls for some other guy who doesn't even care for her.

 

You said you are "confused" about Matt, then you can't be sure you want to be just friends. More likely you want to remain friends until his GF makes a mistake and you get a chance, then off goes poor Tom...

 

My name's Tom, by the way.

 

I understand what you're saying. The point you're making about 'good guys' is absolutely correct, and I wish it weren't so. Just so you know, though, I don't intend to pursue or 'run off' with Matt, and have no intention of hurting Tom. I guess the thing about Tom is that he's not particularly exciting. I know he's just learning how to be in a relationship too, and though he's doing all the 'right' things, I don't feel particularly 'wanted'. Perhaps I just saw what Matt had with his girlfriend and wanted that type of affection, rather than Matt to provide it!

[FrustratedGuy91]

I understand what you're saying. The point you're making about 'good guys' is absolutely correct, and I wish it weren't so. Just so you know, though, I don't intend to pursue or 'run off' with Matt, and have no intention of hurting Tom. I guess the thing about Tom is that he's not particularly exciting. I know he's just learning how to be in a relationship too, and though he's doing all the 'right' things, I don't feel particularly 'wanted'. Perhaps I just saw what Matt had with his girlfriend and wanted that type of affection, rather than Matt to provide it!

 

Maybe you could tell this to Tom? (Not the Matt part) But you know, talk to him, if he's new on dating I don't think he will take it the wrong way. (Assuming you're subtle about it).

 

Ultimately, if by "exciting" you mean there is no spark. Then perhaps it's time to move on, before anyone gets really hurt.