imtooconfused Posted June 9, 2013 Posted June 9, 2013 Edit: she treats the kids much better than me. But I'm starting to see signs of the same behavior towards our 11 year old daughter which is alarming. I don't know if the 11 year old is your oldest, but as the kids grow older, she will use the same technique on them. My teenagers were indeed affected. I don't know that I was aware enough of what was going on to intervene and help them at that time. Now that the kids have grown older, left the house and built their own life, they are much better.
Author NHStrider Posted June 9, 2013 Author Posted June 9, 2013 Friend, why do you care about her Thanks for your caring words... 95% of the time I don't care. She's left 11 months ago and the divorce was final about 6 months ago. For the most part, I've learned to separate logic from emotion but the emotions still win out from time to time. The logical side of me says it doesn't matter I have the love of my girls and grand kids and they're part of my life every day. That same logic tells me I've lost nothing in losing her. But when the emotions creep in I'm left wondering what was real and what was not. The gaslighting, the infidelity, the realization that she lied about my daughter's paternity for 26 years leaves me wondering what was true about our relationship and what was not. Perhaps she chose me to be my daughter's father not her husband. I gave her stability and protection but maybe she never really loved me. When I'm down I don't miss her but I do mourn the loss of the 26 years of love and caring that was wasted on her. What's let of my ego want's her to miss me and what we had. In time I'm sure (hope) that will go away too. Til then, I'm left with the gifts that I wouldn't have without her. Two beautiful daughters and two wonderful grandsons. 1
Author NHStrider Posted June 9, 2013 Author Posted June 9, 2013 she will use the same technique on them. I agree My oldest daughter was the most effected by my EW's gaslighting. For years she had memories of her biological father and when she would ask my EW she would tell her memories were false. She also told my daughter to never mention it to me because I would probably abandon her. My daughter was 26 before she dared to bring it up with me.
Steen719 Posted June 10, 2013 Posted June 10, 2013 Thanks for your caring words... 95% of the time I don't care. She's left 11 months ago and the divorce was final about 6 months ago. For the most part, I've learned to separate logic from emotion but the emotions still win out from time to time. The logical side of me says it doesn't matter I have the love of my girls and grand kids and they're part of my life every day. That same logic tells me I've lost nothing in losing her. But when the emotions creep in I'm left wondering what was real and what was not. The gaslighting, the infidelity, the realization that she lied about my daughter's paternity for 26 years leaves me wondering what was true about our relationship and what was not. Perhaps she chose me to be my daughter's father not her husband. I gave her stability and protection but maybe she never really loved me. When I'm down I don't miss her but I do mourn the loss of the 26 years of love and caring that was wasted on her. What's let of my ego want's her to miss me and what we had. In time I'm sure (hope) that will go away too. Til then, I'm left with the gifts that I wouldn't have without her. Two beautiful daughters and two wonderful grandsons. A lot of it for me was the loss of a future I thought I had. All my plans were gone and new ones have to be made. I'm still in that process. The fact that she lied to you for 26 years is nothing short of cruel and I'm sorry for your pain. 4
worldgonewrong Posted June 11, 2013 Posted June 11, 2013 The most irksome example would be to say or do something painfully unkind and insulting and then become peevish because I took it "personally" or scold me for being excessively sensitive for being hurt by her unkindness. ^^^ Oh God, THIS. I can so relate. It was the psychological equivalent of my ex cutting my throat and then complaining that I'd gotten her beautiful knife all dirty.
imtooconfused Posted June 11, 2013 Posted June 11, 2013 The most irksome example would be to say or do something painfully unkind and insulting and then become peevish because I took it "personally" or sclold me for being excessively sensitive for being hurt by her unkindness. ^^^ Oh God, THIS. I can so relate. It was the psychological equivalent of my ex cutting my throat and then complaining that I'd gotten her beautiful knife all dirty. Yes... They don't even recognize that they are being negative in the slightest. Yet even the slightest bit of negativity on your part cannot be tolerated. 1
pest947 Posted June 13, 2013 Posted June 13, 2013 Yes... They don't even recognize that they are being negative in the slightest. Yet even the slightest bit of negativity on your part cannot be tolerated. Oh my God, yes....This sums up what I experienced in a nutshell perfectly. 1
imtooconfused Posted June 13, 2013 Posted June 13, 2013 Oh my God, yes....This sums up what I experienced in a nutshell perfectly. It's to the point now that even positive remarks are considered backhanded compliments and therefore negative. There is just no winning.
robfos Posted June 13, 2013 Posted June 13, 2013 Why are people so ****ING crazy??? My ex cheated on ME and I am the bad person. It's amazing how people justify their actions... 1
worldgonewrong Posted June 13, 2013 Posted June 13, 2013 It's to the point now that even positive remarks are considered backhanded compliments and therefore negative. There is just no winning. You know how you win? You get OUT of the marriage with some ego & self-respect intact. 2
Author NHStrider Posted June 13, 2013 Author Posted June 13, 2013 You know how you win? You get OUT of the marriage with some ego & self-respect intact. Absolutely... The trick is identifying it while you still have some ego and self-respect left. Mine took a lot of hits before I recognized the pattern. 1
zoobadger Posted July 10, 2013 Posted July 10, 2013 Why are people so ****ING crazy??? My ex cheated on ME and I am the bad person. It's amazing how people justify their actions... Yep. He/she would not have to resort to infidelity if you were a suitable spouse. Never mind the fact that a person of true character would end the marriage first, THEN have a relationship....
Adee Posted July 11, 2013 Posted July 11, 2013 **** ive been enlightened, regarding gaslight , wow, that was happening with me also
imtooconfused Posted July 11, 2013 Posted July 11, 2013 **** ive been enlightened, regarding gaslight , wow, that was happening with me also It's just so difficult to recognize, and almost as hard to combat.
worldgonewrong Posted July 12, 2013 Posted July 12, 2013 It's just so difficult to recognize, and almost as hard to combat. You know why it's difficult to recognize? Because you still trust that person. That trust hasn't quite died. And the other person knows that they're manipulating your trust. It's really sick stuff.
revitup Posted July 13, 2013 Posted July 13, 2013 Yes sir, You my friend have nailed this "phenomenon".I commend you for being free.I too am about to be free.I thought I must be CRAZY too,but no more. I also needed to know "what the heck" happened to me over the years?Why did I change into a doormat of sorts? I have read every article I could about this mess lately.I went from studying BiPolar,BPD to NBPD to drug abuse to learning about being just plain crazy.I questioned my own judgement and sanity. What I see , after time apart (11 months NC) is that I was mentally and emotionally abused by a woman I loved with all my heart.Reading about abusive women (I love women and think they are a beautiful gift BTW) and the campaigns they wage emotionally against some of us,has opened my eyes.My focus has switched to reversing the 18 years of emotionally abusive scars I have allowed to happen to me. It doesn't matter which label we put on it,it's mental and emotional abuse from a woman,against a man.Men just don't like to say it.Men have to be the strong ones,and society laughs about a man who claims "abuse" from a woman.I was embarrassed to tell.I closed my eyes and hoped it would all go away. Some of us chose women who were fundamentally incapable of loving us in the real sense of the word "love".The "love" they saw and learned in childhood was different than our definition of love. Bottom line,I stayed too long.Thinking I could do anything and suffer anything for those I loved.My wife saw this as a "weakness" in me from the start.I think she planned it from the start,just like her mother and her mother's mother also did to the men in their lives.I saw this personally and thought "I would never be like ......."! I have realized the pain caused by my STBXWW was INTENTIONAL.It was a way of controlling my very thoughts.I lost my sense of self worth and self esteem through the "gas lighting",put downs and blame shifting. My STBXWW was obsessed with this strange fear of abandonment .I did nothing to cause this.On the other hand,she had a deep rooted jealousy and a need to be in control (of me,the finances and all aspects of our home) as well as appearing to be the "woman of the year" to everyone around her.She did this covertly.She wore two faces,a public one and a "special one in private" that was evil and controlling.This need to control was to make her feel that she did not need me at all.It gave her an ego boost,I think. I do know how you feel,unfortunately. Keep up the good work. REVITUP 4
Author NHStrider Posted July 14, 2013 Author Posted July 14, 2013 Yes sir, Some of us chose women who were fundamentally incapable of loving us in the real sense of the word "love".The "love" they saw and learned in childhood was different than our definition of love.1 I think this was very true of my Ex. When we were first separated we both sought individual counseling; she refused to go to couple's counseling. I tried to be open and discussed my sessions with her. She wouldn't discuss her's at all, which I respected. The single time she opened up about what she was working through she said "I feel like I just don't know how to love anyone". When I asked her to explain she shut down completely acting like she was upset she had said anything. She never opened the door again. It was clear that she had some unresolved issued from her childhood. She's an adult child of an alcoholic and her childhood was less than ideal. Less than a year later she moved 2000 miles away leaving me, two daughters and a grandson behind.
Oberfeldwebel Posted July 15, 2013 Posted July 15, 2013 I am sorry for your situation. I know you are being strong on the surface, but don't be afraid to grieve the loss of the relationship. This is something that we all must work through and will ease in time. The grieving process is no different that losing the person to death and it is the relationship that you thought that you had that you are grieving, not the self-centered person that wondered off to the hinterlands. Still be thankful to her for two lovely daughters that she brought in your life and now grandsons as well. She may be gone, but she left the best of herself behind. 1
revitup Posted July 17, 2013 Posted July 17, 2013 All you need to know is that anything that a BPD'r accuses you of doing is EXACTLY what they are doing. I was even told that I was controlling.....I worked 18 hours a day and never signed my own checks or made a withdrawal in the entire 18 yrs!STBXWW was in CONTROL of all affairs. You can't win no matter what you do,and if you do "win" it is short lived,empty,hollow and meaningless.I will assure you that you will be less of a man with them than without them. REVITUP 1
worldgonewrong Posted July 17, 2013 Posted July 17, 2013 I was even told that I was controlling.....I worked 18 hours a day and never signed my own checks or made a withdrawal in the entire 18 yrs!STBXWW was in CONTROL of all affairs. revitup- preach it, brother. My ex had the simple task of overseeing the finances (I made the $), that's all, and she still managed to eff that up and then blame me. When I was a mess in our brief couples counseling, I actually (stupidly) apologized to her for putting that burden on her. When in fact, I should have said, "You're an adult who can't balance a simple checkbook. Are you insane?" Instead, she impugned my own maturity (?!) and I took it on the chin. 1
aMguilts Posted July 17, 2013 Posted July 17, 2013 Why are people so ****ING crazy??? My ex cheated on ME and I am the bad person. It's amazing how people justify their actions... dude you speak for yourself i`m not crazy the world would be perfect if everyone saw it through my eyes aM
zoobadger Posted July 18, 2013 Posted July 18, 2013 A lot of it for me was the loss of a future I thought I had. All my plans were gone and new ones have to be made. I'm still in that process. The fact that she lied to you for 26 years is nothing short of cruel and I'm sorry for your pain. I feel the same way. We'd been through some really tough times with my six year old who is mildly autistic. Then, just when we can see light at the end of the tunnel, and it seems like maybe we can start to be a happy family she dumps me for somebody else. The reality, though, is that she's a difficult, extremely moody and often emotionally abusive person. The chances of a happy future with her were minimal. So I know in my head I'm going to be better off, or have a chance to be better off. But my heart is still not so sure.
Author NHStrider Posted July 21, 2013 Author Posted July 21, 2013 The term "gas-lighting" steems from the 1940's film "Gaslight" Gaslight (1944) - IMDb (A very good movie btw! And one I would highly recommend watching) Hey Gunny, Gaslight was on Turner Classic Movies tonight. You're right, it was a great movie. I can see why the "gas lighting" term became the name for this phenomenon.
Author NHStrider Posted July 21, 2013 Author Posted July 21, 2013 I am sorry for your situation. I know you are being strong on the surface, but don't be afraid to grieve the loss of the relationship. Thank you Oberfeldwebel for the wise words. I do allow myself to grieve. I can usually separate the “relationship I thought I had” from the “person” who abused and abandoned our trust and love. However, there are moments that I can be deep in thought about the good times and I’m suddenly pulled from the reverie by the reality that those good times may have not been real for her. Knowing that truth diminishes them for me too. For me the good times are good because of the shared experience. If she didn’t have the same investment the goodness fades. I’m resigned to the fact that I will never know what was real in our relationship and what was not. Were there days our years that she may have actually been happy and committed to the marriage? Only she knows the truth. She has lied about so much for so long that I wouldn’t be able trust anything she says now. I also find myself analyzing the things I could have done better in our marriage; not in a unhealthy or blaming myself way, but more to help me a better partner in a future relationship. There are areas where I could improve but the realization that I could have been a perfect partner in this relationship and it wouldn’t have mattered really sucks. I’ll try to take the lessons with me to the future. I hope that someday I’ll be willing to trust again. Unfortunately, I don’t see that on the near horizon. There’s still more healing to do.
vla1120 Posted July 21, 2013 Posted July 21, 2013 Thank you for introducing me to gas lighting! It has been happening to me for 32 years and I had no idea there was a name for it.
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