Need a man's perspective - sort of long

[pabarrister80943]

I could really use some objective advice.

 

I am a married 41 year old professional woman. I have been married 12 years, and together with my husband for 18 years.

 

My husband and I had a pretty decent marriage until about three years ago, when he lost his job. He had been an executive, and made a tremendous amount of money. In the three since he was let go, he has just fallen into a massive depression. Although he continues to be a wonderful father, he has not been a good partner. Long story short, i have finally gotten to a place I never thought I would be - I don't know if I want to be married to him anymore.

 

Meanwhile, I have become infatuated with another man. Everytime I see him, I get the whole butterflies in my stomach, etc. My husband and I have a large circle of friends with whom we socialize frequently. One of the married men in this circle has been spending a lot of time hanging out with our group alone, since his wife has decided to basically check out of their marriage. In any event, in the past month or two, when we are together, he and I have been spending a good deal of time talking to each other. He is always really complimentary to me, telling me that I am "hot" or that he thinks I look like a beautiful celebrity. When we talk, he stands close to me, with his body facing mine. He hears things that I say even when we are not next to each other, and, and can recall things I have said at other gatherings. I have sometimes caught him staring at me. A few weeks ago, me and another friend were talking to him. My friend said to him something about a hair cut, and I chimed in saying that he should do such and such with his hair, and it would be awesome. Well, the following weekend, he shows up, and guess what? He had gotten the exact haircut I had suggested. He also kept staring at me that night from across the room. Otherwise, he is such a gentleman to me, offering me his last drink or offering to lend me something for the week, that I know he couldn't live without. One last point, my husband is generally around, and he and this man are friends. My husband will often come stand in between me and this man while we are talking, and basically take over the conversation. In any case, this guy stays where he is, and will generally wait until my husband leaves, in order to resume our conversation.

 

Well, I saw him this weekend, in a small group of friends, which included my husband's brother. My husband had another obligation, and was not at the gathering. He showed up after having been in a minor accident earlier. Well, unlike other times, he seemed a bit distant. Although we had a few conversations, he didn't stand next to me all night, as he has previously. I will say I wasn't excatly in the best place that evening either.

 

I am a very close to the vest person, and do not actively flirt, especially with a married man. I have never contacted him, etc. outside of seeing him at a social event. He has not contacted me either. One last point, this guy is super nice and considerate generally.

 

What I want to know is whether it is possible that this man is attracted or interested in me in any way. And before anyone mentions it, I know all about the infidelity issues, etc. I am in a bad place in my marriage, and it is likely to come apart at the seems regardless. His marriage has also fallen apart. I would just like to have a guy's perspective on what I have observed.

[omit]

O pabarrister, I'm sorry to hear your marriage is not in a good place. This is not an easy one. So many things there. you work with said man I presume. Would that not be complicated in the long run?

 

Careful pabbarrister he has recently become single, is he just enjoying that?

[hppr]

Have you tried talking to your husband? Like really talking to him? Going from hotshot moneymaker to no job is no fun, and since men measure themselves by what they make/how much they love their job he probably thinks that he is worthless. A relative of mine was like that, he was with HP for 19 years and for 18 of them he was treated great. Then new management took over and they cleaned out everyone who had been there for more than 5 but less than 20 years. He was really down for about 4 years until Microsoft hired him on. So I guess it depends on whether you want to try to salvage what you have or go for another guy.

[Jambrivt]

So if you're in a "bad place" in your marriage why don't you just divorce him? Oh that's right you want to hang on until you are sure the opportunity is there before upgrading to a new, more exciting version. Typical. You never see that on these forums anymore.

 

And make sure you always let us know how it's hubby's fault and he "drove" you to this new hunks' arms.

[Ninja'sHusband]

This sounds like a time when your husband needs you most. Maybe he's not as attractive because his motivation and confidence are down but if you help him through this tough situation instead of backstabbing him with a married man, maybe you'll come out stronger than ever. Do you have kids? What about them?

 

This possible affair with a married man sounds like a disaster in the making. It's absolutely the wrong direction to go in. Be strong, behind every great man there is a great woman some say. If you don't have your man's back, he may fall down even further. I think you would want the same support in a rough situation. Maybe you got cancer and became less physically attractive, would it help you if he cheated during that rough time? Or maybe while your were pregnant? It happens a lot and is disgusting. Don't be that woman.

[Mr. Lucky]

What I want to know is whether it is possible that this man is attracted or interested in me in any way. And before anyone mentions it, I know all about the infidelity issues, etc. I am in a bad place in my marriage, and it is likely to come apart at the seems regardless. His marriage has also fallen apart. I would just like to have a guy's perspective on what I have observed.

Why are you concerned about his intentions? "Hot, beautiful celebrity" that you are, I'm sure you've had plenty of guys stare at you. Why does his perspective matter to you?

 

Mr. Lucky

[Johan1965]

If this lady's marriage is truly over, then it's over. If she no longer loves her husband and has truly come to the point of no return, then she is doing nothing wrong so font give her such a hard time please. What I find is that for some reason people kinda transpose their own fears onto other people's situations, so that if they fear infidelity in their own marriage they react badly to it on someone else's.

 

Now, I don't think you should necessarily get divorced first before you commence any new relationship. But I do think you should tell your husband your marriage is over and end it before you commence a new relationship. That's being honest and showing respect for a guy you've married and lived with for nearly 20 years.

 

Before you do that you naturally want to know if the other guy is interested. That's your question, you are not asking for marriage guidance counselling. Well I'd say as a guy that yeah he's clearly interested on you and you are bonding somewhat. But that's not to say he loves you, he justify be enjoying the freedom of flirting that he now has. He may just be experimenting. So you're gonna have to find out. But know that once you end your marriage and start this new relationship that you will be bringing your husband down further and there will be no way back. That said, on the long run this gives him an opportunity to find love again and have a fresh start in life eventually.

 

Do bear in mind that depression is not something he can help at all and that it changes people's personalities and makes relationships difficult. But it won't last forever, when he gets a new job hisself esteem will recover as could your marriage on the back of it.

 

Tough call. Follow your heart.

[SJC2008]

What has he done/is doing to not be a good partner? How long has this been going on? Have you told him about this?

[Scrab22]

What has he done/is doing to not be a good partner? How long has this been going on? Have you told him about this?

 

Exactly. We need more info in order to advise you what to do.

But don't divorce your husband yet.

Did you have sparks with your husband at an early age?

[TiredFamilyGuy]

Yes he's interested. You are flirting with him and you both know it, is my take.

 

Your post is a gushy "Does he fancy me?" query, full of "butterflies", "complimentary", "hot", "beautiful celebrity", "infatuated".

 

Not much detail about your husband, or whether you have kids, or a job.

 

You are low on detail about *what* it is about your husband that changed, other than that he lost his job. Take it from a man, he is yes depressed about that disparity and is yet to find some other purpose. He's probably not talking about it.

 

Depression can be hard on the spouse, and we get it, you are enjoying the attention and flirting, and it is making you feel alive and you don't know what you want and ...and....it is clear as day where this line of thoughts goes.

 

But what do I know? You don't need permission, go ahead: kick your husband in the nuts: when he's out of work and feeling awful about it and his role in the world - have an affair with one of his friends in your social circle, and then get divorced. Sounds much better than talking about things out with your husband. Blow it all up, do.

 

Or make an effort to help your H. There isn't much thought of him in the post. You don't seem to have much inclination to listen with genuine sympathy if he did talk, perhaps. Maybe you resent him for not providing as he did before, and he knows. Try this on for size: maybe it's not him who changed - maybe your feelings for him are at some level keyed in with his earning ability, and now he doesn't have it, you are looking around: women can be as shallow about this as men can be are about looks. It doesn't need to be overt, just little digs and verbalised comparisons now and again, to let him know he is diminished in your eyes.

 

Or go with the hot beautiful celebrity butterflies. Those shallow butterflies.

Edited June 2, 2013 by TiredFamilyGuy

[Johan1965]

Maybe the husbands better off without HER, ever think of that? She might be part of the long term esteem problem for him. Maybe on the long run, with a new life and a new woman who loves him for what he is not what he provides, this will work out for HIM much better than the OP?

[murphomatic]

From a man's perspective - yes, he's flirting back with you and probably likes the thought of you two squaring off somewhere private. Remember though - no matter how attractive/awesome/inspiring someone is, somebody somewhere is absolutely SICK of their s.h.i.t. ... and you will be too once you get to know them, and you get past all the veneer and facade, and all the ugly little truths and annoyances start to show themselves.

 

However, what's more important to remember is that you SWORE AN OATH to love and CONSOLE your current husband. Don't be a fair-weather wife ... don't be the person who's willing to hang in there as long as it's sunshine and unicorns farting rainbows all day long. It's really disheartening to see how easily people look to bail out of something they swore their honor on the moment that some storm clouds show up on the horizon. As other's have stated, you don't provide much information on your husband or why he has not been a good partner, but from the little that you do provide - I agree with what someone else stated: He lost his high-level job, he took a massive blow to the ego, pride and likely confidence. His wife is busy looking at other men. Work with this guy before you pound the final nail into his coffin simply because things got a little too "yucky" to suit your fine tastes.

Edited June 2, 2013 by murphomatic
Ever-wary of the grammar nazis.

[Jon Tenzo]

I don't necessarily blame the OP but marriages take work. At this moment I am not sure I would be willing to put in the work (and the risk) required hence I am not married. And most people don't listen when the priest says "through good times AND BAD".

 

A lot of women don't realize the new economy is a lot of middle aged men getting laid off and never getting their jobs back, and women replacing them. How do you think they feel? A lot of these men have never been jobless so this is the first time they are out of work in their life since they were teenagers. Losing your job in your 40's (depending on the industry) is not like losing something in your 20's. Much harder to explain and bounce back. A wife of a man that age needs to be cognizant of this.

[vickvagner]

No moralizing about infidelity here. Just some advice -

 

The problem here is that this guy is a fully included part of your social group. It's one thing to have a thing outside the marriage with someone who doesn't know your spouse - its quite another to take up with someone in this situation.

 

The other problem is that it sounds like hubby is ALWAYS around - which makes things even tougher.

 

So logistically, I don't know how you pull this off?

 

I think he's interested - most nice/polite guys don't know what to do when its right in front of us - we're afraid of offending someone, and given the situation, on the off-chance he's wrong and you said something, it could be a major social black-eye.

 

So you're going to have to do the ask - worst case, if he's not interested, he'll be flattered and politely turn you down. Since he's been flirting, he won't say anything to anyone. But... man's perspective- unless he's a gay monk, he's not going to turn you down. Most men won't when its made clear what's on the table.

 

Do you have his email? Get yourself a fake account, not with your name on it (don't do this if your hubby is some sort of IT security professional, lol) and email him - say "I love talking with you at our parties, I'm wondering if you'd be interested in meeting for lunch at [name a clearly discrete place outside your general neighborhood] and talking more."

 

He'll get the gyst - I promise you he'll agree to the lunch meeting. At that point, you have to take it from there - my advice is you only do this if what you want is an affair - at lunch, just tell him -- I'm in a bad place, I need something more, but it has to be discrete -- he will tell you yes or no and the groundrules are set.

[drr6]

 

Your reaction is not cool at all. Yeah, I understand some of it is unconscious but still: you were cool with him when he was a pimp daddy. Now that he is feeling despondent and could most use a partner to help him get back on track, you are bailing.

 

There is no bigger time to step up to the plate to help a PARTNER than when he has been dealt such a blow. Obviously he is still the same capable person that was able to become a successful executive. But he is in a downward spiral.

 

 

This scenario happens all the time and does not get called out like it should.

[Fugu]

I could really use some objective advice.

 

I am a married 41 year old professional woman. I have been married 12 years, and together with my husband for 18 years.

 

My husband and I had a pretty decent marriage until about three years ago, when he lost his job. He had been an executive, and made a tremendous amount of money. In the three since he was let go, he has just fallen into a massive depression. Although he continues to be a wonderful father, he has not been a good partner. Long story short, i have finally gotten to a place I never thought I would be - I don't know if I want to be married to him anymore.

 

Meanwhile, I have become infatuated with another man. Everytime I see him, I get the whole butterflies in my stomach, etc. My husband and I have a large circle of friends with whom we socialize frequently. One of the married men in this circle has been spending a lot of time hanging out with our group alone, since his wife has decided to basically check out of their marriage. In any event, in the past month or two, when we are together, he and I have been spending a good deal of time talking to each other. He is always really complimentary to me, telling me that I am "hot" or that he thinks I look like a beautiful celebrity. When we talk, he stands close to me, with his body facing mine. He hears things that I say even when we are not next to each other, and, and can recall things I have said at other gatherings. I have sometimes caught him staring at me. A few weeks ago, me and another friend were talking to him. My friend said to him something about a hair cut, and I chimed in saying that he should do such and such with his hair, and it would be awesome. Well, the following weekend, he shows up, and guess what? He had gotten the exact haircut I had suggested. He also kept staring at me that night from across the room. Otherwise, he is such a gentleman to me, offering me his last drink or offering to lend me something for the week, that I know he couldn't live without. One last point, my husband is generally around, and he and this man are friends. My husband will often come stand in between me and this man while we are talking, and basically take over the conversation. In any case, this guy stays where he is, and will generally wait until my husband leaves, in order to resume our conversation.

 

Well, I saw him this weekend, in a small group of friends, which included my husband's brother. My husband had another obligation, and was not at the gathering. He showed up after having been in a minor accident earlier. Well, unlike other times, he seemed a bit distant. Although we had a few conversations, he didn't stand next to me all night, as he has previously. I will say I wasn't excatly in the best place that evening either.

 

I am a very close to the vest person, and do not actively flirt, especially with a married man. I have never contacted him, etc. outside of seeing him at a social event. He has not contacted me either. One last point, this guy is super nice and considerate generally.

 

What I want to know is whether it is possible that this man is attracted or interested in me in any way. And before anyone mentions it, I know all about the infidelity issues, etc. I am in a bad place in my marriage, and it is likely to come apart at the seems regardless. His marriage has also fallen apart. I would just like to have a guy's perspective on what I have observed.

 

The likelihood of any relationship with this guy succeeding is really slim. That's not to say that something (i.e. sex) couldn't happen - I think it probably could.

 

The problem is that both of you will be rebounding. Both of you will be looking at this relationship as an escape from your marriages, and that's going to take away a lot of the objectivity that you need when you're entering a new relationship.

 

If you want an escape, I guess you could just take this as far as it goes, with the knowledge that it will probably end eventually. Have you really given up on your marriage, though? Look, your husband fell on hard times. So he's not what he used to be. I think a lot of men would have the same problem. It means a lot to a man to be a provider, and he doesn't feel like he's been one. It makes him feel less of a man. Try to understand him, and if you've already tried....keep trying.

[Fugu]

A lot of women don't realize the new economy is a lot of middle aged men getting laid off and never getting their jobs back, and women replacing them. How do you think they feel?

 

Yeah, I kinda get your point. I also wonder whatever happened to just toughing it out. Marriage isn't about staying only when the times are good. Why get married in the first place if that's all it is?

[violetsareviolet]

to the OP, I don't think you need anyone's perspective except your own.

 

you made a commitment to the man you married, to love and cherish, for better or worse...yaddy yaddy.

 

why would you even want to entertain the idea of being with another weak person who like-mindedly has no desire to try and make their marriage work? where do you think that relationship would end up? do you think you could trust this other man? nah.

 

be an example to other women and your children (if you have them, iunno)...stop belittling yourself and your unknowing husband by even entertaining the immature "does he like meeeee?!" crap and help your man out of the gutter.

 

I think you just like the idea of this new guy because you haven't seen any of his weaknesses yet.

 

support the man of your household and empower him...assist in strengthening his resolve. this will in turn, make you a stronger, sexier and more alluring woman to him. I can guarantee the love will return to your household; not overnight of course. Nothing happens that quickly.

 

basically it boils down to this:

 

how do you think he would feel if he found your post? do you even care?

 

 

no offense, but for a 41 professional woman as you say, this is some junior high shenanigans.

 

I hope you do the right thing. Cheers, my friend.

Edited June 7, 2013 by violetsareviolet

[findingnemo]

I could really use some objective advice.

 

I am a married 41 year old professional woman. I have been married 12 years, and together with my husband for 18 years.

 

My husband and I had a pretty decent marriage until about three years ago, when he lost his job. He had been an executive, and made a tremendous amount of money. In the three since he was let go, he has just fallen into a massive depression. Although he continues to be a wonderful father, he has not been a good partner. Long story short, i have finally gotten to a place I never thought I would be - I don't know if I want to be married to him anymore.

 

Meanwhile, I have become infatuated with another man. Everytime I see him, I get the whole butterflies in my stomach, etc. My husband and I have a large circle of friends with whom we socialize frequently. One of the married men in this circle has been spending a lot of time hanging out with our group alone, since his wife has decided to basically check out of their marriage. In any event, in the past month or two, when we are together, he and I have been spending a good deal of time talking to each other. He is always really complimentary to me, telling me that I am "hot" or that he thinks I look like a beautiful celebrity. When we talk, he stands close to me, with his body facing mine. He hears things that I say even when we are not next to each other, and, and can recall things I have said at other gatherings. I have sometimes caught him staring at me. A few weeks ago, me and another friend were talking to him. My friend said to him something about a hair cut, and I chimed in saying that he should do such and such with his hair, and it would be awesome. Well, the following weekend, he shows up, and guess what? He had gotten the exact haircut I had suggested. He also kept staring at me that night from across the room. Otherwise, he is such a gentleman to me, offering me his last drink or offering to lend me something for the week, that I know he couldn't live without. One last point, my husband is generally around, and he and this man are friends. My husband will often come stand in between me and this man while we are talking, and basically take over the conversation. In any case, this guy stays where he is, and will generally wait until my husband leaves, in order to resume our conversation.

 

Well, I saw him this weekend, in a small group of friends, which included my husband's brother. My husband had another obligation, and was not at the gathering. He showed up after having been in a minor accident earlier. Well, unlike other times, he seemed a bit distant. Although we had a few conversations, he didn't stand next to me all night, as he has previously. I will say I wasn't excatly in the best place that evening either.

 

I am a very close to the vest person, and do not actively flirt, especially with a married man. I have never contacted him, etc. outside of seeing him at a social event. He has not contacted me either. One last point, this guy is super nice and considerate generally.

 

What I want to know is whether it is possible that this man is attracted or interested in me in any way. And before anyone mentions it, I know all about the infidelity issues, etc. I am in a bad place in my marriage, and it is likely to come apart at the seems regardless. His marriage has also fallen apart. I would just like to have a guy's perspective on what I have observed.

 

 

My mother would say "You're barking up the wrong tree, my dear". You have problems in your marriage. You have two choices. The first is to work on them and come to a conclusion. Are you staying or going? The second is to avoid all your problems and engage in an escapist adventure - an affair.

 

Having an A with cool dude will bring you immense joy at first, but like a hard drug it will eventually compound your problems. When you're discovered, nothing you accuse your H of doing or not doing will hold weight. You will be the bad one in your M.

 

You are at a stage where most people don't seek advice. The beginning of an attraction. You can nip it in the bud right now. It won't mean you don't like the man or he doesn't like you. It means you have principles and value your family. Who wouldn't admire that? There will be plenty of good men available including cool dude when you are free of a legal tie.

[Glowy sun]

I think you're not looking at this new man with a clear perspective. You're going through a really tough time with your husband, so it's understandable that you'd be very receptive to good attention from someone else. This guy may be the man of your dreams or the feelings might fade fast (and there's a likely probability he's just a guy who knows the right things to say to a woman to get her to sleep with him). But you won't really know which is which if you just have an affair with him because your failing marriage will distort any feelings you have for this new man. You also won't know if you're giving your husband short shrift because of your infatuation for the new guy.

My advice, cut off ties with the new guy and try to work things out with your husband. Like, really put your all into it. You'll know within six months or so if it's salvageable. If you and the new guy were meant to be, you can pick your relationship back up if things don't work out with your husband. And then you can enjoy it without a bunch of complications mucking it up.

[Roweena]

OP, you should take your marriage vows seriously. There's nothing much to say except buck up. If he knew that you were going to give up on him, he probably wouldn't have married you.