mattdaniels Posted May 31, 2013 Posted May 31, 2013 To sum things up.... I'm on the tail end of getting over a 5 year relationship (it's been a year). I haven't slept with someone in 9 months and while I'm feeling lonely, I've gotten rather used to this. I've been hanging out with two girls, one that I started "dating" for a week and I'm now calling it off because I'm finding myself completely uninterested and unattractive. We got to oral sex, and I just felt miserable afterwards since I knew instinctual that I will never be able to truly like this girl (and I can no longer do the hook up thing with no connection..). This other girl I've been hanging out with I've only kissed, but that was one night and I told her I'd like to be friends right now because quite honestly we hang out all the time and our social groups are the same. She's a very pretty girl, and awesome and I do enjoy hanging out with her, but I can just tell it wouldn't last if we dated... she's not quite my type. I can't explain it. She's a bit high strung, and while she's pretty, I don't find her really "sexy". Unfortunately at this point in my life I'm not really meeting that many women (or people in general actually), so I'm very hesitant to start hooking up with a friend unless I feel confident it will last. Is this crazy? My friends keep saying I should just date this girl, but A) I know I'm not being picky - I just know my type, and B) she's one of my few good friends right now.. if this gets screwed up, then I lose a great friend. I have crazy sexual anxiety at this point in my life though so I can't do hookups, besides it doesn't make me feel good. But my question is - is there an in-between where I can hookup with a girl who's a good close friend but keep it casual sort of? I just don't want to start this up and then meet the right girl and everything falls apart. And like I said, I'm pretty used to this whole thing anyway so I'm not desperate.
BluEyeL Posted May 31, 2013 Posted May 31, 2013 From what you describe, it seems for you would be best to wait. That is, if you can. You cannot do hookups, you say, and you don't think it would last with the friend. Meaning you'd ruin that friendship. I'd say wait as long as you can, and re-evaluate your options if it takes too long. 1
juicygirl Posted May 31, 2013 Posted May 31, 2013 Don't mess this girl around, if you already know she's not your type etc just leave it or you'll lose a friend. You sound depressed too, probably because you're not getting out as much these days. Get out the house more because you're not going to meet anyone sitting at house like lonely joe on the sofa. What hobby have you always wanted to do? Now is the time to try it out, you'll meet new people and plus when you find a new girl your hobby will be a good conversation piece. 2
Author mattdaniels Posted May 31, 2013 Author Posted May 31, 2013 Fair enough, although I wouldn't say I'm depressed. I'm a composer/producer and spend a hell of a lot of my time in the studio... I do go out probably 3 or 4 days a week. I have yet to find a hobby that gets me out of the house often... I'm making it sound way more intense than I meant to when I said I don't meet many people - I just mean my groups of friends are mostly in relationships or very busy, so there aren't very many new people around often. And while I do go out a lot, I'm not the type to strike up conversations with random people (I've tried to learn how to but it's difficult!).... If anyone has any suggestions (I realize how silly that may sound... "how do I meet more people")...
happykat Posted May 31, 2013 Posted May 31, 2013 If anyone has any suggestions (I realize how silly that may sound... "how do I meet more people")... If you mean meet more people in general (not just for dating)try meetup.com .. I have joined a hiking group that meets and hikes once a week, and a movie group that meets once a month. There are all kinds of different groups on there, you should check it out. There are singles groups too, but personally I think those would feel to "forced" for my comfort level. and to answer the original question - of course it's not stupid to wait for the right person. and I commend you for having the insight to not go further with your friend, even though it seems it would be convenient to do so.
paigej91 Posted May 31, 2013 Posted May 31, 2013 But my question is - is there an in-between where I can hookup with a girl who's a good close friend but keep it casual sort of? Nope. You want the best of both worlds, and it doesn't work like that. I guess, there may be some women out there, but they're lower in "supply". From her standpoint, that is a half-assed relationship with not enough depth and emotion. I won't give you advice about the other girl. I want to say give it a shot like your friend, but you seem to already be decided on it.
Sunshine87 Posted May 31, 2013 Posted May 31, 2013 To sum things up.... I'm on the tail end of getting over a 5 year relationship (it's been a year). I haven't slept with someone in 9 months and while I'm feeling lonely, I've gotten rather used to this. I've been hanging out with two girls, one that I started "dating" for a week and I'm now calling it off because I'm finding myself completely uninterested and unattractive. We got to oral sex, and I just felt miserable afterwards since I knew instinctual that I will never be able to truly like this girl (and I can no longer do the hook up thing with no connection..). This other girl I've been hanging out with I've only kissed, but that was one night and I told her I'd like to be friends right now because quite honestly we hang out all the time and our social groups are the same. She's a very pretty girl, and awesome and I do enjoy hanging out with her, but I can just tell it wouldn't last if we dated... she's not quite my type. I can't explain it. She's a bit high strung, and while she's pretty, I don't find her really "sexy". Unfortunately at this point in my life I'm not really meeting that many women (or people in general actually), so I'm very hesitant to start hooking up with a friend unless I feel confident it will last. Is this crazy? My friends keep saying I should just date this girl, but A) I know I'm not being picky - I just know my type, and B) she's one of my few good friends right now.. if this gets screwed up, then I lose a great friend. I have crazy sexual anxiety at this point in my life though so I can't do hookups, besides it doesn't make me feel good. But my question is - is there an in-between where I can hookup with a girl who's a good close friend but keep it casual sort of? I just don't want to start this up and then meet the right girl and everything falls apart. And like I said, I'm pretty used to this whole thing anyway so I'm not desperate. What is your type?
Emilia Posted May 31, 2013 Posted May 31, 2013 I just don't want to start this up and then meet the right girl and everything falls apart. And like I said, I'm pretty used to this whole thing anyway so I'm not desperate. This is the most important part. You have to be available when the right person comes along. It's best if you are not distracted by someone else who is ultimately not that meaningful to you, it's also important that you don't hurt people by discarding them when they are of no use to you anymore. Perhaps because I'm older and have seen lots of drama over the years that ultimately weren't worth the trouble, I opt for waiting, but this is not everyone's preference. Don't hurt anyone, that's the main thing. 3
salparadise Posted May 31, 2013 Posted May 31, 2013 I can relate to your dilemma. I remained celibate for nearly two years after my divorce. I was also socially isolated for the most part. I had some regular interaction with friends but it wasn't enough either in frequency or depth. My advice would be to do something different, whatever that may be, to both change your routine and meet new people. I found that interacting with women was what I really needed, but without the pressure of dating. Then I met someone to whom I was quite attracted and we began a relationship. I didn't fully realize it at the time, but it was a transitional relationship. I think it was exactly what I needed at the time... a bridge between the failed marriage and all of that pain, and whatever comes next. I believe it prepared me in a number of ways to be available but not needy or desperate. It made me feel whole and lovable again, provided time, context and an understanding soul to finish resolving the emotions, it was exciting and helped me become lively and optimistic about the future. All good. But how do you know? You don't. You just have to rely on instincts and do what you feel is right. My suggestion would be to start dating casually––you don't have to think of every date as your next life partner. There are plenty of women who are open to dating without the intent to marry the next guy they go out with. Just be honest about not being in a hurry to get serious, be true to yourself and those you date, and let life happen. No one knows what the future holds, and to think you can control it is an illusion of the highest order. Pay attention to your instincts, but I wouldn't automatically rule out these lady friends you mentioned. Sometimes friends end up becoming lovers and partners, and sometimes it's a wonderful thing even if it's not the last relationship of your lives. As long as you're true to yourselves and each other perhaps it's ok to 'walk together for awhile.' The point is that, after taking a break, you have to start living again somehow, take some risks, understand that things will always change, allow life happen without the illusion that you're always in control of the outcomes. Maintain integrity as you go forward one step at a time, and savor the surprises you find around each turn. If your instincts tell you there might be something good on one of the little side paths, check it out because sometimes the best things happen when you least expect it. 1
ReelAhdvice Posted May 31, 2013 Posted May 31, 2013 Matt, just go with the flow. After a major relationship, there will be a bunch of mini non relationships, sometimes just hookups, then from that process a serious relationship might bubble to surface. Unless, you meet someone you click with, who has it together and wants to get steady. Sometimes the mini non relationships, makes a former relationship better.
Author mattdaniels Posted May 31, 2013 Author Posted May 31, 2013 All very good advice, thank you - So my question then would be, how do you properly have a casual dating relationship? I just tried to with one girl and she ended upset that I wasn't all over her at a party then random said "we can't have sex until we're committed" (I didn't even bring up sex).... And, I went into that being 100% honest and open about where I am in my life and what I want. Maybe this girl was just a bad example... But all I've ever done is long full on relationships. I think I put off a relationship-y vibe that gives girls the wrong idea.... Any advice on how to do casual dating? Does that mean having sex?
Sunshine87 Posted May 31, 2013 Posted May 31, 2013 You never answered my question lol What's your type?
crederer Posted May 31, 2013 Posted May 31, 2013 K so the girl you're seeing you see as a friend with benefits. There is nothing wrong with that as long as you're both on the same page. You need to tell this girl that, and if she's not good with it then you need to respect that and not string her along for your own sexual desires. Real talk dude, lemme know how it goes. 1
salparadise Posted May 31, 2013 Posted May 31, 2013 Some women will only be interested in exclusive, committed, long-term relationships, so you're going to be looking for the sub set that don't have that requirement set in stone. But it's tricky because the nomenclature is loaded. You have to phrase things such that they don't get the impression that you're only out for a hit and run hookup. If you say outright you're not interested in a relationship, most will disappear instantly. And in fact, it's not that you aren't looking for a relationship, it's that you are looking to get totally serious right out of the gate. So phrases like "nothing too serious", "taking things slow" or "just looking to date" are more neutral and don't carry negative connotations. Don't use the word "casual". The reality is that all relationships start as casual dating and progress. No one expects commitment or exclusivity as of the first date, even if that's the ultimate goal. You aren't required to make advance declarations before going out with someone, but it's going to come up quickly with the ones who are focused on landing a husband. So you have to balance what you say, and when you say it, with the desire not to waste yours or anyone else's time. So ask women out and just be respectful and have a good time. Be honest but use innocuous phrases to describe your intent when the subject comes up. If you go out with someone a few times and there has been no conversation about it then she should not be making assumptions. Some will want exclusivity and commitment at some point, and perhaps you will too. Cross that bridge when you get there.
RedRobin Posted June 1, 2013 Posted June 1, 2013 Some women will only be interested in exclusive, committed, long-term relationships, so you're going to be looking for the sub set that don't have that requirement set in stone. But it's tricky because the nomenclature is loaded. You have to phrase things such that they don't get the impression that you're only out for a hit and run hookup. If you say outright you're not interested in a relationship, most will disappear instantly. And in fact, it's not that you aren't looking for a relationship, it's that you are looking to get totally serious right out of the gate. So phrases like "nothing too serious", "taking things slow" or "just looking to date" are more neutral and don't carry negative connotations. Don't use the word "casual". The reality is that all relationships start as casual dating and progress. No one expects commitment or exclusivity as of the first date, even if that's the ultimate goal. You aren't required to make advance declarations before going out with someone, but it's going to come up quickly with the ones who are focused on landing a husband. So you have to balance what you say, and when you say it, with the desire not to waste yours or anyone else's time. So ask women out and just be respectful and have a good time. Be honest but use innocuous phrases to describe your intent when the subject comes up. If you go out with someone a few times and there has been no conversation about it then she should not be making assumptions. Some will want exclusivity and commitment at some point, and perhaps you will too. Cross that bridge when you get there. That is called lying... Ok ladies... the above post illustrates what I'm talking about. The gentleman here is coaching this youngster on how to gently slide the lady of his interest into something casual without actually saying so up front... Here is what I'm talking about regarding men trying to 'make' you into a FWB without your permission... They won't answer a question directly and will attempt to dodge and weave. If they will dodge and weave on this... what other things are they dodging?? Men who do this already know up front that they aren't interested in anything long-term or serious with you... (whether that includes marriage or not) and so engage in 'innocuous phrases' that give them plausible deniability after the fact. 1
HoneyBadgerDontCare Posted June 4, 2013 Posted June 4, 2013 That is called lying... Ok ladies... the above post illustrates what I'm talking about. The gentleman here is coaching this youngster on how to gently slide the lady of his interest into something casual without actually saying so up front... Here is what I'm talking about regarding men trying to 'make' you into a FWB without your permission... They won't answer a question directly and will attempt to dodge and weave. If they will dodge and weave on this... what other things are they dodging?? Men who do this already know up front that they aren't interested in anything long-term or serious with you... (whether that includes marriage or not) and so engage in 'innocuous phrases' that give them plausible deniability after the fact. I actually think his strategy is a good one. I actively encourage guys I know to do it IRL. I have even taught some how to do it. Their sex life is much better because of it.
jolie_baby Posted June 4, 2013 Posted June 4, 2013 That is called lying... Ok ladies... the above post illustrates what I'm talking about. The gentleman here is coaching this youngster on how to gently slide the lady of his interest into something casual without actually saying so up front... Here is what I'm talking about regarding men trying to 'make' you into a FWB without your permission... They won't answer a question directly and will attempt to dodge and weave. If they will dodge and weave on this... what other things are they dodging?? Men who do this already know up front that they aren't interested in anything long-term or serious with you... (whether that includes marriage or not) and so engage in 'innocuous phrases' that give them plausible deniability after the fact. Thank you, RedRobin. 1
jolie_baby Posted June 4, 2013 Posted June 4, 2013 I actually think his strategy is a good one. I actively encourage guys I know to do it IRL. I have even taught some how to do it. Their sex life is much better because of it. IMO this "strategy" qualifies more for manipulation. Do you know how much hurt/ damage this may be causing?
Emilia Posted June 4, 2013 Posted June 4, 2013 So my question then would be, how do you properly have a casual dating relationship? I just tried to with one girl and she ended upset that I wasn't all over her at a party then random said "we can't have sex until we're committed" (I didn't even bring up sex).... You can't without being a heartbreaker. Most women - especially younger girls - will believe that they can convince you to be in a relationship with them or will get attached in one way or another. A famous British comedian said once that you can't be a womaniser without putting your compassion on hold and I think he was right. I know it's not a label you are aiming for but you get my meaning. 1
Cutiepie1976 Posted June 4, 2013 Posted June 4, 2013 All very good advice, thank you - So my question then would be, how do you properly have a casual dating relationship? I just tried to with one girl and she ended upset that I wasn't all over her at a party then random said "we can't have sex until we're committed" (I didn't even bring up sex).... And, I went into that being 100% honest and open about where I am in my life and what I want. Maybe this girl was just a bad example... But all I've ever done is long full on relationships. I think I put off a relationship-y vibe that gives girls the wrong idea.... Any advice on how to do casual dating? Does that mean having sex? Not every woman is looking for a serious relationship. Some just want something light and fun. The key, is to be upfront about what you want. Those that want the same things will stay. Most of those who want something serious will bow out and seek a relationship elsewhere. On occasion, as you discovered, you run into someone who likes you so much that, no matter what you say, because "they feel such a connection," they are convinced you will change your mind once you get to know how wonderful they are. Technically, they are adults and responsible for what results, but if you're smart, you will avoid them even though they are willing to forego what they want (initially) and accept the little that you can offer (initially). That just never ends well!
RedRobin Posted June 4, 2013 Posted June 4, 2013 I actually think his strategy is a good one. I actively encourage guys I know to do it IRL. I have even taught some how to do it. Thank you for confirming what I already know There were people in my recent thread who were doubting this happens. *shrug* Thank you, RedRobin. No problem... having worked around mostly men my whole life, I've learned a few things about how some of them operate.
salparadise Posted June 4, 2013 Posted June 4, 2013 (edited) That is called lying... Ok ladies... the above post illustrates what I'm talking about. The gentleman here is coaching this youngster on how to gently slide the lady of his interest into something casual without actually saying so up front... Here is what I'm talking about regarding men trying to 'make' you into a FWB without your permission... They won't answer a question directly and will attempt to dodge and weave. If they will dodge and weave on this... what other things are they dodging?? Men who do this already know up front that they aren't interested in anything long-term or serious with you... (whether that includes marriage or not) and so engage in 'innocuous phrases' that give them plausible deniability after the fact. No RR, it's not lying. It just pisses you off because the only dating scenario you view as legitimate is one in which the man wholly subscribes to your version of honorable––which means he has already decided that he intends to marry you, and dating is about you deciding whether or not you'll have him. The rest of the world does not consider it evil for a man and woman to date just for fun and companionship and to see how it goes from there. Believe it or not, there are many women with that perspective as well. They want male companionship, and some may even want sex, without the presumption that dating someone constitutes a giant step down the aisle with organ music playing in their heads. Many people have the attitude that they'd consider marriage in the future if the right person happens to come along, but do not set that out as a short-term priority, and in the meantime desire companionship and to enjoy having of someone of the opposite sex in their lives. Now, if a woman thinks as you do, she is perfectly within her rights to simply say to the man that she only wants to date if he's damn sure he wants to marry her. And in that case, it's perfectly honorable for him to say something to the effect of "I'm just looking to date" or "not looking for anything too serious." At that point she can make whatever decision is right for her. I've defended your right to have the attitudes that you do in other threads, and I stand by that. But your perspective is just that and is not mandatory for all, does not define right and wrong, and having a differing perspective does not make anyone dishonorable. What I recommended is not lying, not deceptive, but being honest––it just does not dovetail with your paradigm, or apparently your belief that differing perspectives should not be allowed. Edited June 4, 2013 by salparadise 1
jphcbpa Posted June 4, 2013 Posted June 4, 2013 Trust your gut. It sounds like you want a deep connection and true intimacy with someone, not just the physical. Very few people are willing to go to this place and completely vulnerable with another person. It feels awkward because it is rare these days to walk this path.
RedRobin Posted June 5, 2013 Posted June 5, 2013 (edited) No RR, it's not lying. It just pisses you off because the only dating scenario you view as legitimate is one in which the man wholly subscribes to your version of honorable––which means he has already decided that he intends to marry you, and dating is about you deciding whether or not you'll have him. The rest of the world does not consider it evil for a man and woman to date just for fun and companionship and to see how it goes from there. Believe it or not, there are many women with that perspective as well. They want male companionship, and some may even want sex, without the presumption that dating someone constitutes a giant step down the aisle with organ music playing in their heads. Many people have the attitude that they'd consider marriage in the future if the right person happens to come along, but do not set that out as a short-term priority, and in the meantime desire companionship and to enjoy having of someone of the opposite sex in their lives. Now, if a woman thinks as you do, she is perfectly within her rights to simply say to the man that she only wants to date if he's damn sure he wants to marry her. And in that case, it's perfectly honorable for him to say something to the effect of "I'm just looking to date" or "not looking for anything too serious." At that point she can make whatever decision is right for her. I've defended your right to have the attitudes that you do in other threads, and I stand by that. But your perspective is just that and is not mandatory for all, does not define right and wrong, and having a differing perspective does not make anyone dishonorable. What I recommended is not lying, not deceptive, but being honest––it just does not dovetail with your paradigm, or apparently your belief that differing perspectives should not be allowed. Your paranoia/fear/aversion to being married again or having a serious relationship does not justify misleading or manipulating women. If you prefer to never marry again (or ever) and don't want anything 'serious' (whatever that means to you) just say so. I agree that there are lots of women who would be just fine with that... But that is not what you were suggesting... You were suggesting giving women 'innocuous phrases' and weasel words that are designed to concealed your true feelings/goals/intentions as long as possible. That is lying. The OP asked how he can date casually. The answer is simple... be upfront and find a woman who also wants to date casually. No need for "innocuous phrases" or dodging and weaving... Edited June 5, 2013 by RedRobin
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