Question for Men...OMs and MMs

[SweetBella1]

I'd like a man's take on this. Week 7 of NC and I'm getting close to having processed everything. Just have a couple of things nagging at me...

 

xMM and I are both married and we both engaged in our A knowing that we didn't plan to divorce our spouses. I expected the A to be something light, a friends with benefits type situation that would hopefully span quite a while. (Yes I'm one of those rare woman who can handle that.) It was xMM's 3rd extramarital A and my first.

 

The A was just like most, very passionate, the "best", etc. xMM was definitely enjoying the physical aspect, as was I. The chemistry was phenomenal and it takes a lot to impress me! LOL. I was a very "chill" affair partner and didn't expect much from him. I didn't entertain the idea of ever being his #1, since I knew I couldn't make him my top priority, either.

 

So 3 weeks into the A xMM wanted to know if we could be exclusive because there was 'no other way he could have an affair.' I was hesitant because obviously, we were already cheating on our spouses and I don't kid myself into thinking that there's honor among thieves. If I'm nothing else, I'm a realist.

 

We saw each other one evening a week, 6-7 hours at a stretch. He always insisted on paying for everything. When relaxing, xMM would talk about himself non-stop. I was primarily the audience.

 

Not long into the A, xMM then began to accelerate our connection, texting me all day and night, starting at 6:55 a.m. and ending around 9:00 p.m. He declared his affection for me (stopping just short of the "L" word) and exhibited possessiveness and jealousy. I learned that it didn't take much to set off his jealousy alarm.

 

I was also very concerned about the level of attachment that was forming - I had never wanted that much intensity in an A - but against my better judgment I went along with him, to keep the pleasure train moving along. And, of course, I started to feel more than just friendship (much to my chagrin.)

 

Then, about 7 weeks into the A, after being led to believe that I was special to him, xMM nonchalantly told me that, yes, our affair would eventually end and when it did, we would never speak again. "We'll go back to being strangers?", I asked incredulously. Yes, he replied as calmly as if he was discussing a business transaction.

 

Question #1 Doesn't that seem incongruent? Why demand exclusivity and hype up the interaction, knowing that the person with whom the intimacy is being built will DEFINITELY go away for good? If I know someone is temporary, I will actually go out of my way to not get too attached...not the opposite.

 

Afraid of the inevitable day when he'd nonchalantly pull the rip cord, I decided to keep my options open. Although I didn't cheat on him, after 3 months xMM discovered me in a lie (basically he realized I might be talking to other men besides him) and that's more than he could handle. He cut bait and left.

 

Question #2 This guy said that he never planned to leave his W, so why couldn't he just relax and enjoy our relationship as it was? Why complicate it to the point where he demolished it? It's pleasure and attention from someone who shares an immense attraction and doesn't expect him to change his whole world for her. I never even demanded exclusivity from him!

 

Maybe I'm wired more like a "guy" than xMM is, but to me, that's just crazy. In his position I'd have been able to keep things more even keeled.

 

Thanks for your input, I'm looking forward to getting this situation completely processed and closed!

[thefooloftheyear]

Its quite simple, men dont like sharing sex partners....

 

Frankly I dont know how any guy can successfully do it.

 

Its like if you have ever watched any wildlife shows, you will see Alpha males kill other males that challenge to mate with their females. They will even kill and eat the offspring that isnt theirs to basically eradicte that bloodline...Yes, I know we arent animals, but those same, deep rooted intsinctual feelings rise to the surface in us humans..

 

Now, on the outside, sure, the female in the affair is going to find this contradictory and potentially selfish. But from a males perspective its just the way we are wired...And the more "Alpha" the male is the more its going to be a problem..Less alpha "omega" type males might be able to tolerate it, I really dont know.. Some guys will even flat out refuse to go back to an ex if he knows she slept with someone else during the breakup. And many guys have murdered women and OM over this...But lets not get so dramatic..

 

Good news is that you, as the female, control what happens or not. If he doesnt like it, then the only option is you end it or he bows out.

 

I hope I answered your question..

 

TFY

[SweetBella1]

Its quite simple, men dont like sharing sex partners....

 

Frankly I dont know how any guy can successfully do it.

 

Its like if you have ever watched any wildlife shows, you will see Alpha males kill other males that challenge to mate with their females. They will even kill and eat the offspring that isnt theirs to basically eradicte that bloodline...Yes, I know we arent animals, but those same, deep rooted intsinctual feelings rise to the surface in us humans..

 

Now, on the outside, sure, the female in the affair is going to find this contradictory and potentially selfish. But from a males perspective its just the way we are wired...And the more "Alpha" the male is the more its going to be a problem..Less alpha "omega" type males might be able to tolerate it, I really dont know.. Some guys will even flat out refuse to go back to an ex if he knows she slept with someone else during the breakup. And many guys have murdered women and OM over this...But lets not get so dramatic..

 

Good news is that you, as the female, control what happens or not. If he doesnt like it, then the only option is you end it or he bows out.

 

I hope I answered your question..

 

TFY

 

Thanks for your insight. Yes, I'm aware of mating territoriality in the animal kingdom but xMM and I were already "mated" with other people. He was not being exclusive with his own wife, or me with my H. That would seem to alter the dynamics somewhat.

 

Also, what about the first question, why would xMM care to accelerate the affair (into an intense love affair/relationship) when he fully intended/planned for us to revert to strangers in the end? What's the point of dead-end street intimacy?

 

And xMM wasn't sharing me except with my H. There was just an indication that there could be potential for me to meet someone else. I never did. So an inclination of insecurity/jealousy is enough to send a big, strong, alpha male bear running back into the forest?!? I don't know, it just doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

[carhill]

Question #1 Doesn't that seem incongruent? Why demand exclusivity and hype up the interaction, knowing that the person with whom the intimacy is being built will DEFINITELY go away for good?

 

It's a psychological manipulation to command fidelity while your particular affair box is out. Once he puts that box away, you're a zero so it doesn't matter. Generally, a person's ego is the central pivot of all these machinations. His EMA history can provide some guidance in this area. His language is predicated on past success. Men are pragmatists. They do what works.

 

Question #2 This guy said that he never planned to leave his W, so why couldn't he just relax and enjoy our relationship as it was? Why complicate it to the point where he demolished it?

 

His ego demands variety, so he has 'mini' relationships with each EMA, from infatuation to honeymoon to plateau to dismissal. It's simple variety. If not for replacing one partner with another, he'd essentially have a parallel wife and that's not what he's in the game for. He already has one of those.

 

IMO, if you're looking for a casual sex partner, a promiscuous single man, perhaps younger, would be a better bet. Be clear about the boundaries. Good luck.

[thefooloftheyear]

Thanks for your insight. Yes, I'm aware of mating territoriality in the animal kingdom but xMM and I were already "mated" with other people. He was not being exclusive with his own wife, or me with my H. That would seem to alter the dynamics somewhat.

 

Also, what about the first question, why would xMM care to accelerate the affair (into an intense love affair/relationship) when he fully intended/planned for us to revert to strangers in the end? What's the point of dead-end street intimacy?

 

And xMM wasn't sharing me except with my H. There was just an indication that there could be potential for me to meet someone else. I never did. So an inclination of insecurity/jealousy is enough to send a big, strong, alpha male bear running back into the forest?!? I don't know, it just doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

 

Miss Bella

 

Its all there...

 

-It doesnt matter if he was "mated" to his wife...You just became another female in his pride..He could have had a dozen others and they would have gotten the same treatment. It mattered none that he was exclusive..YOU had to be for him...NOT saying its right, but thats the way it is with many men, especially Alpha's.

 

He "accelerated" the affair because he wanted to "lock you in" so you dont mate with others...Simple as that.

 

 

On your last point..Yes, if he ran for the woods, its not because he was afraid or anything. This is where the "human" element comes into play. If he cant essentially "lock you in" and he cant overpower you and force you to submit(like an animal would), then the only option is to flee.

 

And trust me on this, he isnt happy about it...

 

TFY

[SweetBella1]

 

And trust me on this, he isnt happy about it...

 

 

Because his alpha male pride was hurt?

 

BTW, thank you for your perspective on this, you and carhill, too.

Edited May 29, 2013 by SweetBella1

[thefooloftheyear]

Because his alpha male pride was hurt?

 

BTW, thank you for your perspective on this, you and carhill, too.

 

 

No...I dont believe so, anyway...

 

There just was no other way to get his way...When forced to make a decision to "fight or flight"..Flight became the better option of the two difficult scenarios..

Are we having fun yet??

 

TFY

[Charlie Harper]

This guy is a narcissist. That explains everything. You were his narcissistic supply for a while and he got bored. Narcissists need to renew the supply periodically. When a narcissist is indifferent the silence is absolute.

 

 

DING DING DING we have a winner here!

 

Forget about him and dont forget when playing with fire be sure to quit before you get burned.

[SweetBella1]

This guy is a narcissist. That explains everything. You were his narcissistic supply for a while and he got bored. Narcissists need to renew the supply periodically. When a narcissist is indifferent the silence is absolute.

 

Please watch all the Sam Vatkin videos on narcissism

Sam Vaknin - YouTube

 

Your guy is a narcissist and you continue to waste your time in analyzing a narcissist.

 

I agree that xMM is a narcissist but disagree that he got simply got bored. The A was relatively young and boredom wasn't (yet) part of the equation. xMM just realized that he didn't have control, and for a true narcissist, the loss of perceived dominance/control is a death knell for the relationship. I do have a hard time understanding how an ego can be that big, that twisted. It's foreign to me but I'm beginning to accept the ugly truths about narcissism, even if I don't comprehend it on a personal level.

 

Analyzing the situation is only a waste of time if it's not helping me process the situation and learn from it. And I am learning, and healing...so it's not a waste of time. I know how you feel, Pierre. I'm doing my best.

 

I will check out those videos, thanks.

[SweetBella1]

Forget about him and dont forget when playing with fire be sure to quit before you get burned.

 

Thanks Charlie, but too late. Already burned.

[Praying4Peace]

I agree that xMM is a narcissist but disagree that he got simply got bored. The A was relatively young and boredom wasn't (yet) part of the equation. xMM just realized that he didn't have control, and for a true narcissist, the loss of perceived dominance/control is a death knell for the relationship. I do have a hard time understanding how an ego can be that big, that twisted. It's foreign to me but I'm beginning to accept the ugly truths about narcissism, even if I don't comprehend it on a personal level.

 

Analyzing the situation is only a waste of time if it's not helping me process the situation and learn from it. And I am learning, and healing...so it's not a waste of time. I know how you feel, Pierre. I'm doing my best.

 

I will check out those videos, thanks.

 

You're absolutely right its about CONTROL. My ex went nutso if he wasn't in charge. He had to make sure everything was going his way and didn't care to figure out what that way was. We had conversations about this and he admitted to as much. That he didn't care about his W, but he didn't want her to have anyone else. And he didn't want me to have anyone else either. He's been lurking around lately but he doesn't have the balls to contact me. For him it was always throw out breadcrumbs and wait for me to come get them. I am pissed off today.

 

But people like that are always unhappy and make others miserable.

[tinker683]

From what I can gather from what I've read, he wanted to have his cake and eat it too. He wanted all the benefits of an emotional and physical affairs without actually having to commit and put both feet in to being in one and when you rejected that, he took that as rejection of him since you didn't give him what he wanted so he reacted best in the way that would allow him to maintain some sort of control.

 

Sounds like you're better off.

[SweetBella1]

The question that begs an answer is why are you in love with a narcissist?

 

Well I'm definitely not in love with xMM, never was or claimed to be. I liked him, or so I thought.

 

I am somewhat fascinated by the situation because A) I'm analytical by nature and B) I want to understand what would draw me toward an individual like xMM. I'm beginning to accept that he fulfilled a strong subconscious desire to seek validation from a fickle, emotionally unavailable source which is a familiar (read: comfortable) role for me. That push and pull emotional source is addictive for me, it's what I've known my whole life. Hot and cold, on-again off-again validation.

 

He isn't the first narcissistic man I dated, the first was a particularly heartbreaking relationship in my 20's. By comparing my relationships with both of these men, and lots of introspection, I'm able to see the real issue.

 

This isn't about Narcissist A or B, it's about my inability to accept that anyone could love me without tireless efforts for their acceptance. For someone like me, the more I have to struggle for their validation, the more valuable it is. It's certainly unhealthy but if you knew my history you'd have connected the dots in under 10 seconds. It takes me a little longer to gain perspective since I'm at the epicenter and don't have the "forest for the trees" angle.

 

Unfortunately this dysfunction is so ingrained in my psyche that I doubt it will ever completely disappear. I hope to find a skilled psychiatrist who can help me learn to diminish some of the emotional anxiety so that I can be happy with my sweet little life without seeking out invalidating individuals to recreate past despair.

 

My H knows about the A; I told him 2 weeks ago. He forgave me immediately and reminded me that we married "for better or worse" and that we're a team. We're stronger and closer. THAT is validation from a true source. For someone with my issues, it's hard to accept that anyone could care about me that much, so my default reaction is to diminish the source. That's what has to change. I have to learn to exalt the source of my validation, accept it and appreciate it.

 

But no, xMM was never special enough for me to fall in love with him. He and his massive insecurities knew that all along...he didn't have ultimate control over me - which he needs in order to maintain a relationship - so he ran away to maintain his self-perceived dominance. Sayonara. His loss.

 

I'm 7 weeks into NC. In the clips you recommended, Sam Vaknin stated that NC signals indifference to a narcissist and indifference is the ultimate rejection of their self-appointed grandiosity. My first narcissist was 11 years older than me. He'd break my heart, abandon me and then reappear after many silent, agonizing months. I wondered why he always came back. Now I know. I'm an adoring woman whom a narcissist would perceive to be a devoted and addicted follower. However I'm a proud and quiet heartbreak...and I don't end up following as they anticipate. That's perplexing to a narcissist so Narc #1 had to come back and see if he could get me on the hook again to reaffirm his supreme awesomeness.

 

Sadly, I played that game with Narc #1 for 2 years. Narc #2 - if he ever resurfaces - won't be so lucky.

 

It gives me some satisfaction knowing that - like the narcissist who preceded him - the ego boost that accompanied xMM's rejection of a fun, passionate, adoring woman will eventually fade. He'll return to me in his idle thoughts, remember my charms, wonder where I am, what I'm doing. He'll re-idealize me when his life hits rocky patches and his narcissistic supply runs low. His intense personality disorder may not allow him to ever resurface in my life as Narc #1 did, but xMM will re-consume me in his thoughts. Doesn't matter either way...the real me, flesh and blood...is already long gone.

 

P.S. Thank you for recommending Sam Vaknin. He's brilliant.

Edited May 30, 2013 by SweetBella1

[SweetBella1]

Love yourself more then wasting time and energy on someone who deserves none of the above. Dedicate the time and energy on yourself and your husband, I am sure your husband would appreciate that.

 

That's my focus. However, to progress out of these dysfunctional patterns, I need to understand my motivations in engaging with xMM.

 

Analyzing the situation is definitely not a waste of time. Countless articles and books have been written on this subject precisely because people need to understand the pathology. Hopefully understanding xMM - and why I was drawn to someone so disordered - will help me move to a healthier psychological state.

 

My husband does appreciate me and all I've given him, and I am entirely grateful for him, too.

[SweetBella1]

You say you don't love the MM and yet you pine and suffer like any other OW in the forum that was madly in love.

 

Not madly in love. This behavior is a glimpse into my own disorder. I'm goal oriented and conditioned to tirelessly seek validation. When I can't achieve that validation, it distracts and frustrates me endlessly. Perhaps I possess some narcissistic tendencies as well. Hard to explain it but trust me, I know it's not love. I couldn't get xMM to validate me which translates into rejection. It opens old wounds and compounds the hurt into one cumulative agony. The result is pining and deflation. (I get over it eventually, it will usually take 3-4 months, judging by experience with Narc #1.)

 

But, you are correct, this is not love. Some people simply become addicted to the validation. True love is not like the addiction to the validation, however it may feel similar.

 

It's not an addiction to validation, it's a need for validation. My entire life from birth has revolved around attempting to achieve validation from emotionally unavailable sources. Those sources were my main emotional contacts and therefore I equated them with affection, whether they were positive influences or not.

 

True love does not require validation. A woman that does not require validation would not be attracted to a narcissist..

 

I've been very upfront about my (frustrating) need for validation. This is the primary reason why I'm analyzing my patterns...so that I can break them.

 

You meet the qualifications for narcissistic supply and that is why your H does not turn you on. Normal men are not attractive to you.

 

That is true. Ironically, at first my H was somewhat emotionally unavailable to me, so he fit my criteria. As we moved along in our relationship, he began to become more emotionally available and invested in our marriage. As he "came around", I distanced myself. I'm aware of this dynamic, and am actively working to change my perception of love and acceptance.

 

I am eternally grateful that I chose to marry a man who has turned out to be the opposite of my "normal" destructive dream guy. I love H dearly. Usually women are drawn to men who will continue to abuse them but somehow, something inside of me knew better and chose the right type of man. A loving, good man. I may be all kinds of messed up, but at least I did that right. I also gave my children an amazing father.

 

You are clever and smart. You know the drill and yet you fall for the narcissist. Why?

 

I answered this question in my post above: "I'm beginning to accept that he fulfilled a strong subconscious desire to seek validation from a fickle, emotionally unavailable source which is a familiar (read: comfortable) role for me. That push and pull emotional source is addictive for me, it's what I've known my whole life. Hot and cold, on-again off-again validation."

 

Don't underestimate how deep this pathology can be embedded in a person's psyche. I may be able to spout the knowledge and facts but that doesn't mean it will change any of my core perspectives or behaviors, long term. THAT is going to take a lot of time and a lot of analysis, which is what I'm doing. I owe it to myself and everyone in my life.

 

I rounded a corner in all of this yesterday. I'm feeling much more stable now, and everything is going to be okay. This all happened for a reason, I'm learning from it.

[SweetBella1]

Huh? These men are EMPTY inside, you are nothing but an experiment...lab rat to them. I hope self love and a healthy sense of esteem find you one day and take you out of this toxic cycle. You are giving him way too much thought and credit.

 

It's so tempting to generalize and paint all narcissists and other disordered individuals as linear caricatures of monsters. But they simply aren't one congealed mass of disorder that replicates identically from person to person.

 

They're human, they possess emotions, they feel, they can even love. The problem is they go about it entirely the wrong way. They frustrate themselves, they frustrate those who come into contact with them.

 

I am on my way to escaping this toxic cycle. The only way out is through understanding it.

[SweetBella1]

They do have reactions, angry emotions, but they completely lack empathy toward others.

 

According to the experts in the field, narcissists are definitely not "empty" inside. They're extremely sensitive and emotional individuals as it relates to themselves. The disorder is hinged on ultimate selfishness. They love how they want to love, they reject as they want to reject. They're so emotional that they can't keep straight up from sideways. That's why they have to possess ultimate control.

 

Work on yourself and why your self esteem is almost nil and why you seek empty validation from disordered individuals for self worth.

 

I'd think it's fairly obvious that I'm working on myself. I already know why my self esteem is "almost nil"...a lifetime of abuse which bent me in ways that 20 years of therapy hasn't been able to straighten. But I'm still trying...

 

Understanding Narcs is not necessary for you to heal and find a better path for yourself.

 

I disagree. Narcissists were my first abusers, my caretakers. I have Stockholm Syndrome with narcissists. There's a subconscious pull. They are my emotional nirvana. Being ignorant of how narcissists operate will do nothing but perpetuate my patterns. I have to understand them and understand myself.

[SweetBella1]

I also have been through Narcissistic abuse and find your painting them with flowers quite disturbing. However, many process life's circumstances differently. My advice to anyone is too run as fast as you can from a malignant narcissist. They are toxic, abusive, and have no care for anyone other then themselves. There are in my experience no if's and's or but's, unless it is your child. I wish to stay as far away from any type of emotional or physical abuse as possible after enduring narcissistic abuse. It or THEY do not interest me in the least. I hope the same for you one day.

 

I also wish to "stay as far away from any type of emotional or physical abuse as possible after enduring narcissistic abuse."

 

Please quote where I painted narcissists with flowers. I've been accurate in citing peer-reviewed research.

 

Apparently it bothers you to think that a narc isn't "empty" but it just isn't true. They're highly emotional and very troubled. Their emotions and "love" are warped, demented and ultimately selfish. Their disorder relegates them to permanent 'emotional misfit of society' (Sam Vaknin). None of this means I'm praising them. It just means I'm understanding them to their core, not just the surface...not just how they affected me.

 

Understanding narcs is the first step to understanding my emotional captors and freeing myself from the psychological hold. As you mentioned, we all process things differently and I feel I'm doing a good job working through this. There's my self esteem.

[SweetBella1]

AtheistScholar: "My healing came about through NC, constant research, brutally honest self analysis and finally, weeding out of myself any of his sick traits that wore off on me."

 

Exactly.

[SweetBella1]

You will never heal until you realize that they are indeed 'empty.' It may be you choose to be blind. I hope you find peace one day. BTW Sam is the only narcissist to have insight they are a narcissist, I call his BS, and find it funny he does not hold one degree toward anything he preaches or hold any for anything for that matter. I would not go to a foot doctor who has never taken an anatomy class before.

 

Too simplistic. Simply because we disagree doesn't mean that I'm "choosing to be blind". Narcissists are so sensitive and self-serving that they're pathological. You can monster-ize them into one huge ball of dysfunction all you want, and indeed they're awful to contend with, but they aren't exact replicas of each other. The disorder is on a continuum. Narcs aren't all "empty."

 

That being said, I hope to avoid all of them in the future. Even if that means I only know 17 people for the rest of my life. I know that I will find peace, thank you.

[SweetBella1]

And it does not bother me, was giving sound advice, but it is evident you do not wish to hear any advice that does not correspond with this love affair you have with Narcissism. The best advice you will ever receive is that you will never understand a narc, but can learn they are not worth your time and energy trying to do so. You can work on you without spending effort on them.

 

Suffering Stockholm Syndrome with a caretaker's pathology isn't the same thing as having a "love affair" with Narcissism. You are twisting my intentions and trying to wound me.

 

The bottom line is that I now possess more comprehension of narcissistic traits than ever before and it explains a LOT about my childhood and how I developed into who I am today. This will help me recognize and avoid narcissists much more effectively in the future.

 

It has been worth every moment of my time and energy.

 

Thanks for your advice. I do take everything into account, even if I don't always agree.

Edited May 30, 2013 by SweetBella1

[SweetBella1]

Sorry, but it was you who mentioned you have a problem with feeling the need for validation from many narcissistic men in your lifetime....hence my words 'love affair'. I hope for you and your husband you find an answer. I have used my childhood issues too strengthen me, not hold me back, and hope the same for you. You mentioned how sweet your husband is and what a great father he is, now that is a beautiful point to focus on, the narcissist not so much.

 

I've known two narcissistic men, not "many". I repeated the same pattern with both men, 15 years apart....that's when I saw the pattern and the similarity between them.

 

And yes, I do have a problem with needing validation which extends back through my life. Both of my parents are narcissists and my mother is also schizoid. I ended up in foster care; that's what happens when two emotionally disordered individuals marry and have a child. I spent my entire life trying to gain validation, it became my norm. I don't care to live that type of "normal" anymore so I'm struggling like hell to change my perspectives and patterns.

 

Having a love affair is a choice. While I never chose to have a "love affair" with narcissism, I did think that narcissist's validation equaled love. Unfortunately I knew it was fickle validation and they would eventually hurt me again. Like you, trials strengthen me and my revelations and insight are helping me grow out of a lifetime of dysfunction. So pleased to be breaking the cycle for my children. And yeah, my husband is great.

[Quiet Storm]

I do not believe narcs are empty. I think empty is a better fit for sociopaths.

 

I think they feel too much and feel too intensely, similar to a Borderline. They have issues regulating their own emotions. This causes them great anxiety, and they react by attempting to control everything. Everything they do is an attempt to cover their feelings of inadequacy.

 

I agree that they do not empathize with the feelings of others. However, the sociopath often must fake their own feelings AND fake empathy for others. NPD genuinely feels emotions for themselves, but not for others. When a person close to them dies, sociopaths feel nothing and fake the grief. NPD feels the grief intensely, but they are only feeling their own personal loss. They can't empathize with friend that loses their mom, but when it's their OWN mom, they feel it 100%.

 

I was once told you can tell the difference between a narc & sociopath by watching how they interact with animals. Sociopaths often have no connection at all to animals and are often mean or abusive to animals. Narcs often do love animals and feel a great sense of loss when pets die.

 

Regardless, NPD will make a horrible partner in a relationship.

 

SweetBella1, I do feel like you are very introspective. You are correct that understanding why you do what you do, often doesn't translate into changed behavior. It is often so engrained that it's automatic. You can be aware, but still feel helpless actual change the behavior. The awareness, however, can be very helpful in noticing red flags and keeping yourself away from people that have the potentional to harm you. When you feel that pull, you have to consciously tell yourself "this is not healthy, stay away". I feel like you are on the right path.

 

serenityandhearts, understanding NPD can help put things in perspective. My sister is Borderline, and understanding her disorder has really helped me cope with it & our history. Understanding the dynamics doesn't mean that you excuse the bad behavior. Knowledge is power.

 

For some people, all they need to know about NPD may be "stay away from them" and that's fine. But others are different. I keep my distance from my BPD sister and do not engage in her drama. Educating myself and understanding the disorder helped me to keep my boundaries strong, and not be sucked in again.

 

Understanding ourselves & our history, examining why we (and others) do what we do, does not mean we are stuck in the past. In fact, it can help many of us to move on.

[dichotomy]

Question. Your husband forgive you immediately? unconditionally? Is he enabling your tenancies and behavior to seek out this validation outside the marriage without loss?

[findingnemo]

A good thought (great husband) to encompass the next time a narcissist wishes to validate you in order to bed you. You are coming along. I dealt with a malignant narc with a full blown diagnosis, and he was empty. No soul, zero empathy, and only cared about narcissistic supply. Thank goodness I had great psychiatrists to educate and aid me on recovery, and not one therapy session was done in order to understand the narc, but to aide me on healing myself.

 

Congratulations on overcoming your issues with Narcs. Now if you will, please stop trying to force what worked for you on the OP. She is trying to understand her own situation and I'm sure that given her Herculean efforts, she will one day get there. Continue your healing and let her find hers.