Why get married?

[Emilia]

first time poster (errr...responder) here.

 

these are my unbiased thoughts about marriage...

 

marriage seems to still exists simply because of the ties to one's family tradition (and the desire to not be the black sheep of the family who is seen as an 'illegitimate' couple who just lives together), or it could be the attachment to their belief in a religion and the views of marriage within that religion...or it simply could be because the couple just enjoys to entertain the idea of a hosting big party for their friends and family to celebrate a couple becoming "official" in the eyes of the law

 

however, as everyone knows...the divorce rate is so high because people can't see past the allure of quadruple tier wedding cakes, gift registries, tax benefits and don't actually see the true person they are marrying. so many false expectations remain unsaid and eat away at each person until it eventually undermines the whole marriage...and thus the disillusionment. OR...in a worse case, people marry out of obligation. eeeschh, no thanks.

 

 

regarding what the OP's female friend said about marriage making men hold their promises...LOL. that's a kneeslapper right there...this is how disillusioned people have become with what marriage actually symbolizes

 

marriage was once a direct route to expanding a families' kingdom and exuding pride in their lineage...and basically a way to stake claim on another partner before one or the other died of plague, battle wounds or an unexpected dose of hemlock

 

now it's generally a direct route for the disillusioned folks who dream and wish to stake claim to a 4 bedroom house with a white picket fence, oversized cars, two children and a dog/cat/gerbil...and sadly, at the end of the day, no one knows what it's like to actually love someone and be loved in return

 

it gives me the sads how humans are literally ruining everything that was once considered sacred...ie. nature, resources and yes, even marriage

 

 

all things aside, I think if I can ignore all the posts from whiny betas and the entitled clueless women, I will enjoy lurking around here ;p cheers, everyone.

 

Haha I signed in just to like this post. Agree fully.

[Anela]

I'm more cynical than I've ever been, but I still see some people marrying and making the commitment, because it means something to both of them.

 

They look so happy, actual tears of joy in the eyes of both (not, "oh my god, now I'll have that $500,000 mortgage to contend with, and have to work for her daddy" tears - actual, "I get to marry this person and be with them forever" happiness).

[violetsareviolet]

Very true. My wife and I married out of love and not to have a big wedding day or a nice house or anything. We got married in her parent's back yard and I already had a house.

 

that's great to hear! best of luck with the future my friend

 

I hope to one day find myself in a similar situation (elope would be ideal) but I'm happy with whatever happens

[Eggplant]

For women it's easy to see why they would want to get married, it's essentially a guarantee that she'll continue to have access to his assets no matter what happens. An obvious benefit.

 

There's also a tangible benefit to corporations, after all women spend the vast majority of household income. If, after a divorce, the female only had her own income to spend businesses would have to go without a significant amount of money she would've otherwise been able to spend ( his money ). Through state enforced wealth transfers from men to women corporations maintain access to his money through her, regardless of relationship status.

 

For men there is no such benefit.

 

Usually the transfer of money goes from the partner who earns more to the one who earns less. You are assuming that the woman earns less. If the woman earns more, then $ is transferred to the man.

 

In many marriages, the woman does earn less. If she was a stay-at-home mother, then she forwent her career to provide that benefit to the children of them BOTH. Hence the money the bread-winner earns is not HIS money at all -- it's their joint money as a team, in that particular arrangement. In the case of a stay-at-home dad and a woman bread-winner, HER money is THEIR money as well.

[Eggplant]

For men there is no such benefit.

Hence the woman knows how committed the man is based on his willingness or unwillingness to tie the knot. And she can decide to not procreate with a man who is not committed, and just go find some superstar ball-player and get knocked up.

[xxoo]

Because that's how we become a family

[Fromoutofnowhere]

Why get married? DON'T!!!! All joking aside, it's a bum deal. It's a contract, period. Marriage is not the next logical step in love and love alone cannot keep a marriage afloat. Finances and compromise keep a marriage working, like a business. You set yourself up for financial ruin and compomise your character and you're contractually obligated to suck it up. Take it from me....

[Eggplant]

If you want to procreate as a man you should be smart about it and either adopt or employ the services of a surrogate.

So you are so bitter about relationships with women that you think men who want offspring should elect to have a surrogate bear his child, and be a single father?

 

In my case, single-parenthood is a last desperate resort!

[Nyla]

Very true. My wife and I married out of love and not to have a big wedding day or a nice house or anything. We got married in her parent's back yard and I already had a house.

 

We married when we knew we would never own property, because we love the city and we cannot afford the ridiculous prices here. My husband and I eloped because we didn't want to wait until we could afford a more traditional wedding.

 

I would rather live in an apartment and be happy than live in a house and not know love. If we owned property, my husband and I couldn't afford the dates and romantic getaways that we enjoy.

 

I think large celebrations are more suited to anniversaries than weddings. It is much easier to get married than it is to stay married.

[Woggle]

So you are so bitter about relationships with women that you think men who want offspring should elect to have a surrogate bear his child, and be a single father?

 

In my case, single-parenthood is a last desperate resort!

 

Chances are he has seen some horror stories. You have no idea how much some of these horror stories scare the living hell out of men. Also many women choose single parenthood so does that mean they are bitter as well?

[Eggplant]

Chances are he has seen some horror stories. You have no idea how much some of these horror stories scare the living hell out of men.

There are horror stories for men and women alike. If somebody wants to protect himself/herself and not take risks, I respect that decision.

 

Also many women choose single parenthood so does that mean they are bitter as well?

I don't know. Sometimes, they haven't found somebody and their bio clock is running out.

[Eggplant]

Not bitter at all, I just think that if you want children you should do it in a way that doesn't involve a 50/50 chance of you seeing them once a week while paying as though they still lived with you.

My parents divorced, and they had split custody. Lived with my mom from Wed - Sun, and with my dad Sun - Wed. It can also be done week-to-week. I don't know why some divorced parents don't do 50/50.

[SuperGeek]

From my experience I have noted the following:

 

1) Women are extremely selective and 'picky' about what they want and expect

 

2) Women seem to be extremely hard to keep satisfied on a relationship level over the long term. Can't tell you how many women I've seen throw a marriage down the toilet after winning the guy's heart, getting married (sometimes even demanding it through ultimatums), and then getting bored or letting attraction to another man creep into the marriage. I've seen it so many times it's sick.

 

3) Women have the ability to jump into dating extremely easily with dating sites, social media, and the internet. Temptation to dump the current guy for a more interesting guy, whether during hard times, disagreement, etc is ever more present and EASY for them these days. Look at the data on facebook being blamed for divorce.

 

4) The social stigma of divorce and sepearation for women is gone. I think the stigma for divorce and men has increased because it is used as a way to discredit character and stability. Can't tell you how many women have told me they are attracted to their married coworkers, yet consider me a red flag for being single in my early 30s. Women constantly tell other women to 'dump that guy, divorce his ass, etc'. It's all about men persecuting women these days.

 

5) Divorce laws are slanted in favour of the female. Can't tell you how many guys I know who get two days a week or less with their kids and there is NOTHING they can do about it unless they cash out their life savings and play a game of poker in court.

 

6) According to US Census data, 70% of women are filing the divorces in that country. I will have to see what the data is for Australia.

 

7) So many men are financially ruined after divorce and other women will not even give them the TIME OF DAY once they find out about it. I know so many guys who are mentally ill over the fact that they have to pay alimony and child support to an ex. They are living in 1 bedroom flats and generally completely drained of cash while the ex is out with a new husband/boyfriend living lavishly. The punishment for divorce of men is HARSH and we pay for it with a 20 year (at least) sentence to the financial poor house and the inability to see even our own children for a few days a week.

 

 

8) Women have the ability to completely wreck the credibility and character of any man without proof. Example, my friend's ex-wife accused him of physical abuse during their marriage. It was totally false and he was eventually cleared of all charges and accusations, but he spent 2-3 years with a restraining order on his police record, was fired from his job, and paid heavy legal fees to get his name cleared. His ex-wife didn't have to submit much proof at all because it was just an accusation, but even just that can get a man added to a special 'watch list' which is almost the same as being convicted.

 

So yeah given the above reasons, I can see why men are pretty damn scared to get married. Most older guys I know who have been through brutal divorces don't get married again. Those that I know that don't get married do get girlfriends and co-habitate, but they draw up their own private contracts in case of a breakup which handle the financial part.

 

I really wish marriage wasn't a dice roll, but if you look at the data it really has become that.

 

A female friend told me the other day that marriage was necessary to make sure that men keep their promises. That just shocked me to my core. I always knew this, but I realized that it is essentially one-sided and punitive.

Edited June 11, 2013 by SuperGeek

[Els]

Threads like these always boggle me.

 

If you have 2376752 reasons to not want to marry... don't. Not sure who's holding the gun to your head. Just be honest and up-front about it.

 

If you want to marry... do.

 

QED, no?

[Mme. Chaucer]

A female friend told me the other day that marriage was necessary to make sure that men keep their promises. That just shocked me to my core. I always knew this

 

You always knew that marriage is necessary to make men keep their promises? That is a very jaundiced view of your fellow fellows, as well as of marriage in general.

 

Seriously, I can't believe you're back here with this tired old saw.

I recall that you've already covered the territory of your disdain for marriage quite extensively around here.

 

It's a positive thing that you are clear about where you stand on the issue, and that our society today is very open, in general, about people being able to choose marriage, no marriage, "domestic partnerships" or whatever. So live your life the way you wish!

 

Your opinion about why people choose to get married, though, has nothing to do with any of the reasons the people in my long life have ever decide to marry. Explaining the reasons to you won't change your mind, and there is no reason for you to change your mind. Just, simply, don't get married anymore! It shouldn't be a problem at all!

[SuperGeek]

Women don't hold a gun to our head, but they do expect marriage at some point most of the time. Marriage is great if you happen to marry the right person, but the percentage of doing that correctly is pretty low statistically (if you consider current data on the subject).

 

The OP was asking why most men are afraid of marriage and I outlined the most common reasons for it.

 

Threads like these always boggle me.

 

If you have 2376752 reasons to not want to marry... don't. Not sure who's holding the gun to your head. Just be honest and up-front about it.

 

If you want to marry... do.

 

QED, no?

[SuperGeek]

The funny part of this statement is that marriage can't force anyone to keep any promise. Look at all the divorces and unpaid child support.

 

Promises are kept by people who want to keep them and that's all. No government paper will force anyone to do it if they don't want to do it.

 

You always knew that marriage is necessary to make men keep their promises? That is a very jaundiced view of your fellow fellows, as well as of marriage in general.

[Mme. Chaucer]

For women it's easy to see why they would want to get married, it's essentially a guarantee that she'll continue to have access to his assets no matter what happens. An obvious benefit.

 

Where do you live? Nowhere I've ever been.

 

Mostly, I see professional people tend to marry other professionals. Many people who adhere to the more traditional family structure of man works / woman keeps house and raises family don't have much in the asset department.

 

In either scenario, nobody's looking for access to somebody else's assets. What makes you think that a person has "assets" just because he happens to be sporting a penis, anyway?

 

There's also a tangible benefit to corporations, after all women

spend the vast majority of household income.

 

Are you a teenager? Your perspective seems to be extremely simplistic.

 

If women spend the majority of household income … why do you think this is? Because she's buying tons of shoes, in most cases? Or because she is traditionally in charge of shopping for the whole family as well as sitting down to pay the household bills?

 

If, after a divorce, the female only had her own income to spend businesses would have to go without a significant amount of money she would've otherwise been able to spend ( his money ).

 

How did this money get designated as "HIS MONEY"? Are you envisioning a marriage to be akin to a father with an unruly child to manage? What kind of a family did you come from?

 

Anyway, the REAL misguided reason that people decide to marry is not so they can mooch off of a man, or be in charge of a grown up child. It's usually more like unrealistic romantic notions that cannot and don't hold up to real, everyday life. That is sad. But no reason for marriage to be eschewed by people who wish to do it.

 

You and the OP definitely need to steer clear of the institution, though!

[Els]

Women don't hold a gun to our head, but they do expect marriage at some point most of the time. Marriage is great if you happen to marry the right person, but the percentage of doing that correctly is pretty low statistically (if you consider current data on the subject).

 

The OP was asking why most men are afraid of marriage and I outlined the most common reasons for it.

 

The OP is a man.

 

And yes, I was referring to his need to start 766279246823 threads to state his distaste for marriage. There are people, men and women, who don't want marriage, and that's fine. Just be up-front about it and date someone with a similar view. Problem solved.

[Mme. Chaucer]

There are no punitive measures in place to dissuade women from abandoning their marriages.

 

Why should there be punitive measures to dissuade anyone from "abandoning their marriages"? Divorce is legal. If people don't want to be married anymore, they can avail themselves of it.

 

If a person doesn't want to pay child support if they bring in the majority of income in a family and end up divorced, they either should not have any kids, or not contribute the majority of income in their family.

[Mme. Chaucer]

If I recall correctly, the OP cheated in his marriage and then his wife evidently retaliated by doing everything she could to take him to the cleaners.

 

So it goes.

[Els]

If I recall correctly, the OP cheated in his marriage and then his wife evidently retaliated by doing everything she could to take him to the cleaners.

 

So it goes.

 

Not sure if that was the case for the OP, but I recall another male poster who was extremely butt-hurt about that exact phenomenon. Funny thing was that not only did he cheat on his ex-wife (whom to the best of his knowledge was completely loyal to him and the 'perfect wife' - his words!), he was emotionally abusive to her for the entirety of their marriage, then chose to divorce her, and was "appalled by how marriage can screw a man over" when she took him to the cleaners.

 

Goes to show how you really need to know someone's background story before deciding whether or not to take their complaints about 'marriage' seriously.

[SuperGeek]

Sure, that's fair, but women cheat on men as well in marriages (I see it all the time) and guess who still gets taken to the cleaners? The man does.

 

The man gets screwed over whether he's at fault or innocent today, at least from a financial and child custody perspective. That is how the divorce laws are formed in most 1st world nations.

 

If I recall correctly, the OP cheated in his marriage and then his wife evidently retaliated by doing everything she could to take him to the cleaners.

 

So it goes.

[Els]

That is how the divorce laws are formed in most 1st world nations.

 

Au contraire, the concept of paying lifelong alimony is one that is quite specific to the USA.

[SuperGeek]

yeah, emotionally abusive, another overused accusation against men that we can't defend against.

 

A man who politely disagrees with his wife on an issue can be labelled emotionally abusive with no evidence and basically just an accusation. Some courts and police departments take it a step further and recommend filing a restraining order 'just in case' (even if the complaint is baseless with zero proof) and that starts the downward spiral to ruin. Those restraining orders cause damage financially and to the character of the man without even being convicted of said abuse. I've seen it over and over again.

 

Every woman has a definition for what emotionally abusive even means.

 

Not sure if that was the case for the OP, but I recall another male poster who was extremely butt-hurt about that exact phenomenon. Funny thing was that not only did he cheat on his ex-wife (whom to the best of his knowledge was completely loyal to him and the 'perfect wife' - his words!), he was emotionally abusive to her for the entirety of their marriage, then chose to divorce her, and was "appalled by how marriage can screw a man over" when she took him to the cleaners.

Edited June 11, 2013 by SuperGeek