LostMM Posted June 8, 2013 Posted June 8, 2013 I've been a lurker on this forum for a little while and I've read about stories often times from the point of view of the OW who wants a happy ending with her MM, but rarely have I seen much from the MM point of view on here. As such, I'm writing my thread, for perhaps some input and help on my situation. You seem to be an understanding an non-judgmental group and would value any advice/help you can offer. As for my story, I am the MM. I'm not a serial adulterer, this is the only affair I have been in, but it has been the most confusing experience of my life. It all started when I started doubting my marriage, there are two significant issues I have with it that make me seriously want to leave. When I started the affair, I was really just looking for someone to get to know maybe have fun with (one of the marital problems at home is the very low sex, and this issue has been discussed openly several times). I make no excuses for my behavior but I felt, that might answer one potential question that I may be asked. Anyways, as we got to know each other, the OW and I, we started having feelings for each other, and of course we do eventually want the happy ending. Where I struggle with following through on ddays (missed a few planned already) is the guilt I feel combined with the thought in my mind that the grass is always greener on the other-side. The other thought though, is that the two significant issues in my marriage have never been resolved and I don't have faith that they will be resolved on equal terms, I feel more or less that I will have to shoulder that entire burden. For reference, the two major issues are money and sex. On the money side, I shoulder all of the burden of the living expenses. We both work, though my pay is much better than hers its more or less she does what she wants with her money, I pay all expenses and a few times she has gotten into debt with which, because I was the financially responsible one, it fell on me to correct those issues. On the sex front, its always infrequent, rushed, never enjoyed experiences. I've been proactive in trying to discuss the issue, asking what she, is there something I'm not bringing to the relationship that is holding you back etc.. The response I get there is that she knows its a problem and will work on it, kind of kicking the can down the road. I'm not so much trying to make excuses but perhaps provide a background for things, and these issues have been constant in the marriage (though the money came up later as that issue was hidden until the debt collections calls, and the car repo... thankfully I did not co-sign that one). One final reference there are no kids, and frankly I don't want to add to the problem (which would also answer the question does stress of a family have to do with things). As for the OW, she is very sexual (though I know that can change), on the money side, she is very financially responsible, we have more things and activities in common, and we love each other very much. The problem I have is always with the guilt, or over thinking, maybe I need to do this one more thing to save things at home. Its always a back and forth in my mind, an internal battle. I guess I'm just looking to get some of this off my chest, help me think of things, and hopefully get some perspective from others on here as well as to perhaps provide some perspective from the MM side of things. I really don't want to be that typical MM that leads on the OW. I know I'm not perfect and have made my own mess here, but any thoughts or input from others would be appreciated. I don't mind answering hard or pointed questions here, I just ask that I don't get outright flamed here.
Mount Posted June 8, 2013 Posted June 8, 2013 If put affair thing, MM or OW aside, for any relationship, money problem is a big killer. If it is in marriage it will kill marriage, and if the money issue exists in relationship with OW or OM, it will kill that too. The resentment arising from how to handle financial will be the number one killer. BTW, how does your OW look at the situation, and how long is the A so far?
Mount Posted June 8, 2013 Posted June 8, 2013 My impression is that the OP wants to give marriage another try? Yes? That is why I asked how his OW looks at the situation? Does she want to wait, or sustain to be OW? or Quit A soon? Why don't you get a divorce?
xxoo Posted June 8, 2013 Posted June 8, 2013 My impression is that the OP wants to give marriage another try? Yes? That is why I asked how his OW looks at the situation? Does she want to wait, or sustain to be OW? or Quit A soon? If he wants to give the marriage another try, he's made it exponentially more difficult to save by involving another woman. But my question is why does he want to save the marriage.
secretlady76 Posted June 8, 2013 Posted June 8, 2013 I'm not going to shoot you down in flames, there is no point and it won't help. I will agree with the above poster who said your weakness got you into the affair and your weakness will probably keep you in your marriage. I don't agree that you have to look within yourself to work out why you had an affair. It isn't just about you and your personality issues (if you have any), it's to do with internal and external factors that pushed you towards someone else. You have pinpointed the sex and the finances as an ongoing issue. These have to be dealt with. The way to deal with these things is not by having an affair. If you want to sort this out this is what you have to do. Firstly you need to stop the affair. You cannot deal with the situation at home whilst you are with OW (but do bear in mind that you will go through a period of withdrawal and grieving over your OW). Next, you have to be honest with your wife and admit that you have had a realtionshop with someone else, as difficult as it is to admit to this. You need to be transparent. You then have to go to MC/IC to help deal with the problems you have. One thing I do stress though is do not do anything drastic for a period of 12 months. What I mean is that after an affair there is a sudden urge to do some major things, such as have a baby, move house, go on fancy holidays etc. Do not do this. All this does is focus ones attention on something else and NOT the issues of the marriage. You need time to focus on you and your wife and make a decision as to what the two of you are going to do going forward. Your OW is going to be hurt, humiliated and rejected when you finish with her. Please treat her with respect and finish it in a respectable way, but be firm. Do not string her along or go LC (low contact) with her, just to keep your options open. You need her to vanish whilst you sort your problems out. If you want her, you need to go to her as a single person, not whilst you are still married. Do remember, you need to leave the marriage because it isn't working, not because you have met someone else. Just be grateful you do not have children. That makes the whole thing 10 x worse. Good luck and keep talking. 1
HonestNeurotic Posted June 8, 2013 Posted June 8, 2013 My advice would be for you to at least separate from your wife and live alone for awhile. Not to jump into the arms of someone else. Find yourself. What you really want in life, and in a life partner. Or even if you want a life partner. NOT saying that your OW is not maybe the right person for you. But you're obviously torn, and it seems like you're afraid. Like, you have to pick one or the other. That's not good for anyone. You need to KNOW for yourself. Of course, there is nothing that can tell the future to any of us. NOT being mean here - but I kinda see that you feel that you need to "have" one. Long periods of time in a relationship with one person can easily lead to complacency and stagnation, it takes two people to get there. If you are relying on another for your own personal happiness - well, every woman will eventually fail you. Perhaps your wife just isn't into you anymore? See, the only person you can change is yourself, and you may not want to change yourself. It's up to you. Love and sex are fun - but they don't make a marriage. IMHO ~ as always 1
Quiet Storm Posted June 8, 2013 Posted June 8, 2013 (edited) If you genuinely care about the ow, why are you dragging her into your drama? You know she is developing feelings for you. You know you are currently committed elsewhere. You admit you are confused and guilty. If you don't want to be the typical mm that leads an ow on...then don't be that guy. You do have self control, you know. We teach toddlers impulse control and how to contain their emotions. You can do it, too. The fact is, your wife is not meeting your needs right now. I am not saying that your needs are legitimate or that your wife doesn't have a valid reason to be emotionally and sexually disconnected from you. So instead of examining this.... Are your expectations of marriage realistic? Do you nurture your marriage? Does your wife have health issues affecting her desire? Does your wife have emotional issues that affect her desire? Is your wife overwhelmed? Do you know what your wife wants sexually? Do you turn her on? Do you share your feelings with her? Do you care what she feels? Instead of working to resolve this...you have found someone else to supplement your marriage, and to provide you with what you feel is missing. I believe that many wives underestimate the value of sex in their marriage. Many women assume that all men view sex as a physical release. What many women don't get is that menuse sex as a method of emotionally connecting to their wives. It is the most natural & instinctive way that husband's express their love. So when sex dwindles in a marriage, one of the most basic ways for a man to express his love gets blocked. This leaves him feeling very frustrated. Women are generally different. We instinctually express our love with caring actions or words. We want to talk about our feelings of love. We want to do special things for those we love. We help. We nurture. We talk & emotionally connect. We naturally have expectations about love based on the ways we personally express it. So a man will feel unloved and rejected when his wife isn't interested in sex with him. And a woman will feel unloved when he doesn't listen, help or nurture. You need to talk frankly to your wife about what I just posted above. Tell her that you love her and instinctually need to express that through sex. And ask her what things you can do for her that will allow her to feel loved by you. Your wife needs to feel loved, in order to desire you sexually. Every marriage has down times, and every marriage has incidents that create resentment. You resent her for her financial choices. I'm sure there are things she resents you for. You both need to have a very honest discussion and get it all out on the table, including this affair, so that you can move forward. Resentment grows in silence, and it is reduced with expression. Marriage counseling can help. Let your ow go. She is meeting needs for you right now, but it is selfish of you to use her for that. If you can't make your marriage work, take action to end the marriage. Leave ow alone until your marriage is legitimately over. End contact with her. She deserves a man that can be with her... You can't be that man if you are married. Your wife deserves a husband that respects her. You can't be that man if you have an ow. Marriage problems are reasons to get counseling, to take a vacation together, to talk or argue, to separate or to divorce. Marriage problems are not a reason to cheat. Cheating is selfish and cowardly. Edited June 8, 2013 by Quiet Storm 8
White Flower Posted June 8, 2013 Posted June 8, 2013 I've been a lurker on this forum for a little while and I've read about stories often times from the point of view of the OW who wants a happy ending with her MM, but rarely have I seen much from the MM point of view on here. As such, I'm writing my thread, for perhaps some input and help on my situation. You seem to be an understanding an non-judgmental group and would value any advice/help you can offer. As for my story, I am the MM. I'm not a serial adulterer, this is the only affair I have been in, but it has been the most confusing experience of my life. It all started when I started doubting my marriage, there are two significant issues I have with it that make me seriously want to leave. When I started the affair, I was really just looking for someone to get to know maybe have fun with (one of the marital problems at home is the very low sex, and this issue has been discussed openly several times). I make no excuses for my behavior but I felt, that might answer one potential question that I may be asked. Anyways, as we got to know each other, the OW and I, we started having feelings for each other, and of course we do eventually want the happy ending. Where I struggle with following through on ddays (missed a few planned already) is the guilt I feel combined with the thought in my mind that the grass is always greener on the other-side. The other thought though, is that the two significant issues in my marriage have never been resolved and I don't have faith that they will be resolved on equal terms, I feel more or less that I will have to shoulder that entire burden. For reference, the two major issues are money and sex. On the money side, I shoulder all of the burden of the living expenses. We both work, though my pay is much better than hers its more or less she does what she wants with her money, I pay all expenses and a few times she has gotten into debt with which, because I was the financially responsible one, it fell on me to correct those issues. On the sex front, its always infrequent, rushed, never enjoyed experiences. I've been proactive in trying to discuss the issue, asking what she, is there something I'm not bringing to the relationship that is holding you back etc.. The response I get there is that she knows its a problem and will work on it, kind of kicking the can down the road. I'm not so much trying to make excuses but perhaps provide a background for things, and these issues have been constant in the marriage (though the money came up later as that issue was hidden until the debt collections calls, and the car repo... thankfully I did not co-sign that one). One final reference there are no kids, and frankly I don't want to add to the problem (which would also answer the question does stress of a family have to do with things). As for the OW, she is very sexual (though I know that can change), on the money side, she is very financially responsible, we have more things and activities in common, and we love each other very much. The problem I have is always with the guilt, or over thinking, maybe I need to do this one more thing to save things at home. Its always a back and forth in my mind, an internal battle. I guess I'm just looking to get some of this off my chest, help me think of things, and hopefully get some perspective from others on here as well as to perhaps provide some perspective from the MM side of things. I really don't want to be that typical MM that leads on the OW. I know I'm not perfect and have made my own mess here, but any thoughts or input from others would be appreciated. I don't mind answering hard or pointed questions here, I just ask that I don't get outright flamed here. Welcome LostMM, I don't know if you're in disguise and took your story from the MM Operations Manual or you're really who you say you are, but if you're the latter I applaud you for posting here. But I disagree, if you have been lurking here then surely you know this atmosphere can be very judgmental! First off, I pat you on the back for approaching your wife with the sex and financial problems because the typical (not that you are typical) wandering husband (WH) is passive-aggressive and avoids answers at all costs, hence the PA (passionate affair). Second, most men, including WH, are split over duty and love. This is why more women file for D than men because women do not feel duty bound unless they are in love. I believe your identity is so wrapped up in the duty bound guy that you value love less than duty. When you can attach the correct value to love and duty then it will be easy for you to make your choice. Most BW don't want a man to stay out of duty, so it's easier for us to believe our Hs love us when they stay, because that is the reason we would stay! So if you're going to stay with your W, please be honest with her and tell her that you are staying out of guilt and duty and that you are indeed very much in love with the OW. Be honest and fair to all parties. Also, IC would really help you right now. Best of luck, and try to ignore the judges and morals police. 3
spiderowl Posted June 9, 2013 Posted June 9, 2013 When the sex part of the relationship became a problem, you said it was openly discussed. Did you say you were thinking of having an extramarital affair because of the lack of sex? I guess not. That would have been open discussion. I suppose my reading of your messages suggests to me that you want out of the marriage but feel guilty. You also don't know what you are letting yourself in for with the new woman, except you know the sex is good and that she's financially responsible. Being financially self-sufficient (I presume?) also makes her more of a risk as she can easily walk if she finds she's not happy with you. So there is guilt about wanting out and fear that the new relationship might not last. I can see it must be an awful dilemma. I suspect most of the MM who have affairs find themselves at just such a point. Is it better the 'devil you know'? Time and again, I am baffled as to why MM don't get divorced when they are unhappy with their marriage, why they dabble and play on the side instead and then end up in a mess. I can only assume that at first it is short-term thinking. I feel sorry for both women involved. 2
findingnemo Posted June 9, 2013 Posted June 9, 2013 Hi LostMM, The issues you talk about in your M are pretty big ones. Sex and money. The sex won't get better. I can almost guarantee that. The money problem sounds really bad. Your W spends, gets into debt, keeps it a secret until collectors are banging at your door. Is that right? Well, that could get better eventually if she is willing to work on it. The main problem here is that she lies to cover up her spending. Married people should be open about money matters. It is a basic rule. Is any of the above a reason to have an A? No. Those problems can make someone vulnerable to becoming attracted to someone else, but ultimately the choice to cheat was yours. Form the OW's perspective, please don't allow her to love you while you can't/won't love her back exclusively. As much as one can say she is actively choosing to be an OW, you are actively putting her in that position. Leave your W. Tell her you are not happy any more and you want a divorce. Don't make the OW your therapist. Find another person to confide in while you sort yourself out. Go to the OW when you are willing and able to love her fully.
thecharade Posted June 9, 2013 Posted June 9, 2013 LostMM, White Flower is 100% correct. One poster asked why you do not simply divorce--you have many reasons. But, you didn't get a D because you feel a "duty" to your W and marriage, and now that you have complicated your situation further by falling for someone else, you find you STILL feel that Duty. In a nut shell, this explains why men do not find it 'easy' (possible?) to D. My story (I am female) is very similar to yours, but flash forward as I am farther down the road. I could not clearly see what was wrong in my life; I tried everything (therapy, books, hobbies, talking to my H) and then I had an A with an old bf (first love, spent our entire youth together). The A died because I was not with him for an A. (Ick) I had always loved him, but his Duty would not allow him to act. SO! Back to therapy I went. My new therapist happened to be a former BW, and I was very hesitant to work with her, but I stayed on. She actually did not find me to be 'broken' and did not even blame me for the A once she realized how hard I had been working on myself and my M. She believes my M may not be salvageable because my H is not able to be who I need. So then why did I have the A? I didn't want to confront that truth. You have made a similar mistake. You hoped you could solve the pain in your M with an affair, but instead of having one relationship problem, you now have two. Very tough stuff. I had to let the A go (my MM did not want that) before I could see my M clearly. Because of the way men think and feel (differently than women, more able to compartmentalize) you must deal with the Duty you obviously feel to your M regardless of your valid reasons for wanting a D. We're not making you feel the duty--you just feel it!!! The A has not hanged this fact. I'm sorry for your OW because she will be in a lot of pain over this Duty you feel to a woman you have been moving away from. As women, it is very confusing. (And divorcing us without giving us a chance to work on things is equally painful!! We women deserve fair and honest relationships! Men, too.) Good luck. The problem isn't your OW. The problem is that you never dealt with the first relationship and instead started a second. You are in the middle of hurting two women even though you were just trying to prevent hurting one. Maybe that was never possible? 1
canuckprincess Posted June 10, 2013 Posted June 10, 2013 Follow your heart, life is to short to stay out of guilt and responsibility. 1
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