just my take on the whole phenomenon

May 31, 2013

I think it is sad that your are unwilling to acknowledge the pain you caused another person. TO THAT PERSON.

And you know what, I don't blame myself for not keeping him interested. There are plenty of others that were interested. Without "flaunting my wares".

You say that you are working on your "guilt" within yourself, but I have yet to see it in any of your posts. You continue to blame his BW (ex?). You continue to blame him for breaking his vows. Yet nowhere have you acknowledged the blame you carry for sleeping with a MM. Why is that?

I don't have guilt about our relationship. I wish it had started differently, but I don't feel I hurt her. I feel she hurt herself and abandoned the relationship LONG before I came along. He was lonely for years and stayed that way, trying to fill in all the holes in his relationship with other things, and still feeling lonely. He stayed for religious reasons, and thankfully, when our R began he realized it wasn't fair for him or her to stay in a miserable relationship. The truth is, I hope that this is a wake up call for her and she'll save herself by realizing she's lost a great thing because she can't control her drinking. Maybe she'll stop. Maybe she'll find someone else who wants to live that way. Either way, HE is happier than he has ever been, and so am I. And I'm glad. Sorry if that makes you unhappy, but that is how it is. We are good for one another.

May 31, 2013

don't you see the problem here...you are blaming his wife for not making him happy, when it sounds very much like he didn't even know himself how to be happy until he had therapy.

Somehow she is supposed to know him better than himself? He had to attend therapy learn what made him happy, but she should just know?

come on, do you really believe that makes any sense?

If you do, that doesn't bode well for your future...

I'm saying that he went without happiness in his life because he felt that his 'job' was to take care of someone who didn't care for him or herself. He's dealing with why he felt that was the proper road to take. Why he felt that was the best thing to do. He's dealing with the guilt he felt at leaving a religious marriage, etc. The thing he does NOT feel guilty about is us. He never has. I know you (generally) like to twist my words and try to make my BF look bad, but he's not. He's not weak, or sniveling, or overbearing and rude. He's not selfish or unkind. He is a good man. He is a human being who deserves love and affection, attention. A partner who will love him and not love the bottle more. Cry foul all you want, but it's what is right for us, and we're happy.

May 31, 2013

I do not blame my MM's W. God, no. She's done nothing, but she also KNOWS nothing!

Who am I mad at and bitter towards? Women! All of us! Turning on each other and fighting each other to keep our broken, damaged men! Why are we so stupid?

OW are stupid for being in love, believing lies (spoken aloud or projected) and trying to keep our man. And he is ours, theoretically, for a time. During the A he is loving us like crazy and showering us with attention and importance, and it is hard--damn near impossible--to think we aren't the most important person in his life. Don't get into his bed?! Duh, we love him! And he loves us! We believe--really believe--we are SO loved!

But on dday, the BS joins our 'women are idiots' club and do just as we've done. We shouldn't have an A with an MM? Well, you shouldn't stay with an emotionally abusive a-hole that could have brought you home a nice STD! But you do! You are sure you want to R because you "luuuuuuurv him," just like we do! Awwww, of course you love him. He's so good to you. Justify much?

Women are the most intelligent, strong, resilient, capable humans on the planet. We bring home the bacon and fry it up in a pan! But we will do anything to keep the object of our affection, even if he's treated us like crap. We will scratch the eyes out of that dirty wh*re so that we can keep our low down, cheating, jobless alcoholic all to ourselves! Such a shame. To be honest, I feel that men are terrified that we will actually stop turning on each other and put the blame where it really belongs: on them. Then their party will really be over.

Sorry, but I just wanted to share and vent my frustrations. I was not and will never be my MM's wife's enemy. He is the only one capable of hurting her. In my perfect universe-altering-scenario, she finds out and leaves him. I refuse to take any part of him back. He stays alone and lonely, becoming the cautionary tale in the family. "Do not ever cheat on your wife or even think about it! You could end up like Great Uncle Funky! And we know how miserable he is!"

May 31, 2013

The OW and BW are not in the same position at all. The MM has invited the OW into his life as his partner in deceit and betrayal. The OW listens to the MM reveal intimate details of his wife and marriage, she plots with him on how he will walk out on his wife and his marriage will end. She witnesses him lying to and cheating on another woman. She has no problem with the despicable and dishonorable way the MM is treating his wife and marriage as long as she believes she will be the one who benefits from his disgusting behavior. She waits in anticipation for the day the BW's life as she knows it will be destroyed and taken away from her. The OW is not a friend to the BW or the BW's children. She is an enemy. I consider anyone who is participating in the destruction of my family an enemy, I don't give a damn who invited you into my life.

If my kids invited their friends into the house to steal from me I wouldn't feel pity for the friends because my kids invited them in and allowed them to hurt me. Yes I would be devastated and destroyed that my own children betrayed me in such a terrible way. The theft would have never happened had my kids not allowed it, because the friends weren't actually prowling the neighborhood looking to rob people, they just couldn't resist the opportunity that practically fell in their lap when my kids opened the door to them and told them to help themselves. I would absolutely be the most horrified by the actions of my children, but I would hardly call the friends "victims". They knew that my children were betraying the family home and hurting me and they were happy to help. They cannot excuse their action because my kids invited them in.

Anybody who participates in any way in hurting me or my family in any capacity I would consider my enemy. Just because you might have a soft spot spot for the OW and feel badly for what you did to her ( and you should) doesn't mean anyone else is going to feel bad for what you did to her, especially not the true victim of the betrayal. Obviously the OW had no problem with knowing your wife was being lied to, cheated on and betrayed. Oh she may have wanted you to stop cheating and leave but only for her benefit, not because she gave a damn about your wife.

The difference is that I am not an inanimate object sitting in a corner in your home. I did not sit indifferently as someone came into my home, loaded me onto a dolly, and rolled me away. I left my home to see my other woman. I made a conscious effort to put myself in places I thought she might be. I engaged her in as much conversation as I could. I stepped away from my home to be near her as often as I was able to.

Neither my other woman nor I want anyone to feel badly for her. She made her choices, as did I. You are right that she twisted her morals into a bunch in order to have a relationship with me and that is something she's working on. I still will not accuse her of being a kidnapper when it's apparent I was a runaway.

I respect your view and you are entitled to it, as I am mine.

May 31, 2013

it sounds like you have learned and grown, which bodes well for your future relationships...not everyone can do that. They get mired in blaming everyone and everything else for their actions.

And then you give Kudos to Finally Settled for going into therapy right after you've made negative comments about my bf being in therapy to find out why he stayed and took care of someone who refused help and wasted all of his good years. Oh my god. Seems a bit hypocritical to me.

May 31, 2013

If her alcoholism is as bad as both you and MM claim, why was there never a worry that she would spiral further out of control? What I mean to say is that even us sober BSs can easily spiral into depression, which is why most of us are advised to stay away from alcohol upon Dday.

Sure his BW had issues and made her own bed to lie in, but that still does not erase the fact that you were sleeping with a married man.

I truly get that you are good for each other. I am glad that you were able to make your relationship a honest and "valid" one. But it just seems so cold, that you are unable to recognize your part. That could also become a problem in your "new" relationship. Just my thoughts. Sorry.

May 31, 2013

If her alcoholism is as bad as both you and MM claim, why was there never a worry that she would spiral further out of control? What I mean to say is that even us sober BSs can easily spiral into depression, which is why most of us are advised to stay away from alcohol upon Dday.

Sure his BW had issues and made her own bed to lie in, but that still does not erase the fact that you were sleeping with a married man.

I truly get that you are good for each other. I am glad that you were able to make your relationship a honest and "valid" one. But it just seems so cold, that you are unable to recognize your part. That could also become a problem in your "new" relationship. Just my thoughts. Sorry.

Don't be sorry. I respect your right to an opinion. I just feel that she was his problem to deal with and not my issue. You cannot 'steal' a person, I don't feel I 'stole' her husband, so to speak. I feel they need to deal with their demons and since she is incapable, he's left and dealt with them on his own. There absolutely was/is worry about her spiraling out of control. The problem is, there is nothing to be done about it. Her family are also heavy drinkers and do not see her behavior as dangerous and would attribute any changes in her behavior on the divorce.

I will say again, he's tried to get her into a number of programs and therapy. She's refused. He's just to a point where he is through trying and he's realized he simply cannot save her and must save himself.

May 31, 2013

I do not blame my MM's W. God, no. She's done nothing, but she also KNOWS nothing!

Who am I mad at and bitter towards? Women! All of us! Turning on each other and fighting each other to keep our broken, damaged men! Why are we so stupid?

OW are stupid for being in love, believing lies (spoken aloud or projected) and trying to keep our man. And he is ours, theoretically, for a time. During the A he is loving us like crazy and showering us with attention and importance, and it is hard--damn near impossible--to think we aren't the most important person in his life. Don't get into his bed?! Duh, we love him! And he loves us! We believe--really believe--we are SO loved!

But on dday, the BS joins our 'women are idiots' club and do just as we've done. We shouldn't have an A with an MM? Well, you shouldn't stay with an emotionally abusive a-hole that could have brought you home a nice STD! But you do! You are sure you want to R because you "luuuuuuurv him," just like we do! Awwww, of course you love him. He's so good to you. Justify much?

Women are the most intelligent, strong, resilient, capable humans on the planet. We bring home the bacon and fry it up in a pan! But we will do anything to keep the object of our affection, even if he's treated us like crap. We will scratch the eyes out of that dirty wh*re so that we can keep our low down, cheating, jobless alcoholic all to ourselves! Such a shame. To be honest, I feel that men are terrified that we will actually stop turning on each other and put the blame where it really belongs: on them. Then their party will really be over.

Sorry, but I just wanted to share and vent my frustrations. I was not and will never be my MM's wife's enemy. He is the only one capable of hurting her. In my perfect universe-altering-scenario, she finds out and leaves him. I refuse to take any part of him back. He stays alone and lonely, becoming the cautionary tale in the family. "Do not ever cheat on your wife or even think about it! You could end up like Great Uncle Funky! And we know how miserable he is!"

I truly get that you are in an angry phase right now. With good reason, short of knowing the most likely outcome.

Not all men are losers, dead beats and scum. But you are right about one thing, women need to STOP stabbing each other in the back. They need to realize that if a man is with another woman, then they are off limits. Just as MW are off limits to OM.

I don't consider myself stupid for reconciling with my FWH. We have 14 yrs, young kids and quite frankly no way that we could financially handle a separation without both of us moving in with separate family members (none of mine live in this area). And yes I love him, probably more than he will ever know. But 14 yrs will get you that. I have been gracious enough to give him one more chance, yet I do my best not to hold it over his head.

And one last thing....you already became his BW's enemy the moment you went further than casual friends. The moment she finds out...she will forever view you as the enemy. Sorry but that is the way it works. Even if you are a complete stranger to her, you helped her husband deceive/lie and break the vows.

May 31, 2013

he didn't try to deal with her demons. He ran away and escaped from it to you. If he tried to deal with her demons he would have divorced first then found you.

That is crap. You have no right to even assume that. He dealt with her for YEARS. He went to Al Anon, he had their daughter in therapy. He had therapy with ecclesiastical leaders. To no avail. She will not change. And as for us, we didn't set out to have an affair. But, we did. As I've said, I wish we had waited until he'd left, but we didn't. So, we live with that, and will deal with it on our terms. But we do not regret our relationship.

May 31, 2013

This is where you biggest problem will lie...

you applaud your married man for seeking therapy, and you are right...therapy can be a wonderful thing.

But it seems as if all the therapy he's had hasn't changed the fundamental act that he made a choice to have an affair. Blaming that on his wife will do nothing...he made the choice and it seems like he somehow is trying to blame it on someone else. He had alternatives to cheating, which he made the choice not to pursue. He could have left, asked for a divorce, insisted she get into rehab, any number of things...yet he chose to have an affair and you both continue to blame his choice on her...there is something in him that allows him to see cheating as a viable option when he's not happy...

I know you love him and you want to be the one to make him happy...but if the whole reason you think he will never cheat on you is because you will always make him happy...really think about that...ask yourself what will happen if you get sick, if some tragedy strikes , if you lose your job, or if one of any number of things happens that keep you form being able to ensure that he's happy...what choice will he make then?

Maybe you two are good together...but I would highly encourage him to seek more therapy so he can learn to make better choices than cheating when the had times hit...right now, he's learned that cheating can give him a "quick fix' to his hurt feelings...he needs to learn other ways

And just so we're clear, we both take responsibility for our role in our affair. We're not dullards. We understand that it wasn't the best thing. And we have dealt with it each in our own way. I complain about her because she thinks the only problem was him following his penis when in reality our affair had very little to do with sex (although it is fantastic) and a lot more to do with our connection one to the other. Something they do not have, something that she did not care to have. Even her daughter has pulled away from her because there is no dealing with someone who is not rational. So we move forward and try to make things as good for us and the family we are making together the best it can be.

May 31, 2013

Huh? Where in my post did I compare MM to inanimate objects? Is that what you took from analogy of my children inviting welcoming theives into my house and telling them to help themselves to my belongings. Obviously you did not comprehend my meaning. I wasn't saying that the MM is just like the objects being stolen from my house. Duh! You said in your first post that the BW should not view the OW as an enemy. I was saying that anybody who wishes for the destruction of my marriage and home is someone I consider an enemy to me. It doesn't mattter to me if the OW is invited in by my husband or if theives in are invited by my children. The thieves and the OW are still enemies to my life regardless of who welcomed them in. Nowhere did I say the MM is just like an inanimate object being wheeled away. I don't know how you got that.

You spoke of your children allowing someone to come into your home and that someone stealing from you. I am saying that I did not sit quietly waiting for her to steal me away. I made a conscious choice to seek her out. To me your analogy had the married man being stolen away and I was clarifying that I was not stolen. I opened the door and I walked away. I find your analogy quite weak and I was pointing out why.

You are most welcome to feel an other woman is an enemy if you choose to, but my feeling is the enemy to the marriage is the person who makes a choice to walk away from it.

You state that I said betrayed wives should not view other woman as the enemy. I may be wrong, but I don't recall saying that. It is not my decision how anyone views another party, but I am clearly saying that is how I feel.

May 31, 2013

Yet again, women resisting reality. Blaming each other.

A woman cannot stab another woman in the back. Only your H can do that. I'm sorry that he did that to you. I know you want to blame her. Go ahead. Your H is thrilled. It worked out very well for him, as it always does. It's not like I think that I'm going to change women's minds or anything, and men know exactly how to play us. They DO play us.

The only time an H gets kicked out is if he won't give up his OW. You think she's an idiot, but why? Isn't the tug-o-war over the same man? Ugh.

May 31, 2013

You regret the affair not leaving your marriage? Is that correct?

That is correct. I should have left my marriage years before the affair even entered my mind, but due to many reasons I did not. My marriage was neither wonderful nor horrible, I was neither happy nor sad, my exwife saw no reason to try and fine tune things, and I didn't rock the boat because I had precious little to truly complain about.

May 31, 2013

Yet again, women resisting reality. Blaming each other.

Actually I have ever right to blame her. She did initiate the affair and is a proven serial cheater in her marriage. I talked with both her and her BH. That is right....I exposed her to her husband. I don't regret it. Reality is this....she sent videos and pics in less than a month. She is the one that was constantly trying to set meet ups. She left my FWH's affair once she figured out that he would not sleep with her. She is the reason most other women do not trust each other. But that is my reality.

A woman cannot stab another woman in the back.

They can and you did. Whether you knew her or not, you slept with her husband. Not stabbing her in the back would have been you calling her and telling her what the hell her husband was up to. Telling her you were going to sleep with him.

Only your H can do that.

And you are right WSs stab their spouse in the back too!!!!

I'm sorry that he did that to you.

Thank you for that acknowledgement.

I know you want to blame her. Go ahead. Your H is thrilled.

I do and I blame him too. Guess he is the one that has to see my pain everyday. He has to live with the fact that he took the cowardly way out and almost lost his kids and wife because of it. He walks a very fine line. No, he is not THRILLED. He is grateful for another chance, but not thrilled.

It worked out very well for him, as it always does. It's not like I think that I'm going to change women's minds or anything, and men know exactly how to play us. They DO play us.

The sad part is you have allowed yourself to be played. See I know exactly what I am doing and what is as stake. I am not being played one bit, that ship has long sailed away. I am in control of my future, because I have the information I need.

The only time an H gets kicked out is if he won't give up his OW.

Not true at all. I know you are making generalizations right now, but do a little reading on the BS side and you will realize that is far from the truth.

You think she's an idiot, but why?

She has a man that has forgiven her multiple times and yet fails to realize what is right in front of her face. That she thinks as sex as affair behavior or prostitution. That she can never feel the closeness with her husband that should be there. That she can spout traditional family roles, yet cannot live them. You can also count in there that she thinks videos and pics are safe to send without thought to the repercussions should they end up in the wrong hands.

Isn't the tug-o-war over the same man? Ugh.

Nope...he had his choice and he made it. There is no tug of war. I would have let him go with my blessings.

May 31, 2013

Sohappy, I happen to know first hand how terrible it is to be with an alcoholic. I was with one for 8 years and it was hopeless. I don't think your MM was in way responsible for his wife's alcoholism or that it was his job to stick by her and make her stop drinking. My experience has taught me that you simply cannot make an alcoholic stop drinking, no matter how much you love them, how hard you try to make them happy, how much help you try to get them if they don't want to fight for themselves than nothing anyone else tries to do them makes any difference. As long as the alcoholic is actively drinking and feeding their addiction their intimate personal relationships suffer and are really quite hopeless. I would never judge a spouse for eventually making the decision to walk away from a marriage to an alcoholic, as hard as that may be. I made the decision to walk away from my relationship of 8 years with an alcoholic and I was heartbroken to do so but I had to accept that nothing I did or did not do caused him to drink and nothing I did or did not do was going to make him stop drinking.

However you keep bringing up your MM's spouses alcoholism as some sort of justification for his cheating and lying and I don't get that. The two are completely unrelated. She is an alcoholic and he is a cheater. He didn't cause her drinking and she didn't cause his cheating. I didn't cheat my way out of my relationship with my alcoholic bf. I am not a cheater and a liar, nothing anyone else does or doesn't do is going to make me cheat and lie. His ex is an alcoholic. She could meet prince charming tomorrow and she'd still be an alcoholic. Her problem isn't that she hasn't met the right person yet and when she does she will stop drinking, her flaw is within her and nobody but her is going to change that. Your MM is a cheater. His problem is not that he hasn't been with the right person yet. He could meet his princess tomorrow and that wouldn't change the fact that he has it in him to cheat and lie. Nobody is going to change that flaw but him.

I'm not using her drinking as an excuse to his cheating. I'm simply stating that he was in a horrible situation, and even if what he did was not ideal, the affair, at least it did one good thing: it gave him the courage to leave her. It helped him remember that there are better things out there than cleaning vomit off of the sheets of their bed at three a.m. I understand you are saying one did not cause the other, but that is untrue. Her drinking and their lack of a relationship did absolutely cause him to seek affection elsewhere. As I've said, we both wish it hadn't started this way, but do not regret the relationship.

May 31, 2013

it was that bad that he chose to leave his daughter to deal with it while he spent his spare time with you?
You say he got his daughter into therapy? Really/ Without his wife's knowledge or consent he went behind her back and did that?

You seem so stuck on her alcoholism and that she couldn't change because she didn't want to...

you know what? neither does he! As long as he continues to blame her for his choices, he will not change. He will still be the same person he always was. I find it surprising that his therapist never pointed that out to him...it's true for every negative behavior...

I hope it never happens to you, but one night you may be lying in bed crying because you found out he's cheating on you...if and when that day comes, spare her a thought

He doesn't blame her alcoholism. I blame it. And it should be blamed. As for therapy, his daughter is 25 years old. They've been in therapy together. Look, I know you'd like to think the worst, have a big pitchfork party looking for your devil... you won't find it in my relationship. Sorry.

May 31, 2013

I'm sorry but you completely misunderstood my analogy. It wasn't about items being stolen or about the MM being stolen. It was about how I consider anyone who wishes to see my life, my family or my marriage broken is actually an enemy to me. It doesn't matter if that person was invited into my life by my husband or anyone else in my family whom I trusted to protect me. It was never about comparing the MM to objects being stolen. If you don't understand then you don't. I give up.

After this comment I shall give up as well. You are welcome to feel as you will, but one word from the wayward spouse stops all collusion with anyone who could be an enemy to you, no. By not saying no he assumes the role of enemy to you.

I shall now take leave of this exchange and leave you to it.

May 31, 2013

it was that bad that he chose to leave his daughter to deal with it while he spent his spare time with you?
You say he got his daughter into therapy? Really/ Without his wife's knowledge or consent he went behind her back and did that?

You seem so stuck on her alcoholism and that she couldn't change because she didn't want to...

you know what? neither does he! As long as he continues to blame her for his choices, he will not change. He will still be the same person he always was. I find it surprising that his therapist never pointed that out to him...it's true for every negative behavior...

I hope it never happens to you, but one night you may be lying in bed crying because you found out he's cheating on you...if and when that day comes, spare her a thought

By the way, one discretion in thirty years does not mean he should change who he is. I love who he is. I like who he is. Many other people do as well. He likes himself. He's a good person. He doesn't make excuses for anything. He's just trying to figure out why he tried to protect her for so long.

And you CAN get your child into therapy with just one parent taking them. He doesn't need her permission.

May 31, 2013

Okay, so pretty much everything is the wifes fault then. Her bad behaviour is her fault and his bad behaviour is also her fault. Her drinking is her fault , her bad marriage is her fault, his cheating and lying is her fault, your being an ow is her fault, the affair is her fault. This worthless drunken alcoholic who according to you is incapable of even running her own life is somehow to blame for everyone elses actions. She can't even walk herself to the toilet to barf but you hold her responsible for her husbands choices. If alcoholics make their partners cheat on them, then how come I didn't cheat on my ex alcoholic partner?

Our relationship was already more broken and dysfunctional than I could stand, I wanted to leave without adding any more ugliness to the situation. I felt horrible for walking away from him and I had nothing but compassion for him and his disease. He hated me because his alcoholic mind saw me as abandoning him and he believed that I never loved him even though I spent years going above and beyond to treat him with love and understanding. He was devastated when we broke up and began to make all sorts of promises about how he would quit drinking and be a better partner. I went through with leaving because I knew that it doesn't work that way. That any promises he made to me in desperation to hold onto the relationship would not stand the test of time and we would end up back in the same place. But I cried for him, my heart broke for him and it hurt me so much to hurt him. All I can say is Thank God! I didn't cheat on him. It still makes me tear up a little to this day when I remember how lost and heartbroken he was when I left, I don't think I could stand it if I had added the pain of betrayal to the pain he was already in. Alcoholics are not evil people who deserve to be cheated on and to lose the people they love. I'm sorry but they're just not. They are sick and trapped in the grasp of their alcoholism.

I don't know whatever happened to my ex. He completely disappeared about six months after we split up. Last time I spoke to him he said he was moving and I heard from his friends that they believed he went back to his hometown. Wherever he is I hope with all my heart that he is well and happy. There are a lot of painful memories from my relationship with him but some happy ones too. I made mistakes but thankfully I didn't ever cheat on him or betray him.

Would you prefer that I lied and said her alcoholism didn't have a huge impact on the ruination of their relationship? Would you rather that I say his being terribly lonely and feeling used wasn't part of the reason he found someone else who isn't like his stbxw? Would you feel better if I said it's all his fault, he should have continued his misery for her so that she could continue her lifestyle at the expense of his happiness? Not going to happen. I'm so happy for him I want to do a happy dance every time he laughs, every time he smiles at me, kisses me. I won't feel guilt over our relationship. She could have fixed their relationship. She had thirty years. Nobody should have to live with an alcoholic. I am glad he's out. I'm glad we've found eachother.

May 31, 2013

look...

having an affair doesn't make someone a bad person...if I thought that, I would never have reconciled...what it does mean is that the person makes some p@ss poor choices, and they need to learn to make better ones.

His affair, form what you say, wasn't one bad choice...it was a series of bad choices that went on and on for an extended time...it wasn't a one night stand...it wand't like he just woke up one day and said " I'm going to have an affair with the first woman I see..." ( which happened to be you)...he made a series of poor choices that led him up to cheating

It doesn't matter what I say, you and every other BS on the OW SUPPORT forum will put your spin on it and make it sound terrible. Have at it. You can't take away the smile on my face just thinking of him. Of how wonderful he is. Our affair was something that we did choose. Again, apparently everything he's done to figure out why he put up with her for so long is not enough to placate you. So, what good does it do to explain myself and my situation to you? None. You should leave your WS. It's clear he made a bunch of horrible choices and is not now, nor has he ever been trustworthy. He'll do it again. You'll find yourself sad and crying that he cheated on you. Have a good day.

May 31, 2013

My husband tried the whole, I felt neglected bull crap. I asked, how could I have fulfilled your needs when you were not being truthful about having someone on the side, your time and attention were divided. It was a lie he told himself to ease his guilt. He understands now that if he had come to me and had an honest conversation about what he was feeling, we could have worked on it. Once he stepped over the line and cheated, he could no longer blame me and he knows that. I understand I have a role in this, but I have no blame. Had my self esteem sunk so low that I needed to have an affair, he would have been the first person I would have gone to and talked it out. It's been a long, painful road in reconciliation, but it would not be possible without him taking full blame for his actions.

May 31, 2013

Someone who stays in such a mess of dysfunction for 30 long years has major issues themselves. People who stay with an alcoholic are enablers. Emotionally healthy people get out, to save themselves and their children.

And......it won't all go away just because he left. You would be wise to realize this that he isn't magically cured of his own dysfunction.

LG, I just want to say in my defense that other people have said this. And when I state that he is in therapy I get attacked for that. So I will simply put out there that those people should make up their minds. Which is it? Should he be in therapy and will be better, or is therapy a joke? So many assumptions being made based on a few lines on a forum in SUPPORT FOR OW/OM. I have a right to speak my piece without being torn apart no matter what I say.

Did I mean what I said to sprouts about her hubby? Of course not. My point was that she has been telling me all morning that no matter what my boyfriend does he is damaged goods. Is her hubby not as damaged, if not more so than my bf, simply because he didn't have the balls to leave? I'd say yes. Just my opinion, of course.

May 31, 2013

Great! Another poster who is going to twist my words and pretend I said things I never said or even implied. Nowhere in my posts did I ever say that your MM had an obligation to continue to live in misery with an alcoholic. Can you defend your position in an intelligent manner without spewing crap at me that has nothing to do with anything I ever said. I guess it's easy to win an argument when you completely ignore the actual words of the other person and just start arguing with pretend made up words.

I'll try one more time. I believe your MM's wife's alcholism absolutely contributed to the demise of the marriage. I believe that a person has the right to leave a relationship with an alcoholic or drug addict at anytime and not be judged for it. I believe that the alcoholic is sick but still responsible for their choices and only they can choose to change and get better. It is nobodys elses responsiblitly but the alcoholics to make the alcoholic get better, nor is it within anyone elses power to fix an alcoholic. Are you following so far? I DO NOT believe that alcoholics make people cheat. I DO NOT believe alcoholics should be blamed for anyone elses bad behaviour. I DO NOT believe that anyone has a right to cheat and lie even if the person they are cheating on and lying to is an alcoholic. The BW in your situation did not make her husband cheat on her. He is responsible for his choice to become a liar and a cheater just like she is responsible for her choice to remain trapped in her alcoholism. Stop blaming her for her husbands actions. She cannot be blamed for any actions that were not her own.

I don't disagree with this. I'm sorry if I gave you that impression. The one thing I would take issue with is the fact that any dysfunction in a relationship plays a part in a partner straying. It just does. That's like saying "The serial cheating had nothing to do with the divorce". Of course one action affects the others.

May 31, 2013

Yet again, women resisting reality. Blaming each other.

A woman cannot stab another woman in the back. Only your H can do that. I'm sorry that he did that to you. I know you want to blame her. Go ahead. Your H is thrilled. It worked out very well for him, as it always does. It's not like I think that I'm going to change women's minds or anything, and men know exactly how to play us. They DO play us.

The only time an H gets kicked out is if he won't give up his OW. You think she's an idiot, but why? Isn't the tug-o-war over the same man? Ugh.

I disagree, you stabbed his wife in the back. You chose to sleep with her husband. If he wanted to cheat on her it didn't have to be with you.

You talk the talk, but the facts speak for themselves. You were invited into being an affair partner but you had the choice to decline.

I wish OW/OM would own their part in deception, it's just too easy to blame the WS and claim your hands are clean. You own 100% of your actions just like the WS should own 100% of their actions.

If you're truly sincere, you would give his wife the truth and own your part in it, instead of blame shifting

I understand from your posts his wife doesn't know the truth. What's stopping you from giving her the truth.

Edited May 31, 2013 by Furious

May 31, 2013

I disagree, you stabbed his wife in the back. You chose to sleep with her husband. If he wanted to cheat on her it didn't have to be with you.

You talk the talk, but the facts speak for themselves. You were invited into being an affair partner but you had the choice to decline.

I wish OW/OM would own their part in deception, it's just too easy to blame the WS and claim your hands are clean. You own 100% of your actions just like the WS should own 100% of their actions.

If you're truly sincere, you would give his wife the truth and own your part in it, instead of blame shifting

I understand from your posts his wife doesn't know the truth. What's stopping you from giving her the truth.

I do own 100% of my actions. I did what I did and my responsibility was to myself and the people I knew. Did I want them to meet him? Did I want him in my home? Did I want to meet his family when offered? Did I want to compromise my morals? Did I love him enough to get involved? Do I want the inevitable heartbreak? He had a whole other set of issues that were wrapped around his decision to have an A. I blamed my xH and not his OW when he cheated so why on earth would I expect to be blamed for dMMs actions? I accept 100% of my actions but it's pretty obvious what I feel I have responsibility for doesn't agree with what others think I should feel responsibility for.

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