Bunnyrabbit Posted June 8, 2013 Posted June 8, 2013 I know I've been jumping all over this board and that it's probably hard to follow my posts. But I noticed more people see my posts and reply when I start a new thread. I have a dilemma and you don't need to know the background to be able to give me some advice. As painful as it is for me to file for divorce I know that's what I have to do. But the problem is that I have to leave the country for a couple of months for a health issue with a close relative. The timing couldn't be worse because we are at the same time facing divorce. He's working out of state and wants a break and is still paying for everything and wants to keep it this way right now. I'm the one suffering because I still have feelings and I cry every day and I'm in pain over this and want it to be over instead. I'm not interested in a break and don't want to give him that. My wish is to get this divorce done before I have to leave end of this month. But as emotional and hard as this is I still have to try and be smart about this. Would it be stupid to start the divorce procedures now BEFORE I leave? I have already asked an attorney about this but of course they will "yes, go ahead". He told me once I have filed he will take care of everything and it can later be done via computer and so on. I understand he wants to make his money and it can go on forever so I don't trust anything they say. I'm hoping we can agree as much as possible since I only want it to be fair. But knowing how hubby will try to keep his pension to himself I know he will make this ugly. So am I better off holding the divorce of until I come back and deal with this then? Let him think we have a break and have him continue to pay most of our bills like he always has. But what if he files while I'm gone? Or decides to take out money from our mutual account to hide because he's afraid I might file once I'm back? We have all our accounts shared and neither have taken anything out yet. We both can go and do that but I think we are both holding of waiting to see what the other person will do. My girlfriend suggested for me to take out half of that money while I can and start the divorce once I'm back. Then I at least have half of our money. But I know that will start a war when he finds out I've done that. I might as well start the divorce procedure then as well. This dilemma is making me sick to my stomach and I can't ask another attorney about this until next week. You are all so very helpful on this board and I have to turn to you to get through the weekend.....what would you do if you were me?
Author Bunnyrabbit Posted June 13, 2013 Author Posted June 13, 2013 My husband is working out of state and wants a "break" but if you've read all my other posts you know I'm ready to go thru with divorce instead. But I'm waiting to have a consultation with an attorney next week. I haven't told hubby about my upcoming appointment but I'm sure he knows and we are "dancing" around the subject and waiting each other out. We did agree on me trying to find a mediator but that was until I found out he went to the bank and taken lots of money out of the account. I then realized we are passed the mediator stage and I will need an attorney. I don't know what he thinks he gains by wanting to go on like this with him paying all the bills as usual right now. Maybe he thinks he's got more to loose in a divorce? I have lots of questions for the attorney but my question right now is: does it matter who files first at this point? Since he's living and working in another state. What happens if he would to file over where he is? We got married in CA and lived here until he moved a year ago and I'm still here.
Author Bunnyrabbit Posted June 14, 2013 Author Posted June 14, 2013 Neither of us have filed for divorce yet but we will. I am seeing an attorney next week to see what my options are. But since he's the main breadwinner and I don't make as much at all I could never afford an attorney. Is he then forced to pay for one? Or should I be smart about this and go to take out the money that the attorney want for a retainer while I can? All our accounts are joined and he's still paying our bills. But he took the first step to protect himself in taking out a big chunk of money of our joined account the other day. I know he did that so he doesn't have to split as much with me. He knows the law and how he has to give me half of our savings. But he made sure he took out a lot so there's less to split. I haven't touched it but now feel that I might take out money for an attorney. What do you think?
rolo99 Posted June 14, 2013 Posted June 14, 2013 If I was you, I'd take the rest of the money and start your own checking account and credit card, in your name only. You can't do that after you file, so do it now, then file. The 2 of you can sort it all out through lawyers later.
carhill Posted June 14, 2013 Posted June 14, 2013 Joint assets are that; joint. If you need money for a legal retainer, you can spend separate assets or joint assets. Either are appropriate. One aspect to consider, from a financial strategy standpoint, is whether or not the law firm you retain accepts credit cards. Mine does and that was part of my financial strategy. It also allowed my legal expenses to fund free airline tickets
rolo99 Posted June 14, 2013 Posted June 14, 2013 I also used credit cards to pay legal retainers and fund a plane ticket. But CC's need to be paid on and you may need money for other things. Take the money AND use your credit cards.
carhill Posted June 14, 2013 Posted June 14, 2013 My lawyer worked out a default/bankruptcy strategy and the credit card angle was a part of that. The goal was to preserve capital for caregiving expenses, which was the priority. The OP will likely have different priorities, so different strategies will hopefully be offered by their legal counsel. Tip: While a raid on joint assets is generally legal prior to filing, one must consider the ramifications of such decisions if the action becomes contested. The benefit can be weighed against the cost, dependent on projected legal costs of the various divorce pathways. A hotly contested divorce can get very expensive. Good luck.
marqueemoon4 Posted June 14, 2013 Posted June 14, 2013 (edited) So, he supports her and makes most of the money and pays the bills and people on here are suggesting she take a large sum of it out of the account to pay for an attorney to divorce him? And to directly answer the OPs question, NO I don't think she should take money from a joint account mainly compromised of money earned by her husband to turn around and divorce him with. Go earn something for yourself or get help from your family if you're dead set on divorce. Edited June 14, 2013 by a LoveShack.org Moderator Merge 1
carhill Posted June 14, 2013 Posted June 14, 2013 You could ask the lawyer these questions. OP, I'll co-sign this, as lawyers in most jurisdictions offer free initial consultations. I got about 90 minutes out of my first lawyer before I retained his firm and had a ton of questions answered and a number of legal and illegal strategies established/warned of prior to that meeting ending. By not seeing the divorce division straightaway, the retainer was lower too, initially, even though one of the divorce attorneys popped in to answer a couple of questions. All that said, if H files Monday and you don't see a lawyer until later in the week and your court 'freezes' (begins the accounting period on) assets upon filing, oops....
tbf Posted June 15, 2013 Posted June 15, 2013 Open up an individual bank account, then transfer enough to cover legal and living expenses so he can't prevent you from accessing money, by tying it up in red tape right away. This doesn't mean this money is to be spent any way you wish. It's still part of joint marital funds and eventually, he can still tie it up to some extent. It's just to prevent him holding the whip hand at the outset of your separation and subsequent divorce.
marqueemoon4 Posted June 15, 2013 Posted June 15, 2013 (edited) Ok, this needs to be asked.. Is OP stay at home mom and not working? If so MAYBE these suggestions of taking money out of the joint account could be valid. And suggesting she basically take funds from the joint account into her own account she opened on her own without her husband knowing? WOW. Yeah, you better consult a lawyer on that one. Edited June 15, 2013 by marqueemoon4
carhill Posted June 15, 2013 Posted June 15, 2013 It appears the OP has a number of threads running on this topic. I would suggest respondents review them. I found a post from the OP in a prior thread I had responded to which might have relevance to this thread: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/breaking-up-reconciliation-coping/separation-divorce/397322-does-matter-who-files-first#post4941676 It appears she has already interviewed at least one lawyer and has received some advice on this issue.
Author Bunnyrabbit Posted June 16, 2013 Author Posted June 16, 2013 I really appreciate all your input on this. Believe me, I'm not trying to get anything I don't deserve. I do work but I'm not making nearly of what he's making. Also, he's the one that is now working in another state and has opened up his own account there that I don't have access to. And like I said, he took out half or our money and made up a story about "him borrowing someone this money and he was going to get a percentage and put the money back within thirty days". Yeah....I'm not that stupid. The timing of this "deal" is very convenient and this is money that he already told me a while back he was not going to share with me. Anyway, I have bank statements that can show that this money excisted two months ago and suddenly is gone. I am not one to wanna play games and make this ugly in any way. This really could be so simple since we have no kids or assets. But knowing how he is and seeing what he's done so far makes me worried and I will have to start protecting MYSELF soon. I'm afraid that he will take advantage of my niceness and especially in all this. I still haven't touched the money or taken anything out. I will wait until I see an attorney this week to see what my options are. But I do think after that conversation with attorney (and if nothing has happened until then!) I will have to take out money so I can pay the attorney IF I will have to hire one IF hubby choose to go this route. Which I still hope he's smart and fair enough to realize that it will be a lot more expensive to have to get attorneys involved. But IF that happens I have to make sure I have the money for one and make sure I have that money before I even bring this up to him. I can see how he would suddenly then freeze all assets when he knows where we are heading. And how would I then pay the attorney if he closes the credit cards? I just need to be prepared for the worse I guess.
marqueemoon4 Posted June 16, 2013 Posted June 16, 2013 Protecting yourself is good.. and smart. If you have a decent lawyer just follow what they say and you should be good. Best of luck to you.
Balzac Posted June 16, 2013 Posted June 16, 2013 Practically, a low percentage of divorce actions are litigated. Most are agreed settlements. In general, high asset divorces that involve closely held busnesses and/or partnerships are complicated. You've not alluded to anything of that sort. If he's a highly compensated, straight up salary guy, it's straightforward. Just remember that your attorney needs to understand the money game.
Balzac Posted June 16, 2013 Posted June 16, 2013 (edited) PreNup Agreement 10 characters Edited June 19, 2013 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Balzac Posted June 16, 2013 Posted June 16, 2013 i know he did that so he doesn't have to split as much with me Your statement reveals that you do not have a working knowledge of how money surrounding and within the process of divorce works. Hire an experienced lawyer, listen to the lawyer. 1
Enema Posted June 17, 2013 Posted June 17, 2013 PreNup 10 characters A pre-nup only protects assets acquired before you got married. Anything you make during the marriage is 50/50 if you're lucky.
Balzac Posted June 17, 2013 Posted June 17, 2013 No argument. Unless she's talking high asset divorce the vast majority of couples experience a downward shift in financial budget. It's the case that a male "breadwinner" pays more but recovers faster.
Author Bunnyrabbit Posted June 17, 2013 Author Posted June 17, 2013 It's been so hard finding an attorney......The one I went to for a free consultation seemed so stern and I wasn't quite sure what I thought about him. I then found a female attorney online that got pretty good reviews and I made an appointment with her but she cancelled twice on me. I took that as a bad sign and didn't call back. I have asked around for recommendations and have been given a name of female attorney that was supposed to be the best. Meaning that she goes after the man's money and gets it. But that's not what I'm looking for. She was too busy anyway and I didn't want to wait. The attorney I found online that got a rating of 10 is someone I've been in email contact with and he seems human and personal. But when I asked another attorney about him I was told that "this attorney might be too weak/nice", don't go with him! Great......Why would he then get a 10 rating and people seem to be happy with him?! This is how it's been the last few weeks in my search for an attorney. They all have different point of views but I guess it all comes down to me making my own opinion and go from there. Like I said, I don't want this to turn ugly but I just want it to be fair, that's all.
Balzac Posted June 17, 2013 Posted June 17, 2013 How "nice" they are is meaningless. They either have a large firm w staffers to get the research done or they don't. They've litigated substantial cases or they go for agreed judgements. Custody is not your need.
Author Bunnyrabbit Posted June 19, 2013 Author Posted June 19, 2013 He went as far as to take out ALL the money from our joint accounts. I will never forgive myself for not being more pro active.I just couldn't get myself to be that kind of person but I was also very afraid of what he would do if I did that and it's not me. So my friends can scream at me all day that I was stupid for not looking out for myself and take it out while I had the chance. It is what it is....Like I said, I will forever beat myself over this but I can't do anything about it now. I can't afford an attorney and I have to figure out how to go about this now. So I guess "he won" because I'm sitting here now with nothing left. People keep telling me that "the law is the law and he will have to prove what he did with that money" and that I will get alimony and more. But the problem now is that I can't afford the law........... I guess it's really true that you learn the hard way!
marqueemoon4 Posted June 19, 2013 Posted June 19, 2013 Please tell me whatever you're earning now is going into an account only YOU have access to.. divorce is tough, if you need help don't be afraid to reach out to friends and family for help. That was pretty dirty of him to drain the joint accounts completely, I will say. I would suggest finding a lawyer that does free hour long consultations.. you can get some advice and that'll buy you time to raise some money.
carhill Posted June 19, 2013 Posted June 19, 2013 Not to worry. Attorneys deal with this all the time and can make the appropriate motions with the court. Find one who takes credit cards and use a joint one, if available, to retain him/her. Alternatively, seek assistance, as available, from your court's self-help system, in person, and get a filing in before any further damage occurs. Depending you your financial situation, you may qualify for filing fee/service fee waivers. He hasn't 'won' anything.
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